AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Current Series > Sword Art Online

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2012-07-07, 23:07   Link #81
kyp275
ZA ZOMBIE!!!
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Somewhere in the EVE cluster...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako View Post
Maybe not for the original web novel, but it existed when the physical book was published,didn't it?
Indeed it was, but just think about the structure of SAO vol.1, and tell me how you would fit RNR in there.

For better or worse, it's about floor 74-75, you can't really jam RNR in without both disrupting the flow of the story AND lessen the impact of RNR, which IMO had an extremely effective ending to it by having it end with Sachi's letter(and picture of Kirito burying his head on the desk).
kyp275 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-07, 23:21   Link #82
kyp275
ZA ZOMBIE!!!
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Somewhere in the EVE cluster...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
Except, there IS value in how early it happens. One of the first and foremost values being that it was unique timing that we only see 3% of the time (if even that), which made SAO stand out, instead of it using the same old recipe.
The value that you assign to it is something subjective to you only, and while you're certainly entitled to it (hence why I said earlier we'll just have to agree to disagree), it is NOT an objective fact or standard. While uniqueness can be a plus, it is by no means something that's automatically good. There's a good reason why stuff like that typically don't happen at the beginning of the story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
If you're saying it like that, then you don't really understand my point, and didn't properly read or understand my novel thread post that I linked.
Nope, I understand your point and your post, I simply do not agree with it. A chronological adaptation of SAO literally changes NOTHING about the event you're fretting over, except which episode it'll air in. It'd be like someone saying that FOX should've been commended for airing Firefly out of order, because it made it "unique".

Also, if you want to get technical, since SAO was originally written as a stand-alone work, technically the event you're talking about happened during the later parts of the story, which in your book makes it the "same old recipe".
kyp275 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-07, 23:28   Link #83
Fallen3dge
Darkest Light
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
Indeed it was, but just think about the structure of SAO vol.1, and tell me how you would fit RNR in there.

For better or worse, it's about floor 74-75, you can't really jam RNR in without both disrupting the flow of the story AND lessen the impact of RNR, which IMO had an extremely effective ending to it by having it end with Sachi's letter(and picture of Kirito burying his head on the desk).
The flow of vol 1 was very nice and centred, any other floor story should be settled in an SS which was what he did
Fallen3dge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-07, 23:37   Link #84
Shinji103
Crazy Devout Fanboy
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: 1st Ra Cailum-class battleship Ra Cailum, port-side officer's bunks
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
The value that you assign to it is something subjective to you only, and while you're certainly entitled to it (hence why I said earlier we'll just have to agree to disagree), it is NOT an objective fact or standard. While uniqueness can be a plus, it is by no means something that's automatically good.
Except it's a fact that this event and its timing made it different from most every other show that had it all all.
You're right that uniqueness doesn't necessarily mean better, though. Except it did in this case, and the follow-up to the uniqeness was just as good.
And I wasn't the only one who liked it by the way.

Quote:
Nope, I understand your point and your post, I simply do not agree with it. A chronological adaptation of SAO literally changes NOTHING about the event you're fretting over, except which episode it'll air in.
I'm sorry but you don't understand my point, and your line there proves it again. You're too focused on talking about the fact that it will be animated at a different point in the series; I'm talking about how the timing of the event made the series different from just about everything else out there, especially since this event is obviously and clearly a major and significant factor in the series.
In a world where 97% of anime follows a pattern, SAO dared to be part of that other 3% despite the possible detrimental effects of having that kind of event too early. And SAO pulled it off beautifullly. As said above, uniqueness in this case worked out very good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
Also, if you want to get technical, since SAO was originally written as a stand-alone work, technically the event you're talking about happened during the later parts of the story, which in your book makes it the "same old recipe".
Except I'm aware of this. That and the fact that it was then turned into a full-on light novel series yet the author didn't make any changes to the placement of this event like they're doing with the anime. So still unique.

Now we really should call it quits here because I get the feeling Relentlessflame is going to walk in toting the hammer at this rate, this not being the entirely proper thread to be talking about it.
__________________
Shinji103 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-07, 23:43   Link #85
Wild Goose
Truth Martyr
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Doing Anzu's paperwork.
Age: 28
Basically, Shinji says that SAO is unique because a critical question is resolved early, unlike Zero no Tsukaima that took 20-odd volumes and status reset to make up it's mind.

