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View Poll Results: Critique of Episode 02
10 out of 10: Near Perfect... 36 19.78%
9 out of 10: Excellent... 49 26.92%
8 out of 10: Very Good... 43 23.63%
7 out of 10: Good... 32 17.58%
6 out of 10: Average... 16 8.79%
5 out of 10: Below Average... 1 0.55%
4 out of 10: Poor... 2 1.10%
3 out of 10: Bad... 1 0.55%
2 out of 10: Very Bad... 0 0%
1 out of 10: Torturous... 2 1.10%
Voters: 182. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-07-15, 06:46   Link #261
Dengar
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I'm just wondering where on earth they'd even find the time to insert all these scenes everyone talked about. From my (anime-viewer) POV, taking down the first boss by the end of the second episode should take every priority.
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Old 2012-07-15, 06:49   Link #262
Iron Maw
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Originally Posted by dark998 View Post
Episode 2 was indeed far better than the first one. I can understand the novel readers complaning about X or Y thing being omitted, but the complaints about a "quality drop" are odd. Episode 1 was not particularly impressive in terms of visuals, action or anything.
No there definitely a decline in animation and visuals in general (no scenery porn here ). For example, both Boar fights in the first episode looked better even if the battles itself wasn't exciting on whole. Ep 2 had the more interesting fight, but it was pretty stiff for half of it and it relayed more on visual tricks and cut corners to keep momentum. I also didn't like how a lot characters just stood there most of time

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Originally Posted by Eratas123 View Post
Just wondering: Why are the beta testers being so prejudiced against for using any advantage they have? They're human beings, not angels or knight's in shining armor. Maybe it's just me, but as a practical person you can't go around saving every stupid person's ass when they're too stupid to read the manual in a game where you can die.

I believe in the concept of human decency and goodness, but the Beater's are under no obligation at all to help them. They shouldn't act like the tester's owe them any favors just because they got the game a couple of months early. If the beater's were PKing then I'd understand, but they're looking out for themselves, same as any person would in that situation.
This.

Once Egil pointed out the manual I found it really hard to sympathize noobies who wouldn't even take simple precautions to safeguard themselves. Did they forget this was a merciless death game now? What does it matter in the end if someone was a beta tester or not? This not a competition and frankly wouldn't be surprised half of 2000 players died more from idiocy than anything else. I dunno the whole beater thing felt rather "forced".
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Old 2012-07-15, 06:53   Link #263
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Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
That's what I label as "reality tv" logic where everyone gets stupid just because it's supposed to be real.

I don't know about you but I'd rather think about it as to what I'll do if I'm ever in that kind of situation and quite frankly I don't think I'll sink that low(keyword: think of course I don't think I'll ever know anytime soon as I don't see myself getting in a similar situation soon)
Yeah, and I'd like to think I'd keep my cool, be absolutely fearless, rational, and clever, and save everyone. Maybe acquire a harem, because why not? Realistically, one of my favorite quotes is “If you define cowardice as running away at the first sign of danger, screaming and tripping and begging for mercy, then yes, Mr. Brave man, I guess I'm a coward.” (from Jack Handy).

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I just don't buy this "humans are supposed to act like that naturally" BS.
And yet, as a matter of public record, humans do love their scapegoats. Just look at what happened to the Jews.

Frankly, once it became clear they were stuck with no one to impose order, it's already good they were more post-Tsunami Japanese than post-Katrina Americans. (Maybe helped by the fact they were, well, Japanese.)


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Originally Posted by Iron Maw View Post
Once Egil pointed out the manual I found it really hard to sympathize noobies who wouldn't even take simple precautions to safeguard themselves. Did they forget this was a merciless death game now? What does it matter in the end if someone was a beta tester or not? This not a competition and frankly wouldn't be surprised half of 2000 players died more from idiocy than anything else. I dunno the whole beater thing felt rather "forced".
Lots of suicides, actually. People who couldn't take it, or who couldn't believe the situation they were in, committing suicide, maybe betting on the chance that Kayaba was bluffing and that they'd just wake up in the real world. And, yes, people who couldn't adapt to the death rule and kept playing it like a normal MMO.

