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Old 2012-07-08, 11:39   Link #29581
Thunder Book
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What's the Ghoda circus theory? It sounds amazing based on the name.

Last edited by Thunder Book; 2012-07-09 at 15:16. Reason: Agh terrible typo :(
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Old 2012-07-08, 12:16   Link #29582
Xenon_gun
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Well, it's not a long theory, just a random shot at a solution for Episode 2. Here's the link:

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...96#post2477596
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Old 2012-07-08, 13:44   Link #29583
jjblue1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
As for Requiem... I think it was pretty obviously written by Touya but not released. From the first scenes of Requiem:

BATTLER: "......This is... the unique tale I made for you."
This tale will be shut up with you in your coffin, for all eternity
So, no one will be able to read it except for you, there in your coffin.
[...]
"......Between just me and her, ...just the two of us, this is the one and only certain truth."
In the manga the tale placed in Beato's grave is Dawn, not Requiem.
It's true that the manga might differ in terms of canon with the novel, but Ryukishi said he would give hints through it and Dawn too was written by Battler. That's true Ikuko let Ange read it but it's in a meta scene. And Will read Battler's tale as he commented it was the funnier (or something like that).

I'll say in order to write Requiem, Yasu's help is needed so either Yasu is Ikuko and she helped Toya write it or, before dying, Yasu passed a huge amount of info on her life to Battler... Otherwise Requiem is a speculation on Yasu's life way huger than Ep 4 might be on Ange's life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ndqanh_vn View Post
And isn't Yasu/Beatrice's aim is always for Battler to remember? So if he remembers and know the truth (ep 5 infamous:"And...I understand") doesn't it mean she already win?
Yes but she's... acting childishly about it. She's sort of like a kid who wants a certain toy as a present but doesn't want to tell her parents which toy it is and challenge them to guess it, thinking that their guessing right will prove they love her.

There's the risk they won't guess right and the fact they failed will bring her to a 'Pyrrhic victory'. Yes, they couldn't guess what she wanted but hey, she didn't got what she wanted... though to her getting it merely by telling them what she wants would be meaningless as well as it would prove nothing.

Though some people in a love relation do the same saying to their loved one things like: 'if you truly loved me you would know what I want/think right now' so maybe it fits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ndqanh_vn View Post
This is some seperate issue but I don't quite get the "for world peace" thing in Amakusa and Okonogi.
Is that because they're afraid that the truth about the Italian submarines is annouced? Honestly I don't think she could find the gold or find any trace for the submarine story, which could be true or not.
In the same vein, I don't get why Amasuka has to kill Ange, too. The only way Ange is not killed is for her to abandon the fortune. It is quite irony then that the guy who kept speaking about LOVE ends up killing her for money, so I never took that theory serious.
I thought it was some sort of excuse supposed to mean they didn't want people to argue over the company ownership. If I'm not wrong it was said in Ep 8 that when Ange inherited the business people weren't exactly pleased of this and of how she was handling things. It might seem mean but they likely feared for the company to fail and they didn't want to end up in a situation like the one in which the siblings were in 1986.
So getting rid of Ange and the Sumadera who are 'a threat' to the Ushiromiya group would 'bring peace' among the Ushiromiya group.

Though this is only my interpretation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
So, why is it that Ange is referred to as "Ange-Beatrice" and "The Witch of Resurrection"? It's something I've kind of wondered about for a long time and I'd like to hear peoples' thoughts on it.
I thought one got the title of Beatrice by inheriting the gold/headship... this is what happened to Yasu, who in Ep 7 says something about having become Beatrice for real once she found the gold, Eva, who became Eva-Beatrice when she found the gold and became its owner and Ange, who inherited everything from Eva... though the thing might be tied to the gameboard as well. Beato controls it, Eva Beatrice takes her place in game 3 and Ange Beatrice can use magic in Beato's golden land in which only her magic should work... though AngeBeatrice can't hand to Battler the solution to Beato's gameboard and Eva Beatrice was 'beaten' by Beato so maybe the gameboard is more Beato's domain than the other Beatrice's.

On a sidenote... someone told me that when Battler became the golden wizard he also became a 'Beatrice' but I can't find it in the text... someone can confirm/deny this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by UsagiTenpura View Post
Edit : Ending up expanding on this. Maria in arc 7 denies the events between her and Ange mentioned by Ange in arc 4. Isn't there a chance Maria from arc 7 is right? I guess I'm proposing this :
Wait, where? I can't remember...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drifloon View Post
Hm, there seems to be some kind of 'battle' going on between the Shkanontrice supporters and the KnownNoMore supporters on /seacats/ right now.

