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Old 2012-07-10, 13:51   Link #41
chaos_alfa
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Even without Orochimaru powers shouldn't Kabuto still be able to use Sennin mode?
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Old 2012-07-10, 14:14   Link #42
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Originally Posted by Mists View Post
I knew it, this manga is was called 'Sasuke' all along! Damn you Kishi. Naruto has no place in this manga lol
What are you talking about?? The story just recently started focusing on him some chapters back leading up this latest endeavor(which will obviously impact the main plot). Before that, he was gone for nearly 100 consecutive chapters, with the story focusing mainly on Naruto.

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Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
He reverse engineered the seal Kakashi used on him to stop the CS and created a new one for the exact opposite purpose. It's a rather impressive thing to do on the spot but then Sasuke is supposed to be a ridiculously talented ninja.
If he can reverse engineer the seal Kakashi used on him, perhaps he is planning to do the same with the Edo Tensei seal he learned? Or hopefully create a new interesting technique with the knowledge.

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Originally Posted by Rahan View Post
Orochimaru only got his chakra back, Kabuto is still at full strength, hence still stronger than Orochimaru.
With Oro taking his chakra from Kabuto, I don't think there is any way to really quantify the difference in their power. We don't know how much of Kabuto's power consisted of Oro's chakra, and we don't even know what Orochimaru really did --Juugo only said it seems like he only took his own chakra. I'm suspicious that he might have done something more because of the mental note "What is this strange sensation" present while he did what he did.
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Old 2012-07-10, 14:42   Link #43
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Old 2012-07-10, 16:36   Link #44
Ero-Senn1n
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I don't think there is such a thing as a real Orochimaru, it would be like saying there was only one real snakes in his body.
What Orochimaru did isn't very different than what Minato did for himself and Kushina in order to meet Naruto in the future except that with the power of the White Snake he went further and created a mechanism in the Cursed Seal allowing the creation of a new body to support his persona if need be.
But then what is the soul that is supposed to be unique, if a perfect copy can be made of a person? It's a bit messed up i think, the author lets us (at least me) believe that there is such a thing as a unique soul of someone and if it's sealed then that individual can't possibly come back unless the seal is broken. For example that is how one could make a difference between a kage bunshin and the real person, otherwise the kage bunshin being a perfect copy of the person's body and chakra. But now we have a perfect copy from a cursed seal. Of course we could rationalize about this being possible as i did in my previous post. But using that rationale it is then hard to believe that Kabuto was not able to bring back Orochimaru to life (here i'm assuming that Kabuto would want to bring him back because he idolized Orochi).

Well i still think that the current Orochi is not at 100%, my guess is that his body is crippled in a similar way to Tobi's, so he can't fight at full power, that would make him an evil advisor-like figure for Sasuke, i think that's a more interesting role for Orochi than having him fight. His talking was usually more fun than his fighting
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Old 2012-07-10, 16:43   Link #45
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Old 2012-07-10, 16:51   Link #46
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Wow, early chapter this week. Haven't had one of those in quite some time.

Only real comment (since anything else I would say has been said by Rahan and Hunter), I liked the slight deference Orochimaru showed toward his former apprentices (or at least I read his slight regard toward Anko, Kabuto and Sasuke as a form of deference).

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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
But then what is the soul that is supposed to be unique, if a perfect copy can be made of a person? It's a bit messed up i think, the author lets us (at least me) believe that there is such a thing as a unique soul of someone and if it's sealed then that individual can't possibly come back unless the seal is broken. For example that is how one could make a difference between a kage bunshin and the real person, otherwise the kage bunshin being a perfect copy of the person's body and chakra. But now we have a perfect copy from a cursed seal. Of course we could rationalize about this being possible as i did in my previous post. But using that rationale it is then hard to believe that Kabuto was not able to bring back Orochimaru to life (here i'm assuming that Kabuto would want to bring him back because he idolized Orochi).
We already know that chakra can exist without a soul (Kage Bushin is the main example of this, and there are many more not to mention that technically the Bijuu are also only chakra constructs (maybe the Jyuubi has a 'soul' but it is very unclear if the Kyuubi does)), so Orochimaru being brought back is at least understandable (even if it is silly to the extreme).

That being said, Sasuke just cured Anko's curse seal problem .
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Old 2012-07-10, 17:24   Link #47
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
We already know that chakra can exist without a soul (Kage Bushin is the main example of this,
Kage bunshin is an example of the opposite, if the user of the jutsu is killed or just knocked out the kage bunshin vanishes. For example when Naruto went kyuubi-mode against Pain his kage bunshin just vanished.