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Originally Posted by Goddess Madoka View Post
Hmm...

The way I see it, all the hate is probably attributed to the fact that the game is a life-and-death situation, kinda like real life.

...now think about it, say you had a friend in real life who died due to poverty, and then some dude
who is filthy rich (due to inheritance) decides to burn his cash away for fun, literally.

Well, I don't know about you guys, but I'll be pissed. In this case, the normal players hold a grudge against these players as it's kinda like that.... (maybe not really...)

Of course, there are probably tons of other reasons why there is hate. All it takes is one idiot to cause all that hate (e.g. that guy this episode)

Hmm... the beta testers are also hated probably due to the preconceived notion that they are selfish and only concerned for their own well being. (Hence the reason fof the "leaving behind us players to fend for ourselves" talk from that guy in this episode)
Except it's perfectly viable to just stay in the starting city indefinitely. It won't be a comfortable life, but it's risk free. Which means anyone who got out volunteered to scout out the other areas of the first floor. Well done, but they had to know the dangers.

Besides, as I said earlier, Beta Testers die faster than people without prior knowledge.
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Old 2012-07-15, 07:04   Link #264
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Originally Posted by Iron Maw View Post
Once Egil pointed out the manual I found it really hard to sympathize noobies who wouldn't even take simple precautions to safeguard themselves. Did they forget this was a merciless death game now? What does it matter in the end if someone was a beta tester or not? This not a competition and frankly wouldn't be surprised half of 2000 players died more from idiocy than anything else. I dunno the whole beater thing felt rather "forced".
Are you aware of some popular criticisms towards capitalists? That they should share their wealth to the needier ones?

It's the same concept here. Even if we assume that everyone is sharing the goal of clearing the tower, the game is ultimately a scramble for limited resources. As such, there are a good number of people who are uncomfortable with anyone else who has an edge over everyone else. With that in mind, it shouldn't take long for people to grow suspicious of those who know more than they do.

The only way to quell that distrust is if those who have share all they have with those who don't have. That way, everyone would be equal. However, there will always be the suspicion that the beta-testers who helped compile the book are still hiding more information that will give them an advantage over other players.

Of course, as many have mentioned, in times of anger and grief, people tend to look for a suitable target for their emotions. In short, the need for a scapegoat is just them rationalizing their negative emotions to keep themselves stable.
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Old 2012-07-15, 07:19   Link #265
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Besides, as I said earlier, Beta Testers die faster than people without prior knowledge.
I didn't even need to read the LN to figure that out. This episode makes it obvious that that Akihiko guy changed things around to throw off the beta testers.
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Old 2012-07-15, 07:28   Link #266
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I think that's the very point. We're not supposed to know a lot about her just yet. Kirito was the main focus of this episode. If you pay attention to context, the point when the particular side story this episode was based on was released, readers were already well-acquainted with Asuna's character, so it was natural to show scenes that covered Asuna's background story at that point.

However, this is just the second anime episode told from Kirito's POV. Since Asuna right now is still "that mysterious stranger", drawing the focus away from Kirito at the moment wouldn't be all that recommendable.

This is a two cour series, so all this paranoia about Asuna's "insufficient characterization" is unwarranted. There will be plenty of time to focus on her issues later on.
I hope that it is the case. You do have a point that develop Asuna is episode 2 may be too early. If they do indeed come back and touch upon Asuna backstory later on then all is fine, I still have my doubt that, with all the rush, they will have time and episode to do that though. We wil have to wait and see.

