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Old 2012-07-02, 13:21   Link #3901
Kyuu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinndou View Post
Maybe it's because somehow I knew that the team did the best they could given the critical physical form and the fact that we were facing the best national team in the world...
I must see a different team, because I saw an Italian team that quit.
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Old 2012-07-02, 14:55   Link #3902
justavisitor
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Well, looking forward to 2014 world cup I guess. I know a lot can happen in 2 years, but which team do you guys think will do well in 2014? I might decide to cheer for Argentina at 2014 just for the lulz (Winning in Brazilian soil XD)
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Old 2012-07-02, 17:32   Link #3903
Bri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
Well, looking forward to 2014 world cup I guess. I know a lot can happen in 2 years, but which team do you guys think will do well in 2014? I might decide to cheer for Argentina at 2014 just for the lulz (Winning in Brazilian soil XD)
I would put Spain down as favorite. They are already the most successful national side ever with 3 major tournaments in a row, but winning a second World Cup on South American soil would put them on the same level as Pele and Garrincha's 1950s Brazil. That's mythical status and I'm sure that will be a great motivation.

Germany is a close second, they have an incredible talented generation coming in which will reinforce an already very good side.

Brazil on three. A new squad built around the players that survived the post world cup cull (Dani Alves, Ramires, Thiago Silva and Robinho) and some hot young talent like Neymar, Pato, Ganzo. Lot of potential, home advantage but at the moment this selection just doesn't seem good or experienced enough to go all the way.

Outsiders

Italy - The Serie A is the most interesting of the top leagues in Europe at the moment. FFP and a chronic money shortage have made teams more innovative and forced them to consider youth prospects again.

Uruguay - 2011 Copa America winners. Suarez and Cavani will be in their prime.

Portugal - Don't know much about young Portuguese talent, current squad should mostly be intact in 2014.

Might do well

Belgium - Very talented generation in midfield and the back now entering their prime. Could get far or not even qualify depending on coach and confidence issues.
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Old 2012-07-02, 18:14   Link #3904
Shinndou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyuu View Post
I must see a different team, because I saw an Italian team that quit.
I was talking about the whole tournament.

What I meant is that the team exceeded the expectations and when they faced Spain they already gave it all, they were visibly tired and against the best team in the world, I can't put the blame too much on them. It's part of football, Spain was better because they played better and were also phisically fit.

Italy didn't really "quit" until we were forced to play with 10 men due to Thiago Motta's injury.

Last edited by Shinndou; 2012-07-02 at 18:42.
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Old 2012-07-02, 21:38   Link #3905
Athena
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Man, the saddest thing for me after the defeat is that I probably won't see guys like Pirlo or Buffon next time.

...sigh.
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Old 2012-07-03, 00:56   Link #3906
germanturkey
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the commentators were already talking about comparing this spanish side to older teams. obviously i wasn't around when pele was playing but i'm pretty sure winning 3 international tournaments in a row (not to mention how dominant barca has been) in today's world of football qualifies them as the best. like some of the highlights i've seen of pele playing are laughable. its a completely different game now compared to back then.
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Old 2012-07-03, 11:12   Link #3907
Bri
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It's hard to compare players and teams from different eras as the game has changed so much over time. Only thing you can do is compare relative performance.

Spain has been the dominant force in football the last 5 years. The only thing one can hold against them is that we are in a fairly uncompetitive phase in the sport.
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Old 2012-07-03, 13:42   Link #3908
justavisitor
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If there is a time machine and you can bring a team to meet 1970's brazil football team, then I would say any of the top 4 at this euro tournament can beat 1970's brazil. The fitness, tactics, and professionalism are all well ahead of 1970's. But you really can't compare teams that way.

Brazil ruled the soccer world for 12 years ? (1958-1970...they didn't win in 1966) and they still had great influence after the domination. I would say this spain team is one of the best, but I would still wait and see whether spain can become real soccer power after their domination is over.
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To all old and new Sheryl fans:
I am a Ranka fan and I have significant experience in defending various "crimes" committed by Ranka, from her evil plan to terminate human races, to feeding inapporiate food to unknown lifeforms. If you think you find "new" charges aginst Ranka and you are interested, or you care to see how a particular Ranka fan would respond, please feel free to check my previous comment. There is a good chance that I have answered a similiar issue. And of course, my viewpoints do not necessarily represent other perspectivs from numerous Ranka fans in this planet

Last edited by justavisitor; 2012-07-03 at 14:38.
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Old 2012-07-03, 15:52   Link #3909
Shinndou
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Join Date: May 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
If there is a time machine and you can bring a team to meet 1970's brazil football team, then I would say any of the top 4 at this euro tournament can beat 1970's brazil. The fitness, tactics, and professionalism are all well ahead of 1970's. But you really can't compare teams that way.

