AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Current Series > Sword Art Online

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2012-07-13, 09:17   Link #1141
Nightengale
~Night of Gales~
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aphrah View Post
I think it's a matter of perspective. I understand where you're coming from, but I don't agree; it's as you said, the Aincrad arc is difficult to beat in terms of 'grand scale story telling', but does it really have to be beaten by the other arcs for them to be more enjoyable? Continuity is an enjoyable aspect on it's own. And of course, it depends on what the reader considers 'grand scale story telling' to encompass.

And even if they've been through much worse, it doesn't necessarily mean that they'll get through their next obstacles and dilemmas scot-free, as those obstacles and dilemmas could very well be their breaking point(s).
Don't get me wrong, I immensely enjoy the other story arcs. In fact, I'm actually glad that post-Aincrad stories didn't try to be Aincrad 2.0, and that the stories have been diverse in its atmosphere and character development.

I mean... ultimately, this is a story about a few teenagers being immersed in an MMORPG and discovering themselves, reconciliation, friendship and even love. ( a lot of one-sided ones ) I don't read for SAO to be cynical and for teh grimdark, even if the author can be damn good at making them.

I just feel that there's always something that Aincrad that makes people go back to the original SAO setting, and unfortunately, draw comparisons between the story arcs in their focus characters and how the story played out.
__________________
Night~and~Gale: ~ The Final Mythology of the Man who Defied Destiny.

The sleeping lion shall awaken beyond the depths of time, crossing ten billion lights, come to Terra.
Nightengale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-13, 09:23   Link #1142
novalysis
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
I think the more frustrating part of the Aincrad arc is the fact that it is intrinsically fragmentary. To be honest, I did feel that, comparing Aria to 74th floor, Aria's writing felt more crisper, even superior- let alone the Carthatic fest of Red Nose Reindeer, where Kirito feels very, very real, and the "death game" setting of SAO is explored to it's full horror. Honestly speaking, I'd say that comparing Aincrad with Post-Aincrad misses the point. Both deal with the ongoing story of the two main characters, but bear differing themes.

It's frustrating to read and smile at Aria, and it's incomplete sequels, Rondo and Monochrome, to wonder what led to the events of the Black Cats, to only seeing only a tantalizing fragment of the nadir of Kirito at the end of Red Nose Reindeer. And realizing that if you saw the full story in a Shounen Length manga, you'd probably be at chapter 100 at least by the end of Red Nose Reindeer. And then to realize that you've only read highlights of those 100 chapters. And Volume 1, while a strong story on it's own is like reading the entire Climatic Arc, while realizing there's so much development hinted, but never covered beyond the briefest of snapshots in the Side Stories.

One could argue that each of the arcs are unique in it's own way. Aincrad is that great arc whose story hasn't been completely fully told. ALO is the conclusion and final resolution of the Aincrad arc, while opening the door to the Post-Aincrad problems. GGO is unfinished Business, yet has the smell of an entirely different genre from what we feel from SAO, hence arguing that Aincrad is more epic misses the point, since GGO is more equivalent to a new phase in life, if anything else, with a still compelling set of issues.

I've not worked my way through Mother's Rosario, but I heard it's an emotional ride that puts Red Nose Reindeer to shame, and that was, in my view, the height of the focus of the grand tragedy that was SAO's first arc.

Alicization seems to bring back the Life and Death factor - indeed, one could argue that there's something grand about Alicization in itself. Yes, the sufferings and experiences shared by 10 000 souls adds a granduer to Aincrad, and the rest of the arcs seemed down to Earth, but the delightful thing about the later volumes is the "what happens next" aspect to the whole thing.

The fascinating thing about SAO is that it seems far more is devoted to What Happens Next, then to What Happens in Aincard, and yet, some of the most powerful moments happen after Aincrad, like the epic denouement of ALO or the ending of GGO (which was amazing in the raw emotions pouring through that page, that's the only way I can describe it).

That doesn't downplay what happens in that floating Castle, of course. But it speaks volumes of the ability of the author, even after the most epic part of his tale. Each arc possess merits of it's own- indeed, I found the opening scene of GGO unforgettable, and I'd say it'll impress quite alot of people once GGO starts animating.