The problem with his viewpoint is that for the purposes of the anime, which MUST stand alone from the LN, it MUST develop its characters and relstionships better. I've said my thoughts on this on the previous page, which rennir has quoted above.

I respect that POV, but I don't think it loses too much with a chronological adaptation.
__________________
~Speaking my mind, even when it costs me~
One must forgive one's enemies, but not before they are hanged.Heinrich Heine.

I believe in miracles.


Last edited by Wild Goose; 2012-07-07 at 23:47. Reason: Typo edit. Srsly needmipad keyboard
Wild Goose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-07, 23:52   Link #86
Wild Goose
Truth Martyr
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Doing Anzu's paperwork.
Age: 28
As someone who makes it a point to support winmouto, i unfortunately have to comfort Suguha's unrequitd love towards Kirito. Kirito and Asuna ftw, period. Ya don't like it, you can always leave: the door was open for you to enter, and it is open for you to exit the room.

Kirito views Sachi as a little sister. Hence also why he helped Scilicaa: "You remind me of my little sister."

The problem with anime viewers these days is they want instant gratification. They don't want to think. They don't consider that when a series shows things from the perspectives of characters cut off from the outside, it will not show the outside.

I feel reslly goddamned old now.
__________________
~Speaking my mind, even when it costs me~
One must forgive one's enemies, but not before they are hanged.Heinrich Heine.

I believe in miracles.

Wild Goose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-07, 23:53   Link #87
Shinji103
Crazy Devout Fanboy
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: 1st Ra Cailum-class battleship Ra Cailum, port-side officer's bunks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
The problem with his viewpoint is that for the purposes of the anime, which MUST stand alone from the LN, it MUST develop its characters and relstionships better. I've said my thoughts on this on the previous page, which rennir has quoted above.
Yeah I saw all that. This being an adaptation, I'm not sure why it MUST be different though. Obviosuly it worked pretty good in the novels after all, and the side stories certainly weren't available when volume 1 came out.

Quote:
I respect that POV, but I don't think it loses too much with a chronological adaptation.
Like I said it's the uniqueness that suffers. It won't ruin the series and I'm not going to hate anything for changing the timing (as long as they don't shaft it when it comes, anyway........), but now it's less different from ZnT and such. Especially since there are some ZnT-esque moments in the side stories.

That should really be a wrap though. *watches out panicked-ly for Relentlessflame*
__________________
Shinji103 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-08, 00:21   Link #88
kyp275
ZA ZOMBIE!!!
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Somewhere in the EVE cluster...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
Except it's a fact that this event and its timing made it different from most every other show that had it all all.
Actually no. The event occured on page 237 out of 335 in volume 1, which puts it squarely in the last 1/3 of the story, which is neither special nor unique compared to other comparable story

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
Except I'm aware of this. That and the fact that it was then turned into a full-on light novel series yet the author didn't make any changes to the placement of this event like they're doing with the anime. So still unique.
Failure at understanding the differences between different storytelling medium. SAO (vol.1) was written as a self-contained stand alone story, as it was originally meant to be submitted for the Dengeki Light Novel Award competition. When Kawahara continued writing SAO, the only choice he had at expanding the story was through additional side stories, as he would've had to rewrite the entire manuscript if he was to integrate them together. An anime adaptation does not have that issue, as it has to be scripted from the ground up, and would in fact fare poorly if it has to adapt the side stories separately on their own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
Now we really should call it quits here because I get the feeling Relentlessflame is going to walk in toting the hammer at this rate, this not being the entirely proper thread to be talking about it.
Why? this all sounds very general discussion-ish edit: guess not general discussion-ish enough


Edit:

After further thoughts, I think a key sticking point here is that Shinji sees the "event" as an equivalent of an "end-game" event which only happens very late in your typical anime stories like ZnT, while said event seems to have occured rather early in the overall Sword Art Online storyline. This is understandable since I think he's only read vol.1 so far.

The thing is if one continue reading the rest of the story, he will realize that instead of it being a kind of watershed moment or a end-game event, it is merely a beginning of a continuing story element.

