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Old 2012-06-30, 20:00   Link #1
longguilol
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Fairy Tail: Character's Battle Data Charts (Fan Collaboration)

Having seen the special issue of Grand Magic Games Guide Book, I was intrigued by the battle data charts that are presented therein.

However, they are only limited to those characters that are participating in the tournament. Not to mention, Mashima's decision to throw in a random fifth criteria for each character does make them look a bit silly.

As such, I've decided to create a collaboration to come up with a more useful (up-to-date) & probably more expansive set of battle data charts for Fairy Tail's characters (non-fodder, preferably).

Anyone is more than welcome to participate. All kinds of feedback, ideas, suggestions, battle data, & constructive criticism is highly appreciated.

The chosen Battle Attributes -- along with their Definitions -- are:

Battle Attributes


1. Offense
2. Defense
3. Speed
4. Intelligence
5. Durability
6. Stamina
7. *Miscellaneous



Quote:
1. Offense
Based on: magical power {MPF competition is good example}, physical strength, combat experience, combat skill {hand-to-hand, swordsmanship, etc}, maximum amount of damage that can be inflicted via a single attack, attack range & versatility, magical diversity (ability to use various magical elements).

2. Defense
Based on: defensive techniques & skill, magic nullifying & suppressing abilities; basically abilities that shield a character from taking damage.

3. Speed
Based on: outright moving speed, reflexes/reactions, agility, etc.

4. Intelligence
Based on: perception, critical thinking, knowledge, strategic & tactical awareness, logical deduction skills, adaptability, and analytical ability i.e. ability to analyze an opponent for potential weaknesses, etc.

5. Durability
Based on: ability to withstand damage, fatigue & stress, general endurance, maximum amount of damage that one can take, and physical condition/conditioning, age, etc.

6. Stamina
Based on: magical capacity (amount of raw magic at one's disposal). More magic allows for more magical spells to be cast, which in turn extends the amount of time one can last in battle. Also based on age/health, and magic absorption abilities {to rejuvenate magic supply}, etc.

7. *Miscellaneous
Based on: a special (fun) trait/ability that belongs to each character. Extra points awarded for creative, funny, witty, & sarcastic ones. Example: {"Nakama Power" for Natsu}
Voting Results


Lucy, Natsu, Erza, Gray, & Happy:

Spoiler:

Makarov, Gildarts, Laxus, Jellal, & Mirajane:
Spoiler:

Gajeel, Levy, Juvia, Wendy, & Carla:
Spoiler:

Cana, Elfman, Lisanna, Loke, & Pantherlily

Spoiler:

Freed, Evergreen, Bickslow, Alzack, & Bisca

Spoiler:

Macao, Wakaba, Jet, Droy, Max

Spoiler:

Ichiya, Hibiki, Eve, Ren, & Spoiler!: Manga Only Character
Spoiler:

Jura, Lyon, Sherry, Yuka, Toby, & Spoiler!: Manga Only Character
Spoiler:


Battle Ratings: Vote Here


Vote for Lucy, Natsu, Erza, Gray, & Happy Here -- CLOSED

Vote for Gajeel, Levy, Juvia, Wendy, & Carla Here -- CLOSED

Vote for Makarov, Gildarts, Laxus, Jellal, & Mirajane Here --CLOSED

Vote for Cana, Elfman, Lisanna, Loke, & Pantherlily Here -- CLOSED

Vote for Freed, Evergreen, Bickslow, Alzack, & Bisca Here -- CLOSED

Vote for Macao, Wakaba, Jet, Droy, & Max Here -- CLOSED

Spoiler for Some Manga Only Characters:



Remember, having fun is the top priority here.



Scale is 0-10, with 11+ given to those characters with abnormally high stats. Also, whoever comes up with the the most witty/sarcastic/funny Miscellaneous stat will have it featured on the specific character's chart


Example of feedback that you can add to this collaboration:

Character's Name & their Battle Stats: Whatever you deem to be accurate.


Chart Shape Examples:
Spoiler:


Battle Attribute Examples:
Spoiler:


Current Status: Character Battle Ratings Voting & Discussion

Quote:
Important: Read Before you Post:
Characters not yet revealed in the anime must be put under spoiler tags

Last edited by longguilol; 2012-07-17 at 15:39.
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Old 2012-07-01, 02:23   Link #2
Kafriel
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A few comments on battle attributes:


1) Physical power doesn't matter all that much since FT battles are largely decided by a magical factor, should it really be accounted for in offense?

