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Old 2012-07-09, 11:48   Link #2021
SeijiSensei
AS Oji-kun
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orion View Post
But isn't a double center what's in the OP?
Yes, I pointed that out earlier. On the other hand, in the silhouetted performance during the ED, it seems pretty clear that Nagisa is center.

I really liked the lighting effects in this scene.
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Spoiler for end of 11:
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Last edited by SeijiSensei; 2012-07-09 at 12:29.
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Old 2012-07-09, 11:58   Link #2022
Random Wanderer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
Spoiler for end of 11:
Orine, not Yuuka. Yuuka was an ordinary girl who went to school, obsessed over idols, had crushes on boys, and did other ordinary girl type things.
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Old 2012-07-09, 12:07   Link #2023
Eisdrache
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Wanderer View Post
This isn't the way any of this is supposed to work. This isn't the person Yuuko was before she saw the kirara of succession. What happened to the girl who rescued Nagisa and Chieri, and encouraged them to follow their dreams? In the end, it looks like learning the truth about succession has actually shaken her far worse than it shook Takamina.

I don't care what you say about real-life idols. These girls are not supposed to be against each other. Given the purpose of 0048, this rivalry is ridiculous.
They are making Nagisa the next center nova right before her eyes which will absolutely crush her dream. It would be more unnatural for her not to react that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Wanderer View Post
Nagisa is being Acchan. Being in 0048 is enough for her. She doesn't want the spotlight. She doesn't think she deserves it, and she certainly doesn't think she can handle the pressure.

I think Chieri was trying to encourage her by reminding her that the others are there supporting her, but as always seems to happen when Chieri tries to encourage people, it came out sounding like a condemnation instead. Poor Chieri seems to have a severe penalty to her Diplomacy score.
She was given the solo role and there is nothing she can do about that. It is highly offensive to the other members who are singing with you not to give your best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Wanderer View Post
Give her a break. How would you expect her to react? The first news she hears about her family since she ran away is that her father's been arrested by the same people who've been trying to kill her all that time? Even an adult would probably not be able to think clearly when they heard that, let alone a 13-year-old girl.
The point is that Nagisa always reacts like that. After the 3rd or 4th time you would expect her to learn something.
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Old 2012-07-09, 12:10   Link #2024
mochichan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
No he really didn't like the whole idol thing. I think he said that after Yuuka left he trying to find out more about the group and ended up getting hooked.
Sound like me...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisdrache View Post

As for the episode:
Nagisa being useless (why am I singing this song?? why isn't it someone else?? As Chieri said, this is unacceptable. Why did you even join AKB? To be in the
Nagisa is pulling an Acchan.



There's a reason why Okada made it like that.

BTW...these things..OMFG..I want them



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Old 2012-07-09, 12:11   Link #2025
Kazu-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Wanderer View Post
Nagisa being chosen for a solo in "Nagisa no Cherry" is almost certainly yet another shout-out to the real Acchan.
More like a complete rip-off than a shout-out. And its hilarious because it doesn't even fit thematically speaking. Acchan was chosen because being the least idol-like girl of the group made her perfect front girl for Akimoto's concept of imperfect idols who need to work hard to get better. There's no such concept going on in 00 so Nagisa being chosen comes down to S4's whims (and being the MC).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Wanderer View Post
This isn't the way any of this is supposed to work. This isn't the person Yuuko was before she saw the kirara of succession. What happened to the girl who rescued Nagisa and Chieri, and encouraged them to follow their dreams? In the end, it looks like learning the truth about succession has actually shaken her far worse than it shook Takamina.

I don't care what you say about real-life idols. These girls are not supposed to be against each other. Given the purpose of 0048, this rivalry is ridiculous.
It's not ridiculous at all. You're projecting your expectations on how the group should be, but it's made pretty clear these girls have their own reasons to be there, and fighting against the oppression is not one of them, even if they know they have to do it anyway. They admire AKB, they want to be on stage, they want to "shine". That's their dream.

