AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Current Series > Sword Art Online

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2012-07-14, 06:46   Link #1161
Craxuan
Crax
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: MY
Which is what I meant by whatever Alicization story will be, Kirito will ultimately in the end more drawn towards the VR world than reality. He understands that being No.1 in MMO is nothing but a child's dream, and yet he cannot help but dream of it. Eugeo's existence (assuming that's his name, since I read the Chinese translation and not English) as a strong rival and apparent genius in swordfighting shook him badly even as he shaped him up to become a great warrior.

Kirito's strength and performance has been falling little by little throughout the many arcs. I am pretty sure he notices that. Ever since SAO, which is when he is at the peak of his strength, he has been on the sliding scale in hopes of searching his meaning of life in reality, and that was Asuna. During GGO he mentions that he wasn't sure that he could beat Death Gun, which was supposed to be an easy opponent if you consider his former strength.

During Mother Rosario's route, he noticed that a KID girl was outfighting him, and noted that if she was in SAO the Dual Blade Wielding skill would've been inherited by her. The first fight was an intentional lost, but the second the KID beat him fair and square, who was supposed to be the 'hero' who saved SAO.

At the beginning of Alicization, Kirito once again noted his weakness, telling Gun Girl that he is much weaker and was no longer able to predict a bullet's trajectory. It's hard not to notice that Kirito is in a depressing dilemma that he is losing his one and only, proudest skill, which kind of explain my own question on why he participated in the Alicizing experiment in the first place. It was suspicious as hell, with the cannot remember memories and sht.

Even the girl himself told Asuna that she should watch over Kirito, because he gave people the feeling that he might just disappear some place far, far away. Asuna was probably Kirito's only reason to stay in the real world. Notice that Kirito's seems to sleep more and more after he returned to reality? That was probably a subconscious way for him to escape from reality and desire to return to the Virtual World.

EDIT: I'm not sure whether Yui is still a secret, but she is definitely known among their circle of friends and probably by the higher ups too.
__________________
Craxuan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-14, 07:01   Link #1162
novalysis
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Then I shudder to think what happens if Kirito lost Asuna.

On the other hand, one could argue that Kirito by all accounts has a good chance of being a highly successful person in the real world. He is a skilled and talented individual in reality, and is likely going to be at the forefront of the virtual revolution.

You know, at the end of the day, I suspect the answer behind Heartcliff's madness is precisely the same reason why Kirito feels that strange disconnect with reality you suggest. Unlike Heartcliff, Kirito has Asuna to anchor him to existence.

Of course, the thing is, in the Real World, he faces very different battles - in a sense, Aincrad was a simpler time for Kirito. The thing is, I think a certain mature tendency of his acknowledges his own self-worth in the real world, that convinces him that he can go where Kayaba threaded, without falling into the moral pitfalls.

What then, would you make that long talk that Kirito had with Asuna and Sinon on his future plans in the real world, of his desire to pursue research and be there at the elapsing technological revolution?

Ironically, Kirito just might win the prize Oberon sought, but far more morally.

I think you are underestimating Kirito a little. Yes, the Underworld is an escape. It however is an escape that Kazuto would likely consciously reject. Ultimately, Kazuto is a "Powerless Gamer" for now, but not necessarily for long. He's not someone without prospects in the real-life, though certainly, his motivations are slightly different - one could argue that his motivations are those around him, and a certain sense of moral compass probably explains why he rejected the Underworld.

Even if "There is only One Ultimate way" suggests a hilarious compromise solution.

Indeed, I wonder whether Kayaba too wanted to "disappear somewhere far, far away" when he created Aincrad, and trapped 10000 people to keep him company.
novalysis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-14, 07:07   Link #1163
Craxuan
Crax
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: MY
Well actually, I didn't underestimate him, I'm just lining out his various conflicting desires. He clearly learned from his VR experiences that being Solo would not solve everything. To throw away what he has now in pursuit of his own selfish desires would make him no better than Oberon or Kayaba, and he doesn't want that.

