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Old 2012-06-28, 16:43   Link #3861
Elo the Blue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZGoten View Post
Physically impossible? That was nothing more then a penalty at 15 metres. Doable.
Either you're trolling or your delusional. Neuer would have had to have known where the shot was going and left his feet just as Mario struck it to have any chance.
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Old 2012-06-28, 16:48   Link #3862
ZGoten
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Think whatever you want to think while I just quietly cut tail and do the same. Better for everyone.
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Old 2012-06-28, 16:50   Link #3863
Shinndou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
Completely physically impossible. The shot was half a meter out of the keeper's reach, and at this distance, with a 120 km/h shot, you have no chance to jump either.
Agreed, no keeper could have stopped that shot.

Anyway...

It's weird. We've won but I think I yet have to realize we made it to the final... at the beginning of the tournament I could hardly see us making it through our group, but not because of lack of quality but rather because I thought that we were not mentally concentrated... and boy they proved me wrong, it's like the team is improving from game to game.

One thing I'd like to mention though, everybody is obviously talking about Pirlo's great performances so far, but what's making the difference in the last two games is the perfomance of Marchisio and De Rossi. They've been marvelous, they're everywhere on the pitch both when defending and when going forward, they're precise and clean, good positioning... I was expecting Marchisio to be super tired after the monstruous season he had with Juventus but he still managed to find the energies to perform this well.

And now we're in the final.

Still, I'd rather stay level-headed and say that Spain is still the hot favourite and we're still the underdogs even if we did draw against them in the group stage.

@Mentar
if you don't mind my 2 cents about Germany's tactical approach to the game, Löw's biggest mistake was to use Kroos on the right. I do understand that the man has good passing skills but he would have never been a threat with Chiellini playing on that side of the field. Reus should have played from the very beginning, and maybe even Muller rather than Podolski.

Last edited by Shinndou; 2012-06-28 at 18:41.
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Old 2012-06-28, 17:04   Link #3864
Mentar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinndou View Post
@Mentar
if you don't mind my 2 cents about Germany's tactical approach to the game, Löw's biggest mistake was to use Kroos on the right. I do understand that the man has good passing skills but he would have never been a threat with Chiellini playing on that side of the field. Reus should have played from the very beginning, and maybe even Muller rather than Podolski.
The idea was to have Kroos tail Pirlo and gain a majority of players in the central midfield. That, however, backfired completely, because with Klose, Reus and Schürrle gone, Özil had noone to actually do combinations with. And Podolski was as disappointingly useless as he has been throughout the entire tournament.

I absolutely agree with you - fielding Podolski was a huge mistake, and so was fielding Gomez. Kroos - ah well. I didn't expect much of him, so my disappointment is limited. But leaving Reus out was disastrous. Remember the first 5-10 minutes in the second half, when Germany managed to create several chances, cutting through the Italian defense, before your coach plugged the holes via substitutions? THIS is what we should have done right from minute 1.

Other than that, you guys played a great game. When Italy doesn't want someone to score, you know how to prevent it. And your play out of the defense was swift and sweet. You absolutely deserved the victory. Now get on the pitch and win the finals, you hear me? This semifinal was fun to watch, with lots of chances. Rescue the Euro from Tiki-Taka boredom.
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Old 2012-06-28, 17:08   Link #3865
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Yeah, better for Italy to win the Euro than for Spain.
I don't want there to be a team that defeats the team that defeated our's. Germany will look better if Italy gets the title.
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Old 2012-06-28, 17:12   Link #3866
Bri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinndou View Post
Still, I'd rather stay level-headed and say that Spain is still the hot favourite and we're still the underdogs even if we did draw against them in the group stage.
Dunno, Spain couldn't really deploy their normal midfield dominance against Italy in the group stage and Portugal in the semi's. Spain's lack of a clinical finisher in the team could cost them. 50/50 odds imo for the win.

Who knows it might end up a duel between Buffon and Casillas.
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Old 2012-06-28, 17:17   Link #3867
Shinndou
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Scoring against Spain is going to be super tough, Spain has gotten really good at defending and the midfielders help out a lot.

I wonder if Prandelli will go back to the 3-5-2 formation he used in the group stage match or if he'll stick with the current 4-3-1-2 one.

On one hand having five midfielders keeping the team's barycenter high is good if we want to force Spain to play their passing game far away from the penalty area, on the other hand it's a gamble because the flanks get easily exposed against fast players and Spain does have good wingers (Iniesta, Jesus Navas). I guess Prandelli will confirm the 4-3-1-2 in the end, given the fact that Abate is injured. Whoever our trequartista will be (probably Montolivo again) he'll have to give 150% in switching from attacking to defending back and forth because Marchisio-Pirlo-De Rossi alone might not be enough to keep Spain's midfield under control...
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Old 2012-06-28, 17:40   Link #3868
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Spain has some good wingers but still they rarely have width. Silva and Iniesta likes to move inside. Most of their attacks go down center.

I rather like the 3-5-2 setup as it reinforces the center-backs with an additional player, De Rossi sort of played as a classic libero. Which helps against Silva who likes to drift in between the lines.

Pressure will be on the wing backs to track the Spanish fullbacks, Alba and Arbeloa. On the other hand it also forces the Spanish wingers to do more defensive work. Fatigue could be decisive in this match, and clever substitutions.