And I personally don't think Yuuko is doing anything wrong here. The way 00 is now, with this shady S4 guy calling all the shots, is way too arbitrary. That kind of management failed in the real AKB, and it would be cool to see it fail in the series too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Wanderer View Post
Nagisa is being Acchan. Being in 0048 is enough for her. She doesn't want the spotlight. She doesn't think she deserves it, and she certainly doesn't think she can handle the pressure.
Except Acchan really was totally untalented and unskilled at that time (she was ugly as hell too, but that's beside the point), so she had a lot of reasons to freak out about being center. Nagisa on the other hand does have some skills, enough to put a decent performance if she gets into it at least, and that's all everyone is asking for. The reason she's been a drama queen is because she realized that she was wrong. She was chosen over all the other girls. She won, they lost. A now she won't be able to move on until she accepts that reality.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Wanderer View Post
I think Chieri was trying to encourage her by reminding her that the others are there supporting her, but as always seems to happen when Chieri tries to encourage people, it came out sounding like a condemnation instead. Poor Chieri seems to have a severe penalty to her Diplomacy score.
I wonder what Chieri is gonna do. What she said at first came out like she had giving up in overtaking Nagisa. But after seeing Yuuko practicing so hard even though she won't be playing that song something in Chieri might have changed. But I'm not sure right now, and I'm kinda worry that Okada might no have a clue what to do with Chieri at this point so we'll see.... in fact the writing in this episode was generally lacking so I wouldn't be surprised if everything start to fall apart now. Okada has a track record of screwing up in crucial moments after all.
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2012-07-09 at 12:58.
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Old 2012-07-09, 12:29   Link #2026
SeijiSensei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Wanderer View Post
Orine, not Yuuka.
Sorry. I know the difference between them, I just used the wrong name. I'll fix the original.
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Old 2012-07-09, 13:19   Link #2027
Random Wanderer
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Quote:
There's no such concept going on in 00 so Nagisa being chosen comes down to S4's whims (and being the MC).
Actually, I expect Nagisa was chosen for that position based on Tsubasa's whims, rather than Sensei-Sensei's. She's trying to push for another center nova incident so she can find out what happened to Acchan, remember?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
It's not ridiculous at all. You're projecting your expectations on how the group should be
I'm acknowledging that the situation in the universe, and the reasoning under which the group was created and performs, are entirely different from the situation in the real world, and I'm expecting that people's behavior should change accordingly.

One thing that the early episodes made clear was that everyone there shares a willingness to protect and foster the dreams of others. It was for that purpose that our trainees were willing to sacrifice their lives in an uneven battle in episode 3, so that a concert which would bring hope to the lives of others could proceed safely. That is the fundamental purpose of AKB0048. Each of them have other interests and desires, but that one is the core. The fact that they hold that as their core belief is why they were chosen to join.

Quote:
The reason she's been a drama queen is because she realized that she was wrong. She was chosen over all the other girls. She won, they lost. A now she won't be able to move on until she accepts that reality.
Now who's projecting their own expectations onto the show? Your statement is not particularly supported by any evidence within the show. It hasn't been disproven yet, but it still isn't supported. You're not going to convince me until the show gives some supporting evidence.

Quote:
And I personally don't think Yuuko is doing anything wrong here. The way 00 is now, with this shady S4 guy calling all the shots, is way too arbitrary. That kind of management failed in the real AKB, and it would be cool to see it fail in the series too.
Maybe. I don't think Yuuko's necessarily wrong in what she's doing, but more in why she's doing it. Or rather, what she's feeling while doing it. She's angry, she's hurt, she's out of harmony with the rest of the group. She can't give her best performance in that condition. That's where she's going wrong. Her desire to become center and her determination to learn the new song regardless aren't wrong in and of themselves. It's the disharmony in her mind that's a problem.

I can't speak for needing changes in the management structure. I don't know what happened with real-life AKB.

Quote:
in fact the writing in this episode was generally lacking so I wouldn't be surprised if everything start to fall apart now. Okada has a track record of screwing up in crucial moments after all.
So... whenever things happen that you don't like, it must be because of bad writing and a failure on the part of the creators? Maybe what they intend is simply different from what you have in mind. That doesn't make it a writing failure.
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Old 2012-07-09, 13:25   Link #2028
Kazu-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Wanderer View Post
So... whenever things happen that you don't like, it must be because of bad writing and a failure on the part of the creators?
How would you know. Most of my previous post was a reply to yours. I really didn't explain what I thought was wrong with the writing yet so don't go assuming you know what I was thinking.
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Old 2012-07-09, 14:09   Link #2029
Random Wanderer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
How would you know. Most of my previous post was a reply to yours. I really didn't explain what I thought was wrong with the writing yet so don't go assuming you know what I was thinking.
I'm judging based on the fact that I have seen you repeatedly say, when something happens in this series that doesn't make sense to you, that the show's creators must have screwed up. It is a conclusion you have seemed quick to jump to as this show has been airing. I am not trying to insult you, although (like Chieri) I have trouble phrasing what I'm trying to say so it comes out the way I mean it. It merely seems to me that you are quick to assume an error on someone's part, when from my perspective we don't know enough to properly make that judgement. And so, drawing from that conclusion, I tried suggesting that the creators could be trying to do something different from what you might be expecting, rather than just screwing things up. I was hoping I could help you broaden your perspective and consider other possibilities. I was not trying to being insulting, and I apologize if it came across that way.
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Old 2012-07-09, 14:21   Link #2030
Kazu-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Wanderer View Post
I was not trying to being insulting, and I apologize if it came across that way.
Just don't do it again.

And also this

Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Wanderer View Post
when something happens in this series that doesn't make sense to you, that the show's creators must have screwed up.
If something doesn't make sense, it's most likely a writing issue. I don't know how much you know about writing but that's a logical conclusion to make.


Now let's stop spamming the thread and move on.

EDIT:

Spoiler for NSFW:
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Old 2012-07-09, 14:31   Link #2031
Bombo
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Mamoru The Traitor is the best in this episode hahahahaa
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Old 2012-07-09, 15:27   Link #2032
mochichan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Except Acchan really was totally untalented and unskilled at that time (she was ugly as hell too, but that's beside the point)
...........................................:eyebro w:

An idol is never ugly.
An idol is always kawaii desu~
Beside even back then, she still have a cute smile

And Nagisa is imperfect tho. She doesn't have alot of qualities that stand out. We haven't heard her being praise much. She is pretty average. If this group is AKB in the future, chances are they still have the same similar concept going.