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technically the Bijuu are also only chakra constructs (maybe the Jyuubi has a 'soul' but it is very unclear if the Kyuubi does)),
The bijuu are pissed probably because humans think that they are just "chakra constructs", but they have personalities just like humans, so if humans have soul they also should have.
The other thing is, if the kyuubi were just a mass of chakra then when Minato split it into 2 halves then what is the other half supposed to be? Is it another kyuubi or just some mass of chakra?

But i guess i should probably think in a different way about what a "soul" is in the Naruto world. But i can't think of any way that this would make sense, so i guess i'll just enjoy the story and not search for too much logic in it Having Orochimaru back was worth breaking any rules that the author might have set previously

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That being said, Sasuke just cured Anko's curse seal problem .
Apparently Kabuto was also healed from Orochi's chakra
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Old 2012-07-10, 17:42   Link #48
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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
Kage bunshin is an example of the opposite, if the user of the jutsu is killed or just knocked out the kage bunshin vanishes. For example when Naruto went kyuubi-mode against Pain his kage bunshin just vanished.
Kage Bushins do not have souls though they could potentially be connected to the casters soul (designed on how you wish to interpret Sarutobi's fight with Orochimaru). They are chakra constructs definitely connected to the mind of the user.

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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
The bijuu are pissed probably because humans think that they are just "chakra constructs", but they have personalities just like humans, so if humans have soul they also should have.

The Bijuu are "living" chakra constructs created by Rikudou-Sennin using Banbutsu Sōzō. There is no direct evidence to suggest that they have "souls".

Additionally, Kage Bushins seem to have individual personalities, but they do not apprear to have souls.

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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
The other thing is, if the kyuubi were just a mass of chakra then when Minato split it into 2 halves then what is the other half supposed to be? Is it another kyuubi or just some mass of chakra?
Minato split the yin and yang chakra. Presumably the other half (the yin) sealed in the death god is also a Kyuubi (considering Orochimaru is Orochimaru no matter his birth date )
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Old 2012-07-10, 19:15   Link #49
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Phuck YES!!
he's my favorite villain too. i thought this chapter was awesome! i dont care that it was mostly dialogue like some people seem to be disappointed with. orochimaru's return was better than anything in that kabuto fight as far as i'm concerned. also, suigetsu was funny and orochimaru taking his chakra back from kabuto was badass. i've been predicting that orochimaru would be back for a while too. what next? will tobi be obito? lol

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I don't get how it makes sense for Orochimaru to appear in this fashion when he was sealed by Susanoo, but who cares.
yea it makes no sense but i also dont mind at the moment at least.

i've tried making sense out of the whole 1 soul/splitting posts in this thread, but everything seems to fall apart when you throw the reaper deathgod or the totsuka sword into the discussion. if the totsuka sword wasnt necessary then kabuto should have revived orochimaru himself. and why couldn't hashirama be ET'd since his chakra is all over the place... his soul is sealed like orochimaru's apparently is

but yea, having orochimaru back > logic

also, i totally agree with Hiking Bear that the kages are about to be revived. it makes sense for orochimaru to have been researching the deathgod to get his arms back and hashirama can definitely be labeled as the one who knows everything
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Old 2012-07-10, 21:30   Link #50
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oro split his soul into the curse seal. all he created so its safe to assume he had at least 6 parts of his soul split and his own thats been sealed.

so assume reverse engineers the death seal, brings back the first to fight madara, brings back the 3rd to answer all hid questions and the 4th just for fanservice.
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Old 2012-07-11, 00:13   Link #51
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Also foreshadowing for Orochimaru, no arms is the only reason Sasuke/Itachi beat him. Will he finally be at full power? He did re-absorb all of his chakra that was stored in Anko and Kabuto without killing them.
Feel like I should note, Itachi beat him while he still had use of his arms.
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Old 2012-07-11, 00:25   Link #52
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Orochimaru reminds me of a certain villian in Inuyasha *cough (the ability to split his body and soul)

Just a random thought after reading this chapter...
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Old 2012-07-11, 00:34   Link #53
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i guess we all kind of expected oro to come back so it's not a major plot twist, but the way he was brought back felt like an asspull. i expected a more elaborate explanation.

Quote:
The way he was brought back doesn't make any sense either.
He never needed to switch bodies to gain immortality. He never needed Tsunade to heal his soul. Heck he didn't even need a soul to begin with.
you're right, it doesn't make sense. why go through the pains of switching bodies or get tsunade to "heal" him when all he needed was to seal a part of himself in other people's bodies and then have someone revive him every time his current self dies? so basically, if this oro dies as well, all they need to do is unseal him from his other cursed seal victims.
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Old 2012-07-11, 02:31   Link #54
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oro would fux up volde in a 1on1 and rowling copied kishi.

