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View Poll Results: Critique of Episode 38
10: Amazing... 3 7.50%
9 out of 10: Excellent... 9 22.50%
8 out of 10: Very Good... 9 22.50%
7 out of 10: Good... 5 12.50%
6 out of 10: Average... 7 17.50%
5 out of 10: Below Average... 3 7.50%
4 out of 10: Poor... 2 5.00%
3 out of 10: Bad... 0 0%
2 out of 10: Very Bad... 0 0%
1 out of 10: Torturous... 2 5.00%
Voters: 40. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-07-06, 17:56   Link #101
ReddyRedWolf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
First of all, I don't remember anything like that ever happening. I don't even know you, how can I possibly have a grudge? Second, I respectfully ask that you refrain from making this a personal matter, which it isn't.
The part I said about the Dolittle Raid. You said it wasn't genocide. I never said it was.

Then you started to have this idea I accused you of advocating genocide. I didn't.

[snip]

I have an opinion on the series. You don't recognize it as an opinion it is your own fault.

Last edited by monir; 2012-07-07 at 15:47. Reason: Please don't resort to name calling and personal attack
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Old 2012-07-06, 19:39   Link #102
SoldierOfDarkness
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
You're, um, still avoiding his questions. Because not once has the show shown him to be a cruel bastard to his people.
Other than that it's weird that he's conducting such a lengthy campaign.

His people don't have a lot of time...hell even he doesn't have a lot of time and I'm pretty sure Zanald isn't the only one that's probably itching to just go full out which would ruin his "testing" plans.
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Old 2012-07-07, 16:34   Link #103
Revolutionist
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So far there has only been one person who has even talked about extermination and calling the enemy inhuman monsters and such. It wasn't Ezelcant.

hint: he has green hair.
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Old 2012-07-07, 16:43   Link #104
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Originally Posted by Revolutionist View Post
So far there has only been one person who has even talked about extermination and calling the enemy inhuman monsters and such. It wasn't Ezelcant.

hint: he has green hair.
Well when your mother, Home, Foster parent, and 2nd home is killed/destroyed by an Unknown Enemy at the time, you think the same.

Look at Anakin in Star Wars, he Slaughtered an Entire village of Sand People for the death of his mother.....
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Old 2012-07-07, 16:49   Link #105
Rising Dragon
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Originally Posted by Revolutionist View Post
So far there has only been one person who has even talked about extermination and calling the enemy inhuman monsters and such. It wasn't Ezelcant.

hint: he has green hair.
Nooo! Not Kamille! =X
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Old 2012-07-07, 17:05   Link #106
SoldierOfDarkness
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Originally Posted by Revolutionist View Post
So far there has only been one person who has even talked about extermination and calling the enemy inhuman monsters and such. It wasn't Ezelcant.

hint: he has green hair.
Ezcelant's actions have hardly been noble

How many orphans and widowers has he made ever since he began his war against the Earth sphere? There's no way Flit is the only one who sees the Vagans as inhumane given what they've been doing (blowing up cities, gunning down civilians, etc.)

And to top it off he states that he's doing it to test the Earthlings to see if they have the will to live. In other words, he's delaying a war that's costing lives on both sides and while the Earthlings don't have a disease killing them, the Vagans hardly have time on their side.

It's like beating up a kid on the street because his great great great grandfather abandoned your great great great grandfather and he doesn't even know who the hell you are or why your even doing it and your only excuse is, "cause I want you to see if you have the will to live?"

That's just bat**** crazy.

That or the disease isn't as bad as it is since there's supposingly millions of them and they've been able to shrug off heavy battle casualties for over 60 years plus the deaths caused by the disease.

Quote:
Well when your mother, Home, Foster parent, and 2nd home is killed/destroyed by an Unknown Enemy at the time, you think the same.

