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Old 2012-06-26, 19:55   Link #161
Kyuu
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: 42 10' N (Latitude) 87 33' W (Longitude)
Age: 35
Well, yea. By the time of the Industrial Age, I've conquered enough, such that I don't want to conquer anymore. Instead, I conduct modern wars to shape "global policy" according to my views.

For example. If I see a large country declare war on a weaker country, then I fight that large country to defend the weaker one. Sometimes, this is geared to offset the potential for a diplomatic victory.

In any case. I don't treat Civ as a game. Instead, I treat it as something to answer my question: "What would I do if I were in this position?"

And on the small wonders thing. I'd much rather prefer for N-number of buildings build in N-cities in order to be able to build them. Also, I understand the design on Civ 5 is geared to lessen the number of entities in a game -- as the greater number of game entities increase game slowdown.
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Old 2012-06-26, 21:39   Link #162
Skane
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 31
Barely got time to check out the expansion due to Diablo 3, but during the maintenance period last night, I started up a new game and wow, quite a different experience. Rolled random and got USA as my civilisation. Started a religion called Americana and basically started spreading religion before conquering lands.

Stacking the bonuses from religion with the other base bonuses is insane. I focused on industrial speed and my cities basically spit out units/buildings like candy. Also used religion to manipulate the other civilisations into becoming more accepting of my presence while I go slaughter the remaining heretics.

Hehe.
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Old 2012-06-27, 03:30   Link #163
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
It seems that each civilization has its own favorite religion. Boudicca for example always chose chritstianity in the games I played, and Suleiman adopted Islam, as it was expected.

This might be difficult to check since once a religion is taken the rest need to choose another, so if you put Harun and Suleiman together only one can take islam.

I should try a game with Japan and see if they choose shintoism.
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Old 2012-06-27, 04:07   Link #164
Jazzrat
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Manage to clear a game last night playing as the Celt. With their faith bonus, you can jump ahead with the bonuses you get from religion early on. After i bought all the structure and spread my religion enough, i just stockpile faith point to buy Great Engineers later on.

The spy system is nice to flip city states alliance and steal tech though, after Genghis Khan and Ramses stop trying to double team me, my tech quickly overshadowed rest of em except for Ramses. Wish they let you sabotage produce or incite riot like Civ 3 though, cause it would have been great to stop Ramses from sniping wonders off me.

Tech tree got a bit of balancing such as UN got push to the very end, Nuclear sub is very far down the line as well. There's 3 tier of air units as opposed to 2 which is great because i rely on blitzkrieg tactic. You don't need coal for railroad anymore so it's much easier to get your transport network. Cities are way more resilient than i remembered though, so without arty and a good number of bombers, taking em is going to be painful.

Overall, a decent expansion but they need to add more spy options and i m surprised there's no religious victory considering how much effort they sunk into it.
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Old 2012-06-27, 05:56   Link #165
Sheba
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Naval Base in the rectum of Pacific Ocean
Age: 34
I am playing Boddica and rolled with Europe map. I spawned right next to a river, two stone tiles and the east side of the riverside had nothing but forest. I picked the pantheon perk that gave +2 faith for each stone quarry and Shintoism because I could not find the equivalent for the celtic pantheon. Perks when I founded my religion, "+2 gold every 4 adepts", "Holy Warriors". Oh, and I play with raging barbs so my Picts can farm faith.

ADDEDUM: Austria is definitely a Kill On Sight civ. The way they married off all the city-states in one game I played as Nobunaga was insane.
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Old 2012-06-27, 06:28   Link #166
Paranoid Android
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Join Date: Nov 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Too bad you can't raze capitals.

Still, while I can understand why you want to eliminate the enemies' cities, it's really not a good idea to raze well developed cities. The main problem comes with the border expansion. No matter how fast you decide to build your cultural buildings, you can't really hope that a city founded in 1990 AD will get as much land as a city that expanded for 5000 years by the time you'll end the game.
Additionally if you play at Prince or higher, the AI will always expand its border faster, making conquest the only way to balance that out.
Yeah I'm alright with keeping capitals, all my offspring cities have at most 15~20-ish people and 3 cell radius border. Where my capital is usually 40-ish with 5 cell radius border.