2) Durability vs defense: everyone can take hits but few have actual defensive capabilities (Gray's ice wall, Erza's various armor sets and Lucy's horologium, for example, as opposed to Natsu eating the floor for 10 minutes before recovering with fire). There's already stamina for that, so keep defense instead?

3) Intelligence seems well-described, but I think magical diversity should be accounted for here, rather than in offense. For example, Mystogan used a lot of consecutive disable magic without possessing any actual offensive abilities.

Let me know what you think before we skip ahead to the actual charts.
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Old 2012-07-01, 09:47   Link #3
longguilol
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@Kafriel

Thank you for your feedback

1) Although it is true that most FT battles are largely decided by magical power, certain characters do possess a large amount of physical strength that in most cases, they wouldn't even bother using their magic against an inferior opposition. Example: Gildarts is able to toss Natsu onto the ceiling just by flicking his arm. I'd imagine the likes of him can solely rely on their physical strength against average or below average level mages (Natsu being an above average mage).

And then we have characters like Makarov who utilize magical power for the sole purpose of attaining a tremendous amount of physical strength (Titan form). So although it may not be used directly, physical strength is indeed used by some character's for offense purposes. I'd say we just leave it in?

2) Every one can take hits, but how many hits can they take is the question here. Durability tries to cover that. For example, Lucy will most likely get K.O.ed after getting hit by Gajeel's Iron Dragon Roar, Natsu on the other hand, is more than likely to eat at least a few before going down. So Natsu is more durable than Lucy.

Stamina in Fairy-verse does largely depend on the amount of magic that one has access to. Since magic is used to cast spells, a greater amount of magic implies a greater stamina (ability to fight for a prolonged periods of time). "Magic" is akin to "Ki/Energy" in Fairy-verse, since it is shown that running out of magic takes its toll on someone, rendering them unable to walk in extreme cases. Moreover, taking away someone's magic fast enough, and they'll be incapacitated for a prolonged period of time, and may even die (Example: Aria vs. Makarov).

We could re-word the terminology for it to reflect this. "Stamina" to "Magical Capacity", or just "Magic"? But we'd be ignoring other factors that may affect Stamina such as physical conditioning, age, and the ability to absorb magic by certain characters.

To summarize: Durability is how well someone handles damage, while Stamina is how long can someone fight for in battle.


As for Defense, other characters such as Millianna and Yuki possess magic deflecting/nullifying abilities, while Gildarts is able to disassemble any spell. Ultear on the other hand, is able to fast-forward or reverse time which allows her to pretty much render any magical spells useless. There are many more examples of defensive abilities. So it really isn't that rare of a trait.

3) I don't see anything wrong with accounting for magical diversity in both Offense & Intelligence
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Old 2012-07-01, 14:23   Link #4
Tempest35
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On item #1 - Physical Strength :

I also say leave it in as well. While not viable for all the mages, the physical aspect is still important. For the Vanish Bros. characters, it's all they got to combat against mages.

Also, one only has to look at Erza to see how the physical str aspect ties in to the mag power aspect as well. Everyone knows that Erza has immense physical strength (how else could she hold swords between her toes). It's what makes her fearsome as an opponent - she has access to all those weapons and she can use them easily. The magic Ex-Quip was meant mostly for weapons but she furthered it to encompass specialized armors as well.

Physical Str only really enters into the equation if a mage throws a physical attack or not. For Natsu, Fire Dragon Iron Fist only gives him a force multiplier and a fire-element charge effect to his attack - what is really driving the FD Iron Fist is Natsu's physical strength. It seems odd but physical magic isn't that common in Fairy Tail's world, even though it's proven that many of the stronger mages do in fact utilize magic to enhance or take advantage of their own latent physical abilities.

