AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Nanoha

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2012-06-23, 12:33   Link #241
VezSketch
Member
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Age: 24
Most of DeVille's fight happened entirely off-panel and we saw very little .... He may be stronger than Cypha, but we have no way of knowing that at the moment.

And Veyron did hold on to Subaru and stop her movements, doing it bare handily or not doesn't matter. He was only mentioned because he hasn't been proven to be as strong as either DeVille or Cypha.

Here's another wowzer: Veyron pretty much tanked Thoma's Silver Hammer without damage. Erio damaged him with his Strike Cannon. Huh? Any explanations for that?
VezSketch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-23, 12:49   Link #242
Justin_Brett
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie
Yeah but the moments leading up to it made him look far more dangerous to fight than Cypha. Considering they all apparently have individual powers, though, ranking them without official info is probably pretty hard.

And because Touma was obviously floundering around in that first fight, since he'd never done anything like that before? He'd probably beat Veyron up now.
Justin_Brett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-23, 12:56   Link #243
Keroko
Adeptus Animus
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 26
Defensive spells have been shown repeatedly to completely halt the enemy attack, regardless of the caster's physical strength. This falls under secondary special powers, something that is often ignored (either consciously or unconsciously) for the simple reason knows as "plot hole." Nanoha has shown all signs of superior defense, but no signs of superior physical power apart from this one time. She often outright avoids melee, something that would make little sense if superior defense = superior strength.

Also, Nanoha used magic to telekinetically keep Teana afloat. If a reason must be found as to why Nanoha wasn't thrown backwards (and I sincerely believe there isn't), I would start there before claiming she has high physical strength.

In short? I'm not buying that Nanoha has S-rank strength just by virtue of having S-rank magic. Mainly because of Hayate, who as far as I can see, Hayate is the best example of this (Could you elaborate on why you think she's a crappy example?). She has a shit-ton of mana, but can't do squat with it in melee, proving that magic is like any other skill: It has different specialization which require actual training to master. Just like a pro-runner isn't automatically a pro-boxer, someone with very powerful ranged spells won't automatically be stronger in melee.

Back to Subaru, I remember Subaru tossing Nove around like a ragdoll when she went full-cyborg rage on her. And in Vivid both use magic, so it's logical they crawled back to equal level. And yes, I am positive magic is not accounted for in the ranks the numbers were given, as they were specifically stated not to use magic, and their ranks in physical power were specifically stated to be the result of cyborg enhancement.

Now, on to Zest (wow, we're busting out the entire cast aren't we?) endurance has rather much to do with it. A punch can be done with a burst of strength. Lifting something is when endurance comes peeking around the corner. Zest is actually a good example of this: He curbstomped Vita with his full-drive, but this was a burst of strength limited to only a very short amount of time. Good for one attack, but unsustainable in the long run.

Now as for your last statement... hoo boy, rather generalizing. Total strength? No. Not at this point. Physical? The aforementioned calculation. Apart from her cyborg rank + magic rank? No. There are no on-screen examples of her physical strength surpassing that of Fate or the Wolkenritter. StikerS was rather lacking in "ooh" and "ahh" in general, and the soundstages unless they actually talk about what happens don't really show anything, leaving our imagination to fill in most blanks, with all subjectivity thereof.

Subaru did tank a high explosive howitzer shot though, which was rather awesome to listen to.
__________________
Keroko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-23, 13:24   Link #244
VezSketch
Member
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Age: 24
Quote:
Defensive spells have been shown repeatedly to completely halt the enemy attack, regardless of the caster's physical strength.
We're specifically talking about field defenses that make up the barrier jacket here. Here's an example - Nanoha blocked Vivio's strike with a barrier/field but was still pushed back from the force of the blow. No such thing happens when blocking Subaru's strike.

Quote:
Also, Nanoha used magic to telekinetically keep Teana afloat. If a reason must be found as to why Nanoha wasn't thrown backwards (and I sincerely believe there isn't), I would start there before claiming she has high physical strength.
Huh?