And even after Alicization, there's quite alot of directions this can go to. Intrigue has always been an underlying element in SAO, even more so in the later arcs, and one wonders about the trials Kirito and Asuna will enter in, if take on challenges greater in scope then mere survival, though not necessarily in danger.
novalysis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-13, 09:52   Link #1143
Rayrah
Senior Member
*Graphic Designer
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Age: 20
Send a message via MSN to Rayrah
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post
I mean... ultimately, this is a story about a few teenagers being immersed in an MMORPG and discovering themselves, reconciliation, friendship and even love. ( a lot of one-sided ones ) I don't read for SAO to be cynical and for teh grimdark, even if the author can be damn good at making them.

I just feel that there's always something that Aincrad that makes people go back to the original SAO setting, and unfortunately, draw comparisons between the story arcs in their focus characters and how the story played out.
Indeed it is.

Hm, I wonder if that's just a matter of people loving to compare and contrast similar things (be they stories, arcs, characters, etc.). I don't think it helps that the name of the series is gotten from the first arc, either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by novalysis View Post
I think the more frustrating part of the Aincrad arc is the fact that it is intrinsically fragmentary. To be honest, I did feel that, comparing Aria to 74th floor, Aria's writing felt more crisper, even superior- let alone the Carthatic fest of Red Nose Reindeer, where Kirito feels very, very real, and the "death game" setting of SAO is explored to it's full horror. Honestly speaking, I'd say that comparing Aincrad with Post-Aincrad misses the point. Both deal with the ongoing story of the two main characters, but bear differing themes.

It's frustrating to read and smile at Aria, and it's incomplete sequels, Rondo and Monochrome, to wonder what led to the events of the Black Cats, to only seeing only a tantalizing fragment of the nadir of Kirito at the end of Red Nose Reindeer. And realizing that if you saw the full story in a Shounen Length manga, you'd probably be at chapter 100 at least by the end of Red Nose Reindeer. And then to realize that you've only read highlights of those 100 chapters. And Volume 1, while a strong story on it's own is like reading the entire Climatic Arc, while realizing there's so much development hinted, but never covered beyond the briefest of snapshots in the Side Stories.

One could argue that each of the arcs are unique in it's own way. Aincrad is that great arc whose story hasn't been completely fully told. ALO is the conclusion and final resolution of the Aincrad arc, while opening the door to the Post-Aincrad problems. GGO is unfinished Business, yet has the smell of an entirely different genre from what we feel from SAO, hence arguing that Aincrad is more epic misses the point, since GGO is more equivalent to a new phase in life, if anything else, with a still compelling set of issues.

I've not worked my way through Mother's Rosario, but I heard it's an emotional ride that puts Red Nose Reindeer to shame, and that was, in my view, the height of the focus of the grand tragedy that was SAO's first arc.

Alicization seems to bring back the Life and Death factor - indeed, one could argue that there's something grand about Alicization in itself. Yes, the sufferings and experiences shared by 10 000 souls adds a granduer to Aincrad, and the rest of the arcs seemed down to Earth, but the delightful thing about the later volumes is the "what happens next" aspect to the whole thing.

The fascinating thing about SAO is that it seems far more is devoted to What Happens Next, then to What Happens in Aincard, and yet, some of the most powerful moments happen after Aincrad, like the epic denouement of ALO or the ending of GGO (which was amazing in the raw emotions pouring through that page, that's the only way I can describe it).

That doesn't downplay what happens in that floating Castle, of course. But it speaks volumes of the ability of the author, even after the most epic part of his tale. Each arc possess merits of it's own- indeed, I found the opening scene of GGO unforgettable, and I'd say it'll impress quite alot of people once GGO starts animating.
Couldn't have said it better myself; agreed on all accounts.

