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Old 2012-07-12, 10:21   Link #81
Silvance
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
No...what really defines Muv Luv America is that they are leasing out Alaska to the USSR
Ah~ How kind of them to leave some "nice" stuff too as a bonus.

I know that the political leaders don't mind being seen as the devil themselves if it will keep their citizens safe, but they really need to exert moderation. They take things way too far most of the time. lol.
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Old 2012-07-12, 10:23   Link #82
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
No...what really defines Muv Luv America is that they are leasing out Alaska to the USSR
Of course, with the bonus of

Spoiler for Total Eclipse somewhat spoiler:


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Old 2012-07-12, 10:42   Link #83
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They're Americans. Their whole paradigm is that they don't think about what's right or wrong, they do what they need to do to protect their country.

Besides... so long as the BETA don't break through, there's no problem. And if the BETA do break through... nothing like that surprise to really give them the finger.

And ironically, the US bought Alaska from the Russians. Now they're leasing it to them, lol.
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Old 2012-07-12, 10:47   Link #84
Silvance
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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
They're Americans. Their whole paradigm is that they don't think about what's right or wrong, they do what they need to do to protect their country.
I know, and I applaud them for that, but it's hard to take them seriously when they start complaining that the other countries call them an evil empire with domination in mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
And ironically, the US bought Alaska from the Russians. Now they're leasing it to them, lol.

I know, right? lol

Last edited by Silvance; 2012-07-12 at 11:29. Reason: removed the horrible joke. o/
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Old 2012-07-12, 11:25   Link #85
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Such behavior sets up delicious development for roits and anti-American movement. I would not like if somebody intended to bomb my territory and damaged it irreparably even if it were for "greater good".

In the end Americans will be backed to the wall with conflict from every direction.
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Old 2012-07-12, 11:32   Link #86
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Well, that'd be

Spoiler for The result of Alternative V:
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Old 2012-07-12, 14:59   Link #87
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Well then that answers my question over whether or not BETA can swim.
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Old 2012-07-12, 16:00   Link #88
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Well then that answers my question over whether or not BETA can swim.
I think not.... since they came/spotted from areas that doesn't have any water... moon and Mars.. don't know about the game.
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Old 2012-07-12, 17:28   Link #89
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Well then that answers my question over whether or not BETA can swim.
They don't really swim, they just rampage along the sea floor . If water deterred them, they wouldn't have be able to invade Japan in the first place. Although I do remember in one of the Day After scenarios, it showed the BETA destroyer and fort-classes directly attacking a aircraft carrier, perhaps they can float if they want to. Remember, the BETA are highly adaptive, and at least one Hive remained active after being blasted into the ocean after Alternative V.
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Old 2012-07-12, 17:34   Link #90
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All they just need is a chapter of Space Marines.

But seriously Alternative V looks like a complete pothead move on a level of hysteric housewife. The consequences are too dire. It is 100% dead end. How did they even justify it? I would except it from Russian "shoot first, think later".
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Old 2012-07-12, 17:43   Link #91
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All they just need is a chapter of Space Marines.

But seriously Alternative V looks like a complete pothead move on a level of hysteric housewife. The consequences are too dire. It is 100% dead end. How did they even justify it? I would except it from Russian "shoot first, think later".
Because apparently blowing everything up is suppose to solve everything.
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Old 2012-07-12, 18:28   Link #92
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How did they even justify it? I would except it from Russian "shoot first, think later".


Spoiler for Alternative V:
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Old 2012-07-12, 20:09   Link #93
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The heck is with these idiots dragging the rest of the world into its undoing.
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Old 2012-07-12, 20:37   Link #94
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They had no idea Alternative V would turn out like that. There wasn't really much to suggest that it would based on their use at Yokohama.
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Old 2012-07-12, 22:16   Link #95
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BETA = cancer
TSF = herbal remedies
Alternative I-III = naturopathy
Alternative VI = cyronics
Alternative V = chemo + rado full course therepy
Alternative IV = haxx plot
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Old 2012-07-12, 22:45   Link #96
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They had no idea Alternative V would turn out like that. There wasn't really much to suggest that it would based on their use at Yokohama.
It's not just Alt V I was talking about. The part where US is developing their TSFs as if they are more interested in fighting against other humans than against BETA.
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Old 2012-07-12, 23:50   Link #97
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It's not just Alt V I was talking about. The part where US is developing their TSFs as if they are more interested in fighting against other humans than against BETA.
Mind you, it's not as if the US was the only nation that was doing that - the IJA and Imperial Guard did train for TSF-vs-TSF combat, and let's not forget the aggressor pilots of the Fuji School Brigade.

