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Old 2012-07-12, 23:28   Link #1401
Kyuu
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I just realized something. Calling Chii/Pon/Kan via correspondence? Good luck.
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Old 2012-09-05, 11:17   Link #1402
RegalStar
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5-dan!

Last edited by RegalStar; 2012-09-05 at 13:49.
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Old 2012-09-05, 17:13   Link #1403
Kyuu
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Delicious.

Also. Who wants a book?

http://reachmahjong.com/en/forum/vie...hp?f=5&t=53033
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Old 2013-02-25, 16:18   Link #1404
Kyuu
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Just about a year ago, I scored this. Oh, how the time flew...

http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2012022214g...f3d7&tw=3&ts=9

And taking a closer look at the previous hands -- man, I played like an idiot. XD

Last edited by Kyuu; 2013-02-25 at 16:50.
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Old 2013-03-22, 12:19   Link #1405
h3yh3yh3
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Does anyone have a way to play tenhou on window unlimited play? i dont mean the flash player but the one that needs to install to play
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Old 2013-03-22, 12:21   Link #1406
Kyuu
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Originally Posted by h3yh3yh3 View Post
Does anyone have a way to play tenhou on window unlimited play? i dont mean the flash player but the one that needs to install to play
Two ways:

1) Pay by subscription
2) There's a crack - of which - I'm not at liberty to give here.

Then again, I only know of the crack. I don't use it.
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Old 2013-03-22, 12:26   Link #1407
h3yh3yh3
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Originally Posted by Kyuu View Post
Two ways:

1) Pay by subscription
2) There's a crack - of which - I'm not at liberty to give here.

Then again, I only know of the crack. I don't use it.
i see so there really is a crack for it haha.. can i get a bit of hint on how i can find it? maybe a search word for it? thanks
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Old 2013-05-11, 07:17   Link #1408
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Been playing a bit in the 7447 room with friends and apparently it's tracked. I, well, pretty lucky as of late. I seem to be able to avoid 4th place finishes: http://waml.harphield.com/index.php?p=1
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Old 2013-05-11, 21:35   Link #1409
Kyuu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Been playing a bit in the 7447 room with friends and apparently it's tracked. I, well, pretty lucky as of late. I seem to be able to avoid 4th place finishes: http://waml.harphield.com/index.php?p=1
In contrast, my usual trend continues...

Furthermore, Anime Central is coming up. With two others, I am scheduled to run two panels. On top of that, my club is running a mahjong event, with a tournament (barring interest). If I don't get enough players for a tournament, then I get to play. Win win for me.

But here is my work in progress:
http://prezi.com/user/7lwaspnzfxgv/

My mahjong addiction has so driven me into the deep end. XD
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Old 2013-05-13, 01:50   Link #1410
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Are you fucking serious? I mean Tenhou is full of shit, but this is unflushable. Yes I know it's based on seat order, but whoever thought of that should be shot.





Edit: More BS: http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2013051317g...-639fc4f4&tw=2 3 turn riichis for the lose.
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Old 2013-05-13, 15:26   Link #1411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Edit: More BS: http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2013051317g...-639fc4f4&tw=2 3 turn riichis for the lose.
ugh was such BS luck that game felt like I was playing someone from saki rather than person with their luck on getting into tenpai so fast .

And worst on hands I managed to anywhere near tenpai or hit tenpai he still drew winning 1st (besides the one tie), worst game I've had on tenhou by far.
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Old 2013-05-13, 17:00   Link #1412
Kyuu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konakaga View Post
ugh was such BS luck that game felt like I was playing someone from saki rather than person with their luck on getting into tenpai so fast .
Bill Clinton = luck



Quote:
Needs MOAR tickets >

[2012/09/06/般南喰赤]

A:01203333(+21.0)
B:KyuuAA(+74.0)
C:BryK(-38.0)
D:とっち(-57.0)

http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2012090616g...f6ce&tw=1&ts=6

Wow. I stole this game Saki-style.

XD

At the same time, I was listening to this:
YouTube
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

XD
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Old 2013-05-16, 00:22   Link #1413
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Note to Tenhou folks:

Don't kan for the hell of it especially against a riichi when you're nowhere near tenpai or insanely behind. It's pretty much like shoving a cactus up your ass. Unless you're into that kind of thing.