Look at Anakin in Star Wars, he Slaughtered an Entire village of Sand People for the death of his mother.....
And then Anakin went off to become a slave where he participate in the genocide of all jedi knights....great now you've given Revolutionist another silly absurb reason to cry Flit off as genocidal.
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Old 2012-07-07, 17:37   Link #107
Revolutionist
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Originally Posted by WefiDasst View Post
Well when your mother, Home, Foster parent, and 2nd home is killed/destroyed by an Unknown Enemy at the time, you think the same.

Look at Anakin in Star Wars, he Slaughtered an Entire village of Sand People for the death of his mother.....
Yeah that's not the best of examples, considering you know, his whole becoming Palpatine's apprentice, falling to the darkside, slaughtering everyone in the Jedi temple, and breaking Padme's heart, etc, etc.
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Old 2012-07-07, 18:52   Link #108
Dengar
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I don't think anyone is calling Flit a genocidal maniac. But we do know that his hatred is very extreme (no one's doubting WHY he feels that way btw), and the thought of "wiping them all out" has occurred to him more than once, and he has stated this to be his intent. I'm not calling him a cruel bastard, but lets not forget the facts here. Flit is no hero of peace.

Also, I don't think anyone is saying that Ezelcant's behavior is perfectly fine. I don't think anyone is taking his cruelty towards earthers into question.
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Old 2012-07-07, 19:27   Link #109
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Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post
Has there ever been a benevolent dictator?
Reading this forum is fun and painful. Lurking for 38 episodes, had to create an account.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictatorship

Wikipedia please. There are other cases of dictators being arguably benevolent, for example Nebuchadnezzar II, King David and if you want a more modern example, Jigme Singye Wangchuck, who insisted on democracy but the people rather have stability.

Quote:
Now if this was a normal war economy we should see at least some higher standard of living. But we aren't seeing it.
Did you see any greenery, agriculture? Even so, did the people complain of lack of food? It was more of the disease that is incurable. Think of it this way, Imagine governing an entire country of people being affected with incurable diseases like hep B and HIV and having only antiretroviral therapy to keep the disease 'at bay'. Now, we shall see how good of a leader you can be. I bet the other countries will be insulting your poor governance. Antiretrovirals are very expensive, even after we have discovered them for a good period of time already.

The only way for countries like africa to get adequate supply of antiretrovirals to properly treat its people is to attack america and plunder the resources by themselves. After all the amount of money the UN is throwing, it doesn't seem to be enough, but there is always enough up north, with private consultations on the many different types of antiretrovirals.

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Both sides actions are just too stupid to bear.
Like President Bush? All of the events that have happened in the anime have their real life counterparts.

Quote:
History and current events aren't his strong points. Heck he doesn't understand what an opinion is in this thread.

It is not my fault you can't form your own intelligent opinion.
Pot calling kettle black. Your statements are 100% opinion, 0% fact. Intelligent... not really.

Please, post better arguments here, at least spend 2 seconds reading a bit. It helps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar
Where has it been shown that Ezelcant is as powerhungry as you say?

And where do you get the idea that he's a cruel dictator to the Vagans?
Don't answer a question with a question(unless its rhetorical). Answer with facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness
Then for the rescue mission the Vagan's response is well...very poor. Yes they are in a remote area but surely they would have a door to keep outsiders from waltzing in.
Like how terrorists waltz into airplanes and bombed the twin towers. US have no airforce? How much do they spend on military? Oh dear...
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Old 2012-07-07, 19:40   Link #110
monster
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Like how terrorists waltz into airplanes and bombed the twin towers. US have no airforce? How much do they spend on military? Oh dear...
That's not really comparable. Terrorists didn't attack using fighter planes and they obviously had done more planning than Asem and his crew did.
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Old 2012-07-07, 20:27   Link #111
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Again, I bring up Kim Jong Il the 2nd

His people were HAPPY to be under his rule

His citizens didn't know what they are missing. He controls all the information that comes in North Korea. They don't know that most of the resources goes to the military and to bribe top officials while the rest live in poverty. Or maybe they know, but they have been brainwashed to accept it as something good.

They looked up to him as some kind of prophet. Heck they grieved for days when he died.