And..in AKB, AkiP is still the head too and isn't AKB management doing fine? The management is still doing w/e the hell they want. Team Shuffle in 09 even tho there's nothing wrong with the teams, Team transfer of SKE Jurina and NMB Milky randomly, Sashihara's still have fans despite her scandal....AKB still selling millions..failing?
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Old 2012-07-09, 15:32   Link #2033
FlareKnight
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Not exactly surprised that Mamoru picked anyone else to be a fan of besides Yuuka. Could just look at it that he doesn't want to just be her fan. That's not the kind of relationship they had. Maybe just wants to create that distinction. Of course good luck giving Yuuka that theory . She's got the demon eyes on everyone around him right now .

Oh the irony of Orine possibly being killed by a machine she helped create. Of course she needed a job to support herself and on a world like that she probably didn't have many options. Kind of weird though to know that a nice girl like Orine and some nice old ladies were helping to make death machines. Feelings really don't make it into some creations. I'm sure she'll be fine, though for a moment though the old ladies had highjacked a machine to come and help Orine out .

Things are getting stressful. Kanata getting too carried away with what Takamina was telling her. Doesn't have to force things. But really that's just part of the entire disharmony. Right now 0048 needs a miracle more than the planet does. Yuuko's frustrated both by still not reaching the center nova position, the successor Kirara, and now this new song business.

Have to agree that Chieri's diplomacy is terrible. She'd be sent in to calm some people down and instead she'd start a war. No matter her intentions the words just help set things off.
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Old 2012-07-09, 15:34   Link #2034
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@Kazu-kun @Random Wonderer: chill, 'cause it's her birthday today.
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Old 2012-07-09, 15:44   Link #2035
Kazu-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mochichan View Post
And..in AKB, AkiP is still the head too and isn't AKB management doing fine?
The way they managed the group changed. At first Akimoto called all the shots, now a lot is decided by the fans through popularity contests. That way it's a lot less arbitrary, which help the girls have a more clear view on what they can do to be more successful/popular.

Yuuko, Chieri and the others are so confused because they are pushed around by S4 and the kiraras. And the worst is that they don't even know what is the standard S4 and kirara use to select the girls, so they don't know what to do to be more successful.

These idols are going blind because, besides being really arbitrary their "management" is shrouded in mystery.
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2012-07-09 at 15:56.
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Old 2012-07-09, 16:54   Link #2036
mochichan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
The way they managed the group changed. At first Akimoto called all the shots, now a lot is decided by the fans through popularity contests. That way it's a lot less arbitrary, which help the girls have a more clear view on what they can do to be more successful/popular.

Yuuko, Chieri and the others are so confused because they are pushed around by S4 and the kiraras. And the worst is that they don't even know what is the standard S4 and kirara use to select the girls, so they don't know what to do to be more successful.

These idols are going blind because, besides being really arbitrary their "management" is shrouded in mystery.
LOL but even if the fans vote for senbatsu and have certain say in the process, the management still decide the line up for the rest of the year.... :| Sato Amina was voted 8th for Iiwake and is a fan favorite but barely get promoted. The management still push whoever they want, like Kaoru Mitsumune who can't even make it into the 64th senbatsu, tho considering Kaoru image, it's probably much better to promote AKB mainstream with an ex-model anyway.

I agree about the idols in the anime not knowing what's going on but the real AkiP is pretty troll-ish so no wonder S4 is this unpredictable character.
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Old 2012-07-09, 17:03   Link #2037
DragoonKain3
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Oooh, Mamoru being the ex crush of Yuuka, who supposedly hates AK0048 but became Suzuko's fan, and now he's hanging out with a girl named Aoi? I love you Okada; you and your intricate love polygons. XD

As someone who's a Chieri fanatic, can't say I like Nagisa now being pushed to become centre. Saw it a mile coming, but doesn't mean I have to agree with it.
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Old 2012-07-09, 17:24   Link #2038
Kazu-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mochichan View Post
S4 is this unpredictable character.
It's not about being unpredictable. Ultimately Akimoto is human (and a business man at that) so you can guess to some extent where he's coming from if you put some thought into it. S4 and the kirara on the other hand are.... well, we don't know what they are, so there's no way to know what they base their decisions on.

Then again, this is why it is the perfect (and cheapest) plot device. Since we don't know what makes S4 ticks Okada can pull off whatever she wants without explaining or justifying anything. "It's magic, I ain't gonna explain shit".
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Old 2012-07-09, 18:10   Link #2039
SeijiSensei
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I know this is too much to ask, but could we spend more time discussing the anime itself and have fewer arguments about the real-world AKB48? It's really tiresome for someone like me who cares not a whit about them and is only interested in the show itself.
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Old 2012-07-09, 18:49   Link #2040
Chiaki_chan
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ho not because of that boy there will be more "scene" yuri ? me I have nothing to fuck her boyfriend pfff
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