#2 Durability vs Stamina -

Durability should probably equate to physical endurance while stamina could be slotted under MP for lack of a better term. The two are linked, that much is for certain, but depending on the mage, running out of either can be game-ending or merely a nuisance. I think that for most mages, Stamina(MP) : Durability(Phys) is a 2:1 ratio - for ever 2 points of MP you lose, you lose 1 point of physical endurance. Of course, the ratio is bound to change based on how each mage is trained. Squishy wizards are at best a 1:1 while someone like Erza, Natsu and Gray can have a 3-5:1 ratio. It would explain why most mages keel over when their magic is drained abruptly. They can also pour either side into the other to gain more endurance or magical energy for whatever reason but not all mages can do that. However, a trait like Concentration/Focus could be invoked to lessen the effects of a huge magic draining spell/effect....
...and I'm thinking about this too much like some D&D game...

Quote:
These graphs are just generalizations of the characters, not minutely detailed representations of them...
Quoted so that I remember from now on...
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Old 2012-07-01, 17:40   Link #5
longguilol
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I think Concentration/Focus are more of a personality traits than outright battle attributes, although, I do agree that they ultimately play a role on the effectiveness of one's performance in battle, whether it be on the Offensive, Defensive, or some other end.

As for Stamina vs. Durability:

Stamina is in indeed related to how much magic one possesses:

Quote:
In Fairy-verse:

To utilize Magic, a Mage must use Magic Power. Magic Power is the source of Power for all Mages, it is composed of Eternano. Every Mage has a container inside their body that determines the limits of their Magic Power. In the case that it becomes empty, Eternano comes from the atmosphere and enters the Mages' body and after a while, their Magic Power is returned to normal.
So, no magic = no magical spells to cast.

But apparently, having no magic causes physical exhaustion, & fatigue, etc. For example, during the S-Class exam, Natsu & co. were drained of their magic, and they couldn't bring themselves to walk. Also, when Aria drained Makarov of his magic, he was incapacitated instantly.

Now durability is how much damage/stress/fatigue one is able to cope with.

Endurance seems like a mix of Stamina & Durability.
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Old 2012-07-02, 03:16   Link #6
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Quote:
Also, when Aria drained Makarov of his magic, he was incapacitated instantly.
Also note, completely running out of magic potentially leads to death, as Loki had said to Lucy before she got his key...although subverted when the Erza twins ran out of magic in Edolas.
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Old 2012-07-02, 09:51   Link #7
longguilol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kafriel View Post
Also note, completely running out of magic potentially leads to death, as Loki had said to Lucy before she got his key...although subverted when the Erza twins ran out of magic in Edolas.
And thus the reason "magic" in Fairy-verse is akin to "Ki/Energy". Running out of it can only be a bad thing. "Ki/Energy" ties back to Stamina, i.e. characters with a large enough amounts of energy/magic will be able to last longer in battle. But Stamina isn't only limited to that, it also factors in age, physical conditioning, etc.
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Old 2012-07-02, 12:00   Link #8
Tempest35
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It might be that it depends on how the magic is lost in relation to if it is fatal or not to the mage. If their constitution isn't high enough (the body's resiliance to exhaustion), having their magic suddenly drained could very well shock their system enough to shut it down aka death.

Thanks to the Eldoras arc, we've learned that the Earthland folks literally have magical energy running through their bodies, even though it is not required in order to live. It just means that they have a much higher concentration than other, normal people.

So...are we any closer to figuring out the base stats on which we're running everything off? It might be better to have at least two graphs, one for a general overview of the character and another one or multiple graphs for their respective/different battle forms. I guess we should get the generic, everyday graphs out of the way first though...
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Old 2012-07-02, 12:54   Link #9
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Sure, now we got reason to keep the base stats we've been discussing about I just hope we aren't forgetting anything...
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Old 2012-07-02, 14:34   Link #10
Tempest35
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I still wonder if we can re-word some of the stats to give a better impression of what they are telling and what we are measuring by using them.

Offense and Defense speaks for itself, so does Intelligence...

Speed is one that may need to be clarified a bit more... I assume that Agility is a factor into it but one does not have to be speedy to have agility, it's just a stereotype that the skinnier someone is, the more agile they are, which isn't always the case but I suppose Agility can be included by the over-encompassing attribute of Speed.

The problem ones are Stamina and Durability - moreso in how the stats themselves are worded. I think that Durability should be the overall measure of physical constitution & durablilty while having the magical side just be labled 'Magical Power'. If it was Bleach, it would be Reiatsu...but I don't think that Mashima gave us a term other than 'Magical Power' to go off of, which sucks...

