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Old 2012-06-28, 09:33   Link #81
Ero-Senn1n
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Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
There is though : he's too strong compared to what he's allowed to do which make the whole thing a bit ridiculous.
If the guy was slaughtering the Kage along with thousands of fodder left and right, razing villages and playing jump rope with Tsunade's small intestine then all this power would have a point but as it is, he's showing off new high of power every chapter for nothing.
I think it's not for nothing. With his first big move he practically killed the whole army that was present. Only the kages and a few who were around the kages have survived. And then he both lectures the kages and defeats them, so the main purpose of all this in my opinion was to use the army and the kages as a measuring stick for Madara's power. And also to introduce his character. Because Kishi with this "war" has run out of villains that are good enough to be the villains of the next arc, since both Kabuto and Tobi have failed and also shown us their special abilities. And as usual in such shonen manga, the next arc will have to have stronger enemies. Madara is such an enemy. My expectation was that Tobi and Madara will somehow merge (i expected Tobi to bring back Madara with either Edo-Tensei or his rinnegan), since Madara's character is too boring to be a final villain and Tobi is too weak to be it.
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Old 2012-06-28, 11:40   Link #82
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Originally Posted by Ulquiorra View Post
If that is Kishi's answer to the Konoha 11 development for the war, then he failed miserably. A fat kid no one likes crying and being pushed to act like a ninja; so he doesn't get his friends killed due to his own incompetence. Mostly forgettable. And doesn't make up for the fact that he ignored the rest of them, who are much better characters than Choji.
I have a feeling we'll get a lot more of the Konoha 11 in the anime. Mark my words. I know that anime team likes to kill time... Well, this would be a perfect way to do it, and if they do it well, we might actually LIKE it *sobs*

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I'm still waiting to see the Naruto and Sasuke fusion dance, creating Sasuto, the ultimate ninja, or would it be Naruke?
*dies of laughter, than gets reincarnated in edo tensei, then breaks the summoning contract to edo tensei, so that she can laugh for all eternity as a hax'd zombie*
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Old 2012-06-28, 13:02   Link #83
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oh madara ... just how much of a badass can he be. but i love it, i am reading many posts about how sasuke should not fight and take down madara. but i think that a uchiha should be the one to take him down, and with itachi gone well who the hell else is going to do it. i have always believed that before sasuke fights naruto, sasuke needs a big time fight against a super powerful ninja so that there is no doubt in the fans minds and the characters mind that these two stand atop the ninja world hands down. no one has a problem with the super saiyan powers naruto has, but the haters get bend out of shape at such powers for sasuke. and thats the bottow line of it.
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Old 2012-06-28, 13:50   Link #84
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At least we got to see the 5 kages taking a good beating. They were too arrogant for my taste, they just learned what's their place. But Kishimoto is doing things the easy way again, by having the bad guys change things instead of Naruto, then Naruto just beats some bad guy and takes the leadership of the completely beaten down ninja world. Naruto didn't have to confront Danzou, as things are going now he probably won't have to confront the kages about forgetting what Sasuke did in the past and let him come back.

Since Tsunade and Gaara have plot shield ( and i think the mizukage has also plot shield because she's young and sexy and is not yet married ) i wonder how will Madara be removed from that place. It might be the usual stupid solution: for some reason Madara decides that it's not worth killing them and leaves
Tobi should not be aware of the situation, neither Sasuke, Kabuto is in a coma-like state. Or maybe Tobi in a desperate situation uses the kyuubi-chakra that he captured earlier, together with the 8-tails chakra captured by Sasuke and the other 7 types of chakra he could do a minor Moon's eye jutsu and that would capture Madara's attantion and he would just rush to Tobi's place and thus the kages survive. Kabuto already hinted that Tobi is probably not loyal to Madara, which means if Madara notices that Tobi wants to take his place then he would be very angry at Tobi.
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Old 2012-06-28, 15:58   Link #85
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Yes, if I were to tell one ridiculous thing, it would be what you said.
The whole showing off Madara's power without even killing one of the Kages is a bit pointless.

In fact you are right, (though I still think his state of being extremely powerfull is okay, but) the outcome of his powerfullness is not equivalent to his power. There should be rampage going, instead of fooling around.