Quote:
Nanoha has shown all signs of superior defense, but no signs of superior physical power apart from this one time. She often outright avoids melee, something that would make little sense if superior defense = superior strength.
Having a preferred fighting style and "avoiding" melee doesn't prove anything.

Quote:
In short? I'm not buying that Nanoha has S-rank strength just by virtue of having S-rank magic. Mainly because of Hayate, who as far as I can see, Hayate is the best example of this (Could you elaborate on why you think she's a crappy example?). She has a shit-ton of mana, but can't do squat with it in melee, proving that magic is like any other skill: It has different specialization which require actual training to master. Just like a pro-runner isn't automatically a pro-boxer, someone with very powerful ranged spells won't automatically be stronger in melee.
Nanoha was shown to be fighting Signum in close combat in a panel. Warding off Vivio's physical attacks and clashing with her, albeit with the Blaster System - regardless, she has to be pretty powerful to do that and she's clearly comparable to her. Nanoha was clashing with Reinforce in close combat, too.

The way she gained her magic and the specific reason why she's rather limited (her high mana reserves make it hard to process the energy quickly). It doesn't apply to other mages. Hayate is a extremely special case, no "and"'s or "but"'s about it. She can't be fairly compared to anyone and no way would she prove the rule you believe magic follows under. No one in the verse has such a discrepancy in strength and magical output - S+ Rank Magic, yet would lose to Caro in a fight. And we also aren't fully aware as to why she sucks at melee.

Zest was dying and sick, my dude. That's the only reason why Full Drive wasn't sustainable. He's actually a pretty terrible example, unless you believe devices can only achieve their most powerful form for seconds. There's no reason to believe lifting and striking, both being achieved through the same power, would be differ for all mages other than Vita. That's something you have to prove. My reasoning works with less assumptions.

Last edited by VezSketch; 2012-06-23 at 14:21.
VezSketch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-23, 14:14   Link #245
Akiyoshi
The Flame Crussader
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
I see you two continued the chat for longer, and i'm mostly on Keroko's side for now i just want to comment on this a bit before continuing:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
He's got a partial point that devices can be designed for offense, speed, support or defense. Beyond that... well, yeah. Giving Raising Heart to a random TSAB smuck is not going to do much.
The point is that AEC-Equipement are not "devices" and work pretty differently. They just use magic as a powersource to produce entirely different energy-nased attacks. The user's power output probably just ifnluences how fast they can recharge and how long/strong the attack will be. But their durability isn't compromised directly to the user's power. It's more related to the materials the Equipement is made of (Cypha even mentioned something about a stronger alloy used on Signum's equipement, seems CW finally is trying to improve the crappy durability of their products, but Cypha demonstrated they still have work to do xDU).

Bardiche has proven to be farily more durable than almost every AEC-Equipement showed up to date and the reason probably lays in the fact he actuall CAN rely on Fate's magical output to enhace it's defenses (which will make some sense as those yellow blades look really thin and fragile xDU). The AEC-lack such advantage against EC Drivers and as such keep been ripped appart battle after battle xDU

Ok, no to continue with the actual conversation xD

Quote:
Originally Posted by VezSketch View Post
We're specifically talking about field defenses that make up the barrier jacket here. Here's an example - Nanoha blocked Vivio's strike with a barrier/field but was still pushed back from the force of the blow. No such thing happens when blocking Subaru's strike.
It prove's Keroko's point, Nanoha's defensive magic is just that good and Vivio is just that much stronger than Subaru (she probably is much stronger than everyone anyway xDU).

