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Old 2012-07-08, 15:58   Link #121
Vicious108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solafighter View Post
I have seen it so often, that many people were like "trailer looks bad, movie is gonna be bad" but most of them loved the movie after watching it.

Its just a teaser-trailer. Just wait and see.
Or that means absolutely nothing, because I thought the trailer for 2.0 looked great (it actually focused on, you know, characters, instead of just pew pew lasers), yet found the movie to be quite bad.

And like I said before, nobody's passing judgment on the final product yet and everyone is well aware of the fact that it is just a trailer. I'll be the first to rejoice if the final product proves my low expectations based the trailer (and 2.0) wrong. I just highly doubt that will happen.

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Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
Right back atcha!

(And, er...don't you mean NGE...? Or are you making a joke that I'm not getting...?)
NME = (Evangelion) New Movie Edition. I believe it's how Rebuild is usually referred to in Japan.

And nobody's saying the trailer was bad because of the way it was presented. It was all about its contents, which perfectly demonstrated Rebuild's terrible priorities and tendencies.
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Old 2012-07-08, 19:41   Link #122
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People here might find http://www.gwern.net/docs/eva/1996-n...anno-interview interesting; it's a translation of an Anno interview I just posted.
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Old 2012-07-09, 04:56   Link #123
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Originally Posted by Endless Twilight View Post
And nobody's saying the trailer was bad because of the way it was presented. It was all about its contents, which perfectly demonstrated Rebuild's terrible priorities and tendencies.
Sorry, I still don't get it. All I saw in the preview for Q was Asuka kicking ass.

We like Asuka kicking ass, don't we?
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Old 2012-07-09, 04:56   Link #124
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About Rebuild!Asuka, I honestly prefer her characterization in the TV Series just because her romantic feelings were ambiguous and she didn't look like a typical Tsundere shit showing an obvious attraction to the male lead. The TVseries! Asuka was the kind of character who does not really rely on romance build-up and was so independent. She had stood on her own as a character without Shinji around. And how her inner feeling were presented, it was much better.

Here, in the movies, I don't really fancy her blatant fawning of Shinji. It makes me sick DX The only thing that restrains me from hating her and seeing her as someone shitty as those shitty tsunderes was she's still the Asuka I know. Although that has more to do that she's physically 100% her ans she's still kickass. I'm 50-50 with her romantic characterization.

The Rei/Shinji has always had the stronger emotional bond than Asuka/Shinji since the TVSeries although it was plainly platonic. And seeing their relationship in Rebuild made me question what really are they to each other. To be honest, even though I'm Team!Asuka, I find Rei/Shinji more logical. And with that, maybe I can finally have my Asuka/Mari endgame lol.
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Old 2012-07-09, 11:16   Link #125
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Dude, did you even watch TV Evangelion? Asuka was always a Tsundere for Shinji even before she got to know him, the movie didn't suddenly change her character in a drastic way. All they did was take out a lot of the angst and made her realize sooner that she's really interested in him instead of dragging out them being worried about their feelings for each other or if the other is even interested for multiple episodes. Which goes back to the whole time allotment issue. They can't spend 20-30 minutes or an hour or so with Asuka and Shinji's relationship building up and their inability to communicate their feelings to each other. They have enough stuff on their plate.
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Old 2012-07-09, 11:56   Link #126
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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Dude, did you even watch TV Evangelion? Asuka was always a Tsundere for Shinji even before she got to know him, the movie didn't suddenly change her character in a drastic way. All they did was take out a lot of the angst and made her realize sooner that she's really interested in him instead of dragging out them being worried about their feelings for each other or if the other is even interested for multiple episodes.
Are you seriously asking me that question? No, Asuka was rude to him, but her dere for him in the TV series was not overt unlike here in Rebuild. They actually took out the best about her from the series and made her appear like a generic lovestruck tsundere here. It's not really drag, it was just that the feelings were not obvious.