I Also agree with those who think that there should be more deaths of the good guys. It is war we are talking about.
I wouldn't mind if Madara would have already taken down at least two (Hokage and Tsuchikage), left the rest beaten up and to head toward Tobi and Naruto.
It's not so much the lack of death, dread and sense of impending doom though it is severely lacking, it's that all those mighty powers are pointless.
Madara at half this power would still roll on them as if they weren't there, if he really wanted to he could have ended this war in less than 10s. But all he does is showing off new power that ultimately do nothing. Next chapter Madara could cut the planet in half and stick it back together and the 5 Kage would still be standing there doing nothing worth mentioning except whining about not giving up their spirit.
I find that dull and boring.
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Old 2012-06-28, 16:06   Link #86
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Originally Posted by 23 gundam fan View Post
oh madara ... just how much of a badass can he be. but i love it, i am reading many posts about how sasuke should not fight and take down madara. but i think that a uchiha should be the one to take him down, and with itachi gone well who the hell else is going to do it. i have always believed that before sasuke fights naruto, sasuke needs a big time fight against a super powerful ninja so that there is no doubt in the fans minds and the characters mind that these two stand atop the ninja world hands down. no one has a problem with the super saiyan powers naruto has, but the haters get bend out of shape at such powers for sasuke. and thats the bottow line of it.
Well, that's just how the group-think/hive-mind of the forum works :/

Its "cool" to bash Sasuke(as well as the author, "kishi" they love to say) no matter what he does or what happens, and Naruto can never get enough powers. It seems that no matter how many times inconsistencies and double-standards are pointed out from this mindset, the hive-mind will win out, at least for the most part. I even find sometimes defending Sasuke in some situation (no matter how warranted it may be) will earn me neg-reps, and apparently positive posts for Naruto are inversely proportionate. Unfortunately, thats just the way it is here.
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Old 2012-06-29, 00:38   Link #87
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Old 2012-06-29, 04:19   Link #88
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I definitely do not want to start another sasuke vs naruto.. they both are haxed. sasuke has not reached that lvl of hax yet, but I take Madara as indication of his potential.

my main issue with all of this is these powers the sharingran is granting. we've all be told from day one that the kyuubi was source of almost infinite chakra... the way naruto gets haxed is believable imo and simple, just bigger rensengans(to the point where he blows up mountains)

It is really the sharingran I don't get. I mean it is an Ocular power...I would have been ok with huge power ups that involves eyesight..
If they told me that ultimate sharingran allows user to see infinite actions and outcomes and pick most efficient outcome in a matter of nanoseconds, it would seem more believable,

Edit: so my little rant actually has nothing to do with the chapter... just a previous post mad me remember that I wanted share these thoughts.
prob even without sharingran Madara would still be ridiculously overpowered
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Old 2012-06-29, 11:20   Link #89
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I definitely do not want to start another sasuke vs naruto.. they both are haxed. sasuke has not reached that lvl of hax yet, but I take Madara as indication of his potential.
lol, and the sage of six paths is suggested as Naruto's potential. What's your point?

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my main issue with all of this is these powers the sharingran is granting. we've all be told from day one that the kyuubi was source of almost infinite chakra... the way naruto gets haxed is believable imo and simple, just bigger rensengans(to the point where he blows up mountains)
Except of course the kyuubi doesn't just allow for bigger rasengans, it does a great deal more, and allowed him to accomplish some amazing things. Don't try to trivialize his powers and play a violin, it just sounds silly. Especially after what we saw him do last time he was on camera.
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Old 2012-06-29, 13:41   Link #90
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Couple comments from reading the first couple pages of this thread:

1) Tsunade was coma'd so that we could get progression in the 5kage summit arc (how lame would that have been without danzo?). And she was needed for the war arc so that she can explain some of the background history of what's going on... Moving forward she is prob gonna retire and end up an actual "granny" to naruto (you don't have to die to pass on the hokage title).

2) as someone mentioned a week or 2 ago... Sasuke is the only "good guy" to know how to release edo tensei (since he was there when itachi made kabuto release it).
I think he is "the only one who can save the kage" (naruto is busy with juubi master tobi) AND if you subscribe to the idea that Sasuke and naruto will live happily ever after... Saving the 5 kage is prettttty much the best way for sasuke to "redeem himself"
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Old 2012-06-29, 14:34   Link #91
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Originally Posted by Hanzoman View Post
lol, and the sage of six paths is suggested as Naruto's potential. What's your point?
In my opinion I think the sage is more of an indication of the combine powers of naruto and sasuke (combined brothers of the two descendants) Naruto prob only reflects him in ideology.