Quote:
Originally Posted by VezSketch View Post
Huh?
I think Keroko referrs to the fact Nanoha can use her magic to fly and make things float which will also be used to reduce the speeding force and kinect energy of non-flying mages like Subaru. Without independent flight the power of Subaru's attacks depends mostly on how fast she can run and how hard she can punch, if her motion is cancelled her striking power gets reduced dramatically.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VezSketch View Post
Having a preferred fighting style and "avoiding" melee doesn't prove anything.
Nanoha can do well in melee because she has the magic that can support her on that, but even then it isn't her speciality. Sure she did well against Signum but in melee she had the greater trouble. She ultimately preferred to set up traps and blast her opponents rather than smack them around. By the way, Nanoha only have a single shown attack that can be considered "melee" and it was her A.C.S. Drive when she assault her oponent with the bayonett tip on Raising Heart Excelion. Aside of that she doesn't have any melee attack, but she was smart enough to develope a series of quick casting, melee-range bombardement spells that comes really i handy in close combat, combined with her high proficiency in shield and binds she can do well even against melee experts like Signum and Fate. Not by matter of "strenght" but by matter or strategy and wise use of her magic. Nanoha is a very complete and very powerfull mage, but that have little to do with her physical strenght xDU


Quote:
Originally Posted by VezSketch View Post
Nanoha was shown to be fighting Signum in close combat in a panel. Warding off Vivio's physical attacks, albeit with the Blaster System. Probably missing more, but I'm on the clock here. I'll be back later on.
Already explained the reasons above. Nanoha's skill with magic is just that awesome xD

Quote:
Originally Posted by VezSketch View Post
The way she gained her magic and the specific reason why she's rather limited (her high mana reserves make it hard to process the energy quickly). It doesn't apply to other mages. Hayate is a extremely special case, no "and"'s or "but"'s about it. She can't be fairly compared to anyone and no way would she prove the rule you believe magic follows under. No one in the verse has such a discrepancy in strength and magical output - S+ Rank Magic, yet would lose to Caro in a fight. And we also aren't fully aware as to why she sucks at melee.
Curiously, Most SS rank mages with humongous pwoer shown in the series lack some physical condition. Let's take Precia Testarossa as another example. She powerfull as hell, already on Hayate's league and probably even more powerfull. Yet she barealy can hold herself in melee. Arf break her shields and give is about to give her a sound beating only stopped because she was distracted for a moment and Precia blasted her showing just how powerfull her bombardment spells are. In the Gears of Destiny storyline Signum acknowledge Precia's monstruous power but totally destroyed her in melee anyway, commenting how lacking is Precia in physical performance in comparission with Fate, despite the crazy woman's humongous magical power. Jail Scaglietti, another SS-ranker, also didn't show to be much of a fighter, most of his fight was done by his gauntlet and those red wires he used on Fate, the moment she was able to free and go for him the guy didn't even tried to dodge (ok, he wanted to get killed but it was implied he runs out of options to fight against Fate). So yeah, bigger magical powers =/= bigger physical strenght by default. Your powerscaling is flawed.

Well, we're about to watch "nd Movie A's where we're about to see another possible SS-ranker, Lindy Harlown, engage in actual battle against Signum, of all people, so were about to see if she can break the stigma of SS-rankers being bad meele fighters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VezSketch View Post
Zest was dying and sick, my dude. That's the only reason why Full Drive wasn't sustainable. He's actually a pretty terrible example, unless you believe devices can only achieve their most powerful form for seconds. There's no reason to believe lifting and striking, both being achieved through the same power, would be differ for all mages other than Vita. That's something you have to prove. My reasoning works with less assumptions.
Full Drive/Limit Break are called as such for a reason, It's a state of power that draws the utmost force from both mage and device and whose prolongued use can damage both. It was directly implied by Amy in A's and we finally seen the effects on StrikerS. Craf Eisen's limit break pushed it's power and durability to it's limits and it got the hammer eventually destroyed. Not due to a superior attack strenght but because Vita keep pushing him against an unflinching wall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VezSketch View Post
It is agreed Subaru doesn't have anything to suggest she's as strong as the captains, am I right?
Lol NO xD!

It depends, the captains are more powerfull than her because of flight capability, better reach, and bigger variety of spells and strategies. But strenght wise Subaru is just as strong of not stronger than most of them. Probably tied with Vita in being the two physically strongest members of Section Six.
__________________
May 29 2010-2014

...it won't be forgotten

~The ASFB~
Akiyoshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-23, 14:32   Link #246
VezSketch
Member
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Age: 24
Quote:
Full Drive/Limit Break are called as such for a reason, It's a state of power that draws the utmost force from both mage and device and whose prolongued use can damage both. It was directly implied by Amy in A's and we finally seen the effects on StrikerS.
Still doesn't mean it can only be achieved for a few seconds and Vita was using her Full Drive while fighting Zest (to my knowledge).

