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Old 2012-06-04, 02:10   Link #2321
Guido
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazryonh View Post
Yes, "keeping up appearances" is a strong cultural incentive in Japan. Yes, the "Princess Lover Solution" could work, though it could work better if the H-OVAs were better integrated into the story. For example, in episode 7 of the anime, there is a strikingly similar situation in the game's CGs that show an H-scene that happened there (and Nao's expression in the morning of the next episode strongly implies this). An H-OVA picking up there could be titled "N2.5" (meaning it's supposed to be played just after Nao's second episode but before her third).

I personally don't understand why seiyuus have to use pseudonyms for their H work. There's quite a lot of well-written eroge that involves voice work as serious and involved as any other "mainstream" production now, so why would segueing into that be looked down upon?

Still, I wonder if the person who proposed the idea for the YnS anime's branching structure was duly awarded for this kind of innovation. It certainly contributed to the high sales for this series in Japan.
Seriously, you need to read about the topics that the Japanese members around these forums contribute.

There was one case I read, as an example, in the past about a very famous seiyuu during her time. I forgot the seiyuu's name, but I do remember she formed part of the Neon Genesis Evangelion's main voice cast at the time.

When it was found that she also had done some roles in erotic H-Anime, she was terribly lambasted and there was a public outcry against her. It took about 10 years, quite more or less, so that public opinion could completely forget the whole incident. However, during all that time in between her career got both jeopardized and spiraled down.

Reason why seiyuus have need and use for pseudonyms to prevent incidents like that one from ever materializing.
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Old 2012-06-04, 03:44   Link #2322
hyl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guido View Post
Seriously, you need to read about the topics that the Japanese members around these forums contribute.

There was one case I read, as an example, in the past about a very famous seiyuu during her time. I forgot the seiyuu's name, but I do remember she formed part of the Neon Genesis Evangelion's main voice cast at the time.

When it was found that she also had done some roles in erotic H-Anime, she was terribly lambasted and there was a public outcry against her. It took about 10 years, quite more or less, so that public opinion could completely forget the whole incident. However, during all that time in between her career got both jeopardized and spiraled down.

Reason why seiyuus have need and use for pseudonyms to prevent incidents like that one from ever materializing.
The case of evangelion was slightly more severe though, because Miyamura Yuko starred in a porn movie (eventhough it was made before her debut in evangelion).
While on the subject of this, i can remember another more extreme incident of a seiyuu who never got any work anymore after she was found out that she starred in a porn movie : Ishihara Eriko. (because i was looking that up several years ago why she was replaced in animes and all ages VN's like Memories off Sorekara again)
Atleast Miyamura Yuko still got a few roles after that incident (although that scandal did tarnish her repution, so she hardly got any new roles)
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Old 2012-06-04, 19:51   Link #2323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guido View Post
There was one case I read, as an example, in the past about a very famous seiyuu during her time. I forgot the seiyuu's name, but I do remember she formed part of the Neon Genesis Evangelion's main voice cast at the time.

When it was found that she also had done some roles in erotic H-Anime, she was terribly lambasted and there was a public outcry against her. It took about 10 years, quite more or less, so that public opinion could completely forget the whole incident. However, during all that time in between her career got both jeopardized and spiraled down.
There's an interesting article about Yuko Miyamura's fall from grace here. And yet starlets like Paris Hilton can get catapulted into fame because of a sex tape.

Personally, I think this is one aspect that Japan needs to get dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st Century about, but that's neither here nor there.

Also, I think it's kind of funny how much the Japanese focus on image, when in fact the Japanese pornography industry is among the most prolific and extreme in the world (with its consumers mainly being domestic). Compared to the average Japanese AV title, Yosuga No Sora (with the possible exception of Sora's arc), seems positively wholesome and even educational. Don't look at me like that; all the heroines (with the possible exception of Sora, who may just be unhealthy and co-dependent obsession run riot) honestly fall in love with Haruka in their arcs, and everyone's honest about their feelings. No one plays games with anyone's heart. No one uses contraception, sure, but with the exception of Sora, all the heroines in their arcs seem quite content to be the mother of Haruka's children, and Haruka isn't one to play around either.