Quote:
And even after Alicization, there's quite alot of directions this can go to. Intrigue has always been an underlying element in SAO, even more so in the later arcs, and one wonders about the trials Kirito and Asuna will enter in, if take on challenges greater in scope then mere survival, though not necessarily in danger.
Agreed yet again. As for there being multiple directions for it go after Alicization, does it really need to continue, other than for the sake of continuity?
Rayrah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-13, 10:01   Link #1144
novalysis
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
If it does, it's a very different genre altogether. For one, it'll likely be a tale told not from the eyes of a Teenager, which would probably make it very Seinen. For another, I'd think Kirito is heading for a path that puts him in Heartcliff's and Obereon's world, where the temptations facing him would likely be moral in nature, and some of the options quite grey. One could argue that ALO hinted at such a world. And the fact that I suspect Kirito is coming of age into a world that would hit a technological singularity in his life-time, and he likely would be on the front-lines in the journey towards that - being the proud co-owner of the first sentient A.I would do that, and if more advance A.Is like Yui or Alice start appearing, I'd imagine Kirito and Asuna would be very popular among them.

It's ironic when the former Lab Rat becomes the Scientist so to speak.

Can SAO go down that route? Probably, but it might make the days of Aincrad look simple instead- indeed, Alicization isn't as straight forward as Aincrad. I think if the author ends after Alicization, it'll be because it'll be hard to write a Technological/Business/Political Intrigue Sci-fi thriller well. Also, probably because Aincrad is still a not fully told story- were it as self contained and cohesive a narrative as Fairy Dance or the Death gun Arc, it definitely would have stretched probably more than a dozen volumes.

Speaking of which, I think it is interesting that readers who know of how the Aincrad arc ends also wants to know the journey itself, not just the last phase of it.

Mind you, I'm talking through the lenses of someone who reads the beginning and ending, before deciding whether I want to read the Journey.
novalysis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-13, 10:06   Link #1145
Rayrah
Senior Member
*Graphic Designer
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Age: 20
Send a message via MSN to Rayrah
Quote:
Originally Posted by novalysis View Post
If it does, it's a very different genre altogether. For one, it'll likely be a tale told not from the eyes of a Teenager, which would probably make it very Seinen. For another, I'd think Kirito is heading for a path that puts him in Heartcliff's and Obereon's world, where the temptations facing him would likely be moral.

It's ironic when the former Lab Rat becomes the Scientist so to speak.
Mhm. And it's not something I'd like to see, due to my hatred of unnecessary continuations. But the one advantage he says over Heartcliff and Obereon is that he has Asuna; I don't recall either of them having somebody like her.

Heh, quite.
Rayrah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-13, 10:12   Link #1146
Nightengale
~Night of Gales~
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by novalysis View Post
If it does, it's a very different genre altogether.
Hmm?

Low-fantasy MMORPG => high-fantasy MMORPG => FPS + Jedi Knight series => JRPG => Scientist Simulator => ???

__________________
Night~and~Gale: ~ The Final Mythology of the Man who Defied Destiny.

The sleeping lion shall awaken beyond the depths of time, crossing ten billion lights, come to Terra.
Nightengale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-13, 10:14   Link #1147
novalysis
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aphrah View Post
Mhm. And it's not something I'd like to see, due to my hatred of unnecessary continuations. But the one advantage he says over Heartcliff and Obereon is that he has Asuna; I don't recall either of them having somebody like her.

Heh, quite.
That's an interesting dynamics. But yeah, I would agree, if SAO continues, it becomes a very different story. Already, GGO is a very different tale from SAO in feel. It's like you are seeing Kirito and Asuna walking down a potentially deep rabbit hole here, if you want to be cynical.

Then again, both have very firm moral compasses, so it could make for an interesting tale in it's own. Not that the author might go there, but it's good fanfic fuel.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post
Hmm?

Low-fantasy MMORPG => high-fantasy MMORPG => FPS + Jedi Knight series => JRPG => Scientist Simulator => ???


Fantasy Civilization World Building Simulator (Underworld)=> Political and Business Intrigues, merely by being married to Asuna and into her family, and also by his likely prodigious scientific talents as a researcher. Well, that's how I'd see it going, if it went on.

You know, if something like GGO came out, we won't have tens of thousands of players. You see the Modern Warfare/Halo/Call of Duty fanbase? They number in the millions world-wide, and I think a game of GGO could easily end up with millions of middle class subscribers who treat it as every FPS fan wet dream come true. Since FPS is well in the mainstream of Video Games today... really, GGO is VRFPS with MMO elements, not VRMMO.