Spoiler for Comparison of current episode to the novel:


I believe however, even from anime point of view, that this episode suppose to be Asuna debut episode.
When you introduce someone and he/she is not interesting, there is a problem.
If majority of viewers think Asuna is fine as she is now, then it is fine.
that is all there is to it.
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Last edited by relentlessflame; 2012-07-15 at 10:16. Reason: added spoiler tag for comparison
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Old 2012-07-15, 07:32   Link #267
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Originally Posted by Hmm.... View Post
Spoiler for Comparison of current episode to the novel:
To clarify my earlier statement, I meant that Kirito was the focus of the anime episode. It wouldn't make sense to focus on Asuna this early in the series in my opinion.

I haven't read that particular side story yet after all, so you can call me an anime-only viewer in that regard.
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Last edited by relentlessflame; 2012-07-15 at 10:16.
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Old 2012-07-15, 07:37   Link #268
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Fair enough, I say. But fear and powerlessness make people say and do so-called "illogical" things in order to protect themselves, therefore I stand by my statement.


If I were in that kind of situation, I of course would try to be savvy about this thought process and hope I won't sink that low, but I can't guarantee that I won't.
Well I do understand where you ar coming fom. It's not like there is no logic behind it. It is just I simply have a higher opinion of myself as a human being. I may not be a hero who will save everyone from their woe but I just don't see myself starting a shitstorm with anyone mnding their own business.

At the very least I can appreciate the fact that there is an explanation behind it I just don't like it. I don't think this will hamper my enjoyment of the series anyway.
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Old 2012-07-15, 07:47   Link #269
Iron Maw
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Lots of suicides, actually. People who couldn't take it, or who couldn't believe the situation they were in, committing suicide, maybe betting on the chance that Kayaba was bluffing and that they'd just wake up in the real world. And, yes, people who couldn't adapt to the death rule and kept playing it like a normal MMO.
That makes sense for those who couldn't accept the situation their were in, but the other that did paln on climbing the tower, should be more mindful with such a high casualty.

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Originally Posted by Qilin View Post
Are you aware of some popular criticisms towards capitalists? That they should share their wealth to the needier ones?

It's the same concept here. Even if we assume that everyone is sharing the goal of clearing the tower, the game is ultimately a scramble for limited resources. As such, there are a good number of people who are uncomfortable with anyone else who has an edge over everyone else. With that in mind, it shouldn't take long for people to grow suspicious of those who know more than they do.

The only way to quell that distrust is if those who have share all they have with those who don't have. That way, everyone would be equal. However, there will always be the suspicion that the beta-testers who helped compile the book are still hiding more information that will give them an advantage over other players.

Of course, as many have mentioned, in times of anger and grief, people tend to look for a suitable target for their emotions. In short, the need for a scapegoat is just them rationalizing their negative emotions to keep themselves stable.
I get your reasoning, but this can't be helped. It's not as beta-testers themselves knew the game was going to be a death trap. Considering that for a month that nobody was able to even find the Boss floor, should indicted that the beta-testers don't know that much more about the game than the noobs. While the guidebook may not state every trick in the game, it at least the gives the basics for survival and advancement for everybody. From there everyone can move as they see fit, it's far better than nothing. I mean the beta-testers when they first started the game, before it went official didn't even have that. Besides regardless who kills the Boss all players get one step closer to leaving SAO, so benefit for all involved in the end. I think that's most important thing here IMO.
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Old 2012-07-15, 07:48   Link #270
Dengar
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Originally Posted by Eratas123 View Post
[mod edit: post removed for having too many novel hints]
Well, would you want to be hated?

Also I don't think Kirito ever had a guild.


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Originally Posted by Iron Maw View Post
I get your reasoning, but this can't be helped. It's not as beta-testers themselves knew the game was going to be a death trap. Considering that for a month that nobody was able to even find the Boss floor, should indicted that the beta-testers don't know that much more about the game than the noobs. While the guidebook may not state every trick in the game, it at least the gives the basics for survival and advancement for everybody. From there everyone can move as they see fit, it's far better than nothing. I mean the beta-testers when they first started the game, before it went official didn't even have that. Besides regardless who kills the Boss all players get one step closer to leaving SAO, so benefit for all involved in the end. I think that's most important thing here IMO.
An ideal world would agree with you. Too bad people have things such as fear and frustration.