Also I have to say. Ura dora and the excessive focus on concealment have a very shady origin. Let's just say they got popular thanks to how easy it is to cheat with it in real life:



Skip to 2:48, you don't need subs.

Pon and chi would mess up the cheaters' beautifully stacked walls, and so they made it so the scoring is biased against open hands.

Also, this is why I strongly support orderly discards irl. The typical Chinese style of "toss the tile in the garbage pile" is very easily exploited.

The problem is often crappy rules are made to generate other crappy rules. For example, pattern values in Reach are so low, so people don't get to see big hands? Solution! More fucking dora. But that encourages really weak tight, defensive play, so people get bored? So what? No ten penalty. Chinese mahjong is the same too.

In classical mahjong, there was no kind of restriction. 4 sets and a pair. You win. No questions asked. Points were based on dragon pon, same suit, and more pon gave you more pts because they are harder. Toi Toi was the ultimate hand.

But oh no, people go out with shitty hands. We can't have that. So they put a minimum double requirement. You guys would know this as yaku. But with so few of them, it was hard to actually win. So what now? Add more bullshit, like counting stuff like "not having a flower" to be a double.

You guys know what pinfu means right? It means no points. When mahjong was originally conceived, this was the original piece of trash hand. And then for some reason people started to reward it. What? This is because closed waits were worth points, and so do dragon pairs. 4 straights and a pair thus would garner nothing but the base score. But it's literally the easiest hand to make, so pretty much every variant puts an arbitrary restriction on it such as no chi and what not. You can tell by how awkward the scoring is for Pin Tsumo. We reached the pinnacle of retardation in Chinese Official where having no scoring criteria gives you a lot of points. WHAT?

Japanese Mahjong then made a powerful addition to mahjong, by introducing more nuanced patterns that emphasized consistency. It is arguably the most stand out thing about it, though the excessive dora inflation is a big threat to its legacy. I will say that mahjong without stuff like sanshouku and chanta is insanely dull and I can never go back.

But that made it too easy to go out. Make patterns worth 3-4 doubles. Uh oh, that speed freak is still winning? Make a ridiculously high minimum han requirement. Indeed, a lot of people ended up playing "3 fan mahjong" ) which is arguably the most braindead form of mahjong because they recognize only toi toi and the flush hands. Playing it makes you unable to comprehend tile efficiency because you can't comprehend chi. The funniest thing is that people who demand 3 fan can't even count them sometimes. (It's not "no mixed suits", you dumbass) Of course, most hands can't go out like that, so what now? Remove the dead wall and draw to the end. In addition make it so that self draw is worth 3x the value so you feel like you won a lot. The result? Practically insignificant defensive play.

Which finally led to the ultimate foolishness in Chinese Official, which features pretty much everything that's fucking wrong with mahjong. High Minimum limit, excessive focus on tsumo, and tons of superfluous patterns that do not respect the regular hand. Derp. It was like they took things from Riichi Mahjong that was good and decided to ruin in it. The World Series of Mahjong ruleset is a far better ruleset and probably the one I like the best, but its gameplay is skewed far more offensively. Besides that, Japanese mahjong and classical are the only rulesets that emphasize tile efficiency and hand building. Of these, Riichi Mahjong provides the most gambling excitement at the expense of variance. There's a reason why it's the one that gets played professionally. But stay away from trash rules like Nashi and Nashi-Nashi, especially the later.

In the end, a lot of people will go "my mahjong rules are better than yours" but in reality there's something wrong with all of them. I recommend playing in a different style every now and then, though. It'll give you a bit more insight. A lot of people think 13 orphans is the ultimate yakuman, when in reality, it's actually the easiest to make.
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Last edited by Archon_Wing; 2013-05-16 at 01:31.
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Old 2013-05-18, 08:16   Link #1414
einhorn303
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
...In the end, a lot of people will go "my mahjong rules are better than yours" but in reality there's something wrong with all of them. I recommend playing in a different style every now and then, though. It'll give you a bit more insight. A lot of people think 13 orphans is the ultimate yakuman, when in reality, it's actually the easiest to make.
Have you heard of "Zung Jung" rules? It clearly borrows a lot from Riichi, but is designed to be more balanced. The main differences:

1. There's no dora, and less random luck bonuses.
2. There's less emphasis on closed hands.
3. The hand values are rebalanced to actually be fair...there's no more disproportionally weak hands like All Terminals (chanta).
4. Hands have linear value, without doubling.