Actually, I wonder whether there'd be an Eve-online game equivalent arc. With the same drama as Eve online.
novalysis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-13, 10:51   Link #1148
Rayrah
Senior Member
*Graphic Designer
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Age: 20
Send a message via MSN to Rayrah
Quote:
Originally Posted by novalysis View Post
That's an interesting dynamics. But yeah, I would agree, if SAO continues, it becomes a very different story. Already, GGO is a very different tale from SAO in feel. It's like you are seeing Kirito and Asuna walking down a potentially deep rabbit hole here, if you want to be cynical.

Then again, both have very firm moral compasses, so it could make for an interesting tale in it's own. Not that the author might go there, but it's good fanfic fuel.
That it would. As a romance buff, I'd like to think that as long as they have each other, and their moral compasses remain intact, no rabbit hole will be too deep for them to climb out of. ;p
Rayrah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-13, 11:25   Link #1149
maelstormCaT
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aphrah View Post
That it would. As a romance buff, I'd like to think that as long as they have each other, and their moral compasses remain intact, no rabbit hole will be too deep for them to climb out of. ;p
As a non romance buff, I cannot disagree with that assessment either.

Speaking of which, anyone read vol 10 yet? summarize it for me please
The wait is so painful. Is anyone in baka-tsuki translating it atm?
maelstormCaT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-13, 11:37   Link #1150
Rayrah
Senior Member
*Graphic Designer
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Age: 20
Send a message via MSN to Rayrah
Quote:
Originally Posted by maelstormCaT View Post
Speaking of which, anyone read vol 10 yet? summarize it for me please
The wait is so painful. Is anyone in baka-tsuki translating it atm?
I know that one member here is waiting on his copy of volume 10, and I imagine they might post the summary once the get it and read through it all. I'm not giving a name because I don't want to cause any problems for that person.

That it is. And yeah, BT will be translating volume 10. Translating is no easy job, and it will take a good bit of time to do so.
Rayrah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-13, 13:15   Link #1151
Utsuro no Hako
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post
Hmm?

Low-fantasy MMORPG => high-fantasy MMORPG => FPS + Jedi Knight series => JRPG => Scientist Simulator => ???

Eroge, of course.
Utsuro no Hako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-13, 14:32   Link #1152
Netto Azure
→ Asada Shino
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Space Battle Cruiser Gurokken
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako View Post
Eroge, of course.
Oh my...That would be lulzy. But we got short eroge's already if you think about it. xP
__________________
Netto Azure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-14, 01:54   Link #1153
Craxuan
Crax
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: MY
I'll try and read through Book 10 quickly, but note that I'm not a native Japanese speaker so progress will be much, much slower than I was reading the other chapters. Though I might get a more thorough understanding as well since I have the tendency to skim through things that I consider irrelevant.

And, kind of repeating what I've mentioned earlier in the wrong thread, but we're finally getting a real, much more complete VR journey as compared to the SAO arc (even with the many, many Extra Stories it just feels not enough). Not only that, Kirito also gets a new rival that he acknowledges will very like surpass him in a short time.

Also, Kirito might choose to leave his real life (certainly such a dilemma will occur a few miles into the story) and stay in that world permanently. That choice is certainly there, as foreshadowed by the black girl (forgot her name, from Mother Rosario arc).
__________________
Craxuan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-14, 02:09   Link #1154
Dann of Thursday
WHERE'S...MY...COW????
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Illinois, U.S.A.
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craxuan View Post
Also, Kirito might choose to leave his real life (certainly such a dilemma will occur a few miles into the story) and stay in that world permanently. That choice is certainly there, as foreshadowed by the black girl (forgot her name, from Mother Rosario arc).
That would be rather...depressing, would it not? At least I think so, though the idea is sort of there even in SAO to a degree though in that case Kirito has a strong motivation to getting out of the game in Asuna. She sort of remains that really.
__________________
By the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes.

