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Old 2012-06-28, 17:36   Link #22261
aohige
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Join Date: Jul 2006
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Malkuth, you do realize, BECAUSE the human race is a human race, and not the race of Saints, your proposal will not bring about actual utopia.
Instead, your "ideas" would do nothing but bring us back to the dark ages of authoritarian rule and cast of massive division in standard of living.

You may consider this current era hell, but your alternative would bring true hell back on Earth.

Private innovations will instead be held in secrecy with no laws to protect them.
Research that requires massive amount of R&D will not be funded by private entites, since there will be no return from it, and only the government would have the capability of funding such R&D. The world's private progress will come to a halt, and humanity will delve back into the dark ages of the past.

Some paradise.
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Old 2012-06-28, 17:54   Link #22262
Malkuth
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@aohige: Interesting... you perceive the entirety of human history minus the last century or so as science fiction

Also I don't assume humans to be saints, but also not demons that their only objective in life is to see other humans being miserable, like you do. All corporations are not evil, all governments are not totalitarian, and a lot of humans do not live their lives with the sole objective of acquiring material wealth.

@Ahn_Mihn: First of all, like aohige, you also ignore the fact that technology and innovation thrived before patents and copyright... even without the motivation of money or support of the state.

For the alternative to the current decadence caused by those two ends is to limit both of them to actual people, stop reselling, renting, licensing, etc. After half a century of commercialism, I obviously don't expect every human to act selflessly, but at least it will minimize the need for humans whose only goal is to legally steal and cheat.

Also many medicine, surgery, and other practices developed outside the patent system and had greater impact to human welfare and lifespan than the multimillion research currently funded. And don't forget that any policy, law, ideology, etc. has as an objective the benefit of the many. Patents and copyright by nature as either means or ends try and succeed in achieving exactly the opposite.

You also worry about that without patents, there will be no incentive for innovation and research. Leaving aside the thousands of years of human history that you conveniently choose to ignore, as well as the fact you're labeling an exception every contemporary example I brought up; the process is rather simple. With patents and copyright not being resealable, each individual will be sought after to work with and not for the investor, gaining exactly what he deserves, and the investor will be forced into a more productive role because he will need the person. Without the burden of the whole law altogether, investors will be forced to fund research either by institutions or individuals as well as employ the personnel that can actually produce and work with the now "secret" patents, instead bloat corporation with unproductive leeches that their only job is to lie and manipulate.
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Old 2012-06-28, 17:56   Link #22263
aohige
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No, I don't.
You obviously did not understand what I said, becuase it's quite the opposite.

I'm saying, science fiction, such as STAR TREK (do you even know what that is?) is unrealistic.
Instead, the past human history, is REALITY.

You seriously think we were better off in standard of living centuries ago?
You'd RATHER have those dark ages back? YOU THINK WE LIVED IN UTOPIA?

*mind is boggled*

At least the Bible crazies think Garden of Adam and Eve was in ancient times, not the middle ages. This is worse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
@Ahn_Mihn: First of all, like aohige, you also ignore the fact that technology and innovation thrived before patents and copyright... even without the motivation of money or support of the state.
False. You simply do not know human history.
You think Romans lived in utopia? That their knowlege was NOT controlled by the states? You think the technologies developed by guilds were ideal? That they shared their knowledge like some kind of merciful saints?
Seriously? You really believe this? That human race were some sort of kind, gentle entities that shared their wealth and knowlege with everyone?

Go study human history, and not some fantasy novels, and come back to us.
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Old 2012-06-28, 18:06   Link #22264
Malkuth
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I rest my case aohige, you know everything. At least try like Ahn_Mihn you can try to write ONE argument, instead of your generalizations about how knowledgeable you are.
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Old 2012-06-28, 18:09   Link #22265
Anh_Minh
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What Aohige said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
as well as the fact you're labeling an exception every contemporary example I brought up;
That's because you only brought up one: software.

And truthfully, I'm not sure it's even an exception. Without patents and copyright, the amount of man hours poured into the development of new stuff may well fall.
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Old 2012-06-28, 18:32   Link #22266
aohige
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
I rest my case aohige, you know everything. At least try like Ahn_Mihn you can try to write ONE argument, instead of your generalizations about how knowledgeable you are.
You're the one that said I'm claiming human history is sci-fi.