I've played it a few times, and it's worked quite well.

The only thing I like to "change" about it is to play with a standard score value of "0." As it is, you choose a standard score value, and after a ron, non-winning players split the cost up to that value, then whoever discarded the tile pays the rest above that value. But I think "discarded pays 100%" is by far the best way (and preserves the purpose of defensive play).
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Old 2013-05-18, 08:41   Link #1415
Kyuu
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Anime Central:

http://m.guidebook.com/guide/6162/event/2079670/

http://m.guidebook.com/guide/6162/event/2079671/

Yep, I be a paneling @ this convention. The first one done yesterday. The second one in a few hours.

Then a whole scheduled evening of mahjong:
http://m.guidebook.com/guide/6162/event/2079838/

Well, in addition, I did throw in an extra session of play last night. Pretty much went at some more mahjong for a good 5 hours -- particularly with people from the first panel. Good stuff.
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Old 2013-05-18, 18:06   Link #1416
Archon_Wing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by einhorn303 View Post
Have you heard of "Zung Jung" rules? It clearly borrows a lot from Riichi, but is designed to be more balanced. The main differences:

1. There's no dora, and less random luck bonuses.
2. There's less emphasis on closed hands.
3. The hand values are rebalanced to actually be fair...there's no more disproportionally weak hands like All Terminals (chanta).
4. Hands have linear value, without doubling.

I've played it a few times, and it's worked quite well.

The only thing I like to "change" about it is to play with a standard score value of "0." As it is, you choose a standard score value, and after a ron, non-winning players split the cost up to that value, then whoever discarded the tile pays the rest above that value. But I think "discarded pays 100%" is by far the best way (and preserves the purpose of defensive play).
I have played it a few times with people. I used to post on rec.mahjong where the creator of the rules, Alan Kwan, posted on and had a few discussions on the matter so I could have been considered a beta tester. The WSOM rules are based on it. It's certainly a very easy way of teaching people since the rules are generally really basic and allows a lot of freedom. Though unlike the creator, I do think that flavor and "gambling" elements do add to the entertainment value. Still, I would consider it extremely flexible.

I used to post on rec.mahjong where the creator of the rules, Alan Kwan, posted on and had a few discussions on the matter. I believe he posted that the standard score value is arbitrary and that if people don't like it, to just use discarder pays all, though he personally objects to the concept. I think he did drive home a point that everyone finding rules that they like to be the most important. In other words, house rules are the real rules and stop enforcing a "standard" on people. When you play, you should change it to your liking.

However, because furiten does not exist in Zung Jung, I would strongly object to having a value off less than 20 for base. The only reason why Japanese Mahjong can have the most punitive discarder payout is because of furiten.
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Old 2013-05-20, 16:40   Link #1417
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Hmm, thanks to the abundance of dora per game, it seems that the yaku are more important to have one so you can go out. In this case I feel like ranking the yaku due to boredom, and feel free to tell me how wrong I am.

Naturally some yaku are more interesting to think about than others.

Speed: Obviously the ease of compiling said hand
Offense: How hard it is for an opponent to dodge your yaku
Defense: If you're building the hand, and your opponent attacks or declares riichi. How good are your defensive options and contingency plans?
Value: Reward vs Effort. An easily attained 3900 points is better than a 8000 hand that never gets completed. In general, I mean is it worth going out of your way for it.

Pinfu (4 sequences, no scoring pair, must be double sided wait)
Speed: A (One of the fastest hands to make. But it must be closed. It doesn't hurt that much.)
Offense: B (You cover a lot of tiles, but suji gives you away)
Defense: B (Your hand will most likely be middle tiles which can hurt if someone else is also in tenpai)
Value: A (Only 1 han, but it is easy to keep concealed for riichi)

Tanyao (All tiles must be from 2-8)
Speed: S (This is by and far the fastest hand)
Offense: C (It is somewhat obvious and easily dodged once they see it coming)
Defense: C (same as pinfu but more restricted. Open tanyao cries when they draw a 1 or a 9 and then someone attacks)
Value: S (Without a doubt the easiest han you can ever get)