Last edited by kyp275; 2012-07-08 at 00:51.
kyp275 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-08, 09:22   Link #89
Deltaray
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Age: 21
Heathcliff's Holy Sword looks pretty dam nice from opening :c can't wait to see more of that.
Deltaray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-08, 09:56   Link #90
Nightengale
~Night of Gales~
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
There's good & bad in terms of adapting the story the way-it-is or chronologically. It also highly depends on the way that the anime team wants to present the stories contained within the SAO side-stories.

Eg. I personally feel that Aria in the Starless Night is a story that works better in terms of a chronological story factor. My opinion, mind you, but I felt that it sets up the elements of the starting point for the story way better, showcasing the first true victory for the SAO, before jumping into the time-skip. Also, it sets up the whole Beater-hate thing that lingered throughout Vol.1.

However, based on the way the story played out in my head, I would want the story to them have its time-skip over to 2-years-later proper after Aria, showcasing the matured Kirito/Asuna, only to explore the pains and other mini-adventures that they had went through over the 2 years. (via flashback, or what not)

I stand to be proven wrong though, assuming the anime team decides to go full-chronological order.
__________________
Night~and~Gale: ~ The Final Mythology of the Man who Defied Destiny.

The sleeping lion shall awaken beyond the depths of time, crossing ten billion lights, come to Terra.
Nightengale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-08, 10:07   Link #91
Rayrah
Senior Member
*Graphic Designer
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Age: 20
Send a message via MSN to Rayrah
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilHighDxD View Post
"Heart wrenching"? Hahaha, have every body jump off to their death or just die for all i care. I never care about these lesser character anyway (exception is Kirito's cousin), I feel like the author made the MC feel in love too quickly, cincest ftw even though they are not biological cousin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilHighDxD View Post
If Asuna can just die(yeah I know what I am saying) but I am still rooting for Suguha Kirigaya and Kirito. Alfheim Online >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sword Art Online. I mean the COUSIN......
Uh.. Then the story must've failed in making care for those "lesser" characters, as you call them, but.. I don't think the problem is with the story or the writing...

Asuna can just die? The main heroine? Uh huh. Not gonna happen. Sorry. ;p

As for the current discussion (Asuna x Kirito), I'm sure their romance will still blossom early on, and much earlier than in the majority of fantasy orientated action-adventures with romantic sub-plots. However, that alone isn't what makes it so good; it's certainly part of the reason, but we can't forget the execution (which is well done in this case) as well as the fact that their romance does a lot of things "right". It isn't a matter of subjectivity, but of objectivity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
After further thoughts, I think a key sticking point here is that Shinji sees the "event" as an equivalent of an "end-game" event which only happens very late in your typical anime stories like ZnT, while said event seems to have occured rather early in the overall Sword Art Online storyline. This is understandable since I think he's only read vol.1 so far.

The thing is if one continue reading the rest of the story, he will realize that instead of it being a kind of watershed moment or a end-game event, it is merely a beginning of a continuing story element.
Yes, I agree with Shinji in that respect. More often than not, it's something seen at the end of a series, and it's because of that there isn't much development to be had for the pair. There also isn't much interaction to be seen between the pair. But because it happens early on, it's like you said, it's merely the beginning for them. Beginning at such a stage allows for more development for both characters, as well as more adorable romantic moments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deltaray View Post
Heathcliff's Holy Sword looks pretty dam nice from opening :c can't wait to see more of that.
Indeed! The OP was very well done. :>

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post
However, based on the way the story played out in my head, I would want the story to them have its time-skip over to 2-years-later proper after Aria, showcasing the matured Kirito/Asuna, only to explore the pains and other mini-adventures that they had went through over the 2 years. (via flashback, or what not)

I stand to be proven wrong though, assuming the anime team decides to go full-chronological order.
Agreed. A side story or two introducing some of the main cast after Aria could work well. The rest of the side stories (that is, if they don't keep it in complete chronological order) could be shown as flash backs after the time-skip.
Rayrah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-08, 12:13   Link #92
Utsuro no Hako
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post
Eg. I personally feel that Aria in the Starless Night is a story that works better in terms of a chronological story factor. My opinion, mind you, but I felt that it sets up the elements of the starting point for the story way better, showcasing the first true victory for the SAO, before jumping into the time-skip. Also, it sets up the whole Beater-hate thing that lingered throughout Vol.1.