Though it just seems to be the same repeated arguments over the logic error and the EP3 first twilight that always seem to happen.
There's to say KnowNoMore got a huge fanbase if he has supporters who're willing to fight the official theory...



And sorry for replying only now to some old threads but I just got back from Rome and there I didn't have the pc... ^_^;;;
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Old 2012-07-08, 14:06   Link #29584
Thunder Book
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenon_gun View Post
Well, it's not a long theory, just a random shot at a solution for Episode 2. Here's the link:

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...96#post2477596
Aw, I expected Evil Circus Master Ghoda, commanding animals to perform serial murders.
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Old 2012-07-09, 04:29   Link #29585
Kiltias
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I'm probably the only one who thinks this but how is the possibility that there is no real killer?

What I'm trying to go at is that is this:
There is more than 1 Killer.

For those who want an explanation:
Spoiler for 1st Game.:


However as for the second game, I cannot think else except it was someone else.
Spoiler for Game 2:


Game 3:
Again a nice scenario:
Spoiler for Game 3:


I'm currently working at the next game.

However I my reasoning is this:
Spoiler for What I think.:

At least for now as I still work on the others.

Last edited by Kiltias; 2012-07-09 at 04:39.
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Old 2012-07-09, 05:40   Link #29586
AuraTwilight
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...That violates so many reds I literally don't know where to start. Holy shit.
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Old 2012-07-09, 07:41   Link #29587
Kiltias
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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
...That violates so many reds I literally don't know where to start. Holy shit.
I read through every single red truth up until I stopped writing.Nothing violates the red.If anything you misinterpret it as they are a the truth yet still vague statements as they can have multiple explanations.
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Old 2012-07-09, 08:25   Link #29588
LyricalAura
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Your theory has several places where people who were pronounced dead with red truth continue moving around and doing things afterwards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiltias View Post
2nd Twilight:
Victim: Jessica
Killed by Kanon who once again faked his death,
A keypoint is this:
Kanon fell once again to the stake of Wrath.

4-6 Twilight:
Victims: George,Shannon and Gohda.
It should have been easy to do this when Kanon was alive.All he had to do was Gohda to open the door."Help me...."
Especially with the aid of the other servants.
At the second twilight, Kanon was killed in Jessica's room.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiltias View Post
4-6th:
Victims:
Rudolph,Kyrie and Hideyoshi.
Keypoint here:
Kyrie thought the food was unncessary and shouldn't leave the guesthouse yet she did for an unexplained reason.
I propose this:
Maria and Rosa were not killed by the Kanon and Shannon due to the lack of the stakes as in this game there are only 5 stakes used.
So their murder had nothing to do with Beatrice.
Infact I propose Kyrie and Rudolph to be their killers.
As for the reason, the money and it explains why Kyrie suddenly wanted to leave.
And yes for those wondering, I am saying Rosa and Kyries murder took place at a different time.
That being:
The 3 went to the Guesthouse.
While Hideyoshi was kept buse they went for Rosa and Maria.
Followed by the murder of Hideyoshi.
As for the lack of stakes:
Symbolism again:
Kyrie and Rudolph taking down Leviathan and Belphegor symbolized that they took down the ritual.
Incidentally:
This is where Kanon and Shannon come in and are the ones who killed Kyrie and Rudolph and
As of a little after the first twilight, Shannon and Kanon were dead. They died instantly. Also, it looks like you're saying that Maria and Rosa were killed while Hideyoshi was at the mansion, but they were dead before Hideyoshi's group left the guesthouse.

In your theory, why do Kyrie and Rudolf believe they can get money by killing everyone?
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Old 2012-07-09, 12:56   Link #29589
Wanderer
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Aside from not accounting for the Kanon, Shannon is dead reds,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiltias View Post
4-6 Twilight:
Victims: George,Shannon and Gohda.
It should have been easy to do this when Kanon was alive.All he had to do was Gohda to open the door."Help me...."
Especially with the aid of the other servants.
You're forgetting that the difficulty with closed rooms isn't just getting into them, but also getting out them while keeping them closed. You could say that Kanon was hiding in it (which you didn't), but even then it really doesn't jive well with Will's explanation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiltias View Post
Again who are last:
Nanjo and Kumasawa.
Killed at the servant room by a crazed Kanon.
Again his sudden resurrection and playing with his wound could have meant he never died and faked it again.And again he ambushed Kumasawa and Nanjo but was chased away by Genji who didn't say a thing as he was involved himself.
Again, closed room. How did the corpses leave the servants' room?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiltias View Post
This time Kanon and Shannon working together thus breaking the locked door cycle.However I am sure one betrayed the other.
Why would they even need to work together? All it takes is one faker or planted key from an outsider and the whole system is destroyed.
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Old 2012-07-09, 15:59   Link #29590
Thunder Book
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So I was looking over the Ep 8 thread, and someone mentioned that in the Riddle Games, George and Jessica give you a single puzzle worth two medals. There are 16 riddles in that game, but 17 medals total.

