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Old 2012-07-13, 08:37   Link #1041
novalysis
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Again, I'd argue that Hagani doesn't necessarily have to be chained to conventions. And one can run a romance without a romantic challenger.

Explain what you mean by "basic storytelling"? Basic Storytelling of the Harem genre, where the confession is either the end of the story, or a rejection takes place? It's a phenomena very exclusive to anime in the world of fiction, and animes especially produced in the last ten years. Clannad Afterstory is one example of a Romance that continued 24 episodes beyond confession. There's an old anime, one of the first in the romance genre I've watched, called Itazrura no Kiss that spent more than half it's plot beyond the confirmation of couplings.

"Basic storytelling", to borrow Ajimu's words from Medaka Box is IMO is a cliche plague borrowed from "Shitty Love Comedies".
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Old 2012-07-13, 08:37   Link #1042
mironicus
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I like the message of this story, because it's just motivates you to "go out", "do something", "make friends", "don't stay alone".

Quote:
I don't think the mystery about Yukimura is going to be answered.
Well, the original intention of the author was just to implement some popular character types and he just invents some background information later if there is a need. I would like to see some interaction between Yukimura and Stella.

Quote:
Is the author married?
Well, there are no information about Hirasaki Yomi on the net. No photos, no birthday, his state, nothing. Just based on the liner notes he tells that Haganai is a story about himself, so he must have some sad memories.

So maybe he was a loner and he found a person that is so perfect for him that he now lives a fulfilled life. Well, maybe we will see a love confession from Kodaka later and the author expresses his feelings in humble and honest words that are directed to his own wife. That would be very romantic.

He is using Haganai to express his own feelings and the sensation to have friends after such a long time of being a social outcast. And this makes this novel very unique.

Quote:
Yozora sets off a couple of Kobato flags!
That's good. There is still hope for her!
Any interaction that is not violent and brings happiness is the right approach to cure herself from her phobia.

Last edited by mironicus; 2012-07-13 at 08:56.
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Old 2012-07-13, 08:47   Link #1043
potchip
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Quote:
Originally Posted by novalysis View Post
Again, I'd argue that Hagani doesn't necessarily have to be chained to conventions. And one can run a romance without a romantic challenger.

Explain what you mean by "basic storytelling"? Basic Storytelling of the Harem genre, where the confession is either the end of the story, or a rejection takes place? It's a phenomena very exclusive to anime in the world of fiction, and animes especially produced in the last ten years. Clannad Afterstory is one example of a Romance that continued 24 episodes beyond confession. There's an old anime, one of the first in the romance genre I've watched, called Itazrura no Kiss that spent more than half it's plot beyond the confirmation of couplings.

"Basic storytelling", to borrow Ajimu's words from Medaka Box is IMO is a cliche plague borrowed from "Shitty Love Comedies".
LNs tends to follow established patterns. They are 'light' for a reason, like anime is for escapism entertainment mostly. You can view LNs as serializing manga on a monthly magazine, except it's every 6 months, so cliff hangers abound, its part marketing part self preservation.

Just about every comedy LN written in first person has the main character as the narrator and the tsukkomi, whilst the other casts to provide the boke moments. As a result you won't get very distinctive personalities for the main. The role's already set.
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Old 2012-07-13, 08:58   Link #1044
kusanagi25
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So if all these 8 volumes were just the prologue Sena lost before it even started.
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Old 2012-07-13, 09:01   Link #1045
mironicus
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Only the default girl has also a family in this kind of stories.
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Old 2012-07-13, 09:09   Link #1046
Aeshma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by novalysis View Post
Explain what you mean by "basic storytelling"? Basic Storytelling of the Harem genre, where the confession is either the end of the story, or a rejection takes place?
Donīt be dense. You know well what I meant.
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Old 2012-07-13, 10:43   Link #1047
Johnny
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I wouldn't mind Kate being the end girl. She's both Sena aka wannabe sis-con and Yozora aka tsundere all in one package...

As far as those betting it all that the Sena route has been in set in stone even though this has all been a 'prologue'. Stay away from Vegas because you'll end up having to sell your hair at a wig shop...
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Old 2012-07-13, 11:00   Link #1048
mironicus
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Don't you think the author intends to make a good ending for every girl?

So
Volume 8 = Rika route (best friend)
Volume 9 = Sena route (romantic route, girl friend)
Volume 10 = Yukimura (personal maid)
Volume 11 = Yozora (friend)

Every volume has one girl as the main protagonist and at the end they have a new status for Kodaka and are somehow lucky/fulfilled/happy.

Last edited by mironicus; 2012-07-13 at 11:27.
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Old 2012-07-13, 11:08   Link #1049
Johnny
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I don't really ship a particular pairing. Well maybe Rika as the longshot, but now I'm really wanting to see Yozora as the end girl.