So, my attribute list is as follows:

Offense - MAG attack capability/can also factor in PHY attack capability if needed
Defense - MAG defensive capability
Speed - movement speed, agility, reflexes
Intelligence - knowledge, tatical, stragetic, instinctual
Durability - PHY endurance
Magical Power - how much magical power is at their personal disposal

Willpower - How much of a Determinator are they? This might take care of that pesky 'nakama power' stat since willpower can also include emotional state in it - how much are they willing to push themselves in a battle to win.

If the current graph set is not enough, or if we so choose, we can always expand the list and make sub lists beneath the main groupings, like so:

Offense : A+
Physical STR - A
Magicial ATT - A+

or like this -

Speed : A-
Movement - B
Agility - A
Reflexes - B+

I have the letters set up similar to how the Mage Class rankings are set up:

E - normal human type with little to no training (book keepers, bankers, traders, etc)

D - Low lvl Mook

C - High Lvl/Captain lvl Mook (Twilight Ogre), Pre-time skip, a LOT of the mages in Fairy Tail (All the 2ndarys)

B - Post-time skip, the mages that remained behind have gone up to this, some maybe more.

A - Able to do very serious damage to people/property ie. bringing buildings down relatively easy

S - Able to massive amounts of damage to people/property an order of magnitude greater than A

SS - Gildarts, Makarov-lvl here
Spoiler for Just in case: Related to current manga info/events:
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Last edited by Tempest35; 2012-07-02 at 15:06.
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Old 2012-07-02, 17:20   Link #11
longguilol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest35 View Post
Spoiler:
Keeping track of the sub-attributes for each Battle Attribute is a great idea, it will help us come up with a more balanced score. For example, to come up with a score for Speed, a character would have to be evaluated on:

outright moving speed, i.e. mobility
reflexes/reactions
agility, etc.


This will ensure a better score, since it should reflect on the character's actual abilities

However, I have a slight problem with the way "Magical Power" is worded. To the untrained mind, it might sound like an Offensive trait because of the word "Power" being thrown in it. Would "Magical Capacity" reflect the term better? After all, we are referring to how much magic one has at his/her disposal.

Or we could stick with Stamina and make sure that everyone is aware of what it constitutes:

Stamina (Battle Attribute) =

{sub-attributes}
-Magical Power/Capacity (amount of magic at a character's disposal)
-Physical conditioning (skinny & out of shape, vs. fit & muscular)
-Age (Is the character an 88 year old geezer with an aging body, or a 25 year old adult at his prime?)


What do you guys think?

Anyway, I love your Mage Class rankings, I think they're done pretty well. Which brings me to my next idea:

How about we use the finished Battle Charts to assign a score to each character? The score would ultimately be used to rank their Mage level (D-Class, A-Class, S-Class, etc).

But before getting into the actual scoring mechanics, I'll introduce two different scoring methods that we can use.

A 4-corner diamond Battle Chart will be used as an example to keep things simple, with each attribute having a score range of 0 to 10.



As you can see in the above theoretical chart, the character scores 10 points in Offense, Defense, and Intelligence, and 0 points in Speed. So how do we come up with an overall score? Well, there are two methods:

Method 1 - Simple Average: Total Points / Maximum Points = (10 + 10 + 10 + 0) / 40 = 30/40 = 75%

Method 2 - Surface Area: The area enclosed by the points (colored in copper) is exactly half of that of the diamond's full area. So if we were to assume that the diamond has an area of 1, the colored enclosure would have an area of 0.5. Thus, scoring it this gives: 0.5/1 = 50%. Now the margin between 50% & 75% is a significant. What is exactly going on here?

Well, Method 2 (Surface Area) exposes a character's limitations far more aggressively than Method 1 (Simple Average).

A more complicated 7-corner Battle Chart will shed more light:


Using Method 1 - Simple Average: Same score for both. 34/70 = 49%

Using Method 2 - Surface Area: Left (all over-the-place scores): 17% Right (more consistent scores): 21%. A difference of 4%.