However, based on the way the story played out in my head, I would want the story to them have its time-skip over to 2-years-later proper after Aria, showcasing the matured Kirito/Asuna, only to explore the pains and other mini-adventures that they had went through over the 2 years. (via flashback, or what not)

I stand to be proven wrong though, assuming the anime team decides to go full-chronological order.
Here's my guess:

2) Aria
3) Red Nosed Reindeer (there are so many scenes in the PV that I'm sure it's going to be an early episode)
4) The Black Swordsman (honestly, if Scilica weren't featured so prominently in the promotional art, I'd expect this to be an OVA)
5) Asuna makes dinner for Kirito
6) 75th Floor Boss Fight
7) Warmth of the Heart (flashback to explain Kirito's Dual Swords)
8) Kirito vs Heathcliff
9) Kirito as a Blood Knight/Asuna & Kirito get married
10) Morning Dew Girl
11) Fishing
12) 76th Floor Boss Fight
13) Final Battle

That would finish the SAO arc in a single cour. Of course it's always possible they might do Murder Case and show the coalition against the Laughing Coffins, which would stretch it a bit longer.
Utsuro no Hako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-08, 12:22   Link #93
Rayrah
Senior Member
*Graphic Designer
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Age: 20
Send a message via MSN to Rayrah
I have to say, that's a pretty well thought out guess. I'd be delighted if it all happened in that order.
Rayrah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-08, 12:32   Link #94
Hmm....
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
That list sound good.

Too bad it seem like First day sidestory won't make into anime I do like that one.
__________________
(\__/)
(O.o )
(> < ) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination!
Hmm.... is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-08, 12:45   Link #95
Deltaray
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Age: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hmm.... View Post
That list sound good.

Too bad it seem like First day sidestory won't make into anime I do like that one.
But then again, it's not so groundbreakingly important as others are, it's kinda only explains little about quests and how Kirito has his Anneal blade for Aria story.
Deltaray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-08, 12:45   Link #96
Somnus
Eh?
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Canada
So, even though I've read the novels, I hadn't read Aria. What a mistake. After just finishing the read now, I'm even more excited for ep. 2
__________________
Somnus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-08, 13:10   Link #97
DevilHighDxD
I <3 u SAKI!
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: In the arm of the Saki Rukino... Duh!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aphrah View Post
Asuna can just die? The main heroine? Uh huh. Not gonna happen. Sorry. ;p
Oh yes it can happen, if the author decide to do a 360 turn and wipe Asuna off the context of Sword Art and paired Kirito with his cousin. I am really hope the ALO arc can be animated along with GGO Arc (I would love to see that Girly face to be animated).Btw anyone know when will the next Volume come out?
DevilHighDxD is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-08, 13:12   Link #98
Rayrah
Senior Member
*Graphic Designer
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Age: 20
Send a message via MSN to Rayrah
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilHighDxD View Post
Oh yes it can happen, if the author decide to do a 360 turn and wipe Asuna off the context of Sword Art and paired Kirito with his cousin. I am really hope the ALO arc can be animated along with GGO Arc (I would love to see that Girly face to be animated).Btw anyone know when will the next Volume come out?
You're funny!

GGO won't be animated, but ALO will. Volume 10 is supposed to come out in a day or two in Japan. But that's a topic for the L/N thread.
Rayrah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-08, 13:40   Link #99
com_gwp
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilHighDxD View Post
Oh yes it can happen, if the author decide to do a 360 turn and wipe Asuna off the context of Sword Art and paired Kirito with his cousin. I am really hope the ALO arc can be animated along with GGO Arc (I would love to see that Girly face to be animated).Btw anyone know when will the next Volume come out?
360? So we'll just end up back at Asuna again?

Oh and what joy, for me to finally have a show where I can be part of this exclusive spoilerish club
com_gwp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-08, 14:37   Link #100
DevilHighDxD
I <3 u SAKI!
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: In the arm of the Saki Rukino... Duh!
Quote:
Originally Posted by com_gwp View Post
360? So we'll just end up back at Asuna again?
How about 180 or 90 turn? So GGO wouldn't not be animated? So sad cause I really want to Kirito with that face animated
DevilHighDxD is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:29.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.