Quote:
Craf Eisen's limit break pushed it's power and durability to it's limits and it got the hammer eventually destroyed. Not due to a superior attack strenght but because Vita keep pushing him against an unflinching wall.
It got damaged because the engine was too durable, what are you even talking about?

Quote:
Let's take Precia Testarossa as another example. She powerfull as hell, already on Hayate's league and probably even more powerfull. Yet she barealy can hold herself in melee. Arf break her shields and give is about to give her a sound beating only stopped because she was distracted for a moment and Precia blasted her showing just how powerfull her bombardment spells are.
This is entirely baseless, we have no reason in canon to believe Precia is weak in melee. Arf used barrier break to pass through Precia's barrier (she also did the same to Vita's barrier in A's, derp). Know what you're talking about.

Quote:
It prove's Keroko's point, Nanoha's defensive magic is just that good and Vivio is just that much stronger than Subaru (she probably is much stronger than everyone anyway xDU).
It doesn't. Another example - on the roof, Nanoha specifically sets up field protection to block Vita's attack but still gets thrown back because of the force of the blow. Subaru's attack was grabbed by Nanoha without any protection other than her barrier jacket and was not physically moved by the blow at all. This is a much weaker than normal Nanoha, too.
VezSketch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-23, 14:41   Link #247
Akiyoshi
The Flame Crussader
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by VezSketch View Post
Still doesn't mean it can only be achieved for a few seconds and Vita was using her Full Drive while fighting Zest (to my knowledge).
Go and rewatch StrikerS because that's an utter lie.Vita didn't used her Limit Break against Zest. She used it only against the Cradles Engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
It got damaged because the engine was too durable, what are you even talking about?
Exactly. I just said it with cooler words xD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
This is entirely baseless, we have no reason in canon to believe Precia is weak in melee. Arf used barrier break to pass through Precia's barrier (she also did the same to Vita's barrier in A's, derp). Know what you're talking about.
Let's see:

Never demonstraed any skill in melee? Check.

Got smacked around by a familiar? Check.

Have an army of robots to defend herself despite being a SS-ranker? Check.

Got trounced by a melee specialist in the G.O.D. game stroryline and specifically referred by said specialist as beign a bad meele fighter? Check.

Sorry but evidence is against her xDU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
It doesn't. Another example - on the roof, Nanoha specifically sets up field protection to block Vita's attack but still gets thrown back because of the force of the blow. Subaru's attack was grabbed by Nanoha without any protection other than her barrier jacket and was not physically moved by the blow at all. This is a much weaker than normal Nanoha, too.
Yeah, because Nanoha have the exact same strenght after 10 years of training, suuure xDU
__________________
May 29 2010-2014

...it won't be forgotten

~The ASFB~
Akiyoshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-23, 14:51   Link #248
VezSketch
Member
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
Go and rewatch StrikerS because that's an utter lie.Vita didn't used her Limit Break against Zest. She used it only against the Cradles Engine.
Her full drive is her gigantform. I'm not talking about her Zerstorungsform that she used in the finale. Pretty sure there's a distinct between Full Drive and Limit Break, and if it isn't, Vita simply has two.

Quote:
Exactly. I just said it with cooler words xD
Really? LOL. Then be better with words, seriously.

Quote:
Let's see:

Never demonstraed any skill in melee? Check.

Got smacked around by a familiar? Check.

Have an army of robots to defend herself despite being a SS-ranker? Check.

Got trounced by a melee specialist in the G.O.D. game stroryline and specifically referred by said specialist as beign a bad meele fighter? Check.

Sorry but evidence is against her xDU
How any of that is supporting evidence for your case baffles me. She was not getting smacked around by Arf, the games aren't canon, having an army of robots means absolutely nothing, etc.