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Originally Posted by Guido View Post
Reason why seiyuus have need and use for pseudonyms to prevent incidents like that one from ever materializing.
The fact remains that no one's fooled. Anyone even passingly familiar with a seiyuu's work can recognize his/her voice in an eroge or the like. Yuu Asakawa may have used the pseudonym "Misaki Kamishiro" when she worked on the 18+ version of the Majikoi! game as Momoyo Kawakami, but it's still quite obviously her voice, for instance. Yuuko Gotou may have used the pseudonym "Shino Kujou" in the same title, but her character Yukie Mayuzumi is also quite transparently her pigeonhole, and the voice she uses for that role is also quite recognizable.

Back to the anime, I noticed that Yahiro from YnS and Nene from Kore Wa Zombie Desu Ka? share the basic body type and "attractive archetype" (basically the slovenly and lazy woman who still manages to look hot and well-endowed). Is there a Japanese term for that kind of character?
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Old 2012-06-04, 20:22   Link #2324
Marcus H.
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^ I think it's the onee-san archetype.
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Old 2012-06-06, 03:46   Link #2325
hyl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazryonh View Post

The fact remains that no one's fooled. Anyone even passingly familiar with a seiyuu's work can recognize his/her voice in an eroge or the like. Yuu Asakawa may have used the pseudonym "Misaki Kamishiro" when she worked on the 18+ version of the Majikoi! game as Momoyo Kawakami, but it's still quite obviously her voice, for instance. Yuuko Gotou may have used the pseudonym "Shino Kujou" in the same title, but her character Yukie Mayuzumi is also quite transparently her pigeonhole, and the voice she uses for that role is also quite recognizable.
While i agree that some are not fooled when it comes to seiyuu's with very distinguisable voices (like for example Asakawa Yuu, Shimizu Ai, Itou Shizuka, Gotou Yuuko, Mizuhashi Kaori, Kadowaki Mai), however i can't agree with you with the lesser known seiyuu's. Barely anyone would have heard Airi Sakuno from regular animes, so recognizing her as Hoshizaki Iria in eroge is not very likely unless you were somehow a fan of her.
But regardless of this, i mostly agree that it is to keep appearances. Not just for the seiyuu's but for their agencies as well. I don't think that any agency wants a reputation that their seiyuu's are associated with eroges.
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Old 2012-06-06, 13:15   Link #2326
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^Which just goes to show that in both western and eastern culture, sex is (still) a huge taboo. And that's odd, because the porn industry is both very old and very big in either part of the world.
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Old 2012-06-06, 21:24   Link #2327
Mazryonh
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Just as an example, here's a vid from Majikoi S where Momoyo sings "Happy Birthday" to the player. It's clearly Yuu Asakawa herself, no matter how many pseudonyms she might employ. A case like the veteran eroge seiyuu Ryouko Tanaka is a little less clear-cut; her versatility lets her play someone like Yahiro in YnS but still be able to pull off a high-pitched squeaky voice for a character like Hinata Kagura for H2O: Footprints in the Sand.

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^Which just goes to show that in both western and eastern culture, sex is (still) a huge taboo. And that's odd, because the porn industry is both very old and very big in either part of the world.
I don't know about that; aren't nude scenes fairly common in mainstream films in both Japanese and Western cinemas? No one castigated Kate Winslet for her nude scene in the landmark Titanic film, for instance. No one castigated the stars of Sex and the City for their constant nude scenes either. All things considered, making (censored) noises in eroge is much less involved than on-camera nude scenes, so why would anyone give seiyuus flak for it?

