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Old 2012-06-24, 16:10   Link #81
Shining Celebi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 23 gundam fan View Post
good chapt but i just expected more of a bombshell this week. i noticed that many ppl dont talk about the fact that the coup was in many ways konohas fault, think about it . the village blamed the uchiha for the nine tails attack by madara. the uchiha as a clan had nothing to do with it, and yet they are blamed. i also sense that because madara is a uchiha its ok to blame the clan itself. what was the clan to do they saw how the village was treating them, and after they were put away so to speak, they saw the writing on the wall that sooner or later the village was comeing after them(esp after the nine tails attack .this is the ninja world we are talking about and the uchiha knew how the village deals with problems. were they to sit around and wait to be gutted, they had a right to defend themselves against a village that thought them guilty of a attack (nine tails) of which they were blameless.
You don't find the fact the Uchiha clan was missing the night of the kyuubi attack highly suspicious?

Itachi noted this in an earlier flashback - other than him and Sasuke, the clan was MIA that night.

I strongly suspect they were collaborating with Tobi/Madara, and he backstabbed them at the time of the massacre.
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Old 2012-06-25, 01:33   Link #82
octaviahawk
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Originally Posted by Shining Celebi View Post
You don't find the fact the Uchiha clan was missing the night of the kyuubi attack highly suspicious?

Itachi noted this in an earlier flashback - other than him and Sasuke, the clan was MIA that night.

I strongly suspect they were collaborating with Tobi/Madara, and he backstabbed them at the time of the massacre.

Though it's never been confirmed outright, I second that suspicion
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Old 2012-06-25, 04:39   Link #83
ronin myael
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ View Post
..he ripped out his own freakin eye and didn't even flinch x_x
that scene reminded me of deadman wonderland. eye-ripping --- ouch!
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Old 2012-06-25, 13:29   Link #84
23 gundam fan
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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
They were given the police force because they weren't trusted enough to be in the ANBU, that is around the hokage. Nobody spied on them. And having the police force is a nice gift anyway. The Uchiha had almost no problem with the village before the kyuubi-attack which was done by Tobi. The situation you describe was created by Tobi's and Danzou's actions.
And as i already wrote earlier there is no reason to give the Uchiha some fixed place in the leadership just because they are the Uchiha. Having priviledges like that based on which clan you are in would lead to the village breaking up. If you look at the hokage position it was never given based on what are the clan memberships, but based on merits. The elders were not Senju either. It's true that the current hokage is a Senju descendant, but she was never the first choice.


Why not, Orochimaru left the village and even had his own village (sound). These villages are not all ruled by emotional leaders, they can be quite rational when it comes to important decisions, and what village would not want the Uchiha clan to join their forces. The old tsuchikage even used the akatsuki when he needed them. There are also smaller villages that the Uchiha could have taken over. Or lets imagine the Uchiha forming an allince with the sand to crush Konoha, just like Orochimaru did. If we look at the story so far i can't remember any strong people being killed because they left the village. The village may have sent it's anbu or whatever hunter ninjas, but they usually simply die against really strong people. Konoha would have to send out an entire army to hunt down the Uchiha, but then there are enemy villages who would wait just for that.
wait a minute. the first hokage and madara together form konoha and change the world(because everyone followed that path) and you are sayin that is not a good reason to put the uchiha in a top position of leadership, come on man. and you do understand that orochimaru was a hunted ninja(s- ranked criminal) who wants to spend there life on the run if they can help it. i will admit the anbu doesnt look like a big deal but they are trained to hunt and kill. it makes more sense to a clan that feels and was wronged to start a coup in the end. when you think about it, to the uchiha no matter what side they picked(to leave the village or start a coup) either choice means thery are just as dead. but the coup makes more sense, down that path is a life much better than just wandering until the day you are taken out.
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Old 2012-06-25, 15:05   Link #85
Ero-Senn1n
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Originally Posted by 23 gundam fan View Post
wait a minute. the first hokage and madara together form konoha and change the world(because everyone followed that path) and you are sayin that is not a good reason to put the uchiha in a top position of
leadership, come on man.
Why would other clans join a village where there are two priviledged clans, and they can be only second rate citizens? For example why would the Hyuuga accept that? It was made clear that in Konoha leadership (hokage title, jounin title, etc.) is given based on merit. So your question should be why there wasn't ever an Uchiha hokage. But seeing how the 3rd and 4th were such great ninjas, it's easy to understand that there were no Senju and Uchiha after the founding senju brothers died. If it were not for Tobi and Danzou then the most probable 5th hokage would be Itachi if we assume that there was no such discrimination against the Uchiha. Even if there is discrimination it usually dies out as old people die out, for example in USA the new generations a not racist even if their parents didn't like black people, so now there can be a black president. In Konoha if there was discrimination it was done by the old generation, which are the elders like Danzou. But we also see in Danzou's final flashback that there was an Uchiha among them, so it's not clear if there was any discrimination before the Kyuubi-incident. Sure Tobi tries to talk about discrimination, but we know he hates Konoha so he will talk like that. So even if Danzou and the elders hated the Uchiha after they die out the new generation would easily elect Itachi to be the next hokage.
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Old 2012-06-26, 09:55   Link #86
Shay
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These are dangerous times in a world ruled by Ninja. Therefore, if the entire Uchiha clan could be taken out by one individual, then they do not deserve to live.

