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Old 2012-07-03, 21:39   Link #101
grevierr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Von Himmel View Post
Spoiler:
Spoiler for MLA:
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Old 2012-07-03, 23:02   Link #102
delorean2200
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Just so there are no confussion:

Spoiler for regarding the the situation after...:
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Old 2012-07-06, 06:04   Link #103
Tk3997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grevierr View Post
Not sure if you got the point of mla, hope in despair..

Fair enough, i guess its painful for you to empathize with characters who are constantly in dire status.
I've seen variations on this before and it's a daft argument, just as bad as some of the haters own knee jerk nonsense. I think what some fans don't quite grasp is that many people that dislike the series aren't "too stupid" to get it, they get it just fine, but don't particularly like what's being said, or more precisely in most cases I think how it's done.

The problem is that if you push this kind of thing too far it stops being compelling and heartbreaking and starts to become amusing, or just eye roll inducing. See constant pointless death and despair isn't "realistic" and it's not particularly good storytelling for the most part either. When the atmosphere becomes so almost cartoonishly bleak it starts to come off almost as a parody. Honestly I'm mostly watching it cause I'm a bit of an ass and I enjoy picking things apart at a technical level.

Quote:
After all, in the Grim Darkness that is MuvLuvAlternative, there is only NOM NOM NOM!
Which is why it comes off as rather trite.

In all honestly though I think your utilization of a 40k meme is rather apropos, as that's a universe that has reached and leaped the threshold I was speaking off. As let's be honest here nothing in 40k is actually depressing or compelling anymore; it's turned into black comedy. Muv-Luv is, for me anyway, flirting with that line. Where when I'm probably supposed to horrified or depressed I find myself bemused or irritated over the constant stream of coincidences, poor choices, or terrible outcomes that keep making everything worse. It's like a meta-fictional slap stick routine where the characters blunders onto a wet floor, brains himself on a shelf knocking a bucket onto his head, and then wanders around dazed and blinded off a giant sheer cliff that was inexplicably placed ten feet away...

Quote:
Originally Posted by grevierr View Post
More like every single mecha show after Stellvia of the Universe and Blue Gender. FMP is still too super real for me.

I always saw MLA to be a gritty realistic mecha alternate world story. Unlike other mecha shows nowadays...
I'm gonna have to kinda question how exactly Muv-Luv can classify as "realistic" in any sense of the word. Last I checked draining the oceans with unobtainium bombs, anti-gravity propelled doom fortresses, biological organisms somehow able to produce weapons grade lasers, and ESP are junk science of the highest order. Honestly the entire "biological creatures can threaten modern armies" idea is both preposterous, and at this point frankly cliche enough, to dispute it's realism all on it's own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grevierr View Post
Just wanted to check, anyone here read the John Ringo Posleen War series?

Its like Starship troopers, with more war and machines. And its most like the situation in MLA as well. Again, humanity is almost at despair status, when human tech and ingenuity overcomes.
I'm quite familiar with the series and the numerous problems is tends to share blatantly nationalist viewpoint, hilariously contrived scenario, boring and flat antagonists, and utterly illogical weapons systems in response to the invaders, and only some tiny group outside the normal chain of command seeming to do ANYTHING useful among the humans. All more minor niggles that keep me cool on the franchise as a whole and that's why I'd rate the Posleen books "okay if you mostly disengage your brain and laugh at the melodrama", and I suppose on Balance I'd have to give Muv-Luv a similar rating.

ACS would just ruin everything's shit though, BETA war I'd be over in like a month with a division of those.
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Old 2012-07-06, 10:55   Link #104
fertygo
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Is very necessary to watch KGNE and Akane Maniax before playing Muv-Luv Extra?
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Old 2012-07-06, 12:07   Link #105
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Originally Posted by fertygo View Post
Is very necessary to watch KGNE and Akane Maniax before playing Muv-Luv Extra?
Nope. Muv-Luv works well as a standalone story.
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Old 2012-07-06, 13:35   Link #106
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Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Honestly the entire "biological creatures can threaten modern armies" idea is both preposterous, and at this point frankly cliche enough, to dispute it's realism all on it's own.
Spoiler for Major Alternative Spoiler:
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Old 2012-07-06, 13:58   Link #107
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Originally Posted by delorean2200 View Post
Just so there are no confussion:

Spoiler for regarding the the situation after...:
It's been stated that there are at least something like

Spoiler for spoiler?:
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Old 2012-07-06, 15:34   Link #108
Silvance
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fertygo View Post
Is very necessary to watch KGNE and Akane Maniax before playing Muv-Luv Extra?
Not necessary, but I'd recommend it anyway. Why? So you'll get some of their dark humor in Extra. In addition, you'll scream like a little girl out of delight in Alternative

Spoiler for A01:
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Old 2012-07-06, 22:58   Link #109
grevierr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LystAP View Post
Spoiler for Major Alternative Spoiler:
Spoiler for science:

Last edited by grevierr; 2012-07-07 at 00:08.
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Old 2012-07-07, 00:06   Link #110
grevierr
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Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
I've seen variations on this before and it's a daft argument, just as bad as some of the haters own knee jerk nonsense. I think what some fans don't quite grasp is that many people that dislike the series aren't "too stupid" to get it, they get it just fine, but don't particularly like what's being said, or more precisely in most cases I think how it's done.

The problem is that if you push this kind of thing too far it stops being compelling and heartbreaking and starts to become amusing, or just eye roll inducing. See constant pointless death and despair isn't "realistic" and it's not partocuarly good storytelling for the most part either. When the atmosphere becomes so almost cartoonishly bleak it starts to come off almost as a parody. Honestly I'm mostly watching it cause I'm a bit of an ass and I enjoy picking things apart at a technical level.
Well, all i can say was never trying to put down anyone's opinion and never thought of anyone as stupid. Misinformed, yes, but stupid, never. Like i stated, i respected that some would find the endless lost of peace to be less then amusing.