Last edited by CrowKenobi; 2012-07-13 at 11:40. Reason: Let's not get personal here...
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Old 2012-07-13, 12:07   Link #1050
evil|plushie
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Originally Posted by frivolity View Post
What worries me is the fact that Rika even lampshaded Sena's current rise by pointing out all the flags, which seems to suggest that the author is aware that many of Sena's cards have already been played and there's not much left for her. The fact that there's still a lot of questions left regarding Yozora, Yukimura, and Rika, imo, is actually beneficial for them in the bigger picture. Rather than seeing it as Haganai firmly being on the Sena route, I view it as Haganai being about to change focus to another character.

Nevertheless, I sincerely hope that the author can surprise me and take the novel in a direction I've never expected.

Still hoping Sena wins, but I'm more pessimistic than ever about that.
To be fair, Sena's development as a romantic partner has pretty much been developed throughout the ENTIRE series. It's not a new thing. Think there were hints since vol 1 about the engagement.

Although to be honest, I'm also hoping Sena ends up with Kodaka. Mostly because she can slap sense into kodaka apparently, as seen when he's talking a self-deprecating manner about how no one would be interested in a boring person like her and she goes "Let's make it clear, no one that I; Sena, would be interested in could possibly be a boring person". He kinda needs someone who can kick him in the ass when he's doing his self-deprecation.


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Originally Posted by mironicus View Post
To think Kodaka might be even interested in Yozora...? He pities her. Yozora gives him a horrible example of a person which already has given up and isolated herself from society which leads to an extremely unlucky life. Kodaka don't want to end like Yozora so he really wants to go out of this state even more. Yozora wants to become closer to him but in reality he wants to separate from her and his thoughts about the past. Yozora is not Sora anymore, she is a different person.
There's been no indication he pities Yozora. You're reading a lot of things into the situations.
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Old 2012-07-13, 14:36   Link #1051
mironicus
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Quote:
the author is aware that many of Sena's cards have already been played and there's not much left for her
All this talk about "playing out cards" is kind of... ? If I read comments like "She played out her card already, now she has no chance." or "She don't have any new cards, there is nothing new of a development, so she looses." and "She confessed to early, now she will loose". What kind of simple thinking is that?

Quote:
To be fair, Sena's development as a romantic partner has pretty much been developed throughout the ENTIRE series. It's not a new thing. Think there were hints since vol 1 about the engagement.
You don't say!

All those things related to the past doesn't really matter in this story. Relying on them just fails anyway.

"We were friends ten years ago, so he belongs to me. Now I just have to wait that he falls in love for me. *Wait, Wait, Wait, Wait* I am waiting! Stupid Kodaka, just tell me already that you love me! How long should I wait for you? Why don't you do anything at all? I am your childhood friend after all! I made this setting for you, why don't you confess to me? Argh! This stupid Meat is always talking to him about games and other things! Why don't he talk to me? Meat always gets his attention! Eat my fly swatter! Get away from him, you cow! Shoo! Shoo!"

Well, as in real life, there are no cards to rely on and Sena does not need any cards because she just talks to him casually from the beginning. A natural development takes place in the "present", they stay in contact and start to trust each other... while Yozora gets confused why he never approaches her and blames Sena for always getting his attention. And Kodaka "might" choose a girl he actually gotten to know in the present and not one who waits to be approached because she knew him ten years ago.

Think of Haganai as a kind of "manual" for natural loners: "How to approach others".

Quote:
He kinda needs someone who can kick him in the ass when he's doing his self-deprecation.
There is much more to discover. Just think about all the abilities Kodaka have and which he lacks of. And then compare this to a partner and think about how they complement each other in a possible relationship.
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Old 2012-07-13, 19:15   Link #1052
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mironicus View Post
All this talk about "playing out cards" is kind of... ? If I read comments like "She played out her card already, now she has no chance." or "She don't have any new cards, there is nothing new of a development, so she looses." and "She confessed to early, now she will loose". What kind of simple thinking is that?
The kind of "simple thinking" that comes from having read or watched way too many romantic anime/manga/novels over the years and seen how these plots generally develop. The developments in the story exist to serve the author. There is very little benefit from a storytelling perspective that could happen from Kodaka simply accepting Sena's confession right now. There is also very little benefit in Kodaka outright rejecting her confession either. Rather, I think what has the most benefit at this juncture in the story, for many reasons, is for him to say "let's be friends first and decide about the future later". This is significant from a narrative perspective (and continues the theme started in this past volume), and allows them to keep moving the story forward and address other issues. I think Kodaka will want to settle the outstanding issues before he commits to romance, and I think it is too soon for the story to fully tip its hand in terms of Kodaka's true feelings.