The entire SAO story was one happy ending after another, so it's expected that he'll turn back before jumping off the cliff lol... though if it was I he would've jumped off the cliff and murder someone along the way muhahahahahahhahahahahahha
__________________
Craxuan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-14, 07:32   Link #1164
novalysis
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craxuan View Post
Well actually, I didn't underestimate him, I'm just lining out his various conflicting desires. He clearly learned from his VR experiences that being Solo would not solve everything. To throw away what he has now in pursuit of his own selfish desires would make him no better than Oberon or Kayaba, and he doesn't want that.

The entire SAO story was one happy ending after another, so it's expected that he'll turn back before jumping off the cliff lol... though if it was I he would've jumped off the cliff and murder someone along the way muhahahahahahhahahahahahha
Actually, it's one "Earn your Happy Ending" after another.

It could be that he fears ending up like Oberon or Kayaba, in his attempt to follow their footsteps and find out what drove at least that nobly charismatic Heartcliff to perform that atrocity that scarred both him and Asuna for life.

I think without SAO, Kirito may well have become a "villainous" character, since I am of the view that he is a genius every bit the equal of Kayaba and possibly with quite a good deal in common in terms of basic character, and a certain disillusionment with reality before the events of SAO. Actually, there should be a for Want of a Nail Fanfic where Kirito becomes as evil as Kayaba, and jump off that figurative cliff you are talking about.
novalysis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-14, 07:38   Link #1165
Craxuan
Crax
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: MY
Lol, you just need to take away the character Asuna from SAO, and there would be a 99% chance where Kirito becomes evil.
__________________
Craxuan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-14, 07:43   Link #1166
novalysis
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craxuan View Post
Lol, you just need to take away the character Asuna from SAO, and there would be a 99% chance where Kirito becomes evil.
Agreed. Pre RNR Kirito is a rather insecure, selfish and at times immature dick, though with some level of decency to him.

What happened to the Black Cats cured that for good - in my view, Red Nose Reindeer is the humanization of Kirito, while Asuna was his reason for going forward. No SAO, no RNR, and almost certainly no Asuna, and Kirito may well have been, at best, a rather amoral , and at "self-centric" character

When one looks closely, you realize you are reading about a person with certain characteristics predisposed to become that of a villain, until certain life-experiences change that completely.
novalysis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-14, 07:56   Link #1167
Craxuan
Crax
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: MY
The Black Cats incident nearly turned him into a suicidal monster, if it wasn't for another 'HAND OF GOD' intervention where he accidentally read the final message lol...
__________________
Craxuan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-14, 07:56   Link #1168
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
He was insecure, but when was he selfish? If he was selfish, he wouldn't have taken the time to help Klein. He wouldn't have joined the Black Cats either.

It's true he could have stayed in Starting City with Klein, but as Klein said, it was asking for a lot. Kirito had perfectly good reasons to want to join the scramble for the top, and he couldn't have done that while babysitting a bunch of beginners in those crucial moments at the beginning.
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-14, 08:37   Link #1169
novalysis
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
He was insecure, but when was he selfish? If he was selfish, he wouldn't have taken the time to help Klein. He wouldn't have joined the Black Cats either.

It's true he could have stayed in Starting City with Klein, but as Klein said, it was asking for a lot. Kirito had perfectly good reasons to want to join the scramble for the top, and he couldn't have done that while babysitting a bunch of beginners in those crucial moments at the beginning.
You could argue from hindsight that this was not the best course of action of course, and certainly, Asuna herself started a week later, yet was of similar strength to Kirito.

Certainly, he took his time to help Klein- but this was before the survival game begun.

It's also worth noting that Post RNR Kirito exhibited alot of behavior that initial Kirito would not have done. Lazing around, spending hours watching over Asuna, helping Silica, etc.

I think the truth is, before RNR and the Black Cats, Kirito wasn't the most mature of persons, and was much more selfish compared to his Volume 1, Black Swordsman and Murder self.