Conclusion:

The Surface Area method rewards characters with well-rounded abilities and punishes characters who happen to have very low scores. Whereas, the Simple Average method is just a dumb numerical value and fails to distinguish between well-rounded characters, and characters with very low scores. Also, the chart on the right scored a bit higher than the one on the left when using the Surface Area method since it rewards consistency, i.e., it rewards characters that happen to be more well-rounded ability-wise, than those that have attributes scores all over the place. IMO, the Surface Area method should reflect a character's actual battle performance more accurately.

Alright, now on to the actual scoring mechanics. We could come up with something like:

Score 1 = Simple Average

Score 2 = Surface Area

Final Score = Average (Score 1 + Score 2).


Let me know what you think

Last edited by longguilol; 2012-07-03 at 19:49.
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Old 2012-07-02, 23:28   Link #12
Ryus
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^Made some good argument of how statics can fool/mislead people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest35 View Post
SS - Gildarts, Makarov-lvl here
Spoiler for Just in case: Related to current manga info/events:
Actually, Gildarts was implied to be at '10 year mission' level which is above SS class but failed his 100 year mission so not at that level. One would naturally assume someone taking on the 100 year mission with the guildmaster's permission had likely completed a 10 year mission or two before with ease.

D<C<B<A<S<SS< 10 Year < 100 year

So one could argue he's SSS class (or SSS+) but not SSSS class (assuming the Black Dragon was related to the 100 year quest and not just some random case of bad luck). Though '10 year' level seems the most accurate term cannon wise and doesn't become a game of semantics due to arguing over +/- ranking, since simply put we can assume he's completed a few of 10 year missions to be approved to go on the 100 year mission.

Now Gildarts vs Makarov I have no idea... since oddly we don't know if Gildarts is one of the Wizard Saints or not (assuming not since he never was called one before which is odd in so many ways). Nor do we know where Makarov ranks in those 10 mages... plus remember the list only includes legal mages in guilds, so not Hades, Jellal, or Bluenote.

My guess would be Jura, Jellal, and Laxus would be SS class mages and Bluenote, Makarov, Hades, and Gildarts being '10 Year' or greater mages. That's just my subjective take on their power levels though. Lets ignore nakama/DF powerups here though... so leaving Erza/Natsu off the SS class list for the moment since to me that more means potential to reach that level soon enough than actualization of SS class power levels constantly.
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Old 2012-07-03, 01:57   Link #13
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For score count, I suggest making an overall estimate, i.e. judging ranks from the surface area of each character's polygon. About the extreme characters like Gildartz and Bluenote, let their offense go to C00L levels The difference in power between the weakest mages (like Bora) and the strongest (Hades) is too much to calculate on a scale of 10. Raising it to four digits could cause some issues with the actual measuring of stats, though...
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Old 2012-07-03, 08:10   Link #14
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now considering very powerful characters like makarov, hades etc etc will have a high score on the charts,
how to measure the stats of dragons in the near future, their scores might go out of the chart
and what will be the stats of the ultimate evil 'Zeref'??, watching how he killed hades with a single blow
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Old 2012-07-03, 10:26   Link #15
longguilol
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Seeing how Mashima pretty much awarded any S-Class trait with a 5/5 score in the special GMG chapter, any characters with abnormally high stats like (Makarov, Gildarts), will get an even higher score which and it will be donated by a COOL sticker.

Example:

Spoiler for COOL Stat:


The COOL label will only be reserved to those characters with abilities that are >S-Class (Wizard Saint Level/SS-Class)

As for the scale itself, I suggest a scale of 0 to 10 with 5 grid divisions. A scale of 0 to 10 will help us distinguish between more characters ( A > B > C > D > E > F, etc), whereas, if we only had a score of 0-5, a lot of characters will end up getting the same score.

I think 5 grid divisions will be easier on the eyes vs. 10 grid divisions:

Spoiler for Grid Divisions:


What do you guys think? How big should the scale be? Any how many grid divisions would be ideal?

