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Old 2012-07-11, 05:51   Link #10021
DawnEmperor
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Wait, who wants Zenkichi to die? I admit I've been frustrated with his character lately, but I wouldn't say he should die.
And I definitely like that mentoring montage. Seems like it wasn't just a manipulative experience after all.
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Old 2012-07-11, 06:09   Link #10022
Lexxus
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Awesome. There you go Zen. You wish has been granted Like what others were saying, I'm amazed that she didn't berserk after what she saw.
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Old 2012-07-11, 06:27   Link #10023
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I'm amazed that she didn't berserk after what she saw.
I am too. After all the one you love more then anyone else was just...
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Old 2012-07-11, 06:29   Link #10024
Tenchi Hou Take
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Originally Posted by novalysis View Post
Oh dear. If Medaka Box is ending soon, then this rapid push to "final Battle" may be a way of truncating this arc short...
Somehow that doesn't make sense. We still have the second season of the anime, meaning at the very least it won't be ending this year and if Nisio really wanted it to end soon he would have done it last arc and simply elongated that. as it would have been more of "climatic" finish. There's at least one more arc after this one, unless he plans to really drag it out.
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Old 2012-07-11, 06:33   Link #10025
Soji
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Originally Posted by DawnEmperor View Post
Wait, who wants Zenkichi to die? I admit I've been frustrated with his character lately, but I wouldn't say he should die.
And I definitely like that mentoring montage. Seems like it wasn't just a manipulative experience after all.
I read post like that on other forums. One of them is on MF.And I agree with you about being frustrated from his character lately ,but I'm sure not wish his death.
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Originally Posted by sky black swordman View Post
I am too. After all the one you love more then anyone else was just...
Zen word. Why you think he say this kind of word in the end? And i think some one already mention this in this topic.
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Old 2012-07-11, 06:33   Link #10026
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While Medaka is a Superwoman and clearly the most dangerous out of the participants...the one that should really worry the suitors is the clearly pissed off Ajimu they have sealed up. A seal like that is nothing to her and she didn't look all too happy about Zenkichi getting...Shot through the Heart! with a spear...

And wait...am I right in assuming that Momo is 3 years old or younger? Looks like it from Ajimu's speech about how a dangerous child was born while she was away for 3 years.

Yes, Zen's words were clearly a way to keep Medaka from going nuts and killing everyone there...but I wonder if the message to Shiranui had some hidden meaning to it. Honestly I wouldn't mind seeing them release Shiranui and seeing her more pissed than Ajimu and Medaka combined. It's about time we see a pissed off Shiranui really...
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Old 2012-07-11, 06:47   Link #10027
Soji
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Randrak42@ Yeah they pissed off the 3 most dangerous woman in this manga with what they just did. Like you say would not suprise me to see Shiranui get serious as well.
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Old 2012-07-11, 07:55   Link #10028
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1) I like the "love mode" of Medaka and answer of Medaka. Ok. Let's wait for the happy end of the arch.
2) Technically interesting to obtain freedom for Ajimu.
3) I have no intention to fight. (c) Shiranui. But Shiranui have similarities to Kumagawa.
Yes, its involvement would be interested. While it may make sense of code is another.
4) Next arc - wedding
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Old 2012-07-11, 08:29   Link #10029
novalysis
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Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take View Post
Somehow that doesn't make sense. We still have the second season of the anime, meaning at the very least it won't be ending this year and if Nisio really wanted it to end soon he would have done it last arc and simply elongated that. as it would have been more of "climatic" finish. There's at least one more arc after this one, unless he plans to really drag it out.
No, I'm not opposed to another arc, nor do I think that Nisio has run out of things to talk about. I've posted four or five times that there are quite a few genres Nisio hasn't yet touched. Like the rare Romances that go beyond the confession ( Clannad Afterstory, Mysterious Girl Friend X). Psychological Thrillers (Liar Game) and Seinen and Josei tropes. I've emphasized this several times, but I think it got drowned in the conversations. Don't get me wrong here.