Brazil ruled the soccer world for 12 years ? (1958-1970...they didn't win in 1966) and they still had great influence after the domination. I would say this spain team is one of the best, but I would still wait and see whether spain can become real soccer power after their domination is over.
I share the same thoughts.

The question is if they can still be a threat once Xavi/Iniesta and other key players will retire. The difference between historical nations like Brazil Germany, Italy and the rest is that the first three countries kept producing talent and still posed a threat in every competition even during their less brilliant times.

Still, what they've achieved so far is enough to make people remember this current generation of players, at the very least.
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Old 2012-07-03, 17:11   Link #3910
Bri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
If there is a time machine and you can bring a team to meet 1970's brazil football team, then I would say any of the top 4 at this euro tournament can beat 1970's brazil. The fitness, tactics, and professionalism are all well ahead of 1970's. But you really can't compare teams that way.
Maybe, I have my doubts if a modern team could cope with the conditions of the 1970s. Pitches and equipment were of much lower quality, not suitable for the modern passing game. Then there is the difference in rules: the old off-side trap and keepers were allowed to pick up back passes. The latter reducing the effect of pressing.

Football was much more of a contact sport back then. Referees allowed players to get away with murder. Spain had trouble with Holland's physical approach in WC2010, well imagine something like 1962 Chile-Italy or 1974 WC Brazil-Holland. That's how bad it could get.




When the player in this match goes to the ground and grabs his face, he isn't diving. A left hook knocked him out and fractured his nose...

Football is like natural selection. Most successful are the teams that have adapted best to the conditions, rules and tactics of their time. You can't simply take a team out of their environment, stick them in another era and expect them to do just as well there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
Brazil ruled the soccer world for 12 years ? (1958-1970...they didn't win in 1966) and they still had great influence after the domination. I would say this spain team is one of the best, but I would still wait and see whether spain can become real soccer power after their domination is over.
It's two generations: 1958-1962 mostly built around players from Pele's Santos and Garrincha's Botafogo.

The 1970's Brazil: built around Gerson, Rivelino, Tostao, Jairzinho, Roberto Carlos, and Pele who was brought back after retiring from the national team in 66.


Th future is hard to predict. Spain's future is tied to the passing game as it's their core strength. If the game moves toward a more physical or individual direction other styles will rise to the top.
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Old 2012-07-03, 19:31   Link #3911
justavisitor
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@Bri
nice vid!! I actually saw them before, but it never occurred in my mind when I made the post..in fact, now I recall when Messi scored a brilliant goal in a similar fashion like what Maradona did in 86 (not the handball, the one he single handedly dribbled past many players and scored), ppl still suggested Maradona was better because tackle from the back was allowed at that time.

Well, I guess it's really hard to compare teams in different eras....I don't know whether i am fortunate or unfortunate to be able to witness the domination Spain is having right now...now I don't know what to wish for...Spain keeps dominating so we can witness something similar to Brazil in 70's....or other teams to take over...But I still say it will be so funny if Argentina wins in 2014...To ppl in Brazil, it will probably be way worse than losing the final in 98
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Come and join Ranka Lee Fanclub !!! Join our club and you will see
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To all old and new Sheryl fans:
I am a Ranka fan and I have significant experience in defending various "crimes" committed by Ranka, from her evil plan to terminate human races, to feeding inapporiate food to unknown lifeforms. If you think you find "new" charges aginst Ranka and you are interested, or you care to see how a particular Ranka fan would respond, please feel free to check my previous comment. There is a good chance that I have answered a similiar issue. And of course, my viewpoints do not necessarily represent other perspectivs from numerous Ranka fans in this planet
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Old 2012-07-03, 21:30   Link #3912
Kyuu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
If there is a time machine and you can bring a team to meet 1970's brazil football team, then I would say any of the top 4 at this euro tournament can beat 1970's brazil. The fitness, tactics, and professionalism are all well ahead of 1970's. But you really can't compare teams that way.