It is natural selection at its finest.
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Old 2012-06-26, 11:52   Link #87
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It may have been, if that man wasn't an Uchiha himself and if everyone didn't plan to die. Seriously, Itachi aside, who planned to have Sasuke kill him, there was Shisui and apparently Sasuke's parents...
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Old 2012-06-26, 13:47   Link #88
23 gundam fan
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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
Why would other clans join a village where there are two priviledged clans, and they can be only second rate citizens? For example why would the Hyuuga accept that? It was made clear that in Konoha leadership (hokage title, jounin title, etc.) is given based on merit. So your question should be why there wasn't ever an Uchiha hokage. But seeing how the 3rd and 4th were such great ninjas, it's easy to understand that there were no Senju and Uchiha after the founding senju brothers died. If it were not for Tobi and Danzou then the most probable 5th hokage would be Itachi if we assume that there was no such discrimination against the Uchiha. Even if there is discrimination it usually dies out as old people die out, for example in USA the new generations a not racist even if their parents didn't like black people, so now there can be a black president. In Konoha if there was discrimination it was done by the old generation, which are the elders like Danzou. But we also see in Danzou's final flashback that there was an Uchiha among them, so it's not clear if there was any discrimination before the Kyuubi-incident. Sure Tobi tries to talk about discrimination, but we know he hates Konoha so he will talk like that. So even if Danzou and the elders hated the Uchiha after they die out the new generation would easily elect Itachi to be the next hokage.
i see your pov but the siutation was at a breaking point by the time danzo sent itachi to take down the clan. the uchiha didnt have time to wait for the elder generation to die off, even if they did the leadership members were themselves part of that older group a.k.a danzo. also as far a the coup situation the uchiha were backed into it. how could they trust any deal they might have made with the villiage when one person in power who is not even the hokage(danzo) can make hugh decisions such as killing a clan and not be found out and stopped. if i were the uchiha that fact would scare the hell out of me. i would staged a coup to be honest with you. now i know the uchiha didnt know about the hit danzo put out on them, but as a reader of the manga i can get behind the uchiha on this.

Last edited by 23 gundam fan; 2012-06-26 at 13:58.
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Old 2012-06-26, 16:40   Link #89
Ero-Senn1n
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Originally Posted by 23 gundam fan View Post
i see your pov but the siutation was at a breaking point by the time danzo sent itachi to take down the clan. the uchiha didnt have time to wait for the elder generation to die off, even if they did the leadership members were themselves part of that older group a.k.a danzo. also as far a the coup situation the uchiha were backed into it. how could they trust any deal they might have made with the villiage when one person in power who is not even the hokage(danzo) can make hugh decisions such as killing a clan and not be found out and stopped. if i were the uchiha that fact would scare the hell out of me. i would staged a coup to be honest with you. now i know the uchiha didnt know about the hit danzo put out on them, but as a reader of the manga i can get behind the uchiha on this.
The problem with your reasoning is that the Uchiha never knew about the plan of killing them all. Itachi surely didn't tell them, and the elders didn't tell that to anybody else. In fact killing the Uchiha clan was a great secret, the manga tells us that if the world discovered what Konoha did to the Uchiha it would be very bad for the village. Kakashi tells to Naruto that he shouldn't talk about that, not even to his own comrades. So the Uchiha didn't know what was coming, since they didn't know that Itachi was spying on them, and so they didn't know that the elders knew of their secret plans. There was no public level discrimination of the Uchiha, this was a political matter that the common people didn't know about. So the Uchiha attacking the leaders of their own village would have made them the evil traitor clan in the eyes of common people and the whole world. That was also stated by Itachi, when he tells Naruto to not talk about it. So considering all this the Uchiha didn't have the right to attack the village leadership and cause a civil war.
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Old 2012-06-27, 00:17   Link #90
Black-Cat-Sama
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There have been a few things that stopped me from reading this manga in the past but I gave it a chance about three times now. I stopped back when Pain revived the village thanks to naruto's friendship abilities which was just utter crap to me and then again when the series jumped the shark:

(Naruto's hard work and determination character being overshadowed by the fact that he came from a father that planned almost everything for him and a mother that was also part of a gifted clan--completely going against everything he tried to prove to Neji in the Chuunin exam.)

But this chapter sealed the deal. I liked where it was going but Kishimoto can only really be said to have done one thing in 'Part 2' of Naruto, and that's make things so convenient so that Itachi doesn't seem like the bad guy that he was in part 1. Back then, it seemed he was going to just be a villian with his own motives, which would leave him in a gray area, but since then, it's like everything in the story happened in a way so that Itachi is seen in a light that wasn't there when he was first mentioned.

1-Sasuke is driven to revenge because of his brother's words and actions, but thanks to recent chapters, we find out that wasn't his intent at all? it was to make sasuke a better person?

2-Killed his friend to gain the mangekyo, but instead, his friend makes it only look like Itachi killed him?

3-I thought Sasuke and Itachi's father was the leader of the Uchiha Police/leader of their clan...so, if he wasn't planning the coup, who was? It just seemed so odd and annoying that Itachi's parents would just be accepting of the fact that he had to kill them, especially after all the things we saw of Itachi's father that showed how he felt about him after the little 'incident' where he beat up the three officers in front of Sasuke.

So much was just--changed, I dunno, but I've about had it. I ws really hoping that Itachi and Sasuke's meeting wouldn't end up like this but it did =/. Ah well, Naruto vs Tobi coming up.
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Old 2012-06-27, 00:22   Link #91
james0246
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Chapter 591 discussion thread has been opened. Please move all relevant discussions to the new thread.
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