If Nisio wants to continue, he has a lot of material, and the story has alot of directions it could go. VERY interesting directions.

But it feels like the length of this arc is short, and rapidly drawing to a close, almost deliberately. Which is why I fear it might be an ominous sign. Now, I may be wrong, and I do hope I'm wrong, and rather, the Jet Black Wedding Arc is actually meant to be a relatively short one, a critical transition arc to some other longer arc taking pot-shots at another genre.

Because even if Zen and Medaka marries, it's easy to write a story about their marriage. Like Medaka entering that "larger" garden out there, with Zen at her side. I do think Medaka Box is a Shounen bubble in a Seinen world. There's a greater world out there, of abnormals and intrigues and more unusual powers, where businesses are conducted at the business end of competing Pluses and Minuses, and Corporate Espionage and Diplomacy done with the copious use of styles and abilities by all sides.

Where top lawyers, take-over business negotiators, contract killers, lobbyist and politicians alike have abilities of their own. Medaka's The End is going to have a field day copying all those Pluses from the Kurokami's group's likely business rivals, partners, allies, clients, major customers, lobbyists, politicians, diplomats and more. Devil Style is broken when you are part of a team that has a clear upper-hand in negotiations. Devil Style + Medaka's the End + Zenkichi's ability as a "Multiplier" bringing out the best in others makes for a very deadly combo that's very difficult to beat.

Of course, it was Devil Style that got Zenkichi killed. But now that Zen's Devil Style is inactive, I fear the suitors have made a huge, huge mistake. Without Devil Style, the playing field now tilts towards the Hakinowa Students. Contrived Coincidence is now a possibility. One or two of the suitors well be Medaka's long lost playing companions. Another would now feel guilty. The Card Hax ability would be dodged by a Serious Medaka armed with plot armor and thou must win. Ajimu will be guaranteed to use one of her crazy, coincidence inducing powers to walk out of the cards.

Last edited by novalysis; 2012-07-11 at 08:40.
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Old 2012-07-11, 09:13   Link #10030
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It's probably because Tv tropes pointed it out, but Zenkichi always seems pretty calm when he's about to die. Choking on his blood...and still has the strength to think of shiranui(though that might be code).
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Old 2012-07-11, 09:20   Link #10031
Naginoura
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Originally Posted by novalysis View Post
No, I'm not opposed to another arc, nor do I think that Nisio has run out of things to talk about. I've posted four or five times that there are quite a few genres Nisio hasn't yet touched. Like the rare Romances that go beyond the confession ( Clannad Afterstory, Mysterious Girl Friend X). Psychological Thrillers (Liar Game) and Seinen and Josei tropes. I've emphasized this several times, but I think it got drowned in the conversations. Don't get me wrong here.

(...)

Of course, it was Devil Style that got Zenkichi killed. But now that Zen's Devil Style is inactive, I fear the suitors have made a huge, huge mistake. Without Devil Style, the playing field now tilts towards the Hakinowa Students. Contrived Coincidence is now a possibility. One or two of the suitors well be Medaka's long lost playing companions. Another would now feel guilty. The Card Hax ability would be dodged by a Serious Medaka armed with plot armor and thou must win. Ajimu will be guaranteed to use one of her crazy, coincidence inducing powers to walk out of the cards.
Saying there is no way Medaka Box will end would be a childish dream I am not willing to wake up from, but I think it's safe to assume that Medaka Box would at least go on a few weeks into its anime's 2nd season —and there might even be a 3rd season if Gainax stops treating Medaka Box like a 3rd rate love/school comedy, actually do the fluid animation they are famous for without ever messing with Nisio's dialogue for the 2nd one.

While this arc might look like it's going quicker than most arcs, I don't think it's going at a similar pace to the fabled "3 weeks until it ends/8 weeks and it ends" situations of Bakuman.