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Originally Posted by mironicus View Post
There is much more to discover. Just think about all the abilities Kodaka have and which he lacks of. And then compare this to a partner and think about how they complement each other in a possible relationship.
All of the different heroines in the story are designed to complement Kodaka in some way, but the final romantic partner doesn't usually have much to do with an opinion of who is most compatible. Shippers everywhere always believe their chosen heroine is the best match, for whatever reason.
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Old 2012-07-14, 03:20   Link #1053
frivolity
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^Yes, that in my opinion is the nature of light novels. We're not talking about an epic novel like Tolkien here, where the author has a goal in mind and will write his story until and only up to the point he reaches that goal. We're talking about a light novel series that is currently quite popular but could easily be pulled from the shelves if otaku trends shift unfavourably. Many times, the end girl is simply the one that's in the right position at the right time in terms of her relationship making the most sense at the point when the author is instructed by the editor/publishers to finish up the series due to waning demand.

@micronicus: This is why I said that I would agree with your posts if we're talking about a deep psychological novel here. In the case of Haganai, I don't think we can expect that kind of standard from the author. I could be wrong, and would in fact be happy to be wrong if the author ends up surprising me, but the impact that commercial considerations have on the plot is a factor that in my opinion should not be ignored. Sure, it is shallow and I agree that it's usually not the best way to write, but that is what I've observed in this genre in general.

The only exception I've read is ToraDora, but a novel like that where the author closes off the story at the point she intended all along without trying to milk the series with more extensions appears to be the exception rather than the rule.

Last edited by frivolity; 2012-07-14 at 03:40.
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Old 2012-07-14, 04:23   Link #1054
sky black swordman
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Originally Posted by mironicus View Post

"We were friends ten years ago, so he belongs to me. Now I just have to wait that he falls in love for me. *Wait, Wait, Wait, Wait* I am waiting! Stupid Kodaka, just tell me already that you love me! How long should I wait for you? Why don't you do anything at all? I am your childhood friend after all! I made this setting for you, why don't you confess to me? Argh! This stupid Meat is always talking to him about games and other things! Why don't he talk to me? Meat always gets his attention! Eat my fly swatter! Get away from him, you cow! Shoo! Shoo!"
This sound to me in a way a how should I say this well if yozora breaks down like I think she might is what she will say or something close to this.

IMO think there is more to Yozoras problem's them just the Kodoka thing . IMO I think something happen before she meet Kodoka and after Kodoka left . For one reason or another I get this feeling. But then Again I can be wrong.
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Old 2012-07-15, 08:47   Link #1055
mironicus
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Well, the important point for me in Haganai is the perspective from a loner that was integrated within the characters. And this makes this novel standing out amongst the other ones - the typical harem series. The author knows what he writes about (he is/was a loner and Haganai is maybe a cathartic exercise for him).

The story focus now on Kodaka and how he finally
Spoiler:
If the author continues what he aims for - he wants the main character to lead a happy and fulfilled life, then this novel will be probably develop like Clannad Afterstory (without any drama, it's still a comedy with a positive undertone): Girlfriend, pregnancy, marriage, kids/family. Maybe the author wants to describe all this steps until the end (like the Rika ending in the PSP game).

Last edited by mironicus; 2012-07-15 at 09:07.
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Old 2012-07-15, 11:10   Link #1056
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mironicus View Post
The story focus now on Kodaka and how he finally
Spoiler:
If the author continues what he aims for - he wants the main character to lead a happy and fulfilled life, then this novel will be probably develop like Clannad Afterstory (without any drama, it's still a comedy with a positive undertone): Girlfriend, pregnancy, marriage, kids/family. Maybe the author wants to describe all this steps until the end (like the Rika ending in the PSP game).
You're definitely skipping about 100 steps in between. What happened at the end of Volume 8 is not the end of the battle, but only the beginning. They're not transitioning from the prologue straight into the epilogue; now is when the real story begins. Now he has to begin to fight for his own happiness and decide what he wants to do and what he wants his relationship with each of the members of the club to be. He may have come to a realization, but he has not yet overcome. So, no, it's not time to transition to the After Story; it's time for the real story to start. That's what it means to be at the end of the Prologue. The biggest conflicts and struggles -- even and particularly on the relationship front -- are yet to come.
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Old 2012-07-15, 12:04   Link #1057
mironicus
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Quote:
Now he has to begin to fight for his own happiness and decide what he wants to do and what he wants his relationship with each of the members of the club to be
Spoiler:

I hope he don't get narcissistic after all his luck.
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Old 2012-07-15, 14:09   Link #1058
CrowKenobi
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Location: there... just there.
The arduous task ahead for Kodaka is to sort through those items presented before him on said "silver tray."

And I would like to point out that Yozora is the elephant in the room who's relationship to Kodaka needs to be dealt with before the "after story" happens (no matter how much you dismiss it).
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Old 2012-07-15, 15:21   Link #1059
mironicus
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Why should he wait for Yozora to recover from her past friendship memories? Yozora's active part of the story seems to be already concluded, so he don't have to deal with her anyway. He is free and Rika is his best friend now. Some time ago I thought that she could have a chance to recover her friendship with him but of course, Kodaka can't consider someone as a friend he can't trust.
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Old 2012-07-15, 15:46   Link #1060
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I believe you're overestimating Kodaka's willingness to move beyond his comfort zone.
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