Quote:
Yeah, because Nanoha have the exact same strenght after 10 years of training, suuure xDU
Was not making a strength comparison, but Nanoha under a limiter is not as powerful as she was at the end of A's. Get real. Ten years later or not.

And Nanoha was also capable of fighting Vita physically in A's, kind of pokes another hole in this Nanoha is weak argument going on.
VezSketch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-23, 15:01   Link #249
Akiyoshi
The Flame Crussader
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by VezSketch View Post
Her full drive is her gigantform. I'm not talking about her Zerstorungsform that she used in the finale. Pretty sure there's a distinct between Full Drive and Limit Break, and if it isn't, Vita simply has two.
Wont' discuss this further until get official source on this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Really? LOL. Then be better with words, seriously.
My english skills are still improving, give me a break xDU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
How any of that is supporting evidence for your case baffles me. She was not getting smacked around by Arf, the games aren't canon, having an army of robots means absolutely nothing, etc.
You know? The fun part is this almost applies for every other SS-ranker in the series. Scaglietti and Hayate are both powerfull characters with lacking meele strenght/skill both have powerfull meele fighter defending them (Numbers/Gadget Drones and Wolkenritter/RF6) and both have evidence against their meele proficiency.

And by the way, G.O.D runs on an alternate universe under the same rules as the main storyline, and the story was written by Tsuzuki himself so, summing the canon evidence with that of the game's storyline seems to be an enough solid case against Precia's skill in meele xD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Was not making a strength comparison, but Nanoha under a limiter is not as powerful as she was at the end of A's. Get real. Tens year later or not.
Then we have some inconsistencies here. While S1 powerset Nanoha had serious troubles defending from Graf Eisen attacks. Easly StrikerS subaru was able to block it without struggling herself to death. Sure, Vita pushed Suabru away but didn't managed to break her protection spell which is also another good thing to take into consideration as Protection is a weaker defensive spell than Round Shiled which was the one Nanoha used to block Vita's hit. So yeah, Subaru managed to pull a better defense than S1 Nanoha with a weaker spell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VezSketch View Post
And Nanoha was also capable of fighting Vita physically in A's, kind of pokes another hole in this Nanoha is weak argument going on.
Quite the contrary, my friend. Nanoha fought Vita with the help of the enhaced Raising Heart with enhaced barrier jacket and enhaced defensive spells, her physical strenght is just the same as before it was her magic what got boosted and what allowed her to fight against Vita efficiently. If you're implying 9-year old Nanoha is physically stronger than Subaru, Erio or even Teana you're just stepping into the realm of sillyness xDU
__________________
May 29 2010-2014

...it won't be forgotten

~The ASFB~
Akiyoshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-23, 15:16   Link #250
VezSketch
Member
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
Wont' discuss this further until get official source on this.
From what I'm getting, Full Drive =/= Limit Break.

Quote:
My english skills are still improving, give me a break xDU
I was kidding, though, I wasn't aware english wasn't your first language. Fooled me, so I'd say they're pretty good.

Quote:
You know? The fun part is this almost applies for every other SS-ranker in the series. Scaglietti and Hayate are both powerfull characters with lacking meele strenght/skill both have powerfull meele fighter defending them (Numbers/Gadget Drones and Wolkenritter/RF6) and both have evidence against their meele proficiency.
Since when was Jail (that's who you mean, right?) a SS-Rank? I recall him blocking a strike from Fate ... that shit KO'd two S+ Rank Combat Cyborgs a little before that happened.

Quote:
And by the way, G.O.D runs on an alternate universe under the same rules as the main storyline, and the story was written by Tsuzuki himself so, summing the canon evidence with that of the game's storyline seems to be an enough solid case against Precia's skill in meele xD
It isn't canon, therefore it can't be used as evidence.