Yakuhai (Dragon or scoring wind pon)
Speed: B (Triplets are harder to make, but if you can pon...)
Offense: S (As long as you have it, you can build your hand however you want)
Defense: A (If you have a concealed set, you can actually break it apart should you decide to fold. Your hand can contain almost anything, so it is easy to work around things.)
Value: C (Your hand will most likely be cheap if you have to open your hand. Mostly for dealer renchans and to end games quickly when you're in the lead)

Toi Toi (All Triplets)
Speed: B (Triplets are harder to make, but you can pon)
Offense: A (You can wait on any tile, but it is possible for people to suppress by dealing already dealt tiles)
Defense: F (Defensive options are limited because you have duplicate tiles, and will most likely have to pon. And even if you have a concealed triplet, that's still 3 of the same tile-- that means have fewer tiles to defend. You will most likely have to take apart a triplet and gamble at some point
Value: C (It can usually score a bit, unless you go for toi toi nomi)

Chanta (All sets contain a terminal or honor)
Speed: D (You're building a hand with the worst tiles in the game. Go figure)
Offense: A (You are waiting on people's unneeded tiles, usually. )
Defense: C (At the same time, your tiles are the least useful to anyone else and what comes out of your hand? Middle tiles. But you can take apart your hand though.)
Value: F (1 han for open? Pretty much only useful to scrape together hands with many dora)

Junchan (All sets contain a terminal)
Speed: F (Like chanta, but even more restricted)
Offense: B (same as above)
Defense (same as above)
Value: C (At least it pays for itself

Honitsu (Hand contains only one suit and honors)
Speed: C (You are restricted to about 2/5 the deck)
Offense: C (It's very transparent but at least you have honors to trick people with)
Defense: C (You will most likely have stray honors to protect yourself with)
Value: B (Plain honitsu is pretty awful since you will most likely have to open. On the other hand it combines well with other yaku such as yakuhai, chanta, and toi toi)

Chinitsu (Only one suit)
Speed: D (like honitsu but even slower)
Offense: F (You might as well play your hand face up)
Defense: D (You are discarding every other suit and honors.)
Value: A (it's worth a shitload though, which is the only reason to ever consider it)

IIpekou (2 identical sequences)
Speed: B (Shows up often in potential pinfu/tanyao hands. It must be closed though)
Offense: C (no comment)
Defense: C (You generally will have a lot of superfluous tiles)
Value: B (If your hand is closed, this will often be a nice addition

SanShouku (3 chow across 3 different suits. )
Speed: C (It's not too hard to make, but may require some slowdown especially if you draw the wrong end)
Offense: B (Usually not totally transparent)
Defense: C (In most cases you will have hanging tiles as you try to build your chow)
Value:S (It synergizes well with pinfu, tanyao, chanta, junchan. This will be your most common haneman+)

Chiitoisou (7 pairs )
Speed (A?) In general, it's a bit easier to make a pair than anything else. Only weakness is that you can't claim any tiles.
Offense: S It pretty much makes any tile but your furiten tiles and fully exhausted tiles unsafe.
Defense: C (You have duplicates of tiles, reducing the choices you have.)
Value: B (It's not worth that many points, but it can always be combined with riichi)

Kokushi Musou (1 of each terminal and honor, and a duplicate of the last 13)
Speed: F (It's a yakuman. Of course you can't just build it. But it's still the most straightforward one)
Offense: A (It can literally come out of nowhere, including tiles that should be safe like the 4th of an honor tile. However, your discards will imply something fishy)
Defense: S+ (You're keeping tiles that near the end that nobody can possibly ron off of, unless they're trying this too. Also, by keeping stray yakuhai, you're suppressing people's ability to pon and get a quick hand.)
Value: A (Doesn't come much, but because of the above is worth a try if you have 9 or more starting pieces)

Last but certainly not least:

Reach (With a closed hand that is in tenpai, place a 1000 bet and lock your hand)
Speed: -1 level to whatever your hand was, because of concealed unless you were going for something that requires concealed anyways.
Offense: -1 level due to people being altered
Defense: N/A (No shit)
Value: S (For some hands it's the only way to get a yaku; therefore it makes them infinitely better. Presence of ura dora and ipptasu bonuses make it very profitable to declare a riichi when possible, if conditions allow and if you have dora. Or if someone made more dora via kan.)
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Last edited by Archon_Wing; 2013-05-20 at 21:12.
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Old 2013-05-20, 21:07   Link #1418
Kyuu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Hmm, thanks to the abundance of dora per game, it seems that the yaku are more important to have one so you can go out. In this case I feel like ranking the yaku due to boredom, and feel free to tell me how wrong I am.
I like this aspect of Yaku vs Dora, where you can have like 12+ dora... but that won't mean anything without Yaku. Some flavor comes from the requirement of each hand to target specific yaku.