And while i agree that lately the plots that surround stories based on horror and mystery tend to become terror parody (aka Another), i disagree that MuvluvAlt would fall under the same category. The plot is written such that the deaths of the prominent characters give value to the main objective. There was very rarely a series of events that the characters could not have any option but to die. They could have taken the easy way out, but they always choose to complete the mission.

There is also a threshold were people who have seen shit either stop crying or laugh at it. Its where the expression "to start crying, or laugh at the situation" comes from, and would be the start of PSTD reaction. The other reaction would be to clam up around a bleeding heart, and remain stoic. Personally i'm on the border, where i joke at the misery but still cry when it happens. Even on my 11th MLA play through, my heart still bleeds. Which is why i still enjoy reading a good plot play on emotions regardless of the cliche.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Which is why it comes off as rather trite.

In all honestly though I think your utilization of a 40k meme is rather apropos, as that's a universe that has reached and leaped the threshold I was speaking off. As let's be honest here nothing in 40k is actually depressing or compelling anymore; it's turned into black comedy. Muv-Luv is, for me anyway, flirting with that line. Where when I'm probably supposed to horrified or depressed I find myself bemused or irradiated over the constant stream of coincidences, poor choices, or terrible outcomes that keep making everything worse. It's like a meta-fictional slap stick rountine where the characters blunders onto a wet floor, brains himself on a shelf knocking a bucket onto his head, and then wanders around dazed and blinded off a giant sheer cliff that was inexplicably placed ten feet away...
Again, my opinion is as stated. Except in WH40k, there is no hope... just WARGGGH!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
I'm gonna have to kinda question how exactly Muv-Luv can classify as "realistic" in any sense of the word. Last I checked draining the oceans with unobtainium bombs, anti-gravity propelled doom fortresses, biological organisms somehow able to produce weapons grade lasers, and ESP are junk science of the highest order. Honestly the entire "biological creatures can threaten modern armies" idea is both preposterous, and at this point frankly cliche enough, to dispute it's realism all on it's own.
Well, my context in this case is mecha anime. The only real hard core SF anime that does not have an plotainium i have seen is Patlabor.

Perhaps I should rephrase it as real mecha show that includes Hard Science. Its very rare for me to find the Single Electron test, Quantum Mechanics, Higgs Boson, Parallel worlds theory, Von Neumann space exploration theory, all in the same plot. In a War Setting. MLA and John Ringo's series of novels are just about what I can find.

Biological creatures can threaten modern armies if they have diamond hard shells and claws, and outweight the armies by several million tons.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
I'm quite familiar with the series and the numerous problems is tends to share blatantly nationalist viewpoint, hilariously contrived scenario, boring and flat antagonists, and utterly illogical weapons systems in response to the invaders, and one some tiny group outside the normal chain of command seeming to do ANYTHING useful among them. All more minor niggles that keep me cool on the franchise as a whole and that's why I'd rate the Posleen books "okay if you mostly disengage your brain and laugh at the melodrama", and I suppose on Balance I'd have to give Muv-Luv a similar rating.

ACS would just ruin everything's shit though, BETA war I'd be over in like a month with a division of those.
I agree with you that Ringo has an overwhelming sense of patriotism in his novels. However, although the plot can get contrived at points, if you look beyond that it still is awesome some of the things he came up with, regardless of how practical it really is.
Spoiler for tag:
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Old 2012-07-07, 11:06   Link #111
John117xCortana
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What happened in the end of Unlimited ? After Operation Babylon ?
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Old 2012-07-07, 11:31   Link #112
grevierr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John117xCortana View Post
What happened in the end of Unlimited ? After Operation Babylon ?
Thats what's covered in the MLA Chronicles, ML Unlimited The Day After. Currently the VNs are up to vol 2.

Spoiler for MLU TDA:
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Old 2012-07-07, 11:43   Link #113
John117xCortana
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More details please ?

What happened to that Shirogane ?
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Old 2012-07-07, 11:55   Link #114
LystAP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grevierr View Post
Thats what's covered in the MLA Chronicles, ML Unlimited The Day After. Currently the VNs are up to vol 2.

Spoiler for MLU TDA:
From what I understand:

Spoiler for BETA in Day After:



Quote:
Originally Posted by John117xCortana View Post
More details please ?

What happened to that Shirogane ?
Spoiler for Shirogane:
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Old 2012-07-07, 20:17   Link #115
touge-n00b
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LystAP View Post




Spoiler for Shirogane:
Actually
Spoiler for Shirogane:
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Old 2012-07-07, 21:40   Link #116
grevierr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by touge-n00b View Post
Actually
Spoiler for Shirogane:
Spoiler for MLA:
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Old 2012-07-07, 22:23   Link #117
John117xCortana
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What does "A Dead Man Walks Among Us." mean philosophically ?
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Old 2012-07-07, 22:37   Link #118
Dragonkid11
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Spoiler for MLA-BETA:
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Old 2012-07-07, 23:08   Link #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by touge-n00b View Post
Actually
Spoiler for Shirogane:
Oh I think I've actually seen that CG.

Found it;

Spoiler for Chronicles 3 Spoiler:
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Old 2012-07-07, 23:16   Link #120
grevierr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John117xCortana View Post
What does "A Dead Man Walks Among Us." mean philosophically ?
Philosophically, we are ALL dead men walking. Johnny Walked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonkid11 View Post
Spoiler for MLA-BETA:
Spoiler for Science:
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