Look, we all agree that current society is not ideal.
But stop and think about what you're claiming.. Going back to even less ideal days is not the answer. You know this, right?
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Old 2012-06-28, 18:37   Link #22267
Malkuth
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Changing one law, does not rewind human evolution, unless of course you believe that this one law is the sole reason for human progress.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
That's because you only brought up one: software.
If you ignore music, films, smartphones, the internet... yeah only software remains

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
And truthfully, I'm not sure it's even an exception. Without patents and copyright, the amount of man hours poured into the development of new stuff may well fall.
I suggest that you see how the linux kernel development process works, since I can not go into any details about what we did in a company I worked to avoid the wasted man-hours of archaic software development relying on the secrecy promoted by copyright and patents, and let's not forget that copyleft software development not only produces high quality software, it also finds us the developers good jobs, helps students do something productive during their studies, and generates a shit-load of money in several ways to companies of all sizes not only the few oligarchies that have the funds to abuse patents

What seems unintuitive to mainstream practices is not by default dangerous and risky... it can very well be effective and ground-breaking. Radical solutions (abolish patents) can be better than conservatives ones (stop reselling them) and both certainly better than not solving a problem (keep patents as are).

Last edited by Malkuth; 2012-06-28 at 18:51.
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Old 2012-06-28, 18:48   Link #22268
SeijiSensei
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I suggest if you want to pursue a lengthy discussion of copyright and patent policy you do so in a different thread. I offer this one as a candidate, or you could start a new one in General Chat.
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Old 2012-06-28, 18:49   Link #22269
aohige
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I'm pretttty sure it takes way more than one law for destruction of patents and universal collection of knowledge.
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Old 2012-06-28, 18:56   Link #22270
Malkuth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
I'm pretttty sure it takes way more than one law for destruction of patents and universal collection of knowledge.
Cool, that's a good point to start arguing about your opinion.

Let now ask, not allowing individuals and companies to buy and sell patents will bring about the armageddon you implied earlier?

Is copyleft promoting at least equally innovation?

Historically speaking having patented typography would make it more widespread, efficient, and so on?
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Old 2012-06-29, 01:04   Link #22271
monir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
I suggest if you want to pursue a lengthy discussion of copyright and patent policy you do so in a different thread. I offer this one as a candidate, or you could start a new one in General Chat.
I've gone ahead and copied 23 posts from this thread and merged them with the thread mentioned in SeijiSensei's post. Since this is an interesting discussion that requires a topic of its own, please direct further discussion in that thread. I'll post the link one more time:

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=110026
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Old 2012-06-29, 03:22   Link #22272
AnimeFan188
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Megaupload Bombshell: Judge Rules Police Anti-Piracy Raids Illegal:

"The American government’s bid to extradite copyright infringement king Kim Dotcom
to the United States was dealt a body blow Thursday, when a New Zealand High
Court judge ruled that the raids on Doctom’s home earlier this year were “illegal.”
The decision may doom the entire prosecution of the founder of the file-sharing site
Megaupload; New Zealand authorities are appealing."

See:

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/201...aupload-raids/
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Old 2012-06-29, 04:00   Link #22273
ganbaru
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JPMorgan likely to post $4 billion to $6 billion trade loss
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...85R1HZ20120628
( 2 to 3 time what was announced before)

United Technologies sent military copter tech to China
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...85S07J20120629
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Old 2012-06-29, 04:23   Link #22274
SaintessHeart
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City Harvest founder Kong Hee charged in court for alleged misuse of church funds

City Harvest stands by disgraced pastor

It is called City Harvest for a reason - they harvest the city, wealth, people, minds and all.

Although I must admit that the girls there are pretty and liberal with their "private entrances....."
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Old 2012-06-29, 04:34   Link #22275
Ascaloth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Although I must admit that the girls there are pretty and liberal with their "private entrances....."
From personal experience?

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Old 2012-06-29, 04:44   Link #22276
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
From personal experience?

I used to have friends who "joined" for the girls. They stuck to listing their own parents' religion on job application forms.

Have no idea how they manage to get the girls to go all over them though, but they are either damn acerbic or the girls are just plain stupid.

Maybe they have pretty girls amongst their groups to harvest our seed?!?!?!?
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2012-06-29, 19:23   Link #22277
ganbaru
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Congress passes student loans, highway jobs bill
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...06-29-19-02-38
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Old 2012-06-29, 22:00   Link #22278
flying ^
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Genesis 6:2-4 .....

And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they [were] fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also [is] flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. There were giants (NEPHILIM) in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown.


http://naturalsociety.com/worlds-fir...#ixzz1zDj8Cgcw
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Old 2012-06-29, 22:25   Link #22279
mangamuscle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flying ^ View Post
This will be news worthy when we can modify DNA (not just blindly mash together three or more parents) to modify certain traits and maybe even add (or re-add) abilities.
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Old 2012-06-29, 22:50   Link #22280
Ridwan
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1930s Japan in Israel : http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/fea...854285479.html
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