People seem to think I'm this huge naruto fanboy...etc, don't get me wrong, as awesome/hax naruto has become I'm not too happy about the scale of these new powerups they have escalated too quickly imo, wich for me signals the immanent end of the manga, i mean just how much more powerful can they become? (then again I wonder how many people predicted that little goku would be capable of blowing planets....)

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Originally Posted by Hanzoman View Post
Except of course the kyuubi doesn't just allow for bigger rasengans, it does a great deal more, and allowed him to accomplish some amazing things. Don't try to trivialize his powers and play a violin, it just sounds silly. Especially after what we saw him do last time he was on camera.
I think all we have seen from naruto+kyuubi are pretty simple, and all related to infinite chakra, chakra enhances his physical abilities.. ie Durability, speed, Healing, strengh. this has been so from day one, with each new lvl of kyuubi chakra usage naruto base stats are simply upgraded. and bijuu dama has been introduced since Rescue rescue sasuke II arc.
to be honest sage mode feels more inexplicable to me. and harder to accept.
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Old 2012-06-29, 23:58   Link #92
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no one has a problem with the super saiyan powers naruto has
I do, huge problems in fact.

Anyway, this chapter was pretty good. Madara staying came as a big surprise, and right now, I don't see anyone actually defeating him besides Sasuke. The Kages seem out of ideas and strength and their enemy is just now starting to get serious. Naruto is having his own fight, of course.

Theoretically, there are other options to get rid of Madara. Kakashi could warp him away, but Kishimoto surely won't allow him that glory. Kabuto may have a change of heart now and could summon other strong ninjas from their grave or those who were just now resealed into death, like Itachi, but that would be sort of anti-climatic. Also, he would need dead bodies, but I suppose there are enough of those lying around on the battlefield.

Now that Itachi undid the Edo Tensei, I am starting to wonder why we haven't seen Jiraiya in this war, though. Kishimoto still must have plans for this character. We have not seen him being used as a path of pain, although it would have been an obvious choice, and we haven't seen him in this war, even though there were countless other pointless revivals and encounters. Why won't Kishimoto bring Jiraiya back from the grave, when it's such an obvious benefitial storytelling method? It's much more benefitial to the story than bringing back Zabuza or inventing totally new characters like the silver and gold brothers, just to kill them off again. I'm nost saying that Jiraiya will come back from the dead and defeat Madara, though, of course. But there must be a reason behind this.
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Old 2012-06-30, 05:17   Link #93
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I do, huge problems in fact.
What did you expect from an action shonen manga that is like DB/DBZ ?
It's all about powerups and fights, that's what most of the readers wants when reading these types of manga. As for how it is done, i think it's very plot driven, that is the author wants big cliffhangers at the end of chapters and also a lot of unexpected elements, and because of that these powerups and battles are often illogical. There's simply no other way to do it. For example right now the plot required that Madara stays in the living world az an ultimate zombie monster, so the author just invented some excuse that Madara could stay. It's not too farfetched since it was already stated by Itachi that the jutsu's only weakness is that a zombie might break free of it, that already happened with Itachi, and now with Madara. I expected that Tobi will bring back Madara, but now i don't care, because this way the plot may be more interesting. For example we can now make guesses how will kages that have plot shield (Tsunade, Gaara, mizukage) survive the current situation, that makes the manga more interesting in my opinion.
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Old 2012-06-30, 05:59   Link #94
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Let me get that straight. You are saying that, in most cases, powerups can only be illogical because the author wants to have surprising elements in his story? First of all, I don't agree with that and secondly did I at no point say that my problem with all those powerups involves logic in any way. I didn't even talk about powerUPS to be precise. I'm not really sure I know why you replied to me with that post. It seems so disconnected from what I said.
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Old 2012-06-30, 08:33   Link #95
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I'm not really sure I know why you replied to me with that post. It seems so disconnected from what I said.
Then i misunderstood you, i thought you were writing about the issue discussed in many of recent posts here, about Naruto and Sasuke being overpowered. I just stated that being so powerful is just natural at this point in this type of manga, and so are the powerups. Although in the past i have complained about the powerups too
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Old 2012-06-30, 08:33   Link #96
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Now that Itachi undid the Edo Tensei, I am starting to wonder why we haven't seen Jiraiya in this war, though. Kishimoto still must have plans for this character. We have not seen him being used as a path of pain, although it would have been an obvious choice, and we haven't seen him in this war, even though there were countless other pointless revivals and encounters. Why won't Kishimoto bring Jiraiya back from the grave, when it's such an obvious benefitial storytelling method? It's much more benefitial to the story than bringing back Zabuza or inventing totally new characters like the silver and gold brothers, just to kill them off again. I'm nost saying that Jiraiya will come back from the dead and defeat Madara, though, of course. But there must be a reason behind this.
Kishi's reason was stated by Kabuto in that jiraiya's body was unrecoverable from the ocean floor. it sort of makes sense, but seeing as how some of the other bodies must have been very difficult to find, the readers would have accepted kabuto or nagato recovering jiraiya's body as well. when he wasn't a path of pain (he would have been the summoning one also which makes most sense) I kind of figured kishi just wanted to preserve the memory of jiraiya and that he felt his arc was complete.