So was this supposed to be yet another ShKanon hint (Not really sure how it would help anyone who didn't already feel that that was the answer), or just a coincidence?
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Old 2012-07-09, 17:14   Link #29591
Jan-Poo
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It would have worked better if it was Kanon and Shannon giving a single riddle. I'm not sure if that can really be seen as a shkanon hint, not like it would change anything anyway.
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Old 2012-07-09, 18:27   Link #29592
AuraTwilight
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Obviously it was a hint towards Jessiceorge.

Where's the prove that they're really separate people, anyway?

I don't know, guys, we've already got precedent for Yasu martyring other people's sins on her own shoulders. What if she's covering up for her lover's split personality bullshit?
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Old 2012-07-09, 20:47   Link #29593
Jan-Poo
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How could I have missed that?! Kanon and Shannon are just the different personalities that Yasu had to create to be with Jessiceorge and keep loving her/him despite the constant switches!

And that scene in EP4 where you see George and Jessica killing each other clearly symbolises an internal battle between the two personalities over the control of their bodies which concludes in a suicide! In fact those who actually fight against each other in EP6 are indeed George and Jessica! But Yasu since s\he loves her\him so much rather took that burden on herself! It's perfect!
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Old 2012-07-09, 20:48   Link #29594
Thunder Book
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
It would have worked better if it was Kanon and Shannon giving a single riddle. I'm not sure if that can really be seen as a shkanon hint, not like it would change anything anyway.
Yeah, I guess it really wouldn't change anything.

Honestly the whole random quiz game is something that really bothers me the more I think about it in retrospect. It doesn't seem to function as anything really other than a cheap way to resolve plot elements from the other Episodes (And only if you answer the riddle correctly at that). This kind of extends to Bern's game too. They were cool or whatever at the time, but really a large chunk of Episode 8's first half feels like a bit of a waste.
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Old 2012-07-09, 20:55   Link #29595
Kealym
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Oh, why's that, Thunder Book?

It seemed to me that Ryu was just trying to patch up some plot things, i.e "Oh btw, I switched dem babies 'round. So ... yeah."
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Old 2012-07-09, 20:58   Link #29596
Thunder Book
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I guess I just kind of feel like that if a plot thread is just going to be resolved in a way like that, then it really makes me wonder why it's in the story to begin with.

Like really, did the Rudolf baby thing matter too much in the grand scheme of things?
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Old 2012-07-09, 23:58   Link #29597
AuraTwilight
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It didn't. But it was a plot twist he brought up in EP4 to shake things up, and he felt like it should be wrapped up so it didn't distract from what was really important.
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Old 2012-07-10, 02:00   Link #29598
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Sorry to be out of left field, but you guys recall Battler's revival near the end of End, yeah? When he became territory lord and took Erika to stabby-town?

Well, Erika only "lost" that game in the sense that her theory became one of multiple possible theories - a draw, as stated. Her grief there was mostly that she had to change her original theory at all, since she couldn't use Kinzo to remove the First Twilight corpses. ... ... any idea what the heck revision she had made at that point? The only thing we're told about it is that everyone seemed to agree it was "shabby".

I also just noticed that Dlanor's announcement about having to prove Kinzo's corpse was in blue, so it was essentially a blue truth stating This blue truth can't be refuted by a red truth!, the logical answer to which is probably lolwut are you even saying?
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Old 2012-07-10, 02:05   Link #29599
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I thought the puzzle section was the most beautiful part of EP8. A way of saying goodbye to all the characters. Their little scenes after each puzzle made me really realise how much I'd grown to love all of them.

I always wondered what Erika's theory about the corpses was too. It was like Ryukishi couldn't think of one or something, so he just didn't include it.
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Old 2012-07-10, 03:05   Link #29600
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Quote:
any idea what the heck revision she had made at that point? The only thing we're told about it is that everyone seemed to agree it was "shabby".
It's never stated.
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