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2012-07-15 at 10:17.
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Old 2012-07-15, 08:01   Link #271
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oh right, this is the episode thread, so I can't reveal anything about the LN. Sorry about that.

I'm just wondering why telling people you're a Beater would automatically trigger insta-hate. If you're telling them, then that has to mean something.
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Old 2012-07-15, 08:03   Link #272
Qilin
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Originally Posted by Iron Maw View Post
I get your reasoning, but this can't be helped. It's not as beta-testers themselves knew the game was going to be a death trap. Considering that for a month that nobody was able to even find the Boss floor, should indicted that the beta-testers don't know that much more about the game than the noobs. While the guidebook may not state every trick in the game, it at least the gives the basics for survival and advancement for everybody. From there everyone can move as they see fit, it's far better than nothing. I mean the beta-testers when they first started the game, before it went official didn't even have that. Besides regardless who kills the Boss all players get one step closer to leaving SAO, so benefit for all involved in the end. I think that's most important thing here IMO.
Yes. That is indeed the logical thing to assume, but you're not considering the mental state that the characters are in.

Many of the players are angry and desperate, and they need a channel to divert those excess emotions. They can hardly target their feelings towards Kayaba Akihiko since he is virtually unreachable, so they need a much more tangible scapegoat to receive the brunt of their negative emotions. I mean, they could live on indefinitely by just blaming their predicaments on the beta testers "not sharing their information", like how some people like blaming the government for every single problem in society.
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Old 2012-07-15, 08:11   Link #273
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Originally Posted by Eratas123 View Post
I'm just wondering why telling people you're a Beater would automatically trigger insta-hate.
My guess, depression and feeling of being inferior. They are all in a dangerous situation. The people who knows more has the highest chance of survival. Basically, newbies will feel as if its unfair on their side. Its like " a beater knows how to play the game while we newbies are just getting to know the game".

If I were a newbie I'll grab the chance to join a party with a beater but keep on guard if your purpose in the party is as bait.
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Old 2012-07-15, 08:11   Link #274
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Wow... Reading throught his topic...

Rushed
Rushed
Rushed
Rushed

Does everyone on this forum know Japanese and read LN's all the time or something?

Also many LN spoilers in here too. >_<


Almost makes me forget my own thoughts on the episode.


It was great. Knight guy wanted to get the item, but realised too late that the boss was different from the beta. Then he died, giving us, the viewer the idea that the threat of death is real (other than you know, 2000 unnamed characters dying offscreen).

Then there's Kirito who seems to shift the hate towards just himself to stop the normal players from distrusting eachother. (at least I think that's what he's doing)

Oh, and Asuna is very pretty. Skilled too. Noob at partying though.
I have not read the Light Novels and I think it was rushed. The boss fight should have been 3rd episode. 1st episode set the scene and plot. 2nd episode needed to establish the characters more so that I actually care about them.
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Old 2012-07-15, 08:16   Link #275
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I have not read the Light Novels and I think it was rushed. The boss fight should have been 3rd episode. 1st episode set the scene and plot. 2nd episode needed to establish the characters more so that I actually care about them.
Right now it's the opposite
The next episode should and hopefully set up the background for Kirito's actions throughout the story arc.
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Old 2012-07-15, 08:36   Link #276
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Man this thread moves fast.

Didn't get to watch the second episode until just now. I'm an anime-only viewer but judging from several posts I read on the first page, this adaptation apparently skipped a few things from the source material. While that's normally something I don't particularly approve of, I'm making an exception here. Why? Because the episode was actually entertaining regardless. I got pretty much exactly what I wanted to see with a series in this setting and I'm very very glad they did it in an respectable and dignified way.
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Old 2012-07-15, 08:37   Link #277
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Omg....I'd be so tempted to kill that one guy. So annoying. Yeah Kirito was a beta tester....so what.
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Old 2012-07-15, 09:01   Link #278
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Pardon my out-of-place second post. I meant to put the following with my previous one but I accidentally hit the "post reply" button and I figured this thread moves too quickly for post editing to be noticed very well. (EDIT: Oops, I suppose not. Well I guess it's not a double post so it should be alright.)