Quote:
While S1 powerset Nanoha had serious troubles defending from Graf Eisen attacks. Easly StrikerS subaru was able to block it without struggling herself to death. Sure, Vita pushed Suabru away but didn't managed to break her protection spell which is also another good thing to take into consideration as Protection is a weaker defensive spell than Round Shiled which was the one Nanoha used to block Vita's hit. So yeah, Subaru managed to pull a better defense than S1 Nanoha with a weaker spell.
My remembrance of earlier episodes in StrikerS is terrible due to how boring they were, but I'm pretty sure she was not getting hit full force from Vita. And weaker attacks have broken her defense and hurt her. You can't really compare the two situations.

Quote:
Quite the contrary, my friend. Nanoha fought Vita with the help of the enhaced Raising Heart with enhaced barrier jacket and enhaced defensive spells,
What's your point? She got stronger. You didn't actually address Nanoha participating in a physical struggle with Vita.

Quote:
her physical strenght is just the same as before it was her magic what got boosted and what allowed her to fight against Vita efficiently.
You know magic is what gives them their strength, right?

Quote:
If you're implying 9-year old Nanoha is physically stronger than Subaru, Erio or even Teana you're just stepping into the realm of sillyness xDU
You're beyond silly ... Surely they can clash with Reinforce and engage in physical struggles with Vita. What was I thinking?
VezSketch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-23, 23:35   Link #251
WarpObscura
Bibliophile
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: There's this dot on the world map...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin_Brett View Post
Ponies.
What does that have to do with Vita's characterisation?
__________________

Yo dawg, I heard you like QB...

Thanks MAEt for the av!
WarpObscura is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-24, 00:52   Link #252
Justin_Brett
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie
I could see them focusing more on making sure the pony's characterization was accurate, is all.
Justin_Brett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-24, 09:47   Link #253
WarpObscura
Bibliophile
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: There's this dot on the world map...
But what exactly is the problem? It can't be corrected if the author isn't made aware of the problem.
__________________

Yo dawg, I heard you like QB...

Thanks MAEt for the av!
WarpObscura is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-24, 13:57   Link #254
Akiyoshi
The Flame Crussader
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
From the Force Manga thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by VezSketch View Post
You can't write off direct feats as inconsistencies because they do not mesh with your idea of a series, especially when they happened towards the end of the season. Even the kinetic energy of a blast from Arf was more than enough to destroy a small town several times over. Nanoha also sealed a energy source that supported a multi-dimensional earthquake (was Lindy helping out when she did that, or was she done?) with something that wasn't even one of her stronger attacks. AAA and above mages just happen to be ridiculously powerful.

S2 even has more ridiculous things - Chrono freezing the ocean far past the horizon (dozens of kilometers) and then the combined attacks of Hayate, Nanoha, and Fate melting that ice entirely. Then you have this, an explosion with a size comparable to TSAB headquarters that was suppressed by a barrier. That's S Rank magic (besides Eternal Coffin) ... In StrikerS, Exelion Buster could match a S+ Rank attack in an AMF without the blaster system. Small town is kind of an understatement.
Heh, i don't really have anything to counter-argument that right now (maybe i just ran out of juice xD?). But now that you bring Chrono freezing the ocean you touched an interesting point. How related are a mage's power to his/her device? Most of the time devices act as extensions of mage's power, being tuned to work well with it and helping the mage by storing spells and support. But the Durandal case seems different, it seemed to be specifically designed with one type of magic in mind and with a specific spell for an specific goal instead of being made with a mage in mind. So, how much of Eternal Coffin is Chrono's achievement in reality? I really matter who shooted the spell? Lindy was about to use it as well in the MOVIE 2nd as depicted by the trailers, can anyone with enough mana output use Durandal and fire the Eternal Coffing with the same level of sucess? I'm saying this because Chrono is canonically weaker than the main cast power-wise.
__________________
May 29 2010-2014