You are right about the vast amount of possibilities Nisio can explore after this arc, but there is one thing I find quite irritating—the fact that you reduce Medaka Box and Nisio's goal to taking jabs at any and all kind of manga/story. I hardly feel like that's what Medaka Box is 100% about and reducing its possibilities to those is quite irritating. Then again, people calling Nisio troll and what he does trolling also irritate me to a great extent, so I'm not trying to offend anyone.

Also, I doubt Ajimu was ever in need of a coincidence to leave the card. Seeing her like this is amazing~ =w=
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Old 2012-07-11, 09:20   Link #10032
novalysis
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Originally Posted by DawnEmperor View Post
It's probably because Tv tropes pointed it out, but Zenkichi always seems pretty calm when he's about to die. Choking on his blood...and still has the strength to think of shiranui(though that might be code).
I think if the anime get's that far, we would actually see more Zen X Shiranui fans complaining too, since Shiranui seems to be very popular with the anime viewers....

But remember, Ajimu offered a Harem Ending...
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Old 2012-07-11, 09:24   Link #10033
novalysis
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Originally Posted by Naginoura View Post

You are right about the vast amount of possibilities Nisio can explore after this arc, but there is one thing I find quite irritating—the fact that you reduce Medaka Box and Nisio's goal to taking jabs at any and all kind of manga/story. I hardly feel like that's what Medaka Box is 100% about and reducing its possibilities to those is quite irritating. Then again, people calling Nisio troll and what he does trolling also irritate me to a great extent, so I'm not trying to offend anyone.

Also, I doubt Ajimu was ever in need of a coincidence to leave the card. Seeing her like this is amazing~ =w=
Actually, the Bread and Butter of Medaka Box has been playing with the genres, and it's frequent, and very fascinating genre shifts. While still keeping the characters intact with a clear continuity of development. That's not all that Medaka Box is about, but for me, this is Medaka's box main selling point.

Which is why I really like to see Nisio exploring other genres, since we haven't seen serious meta exploration of some of these more serious Seinen and Josei genres. Rom-Com and Harem has already been brilliantly savaged by TGWOK, so Medaka Box has to move out of it, and I think Medaka and Zenkichi becoming fiancees is a clear sign that the traditional Rom-Com "shitty love comedy" itself has ended.
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Old 2012-07-11, 09:43   Link #10034
ccie20012
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I agree that it is possible to write many more arches. In the end, the marriage itself will take more than one arch. They need to complete their education. Perhaps learning more? From the Medaka get a wonderful loving mother. Hmm ... I indulged in dreams. I would like to slice-of-life genre.

Harem Ending? Not agree
In fact, this is absolutely not harem manga. The harem is just a joke.
Remember the joke from the Nisemonogatari (?) - "I have never created such strange structures (harem). And besides, even if so, why there was a man in a Hawaiian shirt"

I think it's inevitable discrepancy between estimates of Medaka Box. As you know Medka Box migrated from combat to love comedy manga. Those who loved "fighting manga" in Medaka Box will see this reduction in capacity. Those who like the "HS love comedy" will be seen in Medaka Box good plot and positive emotions.
Now it's "Rom-Com based on combat manga"

traditional Rom-Com "shitty love comedy" can be ended only after marriage
Although I would not want that. In the end, this is my favorite genre. But it's only IMHO

Last edited by ccie20012; 2012-07-11 at 10:03.
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Old 2012-07-11, 10:33   Link #10035
Naginoura
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Originally Posted by novalysis View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naginoura View Post
You are right about the vast amount of possibilities Nisio can explore after this arc, but there is one thing I find quite irritating—the fact that you reduce Medaka Box and Nisio's goal to taking jabs at any and all kind of manga/story. I hardly feel like that's what Medaka Box is 100% about and reducing its possibilities to those is quite irritating. Then again, people calling Nisio troll and what he does trolling also irritate me to a great extent, so I'm not trying to offend anyone.