In Civ5 vanilla, when you nuke a capital that's low on health, the game crashes. (A nuke on a near-death city instantly wipes it off the face of the map). They finally fixed that in G+K. The capital's hp goes down to 1 now.

On the other hand, I get a lot of vision issues in late game. For some reason none of my units can see anything, not even themselves. I can't select my units by left clicking them because they are under the clouds. I couldn't siege my enemy's capital at all because I can't see it even at point blank range and had to go for a science victory

Against an Emperor:

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/...E758CA567DB38/
http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/...A33BBFF32D1E9/
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/11...5B56D88664340/
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/11...C8E60C074F35F/

Last edited by Paranoid Android; 2012-06-27 at 08:43.
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Old 2012-06-27, 09:05   Link #167
Jan-Poo
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
On the other hand, I get a lot of vision issues in late game. For some reason none of my units can see anything, not even themselves. I can't select my units by left clicking them because they are under the clouds. I couldn't siege my enemy's capital at all because I can't see it even at point blank range and had to go for a science victory
Strange, that never happened to me... maybe it's because you play on larger maps? I rarely play on maps larger than standards. The game tends to become unmanageable to me even though my PC is pretty good.

Anyway I confirmed that civs have their favorite religions, I pitted against Ghandi, Harun, Darius, Wu ze tian and Nobunaga. I played a quick game going for cultural victory and I didn't bother creating a religion so I could see what the AI would choose. It all went according to predictions:

Darius chose Zoroastrianism
Wu ze Tian chose Taoism
Ghandi chose Induism
Harun al Rashid chose Islam

Nobunaga seemed to be uninterested in religions and was killed off quickly.

I managed to see what happens when you fail to get your own religion, well I was quickly converted to Taoism by my neighbour China. From that point onward the relationship was good even though we were bordering pretty tightly and she had a way stronger military. I just made the error of befriending Harun which later became Wu ze Tian enemy but I fixes it quickly later. After the friendship with Harun expired I denounced Ghandi who was denounced by Wu ze Tian and the turn later Wu ze Tian asked to befriend me.

I realized by this time that you can only make research agreements with states that you've made a declaration of friendship with. Pretty good! You won't get AI making research agreements with everyone anymore and you actually have an advantage now at befriending someone.
Friends do not seem to bully you as much as before, they don't ask for free stuff as much as before and they don't seem to get that much pissed if you refuse.

Anyway things with Wu ze Tian got even better when we both chose freedom as the ultimate policy. The choice between Freedom, Autocracy and Order have a very big impact on the diplomatic scenario as it should.


But going back to religion. Once I was converted to Taoism I got all the benefits of taoist followers without the founder benefits. I gained the ability to purchase mosques with faith points as it was one of the perks of Taoism. This was pretty good considering I was going for a cultural victory. I also gained the ability to create missionaries and inquisitors! I'm not really sure what exactly you gain from spreading a religion that you didn't found, but I played along. Inquisitors at least are useful if you don't want to get converted to a religion different than the one of you buddies. I used quite a few inquisitors to free my capital from zoroastrians and Induists.
I lost the ability to build profets though and converting other cities with just missionaries is a real pain.


Oh BTW, battleships getting a two range attack now are simply godly. With the +1 range upgrade (which isn't really hard to get) you can conquer any coastal city without suffering any damage. It's broken...

EDIT:
Okay I managed to find out where the informations about the civ's favorite religions are. Here is the list:

Code:
AMERICA
CHRISTIANITY

ARABIA
ISLAM

AZTEC
CHRISTIANITY

CHINA
TAOISM

EGYPT
ISLAM

ENGLAND
CHRISTIANITY

FRANCE
CHRISTIANITY

GERMANY
CHRISTIANITY

GREECE
CHRISTIANITY

INDIA
HINDUISM

IROQUOIS
CHRISTIANITY

JAPAN
SHINTO

OTTOMAN
ISLAM

PERSIA
ZOROASTRIANISM

ROME
CHRISTIANITY

RUSSIA
CHRISTIANITY

SIAM
BUDDHISM

SONGHAI
ISLAM

AUSTRIA
CHRISTIANITY

BYZANTIUM
CHRISTIANITY

CARTHAGE
ISLAM

CELTS
CHRISTIANITY

ETHIOPIA
CHRISTIANITY

HUNS
TENGRIISM

MAYA
CHRISTIANITY

NETHERLANDS
CHRISTIANITY

SWEDEN
CHRISTIANITY

SPAIN
CHRISTIANITY

MONGOL
TENGRIISM

INCA
CHRISTIANITY

POLYNESIA
CHRISTIANITY

DENMARK
CHRISTIANITY

KOREA
CONFUCIANISM

BABYLON
ISLAM
There is quite a huge competition for christianity
All the native american civs have christianity as their default religion. Most other religions have only one civ that favors them. There is none for Judaism.
I don't quite get why they gave taoism to china and confucianism to Korea. I mean... the very korean flag is based on taoists symbols...
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Last edited by Jan-Poo; 2012-06-27 at 10:51.
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Old 2012-06-27, 13:23   Link #168
Paranoid Android
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Join Date: Nov 2011
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The name of the religion has not much to do with what's in the religion though. I've beaten Emperor without getting my religion until 200 turn +. Some religions don't affect much at all. The worst is the ones that give the opponent strength and are really strong at spreading religion.

The vision glitch is commonly called 'Black Hole' amongst Civ 5 players.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showth...=396035&page=2

It's a game-breaking bug that seems to be randomly triggered. Basically anything under a black hole cannot be seen, selected or done anything to. If there's a city under a black hole, you cannot conquer it. You are forced to win via Cult/Diplo/Sci. Nukes also work but it wont' for capitals.
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Old 2012-06-27, 14:05   Link #169
Terrestrial Dream
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tesla Leicht Institute
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
I don't quite get why they gave taoism to china and confucianism to Korea. I mean... the very korean flag is based on taoists symbols...
Confucianism was rather dominant in Korea during Joseon era, and the King Sejong was the fourth king in Joseon dynasty. I do not believe Taoism had great influence in Joseon so it doesn't make sense for Korea to be Taoist.

Religion and improved ai seem to be nice, but I am still going to wait till a price goes down.
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Old 2012-07-03, 13:34   Link #170
Jan-Poo
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
I'm going to make a full report of a game I played with Civ V and its recent expansion.
I chose Byzanthium as my civilization, which is the one who gets most benefits from religion. I played on emperor difficulty, standard time, standard size, using the new tilted axis map (continent option). Since I'm not really a fan of city states, in my games I usually reduce their numbers and add a few more AIs until the numbers of civs and city states are equal. In this case I set 10 civs and 10 city states.
This is how the generated map looked like when I started

Spoiler for image:


As you can see the tilted axis map splits the world in a northern emisphere, which is completely glaciated, and a southern emisphere where the only fertile land is found. In this map the scarce availability of worthwhile soil to colonize is further reduced by a vast predominance of oceans.
My civ ended up in the bigger cluster where 80% of civs are gathered. France and Austria were practically isolated the whole game, but since there wasn't much fertile land in their cluster, they weren't really that advantaged. Plus they spent most of their time warring against each other without ever prevailing.

Anyway the peculiarity of tilted axis is that the northern emisphere, while being unapt for colonization is still extremily rich in resources such as oil, carbon, uranium and aluminium. It is therefore meant to be the stage of end game contentions.

Anyway with that many civs packed in the same place it was obvious from the start that wars would start early and expanding as fast as possible was mandatory, and this is a point that the AI rarely fails to understand.
I went for a mix of Tradition and Liberty in this game, trying to get the best bonuses for empire growth rather than military which can be compensated with skills.

After 72 turns this was the general situation:

Spoiler for image:


Egypt was clearly going for a one city cultural victory and it started building wonders very early.
The songhai and the celts tried to rush an expansion without caring about oustretching too much in other territories, this is a strategy that proved to be fatal for both.
I decided to get my first expansion close to my capital and out of harm's way. It turned out to be one of my best producing cities almost on par with my capital.
China and Japan went with my same strategy.
As for India and Inca, the reason they didn't expand is because they were both building armies to quickly conquer their neighbors. Needless to say it, Inca's target was none else but my capital...