In fact, all things considered, I'm of the opinion that the F-22 was a prudent choice, assholish as it may have been, because as Day After showed, it was absolutely necessary. Hell, don't forget the coup!

Yes, the YF-23 may have been better at fighting BETA, but the Americans, crazy prepared as they try to be, anticipated that at some point there would be TSFs fighting against each other and wanted that little edge.

Also, it's worth noting that the Americans didn't shoot first, but the French-Canadians.

tl;dr: Everyone had some form of anti-TSF combat planning or training going on; it was only that the Americans were bluntly honest enough - or just didn't give a fuck - in making a surface superiority TSF God Mode Sue, and were able to field it in decent numbers (several battalions) compared to, say, the Shiranui, which mostly went to aces.

Again, as I've said before, it's kinda an American mindset. To quote a song I heard once, "You don't care about what's right or what's wrong, you do what you gotta do to defend your own."
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Old 2012-07-13, 00:09   Link #98
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It's not just Alt V I was talking about. The part where US is developing their TSFs as if they are more interested in fighting against other humans than against BETA.
Well, they're just taking the long view, that's all. Since it's not like everything is going to be sunshine and roses between nations after the BETA are gone, they might as well make sure to get an edge over everyone else ahead of time. It's not as if the F-22 doesn't already do pretty damn well against BETA anyway, and there's also the excuse that the YF-23's design focus tried to do too many radical design innovations like having four pylons instead of two to carry up to six guns at once, altered ammo ratios in the XAMWS-24 swapping a buttload of 36mm rounds for a few extra 120mm rounds plus a bayonet, a sword etc., which ended up being completely contrary to standard US TSF combat doctrine of focusing on longer range engagements as opposed to close combat, making it less suitable for adoption (since you'd probably be spending a lot to retrain your pilots and redraw plans to suit use of a close combat type TSF). The YF-23's design was something more suited to, say, European or Soviet tactical doctrine. Sort of mirrors all the crazy stuff the real-life YF-23 tried to do with its IR signature-hiding heat ablating tiles, unconventional diamond-shaped wings with fancy all-moving V-tail etc, compared to the YF-22 being more grounded in existing stuff.

That is to say, it's not so much that they're more interested in fighting BETA, as it is that they're taking into consideration both the need to fight the BETA now as well as the possibility of the threat of other humans once the BETA are gone, and the YF-22 fit both these requirements while the YF-23 went a bit off the rails in trying to do too many new things.

If I remember correctly the US Marines do still pull their weight with frequent anti-BETA ops in the European/Taiwan areas alongside Euro/Warsaw/Soviet etc. forces, so it's not as though they're just sitting back and letting everyone else do the work with their exported TSFs.

Last edited by DoomRavager; 2012-07-13 at 00:31.
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Old 2012-07-13, 00:21   Link #99
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Oh, I completely agree - I was just pointing out that for all the claims of "DURR HURR US ARE BAD GUYS", the Americans are being quite pragmatic. Note that most of the Americans encountered in the game tend to be upstanding, decent people, particularly Al Walker, who shits freedom and bald eagles.

Also, the US is incredibly involved all over the world, it's just that there's so much BETA, what good they can do is quickly swallowed up. Heck, look at TE ep 2: Kyoto is falling, the final defensive line is broken, the IJN is resorting to naval gunfire missions danger close, practically on top of the few Japanese forces that aren't eaten up, the situation is obviously hopeless... and then the Theodore Roosevelt launches her Tomcats to do whatever they can, because they're allies, and that's what allies do.

"Their devotion to duty is admirable," murmurs the IJN Admiral, even though he knows it's all pointless.

All things considered, as a whole, Muv-Luv has one of the kinder portrayals of Americans: pragmatists who will shoot the dog if they have to - but at the same time, decent people who try their best to do the right thing.
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Old 2012-07-13, 00:29   Link #100
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I have always been of the opinion that the F-22 development was planned in relation to Alternative V having taken placed. They probably predicted that the aftermath would not make other nations that survived very happy neighbors. So they created their own ace in the hole. Whether as a deterrence or a show of force or both is possible.

I must also say that I do find the expense and space used on the TSF frame for stealth capabilities against other TSFs could have been better used on Anti-BETA detection / armor capacity.

I would assume that post MLA alternative IV, they would be heavily criticized for that policy.

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All things considered, as a whole, Muv-Luv has one of the kinder portrayals of Americans: pragmatists who will shoot the dog if they have to - but at the same time, decent people who try their best to do the right thing.
I agree with this point. Even if the commanders are concerned with the politics of the situation, the pilot on the ground only cares for getting shit done.
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