Yes, Kirito joined the Black Cats because of his loneliness. I think that realization of his loneliness was really the start of his move away from the less attractive aspects of himself. Truth to be told, SAO changed Kirito for the better, by a great, great deal.

I think one of the difficulties with making judgement on Kirito's Pre-Black Cat behavior is that we see very little of it. I personally interpret that Kirito was a morally ambiguous character that could have fallen into either side of the alignment until Aincrad changed him massively, and fixed his moral compass on the right path.

Ultimately, until the space between Aria and RNR is filled up, I think we would tend to look at Kirito through the lens of his later selves. Again, I point out to the fact that the Aincrad arc is really only a fraction of SAO's tale so far, and furthermore, is quite fragmentary.

But I do think that Pre-SAO Kirito did have the potential to end up like Kayaba, something out of the question for Post-Aincrad, Post-Asuna Kirito.
novalysis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-14, 10:55   Link #1170
novalysis
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
And with the completion of Mother's Rosario, I think I've mostly caught up with all the LN Material just translated.

Mother's Rosario is mindbogglingly good, even as a stand-alone story. Infact, I'd argue that if you want to convince a skeptic to read SAO, ask him to read Mother's Rosario. All of it. It'll definitely convert him.

But yes, I now see why Kirito's presence in reality seems so ephermal at times.Since Mother's Rosario is told from Asuna's PoV (and boy, this is goes very deeply into Asuna's psyche), I can see now the disconnect between that Highly Intelligent and innovative boy, and the man whose touch on reality at times seems weak.

Still, surely Kirito should be patenting that genius invention of his that he made for Yuuki? That must be worth millions- just imagine the demand for such things!
novalysis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-14, 11:26   Link #1171
Awrya
U mad?
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Just wanted to say that they last few posts discussing Kirito's character are better off in the Character Discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by novalysis View Post
Still, surely Kirito should be patenting that genius invention of his that he made for Yuuki? That must be worth millions- just imagine the demand for such things!
Actually, isn't the device Yuuki used an extension of what Kirito made for Yui in the Excaliber side story? Yuuki's version is much more compact though.

I don't think what Kirito made was some world changing invention. What it basically allowed was for someone currently in a VR world to connect to the real world.
The demand for it wouldn't be that high, considering that use is rather limited. It already exists in the form of Skype/messengers (whatever they have in the SAO world and used when both are not logged in) and the doctors could interact with Yuuki even before Kirito invented it (when both are logged in). It could save the doctors the need to log in themselves, but it really isn't that big of an improvement.
__________________
Awrya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-14, 11:52   Link #1172
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by novalysis View Post
You could argue from hindsight that this was not the best course of action of course,
In retrospect, sure...

Quote:
and certainly, Asuna herself started a week later, yet was of similar strength to Kirito.
Not even close if he uses Dual Blades. Besides, Asuna's a pretty girl. She's had it much easier than a socially awkward kid like Kirito.

Quote:
Certainly, he took his time to help Klein- but this was before the survival game begun.
He was willing to take him along after.

Quote:
It's also worth noting that Post RNR Kirito exhibited alot of behavior that initial Kirito would not have done. Lazing around, spending hours watching over Asuna, helping Silica, etc.

I think the truth is, before RNR and the Black Cats, Kirito wasn't the most mature of persons, and was much more selfish compared to his Volume 1, Black Swordsman and Murder self.

Yes, Kirito joined the Black Cats because of his loneliness. I think that realization of his loneliness was really the start of his move away from the less attractive aspects of himself. Truth to be told, SAO changed Kirito for the better, by a great, great deal.

I think one of the difficulties with making judgement on Kirito's Pre-Black Cat behavior is that we see very little of it. I personally interpret that Kirito was a morally ambiguous character that could have fallen into either side of the alignment until Aincrad changed him massively, and fixed his moral compass on the right path.