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Which goes back to the whole time allotment issue. They can't spend 20-30 minutes or an hour or so with Asuka and Shinji's relationship building up and their inability to communicate their feelings to each other. They have enough stuff on their plate.

Shinji was not even as attracted to Asuka in the Rebuild as in the TVSeries. Meaning, the romantic side was mainly coming from Rebuild!Asuka's side which was something I prefer to have been handled differently. They could have handled Rebuild!Asuka's dere in a diverse way even with just the short span of the films.
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Old 2012-07-09, 16:23   Link #127
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Yea, I think I agree with BakaBaka over here. The characters' intentions and feelings in the series had extra layers of subtlety while the movie is rather straightforward, heading on generic. Though, it should be noted that the movie is clearly making an effort to minimize the Asuka-Shinji thing for whatever reasons.
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Old 2012-07-10, 00:41   Link #128
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Yes I'm seriously asking you because you're clearly stuck wearing nostalgia glasses. Asuka in the movie isn't a vastly different character. All they did was cut down on the time to for the pair to be very interested in each other. Shinji is attracted to Asuka in the movies, it isn't all just Asuka that wants more. Shinji is shown to be just as interested in her in their short time together. Not to mention he attempts to kill his own father and destroy NERV in a fit of rage and sadness when he's forced to fight and injury/kill Asuka while in the show Shinji just cried when Toji was severely injured/killed.

Than I point back to my other point. Time allotment. This isn't a TV Series, it's an OVA/Movie series. Even with 4 movies that's still nowhere near the same amount of time as a full fledged TV series.

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Old 2012-07-10, 03:28   Link #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Yes I'm seriously asking you because you're clearly stuck wearing nostalgia glasses. Asuka in the movie isn't a vastly different character. All they did was cut down on the time to for the pair to be very interested in each other. Shinji is attracted to Asuka in the movies, it isn't all just Asuka that wants more. Shinji is shown to be just as interested in her in their short time together. Not to mention he attempts to kill his own father and destroy NERV in a fit of rage and sadness when he's forced to fight and injury/kill Asuka while in the show Shinji just cried when Toji was severely injured/killed.

Than I point back to my other point. Time allotment. This isn't a TV Series, it's an OVA/Movie series. Even with 4 movies that's still nowhere near the same amount of time as a full fledged TV series.
I understand that the movie format doesn't allow for the same development. But no, I wouldn't say that it's the same at all. You're saying that it's the same but cut down. In my opinion, it was way more than that. It was stripped away. The concept is the same, the reasons why it happened, are completely off.

The Toji incident in the original series had a larger impact, because the anime spent its entire length up to that pointexpanding on their relationship. The relationship between Toji and Shinji, which started out hostile, but eventually matured into a friendship, and Toji's desire to help his sister made the scene when Eva-01 was smashing 03 to be extremely heartbreaking. He's merely a minor character who didn't have that much screentime, but there was much sympathy to be felt, and much anger to be felt at Gendo and such. There was a reason to understand and rage along with Shinji.

With Asuka in the cockpit, the same effect remains in theory, but the effect is watered down. No longer is Asuka burdened with the motivation of attempting to prove herself by piloting Eva and getting over her troubles. Evangelion was based on the difficulty of communicating and connecting freely with others, and the entire Shinji/Asuka dynamic is reliant on such. But with her just zooming in and getting this minimal screentime creates a character that is shallower and we just haven't had the time to care about.

So, this goes beyond an issue of time. And, as for nostalgia glasses, well, why yes, but this goes beyond that. What I see in 2.0 is something that, well, doesn't resemble the series I very much enjoyed at all. The priorities are fundamentally different.

Oh, and no, I don't think the original series was any symbol of perfection. But when you take everything that I liked about it out and leave everything else in, well what's left is something disposable. Wait, let's not get into word semantics again.