Just a few thoughts on some things this episode:

Diabel was a beta tester too yes? So why exactly did he not notice the change in the boss' weapon too like Kirito did? I'd have a hard time believing it's because he was never able to get past the first floor, so the only reasonable conclusion I could come to was that he intended to sacrifice himself from the beginning.

Kirito is also a "cheater" as well as a beta tester. So what specifically does that imply? As far as I saw, all he explained was that he managed to get the farthest in the beta out of everybody else who played it. I don't know if that's an abnormal thing for a beta tester who doesn't tamper with the game's coding, considering I'm not an MMORPG buff, but surely there's a chance Kirito just got there though pure skill too no?

Also another good sign, Asuna didn't piss me off in her first appearance. They're treating her character with some dignity so far and the supposed romantic relationship between her and Kirito isn't just some spontaneous thing that happens shortly after they first meet. I suppose this is her first time playing an MMORPG too considering she didn't realize that party member names are displayed which makes the fact she's playing one, at least to me, a lot more believable.


My apologies if my above concerns have already been addressed in this thread. It's just rather tedious to patiently read almost 300 posts in a single sitting.
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Old 2012-07-15, 09:05   Link #279
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Diabel was a beta tester too yes? So why exactly did he not notice the change in the boss' weapon too like Kirito did? I'd have a hard time believing it's because he was never able to get past the first floor, so the only reasonable conclusion I could come to was that he intended to sacrifice himself from the beginning.
I don't see why anyone would purposely die just to give others a morale boost/rallying point. Not when there's 100 levels and they're still on level 1.

Quote:
Kirito is also a "cheater" as well as a beta tester. So what specifically does that imply? As far as I saw, all he explained was that he managed to get the farthest in the beta out of everybody else who played it. I don't know if that's an abnormal thing for a beta tester who doesn't tamper with the game's coding, considering I'm not an MMORPG buff, but surely there's a chance Kirito just got there though pure skill too no?
A lot of players in MMOs consider those with beta experience, who in turn use said experience to clear the real game more easily or quickly, to have cheated for all intents and purposes. Especially in a game like this, where there's real life consequences, and a limited supply of items and experience.

That being said, the other players need to just shut the hell up. The beta-testers are risking their lives by going it solo, while they can group up and remove 95% of the risk. Sure, it's slower and they risk not getting as many levels or items, but they also won't die. Don't try to be a hero when you aren't willing to risk anything.
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Old 2012-07-15, 09:15   Link #280
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Originally Posted by SilverSyko View Post
Diabel was a beta tester too yes? So why exactly did he not notice the change in the boss' weapon too like Kirito did? I'd have a hard time believing it's because he was never able to get past the first floor, so the only reasonable conclusion I could come to was that he intended to sacrifice himself from the beginning.
That's right. I think he did; he was just that desperate to get the final hit on the boss, so as to make sure that he gets the item the boss drops. So basically, it was his greed that killed him.

Quote:
Kirito is also a "cheater" as well as a beta tester. So what specifically does that imply? As far as I saw, all he explained was that he managed to get the farthest in the beta out of everybody else who played it. I don't know if that's an abnormal thing for a beta tester who doesn't tamper with the game's coding, considering I'm not an MMORPG buff, but surely there's a chance Kirito just got there though pure skill too no?
From my understanding, Kirito was labeled a 'cheater' because he was beta tester, who didn't share his own knowledge. Since he claims to have gotten the farthest in the beta, the knowledge and experience he possess should be above those of "normal" beta testers, who didn't get as far as him in the beta. And because dying in this game equates to death in real life, the other players believe that he is more or less cheating.
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