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Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
^ I think it's the onee-san archetype.
I don't think that quite covers it. Isn't the "onee-san" archetype just mean any older attractive woman? Nene and Yahiro are both shown to be lazy and slovenly, dressing in tank tops and shorts (like the stereotypical "lazy man"), and are both quite fond of beer. Indeed, a more famous character like Misato Katsuragi from the original Evangelion anime series dressed like this way back in the 1990s when she was at home from military work; there has to be a name for this archetype somewhere.
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Old 2012-06-06, 23:23   Link #2328
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Originally Posted by Mazryonh View Post
I don't know about that; aren't nude scenes fairly common in mainstream films in both Japanese and Western cinemas? No one castigated Kate Winslet for her nude scene in the landmark Titanic film, for instance. No one castigated the stars of Sex and the City for their constant nude scenes either. All things considered, making (censored) noises in eroge is much less involved than on-camera nude scenes, so why would anyone give seiyuus flak for it?
Well, I don't think it's about nudity; nudity has been a common feature of recognized, "high-class" art forever. I think it's simply the stigma of "working in the porn industry". This is even though the voice actors can make the same sorts of sounds in other anime/games (particularly the more suggestive ones) and it's okay. I once got into a bit of an argument with someone who was arguing that "the sounds of sex" were "sacred" and that voice actresses are essentially defiling themselves by taking on these roles; my argument was essentially that, to them, it's just acting like anything else, and it's not actually anything like sex (regardless of how it's depicted)... But, regardless of your personal feelings about it, the line is there in a lot of people's thinking, so the industry tries to play by these same rules.
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Old 2012-06-07, 23:04   Link #2329
Mazryonh
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Well, I don't think it's about nudity; nudity has been a common feature of recognized, "high-class" art forever. I think it's simply the stigma of "working in the porn industry". This is even though the voice actors can make the same sorts of sounds in other anime/games (particularly the more suggestive ones) and it's okay. I once got into a bit of an argument with someone who was arguing that "the sounds of sex" were "sacred" and that voice actresses are essentially defiling themselves by taking on these roles; my argument was essentially that, to them, it's just acting like anything else, and it's not actually anything like sex (regardless of how it's depicted)... But, regardless of your personal feelings about it, the line is there in a lot of people's thinking, so the industry tries to play by these same rules.
You don't have to tell me about that argument; I was there!

But even nudity in high-class art can still irk the wrong people who would rather there be fig leaves everywhere in museums with Classical Greek/Roman statues. First you tell the kids it's not okay to run around naked; then you have to tell them about how certain nude statues are considered great art.

Where the line is drawn about "what's in the porn industry or not" is a bit of a problem with eroges. Some (especially the nuki/yaruges) really are just anime-style pornography. However, I'm sure that if a company like Leaf/Aquaplus or Type-Moon didn't have fans that were screeching for HCGs and could still make a killing purely with all-ages visual novels, those companies would definitely take the opportunity and ditch their h-material.

The truth remains, however, that in fanservice anime series like Queen's Blade and its derivatives, or To Love-Ru, or Asobi ni Iku yo!, or Manyuu Hikenchou, etc., female seiyuus are paid to make suggestive noises quite like those in eroges, and no one gives them flak for it. At least the better eroges try to make the h-content work within a good narrative (like YnS did), and I think the seiyuus still deserve credit for that. Too bad about that prejudice, though . . .
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Old 2012-06-08, 04:56   Link #2330
hyl
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Originally Posted by Mazryonh View Post
Where the line is drawn about "what's in the porn industry or not" is a bit of a problem with eroges. Some (especially the nuki/yaruges) really are just anime-style pornography. However, I'm sure that if a company like Leaf/Aquaplus or Type-Moon didn't have fans that were screeching for HCGs and could still make a killing purely with all-ages visual novels, those companies would definitely take the opportunity and ditch their h-material.
As for type moon, i don't think they have done anything with H-content for quite a while now. Even their latest work Mahoutsukai no Yoru is an all ages game.
Most likely because they don't need to make eroge because of their popularity (similar to Circus with D.C. 3 and Key with Rewrite and Clannad)