===
Extension to the post above:

Speed: Obviously the ease of compiling said hand
Offense: How hard it is for an opponent to dodge your yaku
Defense: If you're building the hand, and your opponent attacks or declares riichi. How good are your defensive options and contingency plans?
Value: Reward vs Effort. An easily attained 3900 points is better than a 8000 hand that never gets completed. In general, I mean is it worth going out of your way for it.

Ryanpeiko
Speed: F-. Good luck even getting it.
Offense: B. It can actually work like a pinfu, and definitely like Iipeiko (considering it has one of 'em already).
Defense: D. The rarity of ryanpeiko may actually make it difficult to make the decision to tear it apart.
Value: C. It takes a lot of effort to even get to ryanpeiko. With a pinfu-type wait, you may actually end up with a pinfu + iipeiko for a 2 han minimum.

Shousangen
Speed: C. The yakuhai component allows faster play; however, the need for all 3 Sangenpai involved slows down development.
Offense: C. Dependent on the open Sangenpai (if any). If two types are called, then this threatens Daisangen, which actually may force players to defend against it. If one type is open, then this lull players into presuming just a basic Yakuhai.
Defense: C. Dependent on the open Sangenpai (if any).
Value: B. 4 han minimum. Not too shabby here.

Honroto
Speed: D. Just like Toi Toi, but slower because of limited choices regarding Ankou and Pon.
Offense: D. Especially when Open, it becomes blatantly obvious.
Defense: B. High number of terminals and honors to choose from.
Value: B. 4 han minimum.

Sanshoku Doukou
Speed: F. Even fewer choices regarding Ankou and Pon than Honroto.
Offense: D. If 2 of the 3 number types are pon'd, then it can be very obvious.
Defense: D. This hand may encourage open play, and thus fewer choices to defend with.
Value: F. For the effort to even score this hand, it's not even worth much.

San Kansu
Speed: F--. This yaku is so difficult, certain yakuman are actually easier to attain.
Offense: C. Given a maximum of 4 tiles possible out of view, it is completely dependent on the wait type.
Defense: D. This yaku requires at least 3 groups of tiles called, including Ankan. With only 4 tiles to work with, that is a strain towards any effort to defend.
Value: C. While this yaku is listed as 2 han, the amount of fu attained will increase the value equivalent to 3 han.

===

By the way, my mahjong club had finished this past weekend a multitude of efforts pertaining to Anime Central (Chicago). We featured two panels on Japanese Mahjong as well as a whole evening for a tournament and freeplay. As an extra, more freeplay occurred unscheduled at two separate locations simultaneously.

Once I finish processing the tournament results, I will post them here.

Last edited by Kyuu; 2013-05-21 at 01:50.
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Old 2013-05-20, 22:31   Link #1419
Archon_Wing
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Ah, Kyuu, how are you doing on tenhou?

There's definitely a reason why I didn't list them, and that's because they're so rare that it's almost never in people's minds.

I would rate Shousangen a C for speed though, because it's reliant on you self drawing 2 of each dragon tile, which is really specific. The others I definitely agree with. Someone should list yakuman.
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Old 2013-05-20, 23:47   Link #1420
Kyuu
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Ah, Kyuu, how are you doing on tenhou?
Just one picture should sum it up right now:

Spoiler:


As far as Dan ranking is concerned... I am sitting at 10/800 on 2-Dan ranking. I'll have to throw myself back in there -- now that ACEN had passed. I should just deliberately drop rank and begin working back up again.

This "ranking" mentality translates over to Starcraft as well; and I hate it. It was one reason behind quitting chess a long time ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
There's definitely a reason why I didn't list them, and that's because they're so rare that it's almost never in people's minds.

I would rate Shousangen a C for speed though, because it's reliant on you self drawing 2 of each dragon tile, which is really specific. The others I definitely agree with. Someone should list yakuman.
My take on Yakuman. They either happen. Or they don't. It's pure luck of the draw to even try for them.
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