Also, I doubt Ajimu was ever in need of a coincidence to leave the card. Seeing her like this is amazing~ =w=
Actually, the Bread and Butter of Medaka Box has been playing with the genres, and it's frequent, and very fascinating genre shifts. While still keeping the characters intact with a clear continuity of development. That's not all that Medaka Box is about, but for me, this is Medaka's box main selling point.

Which is why I really like to see Nisio exploring other genres, since we haven't seen serious meta exploration of some of these more serious Seinen and Josei genres. Rom-Com and Harem has already been brilliantly savaged by TGWOK, so Medaka Box has to move out of it, and I think Medaka and Zenkichi becoming fiancees is a clear sign that the traditional Rom-Com "shitty love comedy" itself has ended.
I see. I had figured you had completely reduced Medaka Box and Nisio's writing to the genre-breaking aspect. (There are a lot of people who keep saying they read for the twists or they read for the trolling, etc... >_< ) Since that doesn't seem to be the case here, I suppose I was too hasty to get irritated. I'm sorry. C=
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Old 2012-07-11, 12:00   Link #10036
novalysis
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Originally Posted by Naginoura View Post
I see. I had figured you had completely reduced Medaka Box and Nisio's writing to the genre-breaking aspect. (There are a lot of people who keep saying they read for the twists or they read for the trolling, etc... >_< ) Since that doesn't seem to be the case here, I suppose I was too hasty to get irritated. I'm sorry. C=
It's ok.
There are several other elements, some strong, and some much weaker

The second biggest element and draw of Medaka Box is the exploration of the psyche and motivation of Mary Sues. If one reaches the epitome of human perfection, what is one's goal in life? You see this trend in Medaka and Naze, and both arrive at very different answers. Naze deliberately embraced suffering, while Zenkichi imposed a goal (unwittingly) of benevolence for benevolence sake on Medaka.

The third is romance - it feels weaker, but then again, Medaka seems not to discriminate between the love of friendship and the love of romance, whatever her proclamations to Akune. It makes sense then, as Medaka's first and best friend, for Medaka to reciprocate to Zenkichi - to her the gulf from best friend to lover is non-existent, contingent upon Zenkichi's reciprocation of her initial offer.

If, they want to explore Medaka and Zenkichi as fiancees, then Nisio may well be exploring the theme of whether there's any difference between a Best Friend of the opposite gender, and a Romantic partner - can your best friend be your wife?
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Old 2012-07-11, 12:05   Link #10037
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Originally Posted by Naginoura View Post
I see. I had figured you had completely reduced Medaka Box and Nisio's writing to the genre-breaking aspect. (There are a lot of people who keep saying they read for the twists or they read for the trolling, etc... >_< ) Since that doesn't seem to be the case here, I suppose I was too hasty to get irritated. I'm sorry. C=
Love or Hate it, Nishio must be doing something right to get that many readers, fans and haters alike.
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Old 2012-07-11, 12:54   Link #10038
Randrak42
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Oh my Raptor Jesus...don't tell me people are gonna start over thinking things again...we've had enough of that already in the days leading up to the chapter...
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Old 2012-07-11, 13:19   Link #10039
ccie20012
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"Best Friend of the opposite gender"

We know the author's position on this issue.
You may watch Nisemonogatari - where the sister asks Araragi
- "possible be a friendship between a man and a woman?"
- "yes, of course, we're friends with the Sengoku"
LOL. To which sister says "yes, yes of course" (ironic - Araragi just do not notice the obvious - feeling of Sengoku)
Thus it is clear that Nishino did not believe in the possibility of "just a friendship."

You can not combine the condition to always be together and the lack of romantic relationships (and later in married).
If we're talking about a romantic relationship, when friendship, romance and sex are in harmony.
I'm not talking here about the shitty hentai (NTR, rape, etc.).
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Old 2012-07-11, 16:21   Link #10040
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Everyone expected Medaka to reject Zenkichi, author trolled everyone and also killed him....
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