edit: i forgot to mention that those 3 companies became more widely popular because their eroge attracted a wider audience because they had a succesfull eroge adaptation in the form of an all ages anime. Regardless how many fans think that tsukihime anime was horrid, it did sell over 12k dvd's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazryonh View Post
The truth remains, however, that in fanservice anime series like Queen's Blade and its derivatives, or To Love-Ru, or Asobi ni Iku yo!, or Manyuu Hikenchou, etc., female seiyuus are paid to make suggestive noises quite like those in eroges, and no one gives them flak for it. At least the better eroges try to make the h-content work within a good narrative (like YnS did), and I think the seiyuus still deserve credit for that. Too bad about that prejudice, though . . .
You seem to forget that eroges are an even more niche market than animes. While some of those fanservice animes are quite suggestive, there are no actual on screen sex scenes in it with the minor exception being YnS.

I don't see your point here.
You said it yourself that there is a prejudice for eroge and it's looked down, why would you want the seiyuu's to get more credit for something that is even less accepted than "otaku" anime.

Last edited by hyl; 2012-06-08 at 05:08.
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Old 2012-06-09, 09:17   Link #2331
johnr1o12
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Yosuga no Sora - Just A Little Discussion

Yosuga no Sora

Yosuga no Sora (ヨスガノソラ?, lit. "Sky of Connection") is a Japanese romance/drama adult visual novel developed by CUFFS ("Sphere"). The game was originally released for Windows PC on December 5, 2008.[1] It was adapted into a serialized manga and a TV anime series. A sequel/fan disk titled Haruka na Sora was released later on October 24, 2009 which contains new and expanded scenarios for several characters from the original game.(wikipedia.org)

Well basically I want to start the thread so that I can "Hear to voices of other anime lovers out there"(so to speak).

I want to know how you guys think of the game-turned anime...

I feel very ambivalent about the anime, since i actually never played it before, I like but something in my guts is disliking it so much.

I analyzed what i was feeling, and came to a conclusion. I think I am having fear of psychological animes. I think it's because of School Days( I don't hate the anime but the ending gave me shocker).

I wont tell you the story you can watch yourselves... because maybe some have not seen the anime and/or just like me have not played the game. Of course we dont wish to be spoilers here hehe...

Anyway please feel free to reply on the treahd... Arigatu Guzaimasu...
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Old 2012-06-09, 09:25   Link #2332
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It was not disgusting MINUS the Sora x Haru parts which is basically what the story is about. It's puke-worthy.
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Old 2012-06-09, 09:27   Link #2333
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There's already a thread on this.
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Old 2012-06-09, 10:50   Link #2334
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I enjoyed it, especially as someone who has very liberal moral standards towards incest. The omnibus approach it took as a VN adaptation was clever and I'd like to see it done more often with VN adaptations, especially longer ones.

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Old 2012-06-09, 21:23   Link #2335
Mazryonh
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As for Type-Moon, i don't think they have done anything with H-content for quite a while now. Even their latest work Mahoutsukai no Yoru is an all ages game. Most likely because they don't need to make eroge because of their popularity (similar to Circus with D.C. 3 and Key with Rewrite and Clannad)
Yeah, with Type-Moon's success in all-ages series like Canaan and the like, it's going to be harder to go back to h-material in the future for Type-Moon. With all the "jam it in" and "h-for-mana" memes floating round, it's clear that Type-Moon's writers aren't the best at writing h-material. There was potential there though; for Sakura, being with Shirou in that manner was the touching fulfillment of a long dream, especially given what happened to her in the Matou family (i.e., "I've suffered, but what I have now makes it all worth it.").