I do think it was beneficial to the story to invent new characters for the edo tensei since it made it a more worldy event that effected all the villages. given the fact that there are other ninja villages that haven't gotten nearly as close to as much screen time as konoha, but are just as important in terms of the world balance, it makes sense that they had powerful ninja over the years that could be just as useful in edo tensei and we just hadn't heard their stories yet. i think edo tensei would have been pretty lacking without the new characters
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Old 2012-06-30, 08:39   Link #97
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jiraiya's body was unrecoverable from the ocean floor
I don't understand, how can there be an ocean in the middle of a continent?
If Kabuto was able to recover Madara and many other long dead people then Tobi should be able to recover Jiraiya from a lake in amegakure. Or was it some kind of large river? That would make sense, because there's a lot of rain in amegakure, to have the beginning of a large river like the amazonas, which has dragged Jiraiya's body into the ocean. But it didn't look like a river in the manga and anime, it looked like a lake.
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Old 2012-06-30, 09:02   Link #98
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I'm unclear why many are bringing up DB/DBZ power levels. Nothing we have seen from any character or even any legendary or mythical character has had the potential of destroying a world. By this point in the DB storyline, there were already characters that could kill a world, and DBZ started with characters able to destroy planets (and they only got more powerful). Truthfully, there are more overpowered characters in (current series) One Piece, Katekyō Hitman Reborn! and potentially even Hunter x Hunter.

That is not to say that I do not think that Naruto (and a few others) are overpowered. They are. I just do not see any reason to connect the overpowered nature of these characters to other infinitely more powerful characters.
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Old 2012-06-30, 09:46   Link #99
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I don't understand, how can there be an ocean in the middle of a continent?
If Kabuto was able to recover Madara and many other long dead people then Tobi should be able to recover Jiraiya from a lake in amegakure. Or was it some kind of large river? That would make sense, because there's a lot of rain in amegakure, to have the beginning of a large river like the amazonas, which has dragged Jiraiya's body into the ocean. But it didn't look like a river in the manga and anime, it looked like a lake.
Would Kabuto need Jiraiya's body in order to revive him, though? If I remember correctly, some DNA is enough to do that. But yeah, if Orochimaru never stored anything of that nature in his laboratory, there's probably no way for Kabuto to bring Jiraiya back. On the other hand, if Kishimoto had wanted to revive him, using some DNA preserved by Orochimaru would have been an easy to believe explanation. It's not like the progression of the story is a hindrance to the pervert's revival, it's probably just a decision Kishimoto made.
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Old 2012-07-01, 13:30   Link #100
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read the latest chapter, even though people don't know who was the one who released the Edo Tensei, but they believe that, that someone is the hero who saved the shinobi world,now that is what Itachi deserves, only if everyone knew it was Itachi
after releasing the Edo Tensei, Madara should have been gone but that is not what happened, i did not get what was the risk that Madara was talking about that by releasing the jutsu the contract is released,
but some how Madara is still intact due to may be some flaw in the jutsu
well, anyway the Tsunade moment was nice one to see
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