...it won't be forgotten

~The ASFB~
Akiyoshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-24, 14:08   Link #255
VezSketch
Member
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Age: 24
Chrono (he matched Fate's Thunder Smasher and he had a stronger attack before getting Durandal) is pretty powerful in his own right. With Durandal, he was more powerful than Nanoha or Fate (Hayate, too ... probably) and implied to be the leader of his team when they had that mock battle against the Wolkenritter+Hayate at the end of the A's manga. Lindy is presumably very powerful. Eternal Coffin is the most impressive feat in the series by a mage, so it's difficult to say any 'ol Joe could've done it.
VezSketch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-24, 14:20   Link #256
Akiyoshi
The Flame Crussader
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Yeah, that's the point. It's stated by canon itself Chrono isn't as powerfull as Nanoha or Fate but shines trough skill rather than power. It has been demonstrated on S1 and A's with him making accurate ambuches, interventions, and excecuting strategies with perfect timing due to his great skill with shooting magic and binds of various types. He can be the leader of a group for other reasons aside of his power level. He's probably the best strategist among the A's cast (rivalled probably only by Teana) and have enough ability to outsmart skilled and more powerfull opponents like Fate.

Eternal Coffin is undoubtly a humongously powerfull spell which is why i'm questioning this. Was the device already programmed to do all preparations to shoot the spell? What kind of minimal mana-output level is required to fire it? We know Lindy is more than capable to do it (having enough magical power to counter attack Precia's interdimensional bombardement). Chrono's rank is AAA (augmented latter to AAA+), while not as powerfull as the Aces he seems to be pretty powerfull in his own right just as you said so i guess it's safe to assume Durandal at least require AAA-level of magical output to pull off Eternal Coffin.
__________________
May 29 2010-2014

...it won't be forgotten

~The ASFB~
Akiyoshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-08, 14:35   Link #257
Sunder the Gold
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
Eternal Coffin is undoubtly a humongously powerfull spell which is why i'm questioning this. Was the device already programmed to do all preparations to shoot the spell?
Durandal was specialized for that one single spell. Its entire purpose is to cast Eternal Coffin.

Even then, I've heard that it was necessary for Chrono to know freezing / elemental-manipulation magic to use it properly, which he fortunately did.
Sunder the Gold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-08, 14:38   Link #258
Sunder the Gold
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin_Brett View Post
Who's the author of that, Obscura? I think they forgot Vita's personality there for a second.
Read further into the story. Vita has apparently been getting in lots of practice with subterfuge and play-acting.
Sunder the Gold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-08, 14:49   Link #259
green-link94
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: mid-childa
You heard correctly.

Eternal Coffin
(A’s DVD6)
Freezing magic set in Durandal. By forcing the temperature in the area to extremely low levels, the purpose of this spell is not to cause death in any targets, but to freeze them completely. As one can tell from the name “Eternal Coffin”, when used on a normal living being, the target becomes frozen in a sleep-like state, until the freezing is counteracted by physical means (destruction, heat, etc).
Originally an advanced Over-S Rank spell, but because Durandal was tuned to specialize in freezing magic, and because Chrono himself had also easily handled the study and training for temperature manipulation and Mana conversion, Eternal Coffin was activated in its complete form
__________________
[url]http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.icon/signaturepics/sigpic165338_1.gif[/url
green-link94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-08, 16:22   Link #260
bhl88
Otaku Apprentice
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Unseen Horizon
Send a message via MSN to bhl88 Send a message via Yahoo to bhl88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
Let's see:

Never demonstraed any skill in melee? Check.

Got smacked around by a familiar? Check.

Have an army of robots to defend herself despite being a SS-ranker? Check.

Got trounced by a melee specialist in the G.O.D. game stroryline and specifically referred by said specialist as beign a bad meele fighter? Check.

Sorry but evidence is against her xDU
Sick in bed and coughing hard or is currently ill, check.

@Vez: He probably didn't have time for practicing melee while he was researching and gaining knowledge.

@Sunder: So all that was needed was to learn how to cast Eternal Coffin (is that only for sealing?)
__________________

Dang it Avalon, you c(XD LOL)-block Shirou and Reinforce, but don't protect his mind in other ways? What is wrong, you woman?
Friendship, be made! Magical power, gather! Starlight Breaker.... this world!
bhl88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:27.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
We use Silk.