Tl;DR Asuka Shikinami simply cannot provide enough value to warrant such emotional reaction and care with the lack of depth and focus. Cutting short something that was already on such fragile ground, proved ineffective.
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Old 2012-07-10, 06:24   Link #130
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Which goes back to the time allotment reason. They did the best they could with the time they had to invest on Asuka and Shinji. She wasn't around all that long after all so obviously it isn't going to feel like there's a whole lot of depth is in their relationship(Or any relationship really thus far in the Movies). They spent very little screentime together while the Movie acts like they Asuka has been around for a bit of time after her appearance. The third movie should provide more substance since Asuka seems to be playing a larger role. That and tv series fans already know that Asuka and Shinji liked each other when they first met, they just weren't all that obvious about it as quickly as the Movie versions.

Toji in the TV series had plenty of time and build up towards the scene, he was around for a number of episodes before than even if he's just a supporting cast member. So of course it's easier to feel bad for him, that still doesn't change that Shinji reacted far Asuka than he ever did for TV Toji.
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Old 2012-07-10, 09:01   Link #131
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I'm absolutely serious... If the preview shows how bad Rebuild is, how come the ENTIRE preview, as far as I can see, is Asuka kicking ass? NONE of the other characters show up at all!
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Old 2012-07-10, 16:50   Link #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Which goes back to the time allotment reason. They did the best they could with the time they had to invest on Asuka and Shinji. She wasn't around all that long after all so obviously it isn't going to feel like there's a whole lot of depth is in their relationship(Or any relationship really thus far in the Movies). They spent very little screentime together while the Movie acts like they Asuka has been around for a bit of time after her appearance. The third movie should provide more substance since Asuka seems to be playing a larger role. That and tv series fans already know that Asuka and Shinji liked each other when they first met, they just weren't all that obvious about it as quickly as the Movie versions.

Toji in the TV series had plenty of time and build up towards the scene, he was around for a number of episodes before than even if he's just a supporting cast member. So of course it's easier to feel bad for him, that still doesn't change that Shinji reacted far Asuka than he ever did for TV Toji.
I was discussing the time spent on development on relative terms. Toji's development was spread across the entire story, aka half of it! If it had been done the same way in the movies, it would be less time in absolute terms, but the amount of the story focused on it would still make it relevant. As I've said again, the priority and focus is simply off, causing Asuka to be half baked. It doesn't matter if the movies were 30 minutes long, or it were 30 hours long. And certainly, movies aren't inherently shallower, just because they are shorter. They don't have to be. All there is, is really excuses and justifications.

And I brought up Toji exactly because he was a minor character, and a minimal amount of time was required to establish the significance of his character. Hell, a lot of his scenes could be cut out and it wouldn't lose a single iota of depth. There really is no excuse for a major character like Asuka, and I certainly felt the movie wasted time on more pointless things (aka cooking contest, etc).

As for Shinji reacting far more for Asuka, well, that makes even less sense then, because the reasoning is weaker. Unless you are referring to EoE where she is literally the only person left for him, and of course that simply makes sense in itself with minimal explanation. This isn't the kind of stuff that needs the in depth exposition the show provided. Regardless, besides the most superficial aspects, I don't think it's the same at all.

Tl;DR: Simplifying things due to time constraints can reduce complexity and depth, but I would say it didn't have to be reduced to that degree.

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I'm absolutely serious... If the preview shows how bad Rebuild is, how come the ENTIRE preview, as far as I can see, is Asuka kicking ass? NONE of the other characters show up at all!
Asuka kicking ass and Rebuild being bad aren't mutually exclusive. It's really not one of the issues that people didn't like.
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Old 2012-07-10, 17:50   Link #133
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Besides a whole argument with why Rebuild 2.0 was bad was because it really should have been two separate movies. It was WAAAAAAAAAAAAY too rushed. No I don't buy that excuse.