Brazil ruled the soccer world for 12 years ? (1958-1970...they didn't win in 1966) and they still had great influence after the domination. I would say this spain team is one of the best, but I would still wait and see whether spain can become real soccer power after their domination is over.
I watched the YouTube videos above.

And if you consider diving as a "modern" tactic. Today's teams are a bunch of sissies compared to teams back in the day. Hell, just Google: Cristian Ronaldo petticure. (Ugh!). To think, a mere trip and fall is enough for players to wallow on the ground "in pain". Unless a bone is broken or some other real injury occurred, players oughta get right back up and go. And the thing is: some players do just that -- after rolling on the ground "in pain".

As for this Spanish team. I have to wonder if Pele's teams would just simply dance around in circles around 'em. This is a stout defensive Spanish team and are build to be just that. They don't look very fast offensively, despite making their strikes at the right times.
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Old 2012-07-04, 23:45   Link #3913
germanturkey
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as long as barca's academy keeps pumping out players, spain will always be a power. iniesta is also only 24 or 25? so he has at least another 3 or 4 tournaments in him. cesc will eventually succeed Xavi, and he's only 24 or something.
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Old 2012-07-05, 05:27   Link #3914
Azuma Denton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by germanturkey View Post
as long as barca's academy keeps pumping out players, spain will always be a power. iniesta is also only 24 or 25? so he has at least another 3 or 4 tournaments in him. cesc will eventually succeed Xavi, and he's only 24 or something.
Iniesta is 28 years old...
Well, he still has around 4 years to play for Spain.


One of the positive traits that Spain players had now is most of them play in one team (and in this particular case, 2 teams which is Barca and Real). So basically, you play with your usual team mates.
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Old 2012-07-05, 09:34   Link #3915
germanturkey
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^^ is he? haha. how time flies. i remember looking up how old he was a while ago, and that number just stuck with me.

in other news, Robin... no player is bigger than the club.
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Old 2012-07-05, 11:17   Link #3916
Shinndou
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Newspapers keep linking RVP as a potential Juventus target but that's really just highly unlikely, because Juventus doesn't pay as high salaries as EPL teams do... if he's going to leave Arsenal the only realistic destinations are either Manchester City or RM/Barcelona.
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Old 2012-07-05, 12:19   Link #3917
Bri
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Italy has a advantage in taxes rates though. Last season there was talk that Sneijder would leave Inter for Manchester United, however United could not match Inter's wages after taxes, without paying Sneijder significantly more than Rooney.

I consider it quite likely that RVP wil move to Juventus, as it's the only top team that still needs a striker and is likely to adapt their attack to suit him. Plus they play attacking football and he'd have a good shot at a league title. The CL is a gamble at any club. I doubt Arsenal would want to sell him to another EPL team and rather take a lower offer from Juventus. Robin is also quite sensitive to status, Juve is football royalty while City is...most definitely not.

It's been hard wake up call for Arsenal fans to realize club loyalty only lasts as long as a club has something to offer. RVP's clumsy honesty has kind of backfired I gather.

Last edited by Bri; 2012-07-05 at 12:59.
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Old 2012-07-05, 12:52   Link #3918
germanturkey
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he would have been a legend if he stayed. in the ranks of bergkamp, henry, and adams. instead he'll be remembered less than cesc because he only had 1 and a half (at most) good seasons.
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Old 2012-07-05, 13:01   Link #3919
Haak
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Well they've just approved Goal line technology:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18719396
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Old 2012-07-05, 13:24   Link #3920
Bri
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Originally Posted by germanturkey View Post
he would have been a legend if he stayed. in the ranks of bergkamp, henry, and adams. instead he'll be remembered less than cesc because he only had 1 and a half (at most) good seasons.
Henry is a legend of the game, won everything there is to win at the club level with Arsenal and Barcelona and country level with France. Bergkamp already was a star before he joined Arsenal and won several league titles with them. Their legends are based on their success. Together with Adams they were present during the golden age of the club.

What would make RVP a football legend if he stayed with a team that can't compare to the European top club Arsenal was when he joined? The only major prize the guy won was the UEFA cup and that was in his debut year at Feyenoord. Do you think either Bergkamp or Henry would have stayed for long if Arsenal had been a team in decline back then?

Last edited by Bri; 2012-07-05 at 16:51.
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