But before that let me talk about the religious situation. The celts were obviously the first to found one, with their faith bonus nobody can beat them. Of course they chose christianity, but it didn't have much success... you'll soon learn why.
The second religion founded was induism by India and for a long while it was the predominant religion of the continent. They simply were too fast in gathering faith points and then they spread missionaries everywhere. Moreover they chose "religious texts" as one of the religious benefits that greatly enhanced the strength of their religion diffusion.
France and Austria chose Buddhism and Confucianism respectively. As France grew stronger and stronger so did Buddhism, and confucianism was relegated on Austria's first three cities.
As for me I managed to found judaism when there was but a single spot left open. It would have been disastrous if I missed it, since Byzanthium has absolutely no advantage if you don't found a religion.

Anyway the Inca declared war on me while I was still in the middle of improving and expanding my empire while trying to get a wonder or two before the other civs. They had about 8-9 military units while I had just three.
Now this is something that often happened to me, but it's not bad as you may think, in fact it is quite easy to quickly switch to military production and turn the tides completely. Archers are cheap and whether you want to defend or attack you want to have a lot of them. I sold some stuff to get enough money to buy two (you can sell open borders for 50 gold. You just need to find four civs willing to buy that and you get an archer unit) and I quickly switched production.
By taking advantage of slow terrain and targeting the few melee units I managed to destroy the incan army in a few turns and at that point they had barely two units while I was plenty.
And this is where I usually decide to make them pay for they hubris and knock at their capital's door with my recently created army. There are three good reasons for that:

1) They dared to try and wipe me out from the game, they must be punished.
2) They just wasted resources building an army that got completely destroyed, now they are defenseless and underdeveloped, it would be stupid not to take advantage of that.
3) Now I got an army in the early phase of the game and they are sucking the few gold resources that I have. I better make them go to war and make their sacrifice be worthwhile rather than simply destroy those in excess.

I'm not sure why people say you can't conquer in early eras. This is completely false. I conquer civs with archers and warriors all the time. The only problem is distance. If civs are spread far away from each other you'll have a hard time moving your slow units, but when civs are close enough there's absolutely no problem. And siege weapons are absolutely not mandatory. In this game for example I conquered not one but two cities with just archers and a few melee units. And this is emperor difficulty.

So after I repelled the Inca's army I moved my own south, trying to attack them from west where it was all plains and my units could move more freely. But as I was there I just noticed how completely defenseless the celts' expansion was. I checked with my military advisor and he confirmed that they barely had any unit. And so I thought: well why not?! The Inca can wait!
Conquering the celts' city was a joke, I soon learned why: the Indian at the very same time conquered their capital and so Boudicca was the first to bite the dust.

Spoiler for image:


Notice how the Inca quickly took advantage of the fact I was occupied elsewhere to expand. But it was kinda pointless since they went right in the mouth of others not really welcoming civs.
Anyway after my first conquest I had to wait a little to recover my strength and then I sent my army to the Inca's capital. This time it was a lot harder. Their capital was a lot stronger and with their archer they could almost kill one of my units in one turn. If it wasn't for a timely level up that let me heal my melee unit, this attempt would have probably failed, but lucky for me all went well and In the end even the Inca capitulated. The songhai took care of their pathetic expansion.

Spoiler for image:


At this point I was pretty satisfied about how the game was progressing. I had four cities, two of which capitals, enough luxuries and enough space around me. In addition all my enemies where on one side so I didn't need to worry about attacks from the east. My two cities in danger zone were completely surrounded by forests which made any attempt at invading me quite difficult.

But as one empire get stronger, nearbies civs get jeaolous and the response quickly came in the form of a joint attack from both Songhai and China.
This was one of the most critic phases of the game. They had huge armies compared to mine. Lucky for me China took its time before knocking at my door and by that time the Songhai already suffered too many losses from me which prompted Japan to attack them from the other side. At that point the songhai were no longer a problem but the chinese were

Spoiler for image:


The bastards took advantage of the fact I was rooked in my confines to sneak a settler just south of my city. Absolutely unexcusable!