ANyways, lame chapter since oro didnt sound like himself (too helpful) but I am sure oro is just setting it up to double cross sasuke and take his body after he charges up/splits up taka.

So can kabuto still go sage mode withotu oros chakra? I think that is what was implied.. He needs the firepower to redeem himself against oro in his redemption fight as was someone posted.
That would be an awesome way to end kabutos part of the story (i wouldnt mind seeing oro revived yet AGAIN in a future arc or movie now that we know it is possible).
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Old 2012-07-11, 02:35   Link #55
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Orochimaru is Voldemort seems like as good an explanation as it gets. Curse seals = Horcruxes.
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Old 2012-07-11, 02:43   Link #56
ronin myael
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rowling copied kishi.
uh, harry potter was first published in 1997 while naruto came out in 2000. and i highly doubt rowling has even heard of naruto. not that i'm saying kishi copied hp, but the similarities between oro and voldemort are so glaring, snakes, obsession with immortality, ambitions of world domination, horcruxes. then there's naruto being an orphan but with some pretty important parents like harry. naruto having a powerful master in jiraiya just like harry has dumbledore, naruto having kakashi as a sort of guardian while harry has sirius black. naruto was also part of a trio along with sakura and sasuke, while harry has hermione and ron. naruto being the child of prophecy just like harry. rowling putting a new spin to witches and wizards and kishi with his own version of ninja. the similarities could be coincidental of course, but you can't deny that they do exist.

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Orochimaru is Voldemort seems like as good an explanation as it gets. Curse seals = Horcruxes.
*nods nods* i think that explains it all! lol
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Old 2012-07-11, 03:13   Link #57
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Old 2012-07-11, 03:31   Link #58
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Originally Posted by kk2extreme View Post
Orochimaru reminds me of a certain villian in Inuyasha *cough (the ability to split his body and soul)

Just a random thought after reading this chapter...
That was a good recall. Naraku’s method might even inspired Voldemort’s horcruxes.

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you're right, it doesn't make sense. why go through the pains of switching bodies or get tsunade to "heal" him when all he needed was to seal a part of himself in other people's bodies and then have someone revive him every time his current self dies? so basically, if this oro dies as well, all they need to do is unseal him from his other cursed seal victims.
I doubt that his seals is his key to immortality though. Its major drawback is that the seal somehow needs outside “help” which is pretty complex. Sasuke must get the skin of the snake (sage) and then put it on a victim’s curse seal then reverse Kakashi’s sealing technique (which possibly Kabuto never know about it). Not to mention that the Oro that we see in this chapter might not be the “real” Oro that Kabuto want to revive. Looking at his reaction, It seems that even Oro himself is surprised that he got revived (even if it’s just a little).
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Old 2012-07-11, 04:36   Link #59
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I just had a thought....

What if the person Sasuke is talking about is....The First Hokage?!

Think about it. Who could possibly give Sasuke answers to all the questions he seeks about the village? Orochimaru also asked Sasuke what he plans to do when he sees "them?" What if the contents of that scroll contain information about how to release the souls trapped inside The Death God? Perhaps Orochimaru after his battle with the 3rd Hokage decided to learn all he could about the Death God and perhaps use Edo Tensei to gain control of all the Hokage. All 4 of the Hokage's souls are currently sealed in side the Death God.

Orochimaru told Sasuke he was just a kid and questioned why he wanted to speak to "them" suggesting that the people he is talking about come from before his time.

Suigetsu thinks the scroll contains the power to control the entire Ninja world.

If the scroll is related to people and Sasuke needs Orochimaru's help then the Hokage's would be the #1 most valuable Ninja whose power Orochimaru planned to harness and whom Sasuke would want information from.

Add that to the fact that there has been a lot of hype surrounding the 1st Hokage from the use of his cells to empower other Ninja to Uchiha Madara boasting that he is the only one with the power to challenge him.

Sasuke doesn't really trust Tobi at the moment and he still wants answers about the relationship between the Uchiha clan and the village. One or all of the Hokage could give him could give him the knowledge he seeks about the village's history. They could also be used as weapons in the war.
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Old 2012-07-11, 04:46   Link #60
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it's completely up in the air who "them" refers too, especially since stated on one of the previous pages, the japanese term used for "them" in this case, is pretty derogative.

both oro and sasuke could easily be referring to the kages since they both aren't too fond of konoha, but the human who knows everything... that would be the mostly likely be the rikudou sennin would it not?

wouldn't be surprised if he lived in some shape or form.... everyone's doing it these days
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