"Nearly all men can stand adversity, if you want to test a man's character give him power." - Abraham Lincoln
Dann of Thursday is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-14, 03:16   Link #1155
Fallen3dge
Darkest Light
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craxuan View Post

Also, Kirito might choose to leave his real life (certainly such a dilemma will occur a few miles into the story) and stay in that world permanently. That choice is certainly there, as foreshadowed by the black girl (forgot her name, from Mother Rosario arc).
Major spoiler, do not read if you're wary but as titled according to chinese readers of web novel

Spoiler for ending of alicization:
Fallen3dge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-14, 03:53   Link #1156
Craxuan
Crax
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: MY
This time, not really. Lily... or whoever that childhood girl name was is a very big motivation for him to stay in that world. Asuna has always remained the strongest contender and love for Kirito because the other girls had stayed out of her way, but Lily is different from them. In fact, she looks very much like an Asuna clone (a possible version of her had life turned out that way) and that alone may spark Kirito's transfer of love.

... Well that being said, we all know how the story will end. If this was Kirito's journey alone that would've been fine, but the new male character will most likely take Lily as his lover, and will most definitely best Kirito in a fair fight. And Kirito will go back and happy end. Again.

If I was the writer, I will have Kirito realize that his true calling was ultimately in VR no matter how he tries to deny it, and his relationship with Asuna will grow distant because of that. At the end of the story he might even go for a soul searching journey.

EDIT: Is that spoiler from Book 10? That would be amazingly fast... =.=" Though it definitely rhymes with the author's writing style.
__________________

Last edited by Craxuan; 2012-07-14 at 04:07.
Craxuan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-14, 04:33   Link #1157
Awrya
U mad?
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craxuan View Post
EDIT: Is that spoiler from Book 10? That would be amazingly fast... =.=" Though it definitely rhymes with the author's writing style.
Spoiler for ending:
__________________
Awrya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-14, 04:40   Link #1158
Fallen3dge
Darkest Light
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craxuan View Post
This time, not really. Lily... or whoever that childhood girl name was is a very big motivation for him to stay in that world. Asuna has always remained the strongest contender and love for Kirito because the other girls had stayed out of her way, but Lily is different from them. In fact, she looks very much like an Asuna clone (a possible version of her had life turned out that way) and that alone may spark Kirito's transfer of love.

... Well that being said, we all know how the story will end. If this was Kirito's journey alone that would've been fine, but the new male character will most likely take Lily as his lover, and will most definitely best Kirito in a fair fight. And Kirito will go back and happy end. Again.

If I was the writer, I will have Kirito realize that his true calling was ultimately in VR no matter how he tries to deny it, and his relationship with Asuna will grow distant because of that. At the end of the story he might even go for a soul searching journey.

EDIT: Is that spoiler from Book 10? That would be amazingly fast... =.=" Though it definitely rhymes with the author's writing style.
Its from further down the web novels? i guess its at v14?
Fallen3dge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-14, 06:01   Link #1159
Meltyred
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Someone tell me Kazuto does more umbrella into sword action in the real world, or was that only a one time thing?

And judging from the spoilers, does he end up connected to a IV for a long period of time again?
Meltyred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-14, 06:05   Link #1160
novalysis
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
@ Craxuan Alice you mean? Based on the Baka Tsuki translation?

Hmm, if Alice is indeed Asuna's mindstate cloned (probably as a result of data from Oberon's experiments) , that may well be yet another connection between Alicization and Aincrad. More sobering, if Kirito is alive, and was defeated by Eugeo, what would happen to humanity once those minds can manifest themselves in the real world? A technology, mind you, that Kirito is now working on the proto-concept from, and I'd suspect he'd be remembered, among other things, as also the genius who first created and successfully commercialized the means for A.I Avatars to manifest themselves in the real world.

By the way, technically speaking, is the fact that Yui is probably the first true A.I still a complete secret? Though odds are, if Kirito becomes one of RECTO owners, Yui may well volunteer to assist RECTO's efforts to ensure and create friendly A.Is.

Edit: Are there any Doujins of Asuna, Lisbeth, Sinon, Lyfa and Silica in a Slice of Life Girl-friendship story in the vein of Yuru Yuri or K-on ?
novalysis is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
action, gaming, harem, kirito, romance, shounen, tragedy, virtual reality

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:17.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.