Once I managed to assemble an army good enough for the task and once I repelled the bulk of their attackers I went on a punitive mission and I razed that bothersome expansion. At this point I went further and I razed even their northern expansion. I couldn't conquer those cities because I had hate issues, but I really wanted to conquer their capital which had a lot of wonders.

Spoiler for image:


As you can see the freed space on my south border was quickly taken by the songhai... but at least they settled further east which wasn't as bad as before. from this point onward the Songhai were converted to my religion and we've been good buddies ever since. I wasn't really happy with their cities just in the middle of my empire but as long as we were allies I didn't mind, and they never betrayed me. I think religion is what really did the magic here, I never experienced such long term friendhip in previous games. They'd always backstab me sooner or later, especially if they were warmongering civs like the songhai.

Anyway my dreams of conquest were suddenly crushed by an unexpected attack from India. Those bastards were lucky enough to conquer the most fertile land of the planet, they grew far and wide in a most ideal area and they became one of the strongest empire in the game. Their army was nothing to be trifled with and my southern city was on the point of being conquered. I've only survived because I managed to dispose of their melee units, but not with a few sacrifices.
I had to retreat from the Chinese borders of course after quickly signing a peace treaty.
You'd think that the Chinese at this point became more docile, right? Not a chance, they built an even greater army! So when I finally managed to end the war against India, I found myself with a China even stronger than before!
When they conquered Thebes (with all its wonders!), destroying the Egyptians, I knew I had to stop them before it was too late.

Spoiler for image:


This is the point of China's maximum expansion and splendor. If it wasn't for me, they'd probably win the game. This is also the Songhai's worst moment. I think it was only a matter of time before they were crushed by the combined attacks of India and China, but quite wisely they decided to be my allies.
Also notice how I founded three new cities at this point. I realized that I was too weak to conquer my neighbors and so I took advantage of the free space I created for my self in the first phases of the game.

Anyway I was trying to assemble an army to compete against China's huge force, but I didn't have to declare war on them... they attacked me first!
However... it turns out they decided to attack me just four turns before I finished my research on dynamite... and that means... artillery!

The poor Chinese got a very bad surprise! When I got four artilleries on their asses they soon realized what big mistake they made in attacking me!
But it was too late, their huge force could do nothing to stop me as I was bombarding them from afar. Their armies were wiped and their cities fell one by one. They should have really researched artillery too, but it was too late.

Of course once an empire gets low on military power, the neighbors tend to take advantage of that, and China quickly found itself against me, Songhai and Japan.
Now the poor guys quickly asked for peace. Seriously? The bastards tried to wipe me out of the planet not once but twice! And now they were asking me to make peace without offering a damn thing! Sure, why not? I would just let them off the hook so that they could rebuild an army and backstab me again! Like hell!

I decided to listen to their "peace" offer only after I conquered their capital and nearby cities, thus making sure they wouldn't bother me ever again!

So at this point I was pretty sure I had a won game. My empire was vast, strong, I had the highest number of cities both in my control and under religious influence.
What could go bad?
And then the awful news came: India just completed the apollo program!

I had really a bad memory about that. There was another game I played where everything seemed to go fine, except a civ that was quite far from me had an incredible rush in technological advancement and won the game before I could do anything to stop them.
I knew I couldn't let the same thing to happen again, I had to conquer India's capital and prevent them from achieving a scientific victory. The problem is that they were at least 5 technologies farther from me, and if I attacked them at that point I would've been slaughtered. There was only one thing that I could do, rush my technology output and get bombarders and aircrafts as quickly as I could. Lucky for me it was right the time when I had access to scientific laboratories, so I quickly made all my cities build them.
There was a long time of peace, here. Songhai were my faithful allies, Japan didn't dare to attack me, China was practically out of the game and India had no interest in starting a war against me when they could simply outtech me.

In the meantime I befriended France who was the strongest empire on the other continent. France, me and Songhai became a strong comintern alliance, as we all chose Order as our modern social policy. On the downside, Austria that was constantly at war with France became my enemy, but I couldn't care less.