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edit: i forgot to mention that those 3 companies became more widely popular because their eroge attracted a wider audience because they had a succesfull eroge adaptation in the form of an all ages anime. Regardless how many fans think that Tsukihime anime was horrid, it did sell over 12k dvd's.
I'm amazed it sold that well. I personally bought the whole series along with the soundtracks myself, partly because I'm a fan of Hitomi Nabatame's (who played Arcueid) and Shizuka Itou's (who played Akiha) work, and because I greatly appreciated the way the music complemented the show. I think it's a pity that those two seiyuus didn't reprise their roles for Carnival Phantasm.

But to my knowledge, Leaf was a little more willing to write up eroge plotlines that made the h-elements a key part of the storyline in the past. Tenshi no Inai 12-Gatsu is probably the most famous title of this kind, but I'm sure there are others. One recent title by Leaf in which I think the storyline suffered for the lack of h-elements would be the PS3 version of White Album. Yayoi's route (outlined in the anime) touches upon sexual betrayal, and without that (because of the all-ages nature of the PS3 version) I believe the scenario loses a lot of its impact. It's in our genes to be angry at the prospect of sexual betrayal--sometimes even to the point of murder.

Of course, that wasn't the only way to incorporate h-elements into the story so that they became a key part. Touching on something like the "purity image" of singing idols could have worked with Yuki's, or Rina's, or Sayoko's routes, and the (unjustified) consequences that occur when raving otakus turn their backs on idols they consider "second-hand."

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Originally Posted by hyl View Post
You seem to forget that eroges are an even more niche market than animes. While some of those fanservice animes are quite suggestive, there are no actual on screen sex scenes in it with the minor exception being YnS.
Pardon me, it appears I fell victim to the screeching minority of otaku who buy up all the copies of a highly-anticipated eroge just for the "collectible accessories" then later sell the copies of the games themselves for a higher price, or who buy up figures and then later condensed milk over them, etc., who make it seem like eroges are big business but are just the most vocal minority among a modest amount of buyers (which is not helped given the massive amounts of software piracy in Japan). Still, with more intelligent storylines that worked the way I described, eroges might become more widely accepted. If something like that happened, animes like Amagami wouldn't be so afraid of YnS-levels of h-material.

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I don't see your point here.
You said it yourself that there is a prejudice for eroge and it's looked down, why would you want the seiyuu's to get more credit for something that is even less accepted than "otaku" anime.
It's because I believe the prejudice against the genre and the seiyuus within is unjustified and irrational. Credit should be given where credit is due.
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Old 2012-06-13, 21:09   Link #2336
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Although it's not Yosuga no Sora related, looks like the direction and animation staff is coming back to do the animé version of that series Dakara, H Dekinai or however the name is. I don't know if that brings any hope to how much ecchi they will show for that animé.
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Old 2012-06-21, 07:31   Link #2337
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Although it's not Yosuga no Sora related, looks like the direction and animation staff is coming back to do the animé version of that series Dakara, H Dekinai or however the name is. I don't know if that brings any hope to how much ecchi they will show for that animé.
Is this project by the same director as YnS?

I was hoping for another eroge adaptation so they could go for the same success, but I guess that will have to wait.
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Old 2012-06-25, 10:16   Link #2338
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http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...i-staff-listed you would be correct good user
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Old 2014-03-02, 12:18   Link #2339
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Yup, this series' sense of moral is messed up. Other than that, quite enjoyable.
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Old 2014-03-02, 14:16   Link #2340
Mazryonh
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Yup, this series' sense of moral is messed up. Other than that, quite enjoyable.
The Sora route (and the fact that Sora's presence and attitude towards Haruka is pretty taboo) got you to watch, right? Then it did its job. If you look at how well the Japanese received her, Sora was clearly the most popular character among the Japanese who bought the game and the anime discs.

I'm still a bit sore at how, despite the anime's bestselling status, we never got to see the routes for Kozue and Yahiro animated.
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