It didn't need to be this rushed, they forced that on themselves. It literally has nothing to do with the movie format (And if it doesn't logistically fit well within in a movie format even making a movie in the first place was retarded).
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Old 2012-07-10, 21:12   Link #134
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Asuka kicking ass and Rebuild being bad aren't mutually exclusive. It's really not one of the issues that people didn't like.
So what DID people not like about the preview? Why did Reckoner say it looked bad? Why did Endless Twilight say it showed Rebuild's terrible priorities?
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Old 2012-07-10, 21:49   Link #135
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Uhm a preview is supposed to get you interested right? Well what was interesting to me about NGE was never flashy action, though it doesn't hurt by any means. So the trailer just didn't have anything I really cared about. No haunting psychological imagery, no interesting tid bits about the characters thoughts and feelings, etc. There's just nothing there for me.
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Old 2012-07-11, 00:46   Link #136
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Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
So what DID people not like about the preview? Why did Reckoner say it looked bad? Why did Endless Twilight say it showed Rebuild's terrible priorities?
I've already made the reasons for my disapproval of the trailer obvious enough in my first comment about it. All it shows is an overproduced action sequence that says absolutely nothing about the story or the characters, which perfectly illustrates Rebuild's disappointing popcorn entertainment nature, where needlessly long and frequent action scenes and mindless fanservice are prioritized over the psychoanalytical character study that made Evangelion a landmark in anime history.

And no, I'm not saying 3.0 is absolutely guaranteed to be like that because of the 25 seconds showcased in the preview, but the fact that they thought that sort of scene was the best way of promoting it does indicate that nothing will have changed in this third instalment and that they haven't learned from the mistakes made in 2.0.

Also, how and where exactly do you see Asuka "kicking ass"? She looks very much awkward and in trouble to me, not to mention you can barely even tell what's going out there anyway since the visuals are more bloated than the densest space combat sequences in the Star Wars prequels.

Not that that matters much anyway. Asuka was hardly a consistently effective pilot in the original series, but that doesn't matter, because the characters' physical feats are secondary to their psychological complexity and depth. Evangelion is a lot more about what's transpiring inside the characters' minds than about what's taking place on the outside. Rebuild is highly unappealing to me precisely because the former is so restricted, simplistic and uninteresting.
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Old 2012-07-12, 09:51   Link #137
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Fair enough.
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Old 2012-07-12, 22:32   Link #138
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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Yes I'm seriously asking you because you're clearly stuck wearing nostalgia glasses. Asuka in the movie isn't a vastly different character. All they did was cut down on the time to for the pair to be very interested in each other. Shinji is attracted to Asuka in the movies, it isn't all just Asuka that wants more. Shinji is shown to be just as interested in her in their short time together. Not to mention he attempts to kill his own father and destroy NERV in a fit of rage and sadness when he's forced to fight and injury/kill Asuka while in the show Shinji just cried when Toji was severely injured/killed.
I never said she was vastly different from her TV counterpart. She's still here, but not completely her. Maybe time allotment was a factor, but that didn't change the fact that she was altered from being subtle to overt; from awesome to generic. Yes, he was attracted to her, but not as much as he was in the TV series. And I have a hard time being convinced that the attraction was believable. I am not a Shinji/Rei fan, but they make more sense to me in the Rebuild.

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Than I point back to my other point. Time allotment. This isn't a TV Series, it's an OVA/Movie series. Even with 4 movies that's still nowhere near the same amount of time as a full fledged TV series.
Again, that would be just an excuse to justify the fact that Rebuild!Asuka is different to TV!Asuka. Thus, TV!Asuka is superior for me.
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Old 2012-07-12, 22:40   Link #139
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Than I point back to my other point. Time allotment. This isn't a TV Series, it's an OVA/Movie series. Even with 4 movies that's still nowhere near the same amount of time as a full fledged TV series.
You can't use this for justifying anything, half of those TV episode is filler.
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Old 2012-07-13, 14:40   Link #140
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You can't use this for justifying anything, half of those TV episode is filler.
You mean CHARACTER BUILDING, right?

There are no "filler" episodes of Eva. Each episode serves a distinct purpose. If you doubt me, give me an episode, I'll tell you its purpose.

Unless, of course, Reckoner says I'm wrong because, according to him, I'm not a "real" Eva fan.
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