Anyway, back to the Battle Attributes, well, if we were to visualize what we have so far, along with the sub-attributes, it'd be like this:

Spoiler for Chart:


*Sub-attribute for Speed should read Reactions/Reflexes (typo)
*Didn't bother finishing it, as I realized it was taking more than 5 minutes
*Refer to the Opening Post for the rest of the definitions

Could it use some tweaks? What do you think, don't hesitate to weigh in with your opinion
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Old 2012-07-03, 12:11   Link #16
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A 10-point system sounds much better than a 5-point one, especially when taking into account the number of characters in question and the variety their physical builds and of the magic at their disposal. 5 grid's indeed easier to read than 10 grid. As for the cool stat, I suppose we can use that, since overwhelming characters are the exception rather than the norm.

Durability: thought we'd switch that with magical capacity?

Offense and defense are pretty self-explanatory since it comes down to what magic a character can use.
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Old 2012-07-03, 12:31   Link #17
Tempest35
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That looks like a lot of fun in PowerPoint...

I am wondering if the age should really be a factor but I guess we can leave it in. Age/Experience does come into play when the two opponents are relatively even physically. Also, it's stereotypical that a younger guy can last longer in an endurance match rather than an elder fighter, but that also depends on the type of training that the older fighter have done over the years. There is a reason why old Asian men are pretty much off the mugging list of any smart criminal...

But I think that overall, physical fitness doesn't really play a part unless the magic and/or their style calls for it, so I really don't think it needs to be factored in as a separate attribute that affects the overall tide of a battle in regards to Stamina. Elfman's pretty buff but he constantly loses out to Natsu and Gray and that's because they apply their magic far differently than he does. Besides, the physical fitness attribute might do better to be slotted under the 'Durability' attribute since a better physique does allow for a stronger, more duarble body.

Natsu will pretty much fight as his opponent fights so if the guy goes bare-handed with no sliver of magical power, Natsu usually just strong-arms them. I'm referring to the first battle against Bora. Natsu didn't use his magic against the mooks, just against Bora. Whether they got caught up in the explosions afterward, that's a different story.
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Old 2012-07-03, 12:55   Link #18
longguilol
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Agreed with the 10 point/5 grid division scale. As for switching out Durability with Magical Capacity, let's look at what each entails:


Quote:
Stamina: The ability to sustain prolonged physical or mental effort.
Quote:
Durability: Ability to withstand wear and tear or decay (withstanding damage in this context)
Quote:
Magical Capacity: amount of magic at one's disposal
From what we know of Fairy-verse, magic is key in battle. It's used to cast spells, and the more one has of it, the more prolonged of an effort they can put forth. Run out of magic: one's physical body collapses and they can no longer fight.

That IMO, is pretty much what Stamina is all about. Magical capacity ties to it directly.

Durability on the other hand deals with how much damage one can withstand. I'll throw an example: Makarov in Titan form took a direct hit from Jupiter and continued unfazed. Erza on the other hand was K.O.ed. The amount of damage that one is able to sustain is key in battle. I don't think we should neglect it (i.e. throw out Durability in exchange for Magical Capacity (which is essentially determines one's Stamina/Endurance).

Edit:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest35 View Post
But I think that overall, physical fitness doesn't really play a part unless the magic and/or their style calls for it, so I really don't think it needs to be factored in as a separate attribute that affects the overall tide of a battle in regards to Stamina. Elfman's pretty buff but he constantly loses out to Natsu and Gray and that's because they apply their magic far differently than he does. Besides, the physical fitness attribute might do better to be slotted under the 'Durability' attribute since a better physique does allow for a stronger, more duarble body.
That's a good point. I wonder though if physical fitness would entail loss of limbs, etc. (Example: Gildarts has prosthetic limbs).

Would that impact his overall power? I'd imagine Gildarts (with natural limbs) being superior to a Gildarts (with prosthetic limbs).

Last edited by longguilol; 2012-07-03 at 13:08.
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Old 2012-07-03, 13:41   Link #19
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Not really, Gildartz doesn't need to move in order to do anything, much like the cookie murderer from Rave :P Also note, physical fitness doesn't seem to matter for take-over users, Jellal's meteor or Dragon Force, since these techniques increase the user's speed with no apparent drawbacks.
Spoiler for manga character, you have been warned:
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Old 2012-07-03, 14:01   Link #20
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How about speed {mobility, reflexes, reactions, etc}. Gildarts having prosthetic limbs could affect his moving speed, or reflexes for example, wouldn't it? So in essence, physical shape/fitness could tie back to Speed.
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