In the meantime, other bad news: India completed the manhattan project! Oh man! I checked if they had access to uranium and unfortunately... they had. Not only India was extremely advantaged technologically, they were also filthly rich! They had bought practically all the city states of the planet, and they could have as well gone for a diplomatic victory too! As if that wasn't enough their low city empire and yet extemely populated granted them quite a boost in the cultural department!

But my scientists were doing a good job. I had tons of cities and they all had the best scientific buildings, my science output was stellar, I was catching up! I completed the manhattan project as well and uranium was not an issue.
This is the situation my empire and the indian empire were a few turns before the final war that decided the game started:

Spoiler for images:


You can see here just how strong the Indian capital was and how more technologically advanced they were compared to me. The area around Dheli is all fertile land, 34 citizens, 163 defense and four aircrafts! There is a fifth city they had which is hidden just below that solitary cloud, and that was also quite populated.

In comparison my land was a lot more unforgiving, some of my cities couldn't get past the 7 citizens due to heavy lack of food. Just think about what kind of shitty place the Inca started in with Cusco...

Anyway I was building two atomic bombs which I would use to weaken their capital and wipe those nasty aircrafts. In the meantime I almost finished to build a submarine which would complete my fleet. I was planning to go straight to Edinburg and conquer it first.

Also notice how I placed my artilleries on Songhai territory. From there I could destroy those nasty SAMs and India couldn't do a damn thing unless they also declared war on Songhai! Ha!

Anyway something prompted me to declare war before my army was properly prepared. India decided to attack Thebes!
That was really something that I couldn't overlook, Thebes was a mine of wonders and China had absolutely no way to stop an Indian invasion. But this was also a good news for me. I knew that the main bulk of the Indian's army was occupied on the opposite side of the map, I had to take advantage of that quickly!

And so I declared war. At that point I realized that India was most probably going to nuke me. It would have been extremely bad if the nuke destroyed all my aircrafts in one shot, so I decided to scatter them to the four corners of my empire and wait for the inevitable. I left just one on Dublin to provide cover from enemy aircrafts.
In the meantime my artilleries made short work of those sams, my fleet started bombarding Edinburg finding practically no resistance and my land units advanced.

It was going well, India's eastern front was really left on its own as the main force was occupied attacking Thebes. Edinburg was bound to fall. But then the expected happened, except it was a lot worse than what I expected.
India didn't just throw an atomic bomb at me... it used a freaking nuclear missile! Right on my capital!!!

It was devastating! The total populace dropped to seven, all nearby territories became polluted by the fallout.
But as much as it was bad for my capital, my army remained practically unscated. I only lost a single aircraft. I knew that India didn't have enough uranium to built two nuclear missiles, so at that point I could avenge the death of millions of citizens!

Ironically, my capital finished producing my first atomic bomb right the turn after it got nuked! If this isn't poetic justice...

Dheli got promptly bombed, causing its populace to drop and its health to drop to yellow. Also most of the units that were defending it got severely damaged and of the four aircraft it had, only a bomber somehow survived.
Edinburg fell. all my aircrafts were gathered and promoted. My artilleries got promoted to rocket artilleries. It was a lopsided battle!
Dheli couldn't recover from that strike and the territory around the city was just too open to be defended. When the main force from Thebes returned after conquering the city, it was too late. Dheli had fallen and I was about to conquer Vijayanagara too. No more scientific victory for you India!

In the meantime Japan struck a deadly attack against China, wiping it out and then against the weakened India. When I offered peace India promptely accepted and focused on repelling the japanese forces. It went well for them in the end, but at that point they were too severely weakened and they couldn't pose a threat against me anymore.

Spoiler for image:


I decided to go for a scientific victory myself, since going and conquer the other continent would have been too much of a bother and beside I wanted to honor my alliance with France.

My score at this point was almost twice as high as anyone else's, after conquering Dheli I even got the first place in population. Constantinople, my capital, quickly recovered by sending an army of workers to clean the land, by buying all the growth improving buildings that I could get and by setting the focus on growth.