Del Bosque is a bit predictable in his substitutions. He usually waits till the second half to bring in a true winger for crosses when the usual frontal assault bears no fruit. Curious if he starts Fabregas or a real center forward.
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Old 2012-06-28, 17:44   Link #3869
Shinndou
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Well if it's going to be a 3-5-2 setup then with Chiellini recovered De Rossi won't have to play as libero. It'll basically be Juventus' 3-men defense with Barzagli-Bonucci-Chiellini. There's still the issue on who to use on the right flank of the 5-men midfield though... Maggio is good at pushing forward but not as good at defending...

It's really complicated, whether it's going be one formation or the other it's going to be a bet depending on Spain's setup.
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Old 2012-06-28, 18:18   Link #3870
Bri
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I'd be completely caught of guard if Spain switched much around. My guess is Torres or Fabregas will be the only question. Will that affect the overall game much?

A 4-3-1-2 / 4-4-2 diamond will always leave at least one full back free to move up. Today that went okay as Boateng didn't bring much going forward, but I'd rather not allow Alba to run amok.

Maggio going forward would force Alba to back-track more often at the expense of his offensive game.
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Old 2012-06-28, 18:30   Link #3871
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Spain does not play with a lot of width, and their left back never advances. So the main drawback of 3-5-2, its weak wings, will be less of an issue. Also since Spain attacks (well sort of), it does so with 7 players very close to each other, so Italy will have the numerical advantage, while playing with two forwards. Also a packed midfield will make Spain's passing game harder to disorganize the defense, particularly if Italy uses a sweeper.

All these of course on paper. Today I could not imagine how Germany could possibly lose
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Old 2012-06-28, 18:40   Link #3872
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At the end of the day I suppose Prandelli will pick the formation based on the fitness of the whole team... both formations require specific roles to work/run more than usual.

Personally with a 100% phisically fit team I would pick 3-5-2 as it would be a more offensive setup, but seeing that our wingers are not entirely fit... I suppose in the end it'll be 4-3-1-2.

Besides, all this tactical speculation usually becomes pretty useless when a team reaches a final: it's that kind of match where anything can happen and fine tacticisms might not make that much of a difference.
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Old 2012-06-28, 19:01   Link #3873
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4-4-2/diamond would be a very offensive approach to the match, sending two players in each wing, at the cost of a weaker centre. I don't think that would be a wise approach to counter Spain's passing game, since it will give them more space, time and chances to draw the defense out of position.
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Old 2012-06-28, 21:59   Link #3874
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Eh, that's not how 4-4-2 diamond/4-3-1-2 works.

Italy's midfield is very narrow and there are no real wingers. They have numbers in the middle, and they are all comfortable on the ball and pass well. The width is provided by fullbacks and somewhat compensated by forwards drifting to wide positions. Cassano and Balotelli are both very good with their movement in this respect.

There is almost no chance of seeing the 3-5-2 again. The 4-3-1-2 works very well for them. And against Spain, packing the middle is a sensible tactic, as Silva and Iniesta both naturally like to come inside. The width is provided by Arbeloa and Alba. The former is hardly a threat going forward, but Alba's overlapping run can be the key to unlock the Italian defence. The supersubs Navas and Pedro will look to stretch play as well.
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Old 2012-06-28, 22:08   Link #3875
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I disagree, the third centre back as sweeper/libero will benefit in defending against Spain's version of total football. 4-4-2/diamond will use a defensive midfielder that will have to maintain his position, while the attacking midfielder in the top of the diamond can hardly contribute defensively, unless Italy goes suicidal and tries to press on the first pass.

Also the width of 4-4-2/diamond can be wide (definitely that won't happen) or narrow. With a narrow deployment certainly they will be able to defend better, but won't get any advantage over deploying a 3-5-2, which offensively can be much more dangerous in a counter-attack, especially given Spain's defensive weaknesses.
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Old 2012-06-29, 00:14   Link #3876
Kokukirin
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People need to stop talking about the "defensive weakness" of Spain. They have only conceded one goal so far this tournament.

The advantage of 4-3-1-2 over 3-5-2 is the extra midfielder in the centre of the pitch. It helps Italy keeping possession in that zone and make it harder for Xavi and Alonso to dictate play. And Spain tends to be narrow as well (before Navas comes in) and that suits Italy's narrow midfield. With 3-5-2 you have 3 central midfielders against Spain's 3 (Alonso, Xavi, Busquets), and all is even in that area.

The disadvantage of the 4-3-1-2 is that no one naturally guards the opponent's fullbacks. Arbeloa is not much of a danger, but Jordi Alba is a real threat going forward. Marchisio will have to shift over and help Abate/Balzaretti and perhaps Montolivo will have to drop back in line with the other 3. But on the flip side, Cassano and Balotelli have been very good at exploiting the space behind attacking fullbacks, and Pirlo has the killer pass to make best use of that.

Italy's 4-3-1-2 is also less rigid than other 4-3-1-2. Pirlo in theory is the deepest midfielder, but he has freedom to move forward, knowing that De Rossi and Marchisio will cover the space. Montolivo's instinct is not to stay close to the forwards, but to drop closer to the midfield 3, and he contributed a lot defensively against Germany.
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Old 2012-06-29, 02:35   Link #3877
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
Spain does not play with a lot of width, and their left back never advances.
What? Jordi Alba has been one of the best, if not the best left back of the tournament.
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Old 2012-06-29, 02:43   Link #3878
Kokukirin
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Jordi Alba is good, but I cannot see him, or indeed any other LB, challenge Fabio Coentrao for the best left back title.
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Old 2012-07-01, 14:02   Link #3879
Haak
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Briliant header. Spain in front.
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Old 2012-07-01, 14:03   Link #3880
Mentar
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What a fantastic goal. Brilliant.

It's notable what incredible ball control the Spaniards have. A class of their own in this final so far.
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