Ultimately, until the space between Aria and RNR is filled up, I think we would tend to look at Kirito through the lens of his later selves. Again, I point out to the fact that the Aincrad arc is really only a fraction of SAO's tale so far, and furthermore, is quite fragmentary.
That's my biggest problem with taking Aria as canon. He's presented there as already altruistic and laid-back.

I'm not saying you aren't right about SAO changing him for the better. I'm not saying he was a saint when he started. But I can't really describe him as selfish either.

Quote:
But I do think that Pre-SAO Kirito did have the potential to end up like Kayaba,
That... has very little basis. He was good with computers, but not a genius or anything. Plus, even for a genius, being great takes time - and he spent a lot of that dicking around in games.

And while his issues led to his isolation, he never lost his conscience. See how guilty he felt about abandoning Klein. It's not like anything bad even happened to him.
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-14, 12:49   Link #1173
Wild Goose
Truth Martyr
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Doing Anzu's paperwork.
Age: 28
Also, that rig that Kirito came up with is essentially a laptop with webcams and servos to control where the webcams look. Such tech has existed for decades - it's just a matter of putting things together.
__________________
~Speaking my mind, even when it costs me~
One must forgive one's enemies, but not before they are hanged.Heinrich Heine.

I believe in miracles.

Wild Goose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-14, 20:00   Link #1174
HandofFate
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
I just watched episode 2 anime, and started reading the LN.
What chapters was episode 2?

I started reading the LN, and first few chapters went similar to the anime, but then it timeskipped about 2-3 years real time and they're already at the 83th level?
__________________
...
HandofFate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-14, 20:02   Link #1175
kyp275
ZA ZOMBIE!!!
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Somewhere in the EVE cluster...
episode 2 is based off the Aria in the Starless Night side story, it was not part of the novel series.
kyp275 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-14, 20:02   Link #1176
Rayrah
Senior Member
*Graphic Designer
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Age: 20
Send a message via MSN to Rayrah
Quote:
Originally Posted by HandofFate View Post
I just watched episode 2 anime, and started reading the LN.
What chapters was episode 2?

I started reading the LN, and first few chapters went similar to the anime, but then it timeskipped about 2-3 years real time and they're already at the 83th level?
Episode 2 was from volume 2, which is a collection of short stories that take place during volume 1. Episode 2 covered the short story known as 'Aria in the Starless Sky'.
Rayrah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-14, 20:04   Link #1177
Rovert10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by HandofFate View Post
I just watched episode 2 anime, and started reading the LN.
What chapters was episode 2?

I started reading the LN, and first few chapters went similar to the anime, but then it timeskipped about 2-3 years real time and they're already at the 83th level?
Episode 2 is actually a side story not included in the actual volume 1 or 2 called Aria.

The timeskip puts them on the 73rd level in volume 1
Rovert10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-14, 20:28   Link #1178
CNine
The Crossroad
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Almost in There
crap i don't want to watch episode 3
__________________
CNine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-14, 20:28   Link #1179
lansglenn
Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Given that it looks like each side story equates to one episode (ep 2 is Aria, ep 3 Red Nosed, ep4 Blackswordsman), at what episode can we expect the main story arc to begin?

And starting from that episode all the way to the end of ep13 (?), do you think it is adequate content to fulfill a genuine & believable Kirito x Asuna romance the way we have it in the novel?
__________________
lansglenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-07-14, 20:31   Link #1180
Rayrah
Senior Member
*Graphic Designer
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Age: 20
Send a message via MSN to Rayrah
Quote:
Originally Posted by lansglenn View Post
Given that it looks like each side story equates to one episode (ep 2 is Aria, ep 3 Red Nosed, ep4 Blackswordsman), at what episode can we expect the main story arc to begin?

And starting from that episode all the way to the end of ep13 (?), do you think it is adequate content to fulfill a genuine & believable Kirito x Asuna romance the way we have it in the novel?
6 or 7 maybe? It's hard to say..

Eh.. probably. At least I'd like to think so..
Rayrah is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
action, gaming, harem, kirito, romance, shounen, tragedy, virtual reality

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 21:48.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.