The conquest of Dheli also net me several wonders that made my civ happiness skyrocket to 40. I could expand more, but I didn't really need to.

My upgraded army was extremely strong and no one in its sane mind would dare attack me at that point. It was a won game by then, I only needed to wait until my scientists completed the necessary researches.

The north became a theater of epic battles between Japan and Songhai, but I completely missed it. I didn't really need the resources and those cities rarely got past the 1 citizen, quite pathetic.
The same thing happened on the other continent between France and Austria, but as much as France's empire looks big, it was for the most par just a lot of snowy land.

Spoiler for image:


The race to victory concluded on the 428th turn, after the launch of the first interstellar starship in human's history. India was even winning against Japan due to their better developed army, but it was too late for them.
The Songhai expanded wherever they could, but they remained destined to be my vassal state to the end.
France and Austria never managed to kill each other completely, despite France's territorial advantage.
Four civilizations: Celts, Inca, China and Egypt coudn't stand the test of time. And I made sure to send my inquisitors to both Edinburgh and Dheli so to stomp out forever the holy cities of christianity and induism.

And with this, my story concludes.
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Old 2012-07-03, 14:15   Link #171
Archon_Wing
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Well, the game's certainly gotten a lot more interesting. Religion trolling is always fun.
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Old 2012-07-03, 14:25   Link #172
Xellos-_^
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i still think there should be a option for Atheist, with a bonus increase in Research.
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Old 2012-07-03, 15:06   Link #173
Kyuu
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Well, the game's certainly gotten a lot more interesting. Religion trolling is always fun.
Death to those of not my religion!

And I must say. This is getting a better feel of a more complete game. Managing "Happiness" has been much easier with a religion.
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Old 2012-07-03, 15:19   Link #174
Skane
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This might seem silly, but... religion makes it "complicated" for me to declare war on someone when my Civilization's religion passively converts them.

They're just so friendly, so... chummy... that I feel like a douchebag clicking the Declare War button. I prefer it when they're hurling insults at you or laughing manically as they declare war on you. Makes it sweeter to steamroll over them until they enter Afraid status and grovel for mercy.

Natch.
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Old 2012-07-03, 16:33   Link #175
Jan-Poo
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Well you don't have to steamroll over everyone! There's always someone who's bound to hate you anyway.

Honestly as an old Alpha Centauri fanatic what I always missed from Civ V was cooperative play with other factions. As the game was before there was simply no way to maintain a long standing friendship with another Civ, they'd hate you just for the mere fact you were going to win. Of course I understand that this makes sense, if you were playing against competitive human players they'd all gang on you as soon as your score became the highest, but as a simulation I prefer for the AI to act as a leader of a nation and not as a player of a videogame.

Now with the expansion, embassies and religion provide a substantial boost in your relationships and those are generally enough to avoid plummeting down into a spiral of unending hate and a chain reaction of denounciations.
Also I think that once you make friends they'll naturally choose the same modern social policies thus reinforcing the alliance.

I haven't played enough to conclude it's automatic, but so far it always happened and I'd be surprised if it was just a coincidence.

Anyway, Skane, if you really want civs to hate you, there are a lot of ways:

- Settle near them, and after that buy all the land that you can near their borders. They won't like it. Once they complain, tell them that you settle wherever you want.
- Do not exchance embassies, they improve your relationship.
- Bomb their borders. Once you'd need an artist for that, now you can only do it with generals.
- If they have city states they're protecting, bully them, try to steal their favors or conquer them.
- Get a spy in their capital and steal their technologies. If they're trying to build a wonder, beat them to it.
- Start wars with other civs. There must be someone that doesn't like you from start.
- Once you've started conquering, raze cities. Razing gets even more hate.
- Denounce them, for no reason. it's not like you need a reason to denounce people in Civ V. In Civ V denouncing just means that you don't like them and you want everyone else to know, so that they can like you for not liking what they don't like. If you don't want to denounce them directly, then find whom they're friends with and denounce them.
- If they denounced someone, try to befriend them. They'll hate you for liking what they don't like.