Now, Ezelcant doesn't seem like a Saddam Husein archetype. (rule by fear), but does seem pretty similar to a Kim Jong Il archetype (rule by cult/information manipulation)
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Old 2012-07-07, 20:36   Link #112
Rising Dragon
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I think that if something like that were actually the case, Key, then it would've been depicted during Kio's stay there. But there was no focus on anything like that, so there's absolutely nothing to say that that's what Ezelcant is doing to his people.
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Old 2012-07-07, 20:39   Link #113
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We know that what he wants and what he tells his people might not be the same
What he tells his people: We will reclaim Earth for ourselves and improve our living standards
What he personally believes: mankind needs to be punished, so they appreciate life more

Why else did Vagan launch a campaign on several non- military use colonies until now?
Ezelcant sees himself as a prophet with a duty to remind people of their mortality and morality
But that's not the platform he is using to gain support from his people

You know which Gundam character I think he is based on? Crux Dogachi
He tells his people one thing, but deep inside he has a personal agenda
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Old 2012-07-07, 20:44   Link #114
Rising Dragon
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I'm sorry. Where did he say he wanted to punish mankind? Because something like that would imply that BOTH sides get punished because they, together, make up MANKIND. Unless you're saying that Ezelcant somehow views his people as sub-human or something.

He wants to test the Earthers, that much he's actually said. Let's not put words in the man's mouth, shall we?
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Old 2012-07-07, 20:46   Link #115
Revolutionist
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Originally Posted by Key Board View Post
We know that what he wants and what he tells his people might not be the same
What he tells his people: We will reclaim Earth for ourselves and improve our living standards
What he personally believes: mankind needs to be punished, so they appreciate life more

Why else did Vagan launch a campaign on several non- military use colonies until now?
Ezelcant see's himself as a prophet with a duty to remind people of their mortality and morality
Where exactly are you getting all that from? Nowhere has he said that he's a prophet or anything of the sort...
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Old 2012-07-07, 20:50   Link #116
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Oh c'mon.. his people obviously view him as such

but to his credit, he does have some supernatural abilities that some kind of prophetic visions.
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Old 2012-07-07, 20:57   Link #117
Dengar
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Lets just say that unless it's actually shown that he has been misinforming or manipulating his own people, I'm just not buying it. And as long as it isn't shown, it shouldn't be stated as if it's just fact.

I'm not saying he's right in what he does or the way he does it. But from what I've seen so far, it seems that he does have his people's best interests in mind.


In fact I don't really think it's that different from Flit wanting to wipe out all the Vagans to protect humanity.
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Old 2012-07-07, 20:58   Link #118
ReddyRedWolf
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Oh c'mon.. his people obviously view him as such

but to his credit, he does have some supernatural abilities that some kind of prophetic visions.
Cult of personality. But he does recognize his own ability is just a freak mutation not evolution.

Last edited by ReddyRedWolf; 2012-07-08 at 03:50.
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Old 2012-07-07, 21:15   Link #119
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Lets just say that unless it's actually shown that he has been misinforming or manipulating his own people, I'm just not buying it. And as long as it isn't shown, it shouldn't be stated as if it's just fact.

I'm not saying he's right in what he does or the way he does it. But from what I've seen so far, it seems that he does have his people's best interests in mind.


In fact I don't really think it's that different from Flit wanting to wipe out all the Vagans to protect humanity.
My point always has been that he has his own PERSONAL agenda which he is not telling his people

I'm going to quote him

"I want to tell you the TRUE meaning of this war"
"This is NOT merely a war"
"Up until now I have given them (Earth and her forces) the chance to survive"
"The people on Earth don't understand what it truly means to be alive"
"I am going to test them whether or not they have the will to live or not"
"I want them to show me the true value of their lives"

This is his personal belief.

This is what he is not telling his people.
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Old 2012-07-07, 21:37   Link #120
Dengar
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I just don't see how that immediately discounts the idea that he's doing it for the good of his own people.
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