Lastly, but this is quite dangerous, try to get a weaker military than them. Never in a game the old roman saying "Si vis pacem para bellum" was more true. As soon as a bordering civilization thinks they can conquer you easily... they will! They might even have been your best friend until a second before, but hey, if there's an easy prey they'd go for it anyway, no hard feelings, it's just business! In the end conquering nearby civs and getting their land is one of the surest way to make your civ stronger and more powerful. You can't really blame them, you'd do the same. I know I did.


As a side note... I've practically never seen the afraid status from a civ. No matter how puny they are or how much technologically underdeveloped they are... they're never afraid of me. I've seen it only once in hours of gaming, and that was one of my first game on prince difficulty.
What's the trick to make them fear you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
i still think there should be a option for Atheist, with a bonus increase in Research.
Rather than that, I think there should be a secularism factor that gets stronger and stronger the more you create scientific buildings and the more scientific specialists you have, it should get even stronger for adopting rationalist policies and it should get mitigated by adopting piety policies. Secularism should cause the religious citizens of your cities to drop in number. In other words this should work as a small handicap to those civs that invest a lot in technological advancement. Considering how advantageous is teching in this game, and considering that religious benefits become less relevant the more you advance through the eras I think it would be a rational trade off.
You might get a benefit from non religious citizens as part of a late game rationalist social policy.
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Old 2012-07-03, 21:00   Link #176
Kyuu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo
Once you've started conquering, raze cities. Razing gets even more hate.
Despite my policy of razing... I end up keeping cities... because... of religious affiliation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo
Lastly, but this is quite dangerous, try to get a weaker military than them.
Ugh. This is one of many things I hate about the AI. They KNOW your military strength despite not doing any type of reconnaissance. Those bastards, they hax through the game.
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Old 2012-07-03, 21:48   Link #177
Jan-Poo
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Originally Posted by Kyuu View Post
Ugh. This is one of many things I hate about the AI. They KNOW your military strength despite not doing any type of reconnaissance. Those bastards, they hax through the game.
But you can "hax" the same way they do. Your military advisor will always know if a civ's army is stronger or weaker than yours. You just need to consult him.

Also the "demographic" panel will tell you who's got the strongest military, what's the average military strength and how is your placement in the military ladder.
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Old 2012-07-03, 21:58   Link #178
Kyuu
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
But you can "hax" the same way they do. Your military advisor will always know if a civ's army is stronger or weaker than yours. You just need to consult him.

Also the "demographic" panel will tell you who's got the strongest military, what's the average military strength and how is your placement in the military ladder.
Oh, I have a different way to "hax" in order to counterbalance the AI's advantages. It's called "save files". (Though, I'd prefer not to do so)

Demographics only tell you who's first and who's last - unless I happen to be missing something that enables viewing the whole spectrum.
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Old 2012-07-03, 23:52   Link #179
Skane
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Afraid status, and this is merely my own speculation, only happens when they don't hate you enough to act gung-ho about it even when they are in a vastly inferior position.

Most recently is my current game where I am playing Egypt and my South Korean neighbour declared war on me out of the blue. I had an apparently "smaller" army because I was so focused on rushing Wonders and research. What the AI apparently failed to realise, was that I was also filthy rich.

What made it even better was that the frontline was near the coast, so I could buy naval units too to blow their embarked units to pieces, and Egypt can mass produce Chariot Archers which don't require any Horses, making them very easy to reach the frontline from further cities.

Within 2 turns, I literally bought a bigger army and utterly crushed the South Korean army with zero casualties on my side. Then before I was about to counter-invade, South Korea came grovelling for peace and practically offered everything but their grandmother's knickers.

I took the offer and ever since then, South Korea regularly sends message along the lines of "Don't Kill Me, Bro" with the afraid status.

Cheers.
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Old 2012-07-04, 06:42   Link #180
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They also have no concept of military strength. I was playing on Immortal and Hiawatha called my army puny. I had 2 max-level artillery and a max-level scout gatling gun + 4 great generals (turned 3 into citadels). His 30-some out-dated units just melted when they attacked me. He continued to call my army puny after begging for a peace treaty.

The only AI thing the looks at unit count.
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