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Old 2012-07-15, 20:49   Link #1
relentlessflame
 
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Clarified Spoiler Policy for Your Review

In light of the situation in this sub-forum regarding spoilers, the staff have put together the clarification below to help make it even clearer what sorts of novel information is okay and not okay in anime threads, and where such information can be posted. The intention is that we will begin strict enforcement of the Spoiler Policy, as clarified in this post, as soon as we re-open the Episode 2 thread.

We want to provide this opportunity for everyone to read the clarified policy and provide any feedback about areas they consider unclear or confusing. To be clear, this is not a new policy, and we are not considering changing the rules at this time. But we want to make sure that the rules are explained as clearly as possible so that no one has an excuse when we begin issuing bans. So if there are any questions you have about our rules that are still not explained well in this post, please let us know.




There are a number of people familiar with the source material for this show, and so we would like to explain our expectations regarding spoilers.

FAILURE TO ABIDE BY ANY OF THE RULES IN THE SPOILER POLICY, AS CLARIFIED IN THIS POST, WILL RESULT IN AN AUTOMATIC ONE-DAY BAN ON THE FIRST OFFENCE. Subsequent offences will result in infractions and longer (including permanent) bans.

1. Do NOT post ANYTHING from or based-on the source material about future content in anime threads

This means:
  • no hints or "teasing" of any kind about what will happen later
  • no guidance about how to interpret current anime events to hint at what is coming later
  • no answers to any questions (plot-related or otherwise) that will be answered later
  • no source-related details that anticipate what you hope or know is coming later
  • no discussing or alluding to future arcs or characters
Anime-only viewers should refrain from posting questions or comments in anime threads that request for this type of forbidden information.

Generally, such discussion is permitted in only two threads:
1) the Source Material Discussion thread (Manga, Light Novel, or Game as appropriate) or 2) the Spoilers & Speculation thread.

Limited spoilers are permitted in Character Discussion threads provided that they are clearly-marked and properly-labelled (see more information about that below).

Limited spoilers are also permitted in the Q&A thread in direct response to a question, again provided that the spoiler is clearly-marked and properly-labelled.

Images that contain characters and situations not-yet-animated are permitted in the Image Thread behind properly-labelled spoiler tags, so long as the image itself does not spoil the story, and any potential spoiler is not discussed in the Image Thread (more on that below as well).


2. ALL Comparisons of current animated content to the source material, or questions answered about current anime content based on source material information, MUST be in properly-labelled spoiler tags

Properly-labelled spoiler tags means you must identify the NATURE of the spoiler:
  • the purpose of the spoiler (i.e. comparison to the current episode)
  • where the spoiler comes from (i.e. the novel/manga/game/another story/etc.)
To use the spoiler tag, use the spoiler button, or type as in the following example:

Code:
[spoiler=comparison of episode 2 to the novels]my comparison here[/spoiler]
This will show up like this:
Spoiler for comparison of episode 2 to the novels:

DO NOT place a spoiler tag without a label, and DO NOT use a poor label like "spoiler" or give away the spoiler in the tag label! The purpose of the spoiler tag is to help people make a decision about whether or not they wish to open the tag.

When replying to a post that uses spoiler tags, please ensure the spoiler tags are preserved in your quote, and that your reply also uses properly-labelled spoiler tags.

From this point forward, failure to either use a spoiler tag for comparisons, or to give it a proper label as defined above will result in the automatic ban.

Please note that other acceptable and required uses for spoiler tags are outlined in the Spoiler Policy. This includes also information from official sites/blogs, and comparisons to other stories.


3. Do NOT otherwise discuss the source material inappropriately

For example:
  • Do not have spoiler discussions in image threads
  • Do not have spoiler discussions in the Q&A thread (only answers to direct questions)
  • Do not post "speculation" that pretends you haven't been spoiled if you have been
  • Do not post in the anime-only "Speculation & Theories" thread if you're familiar with the source, unless you restrict yourself to clearly-established anime knowledge only (no hints, no "help", no spoilers of any kind). This thread is intended for anime-only viewers.
  • Do not post unsolicited information from the novels to "correct" an anime-only viewer's observations or speculation
  • Do not reply AT ALL to other people's inappropriate spoilers, instead just report it (see below)

4. Do NOT use the spoiler tag for images or other things that aren't spoiler-related

We have some new tags that can be useful to you:
  • [images] For Images
  • [nsfw] For NSFW Images (Keep it PG-13)
  • [tldr] For "optional" parts of your post that others may wish to skip
If you use the right tag for the right situation, it'll help prevent people from getting inadvertently spoiled.


5. DO REPORT any inappropriate spoilers you find

Please use the Report Button to notify the site staff about any violations you find to the above rules in this or any other anime thread on the Forums (in any section). If you're not 100% sure, please feel free to report it anyway. All reports will be reviewed by the staff prior to any action being taken. Please do not reply to the spoiler in the thread or point out a spoiler in public, as this will only draw more attention to the spoiler.
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Last edited by relentlessflame; 2012-07-16 at 23:57. Reason: minor revisions
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Old 2012-07-16, 09:00   Link #2
Wild Goose
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Noted. I assume this will be entering the main spoiler policy FAQ? Because a strict literal interpretation of the current policy (which appears to be the preffered interpretation practiced) would support what I'd suggested prior, in my last PM to you.

The next question, therefore, is what does "limited" mean, as without a yardstick, this is a rather subjective term. Personally I'd suggest a spoiler in the Q&A thread that directly addresses a question would best define the term "limited", but sometimes an in-depth answer may be required, to which a "limited" spoiler may not suffice.

That's my only point of concern at the moment.

I suppose if anime viewers get too eager, we'll have to keep replying, "Click here to go to the Q&A thread to get your question answered."
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Last edited by Wild Goose; 2012-07-16 at 09:01. Reason: Some touch up.
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Old 2012-07-16, 09:38   Link #3
Dengar
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How does this spoiler policy relate to these so-called "Side-stories" that people kept on talking about in the ep2 thread? I mean, if they are, in fact, "Side-stories" in the literal sense of the word, then they should have no place in an episode discussion would they?
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Old 2012-07-16, 09:41   Link #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
How does this spoiler policy relate to these so-called "Side-stories" that people kept on talking about in the ep2 thread? I mean, if they are, in fact, "Side-stories" in the literal sense of the word, then they should have no place in an episode discussion would they?
Well, episode 2 itself is based on one of the side stories.
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Old 2012-07-16, 09:47   Link #5
Dengar
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Are you saying that nothing that happens in the episode ever happened during the main story?


See, this is the exact reason why the whole spoiler thing is such a blur. People have been alluding to a lot of things that haven't happened in the actual episode, but I have no idea whether these things are spoilers or not because I don't know anything about the source material.
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Old 2012-07-16, 10:03   Link #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Are you saying that nothing that happens in the episode ever happened during the main story?
If by "main story" you mean the published novels, then that is correct.
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Old 2012-07-16, 10:05   Link #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Are you saying that nothing that happens in the episode ever happened during the main story?

See, this is the exact reason why the whole spoiler thing is such a blur. People have been alluding to a lot of things that haven't happened in the actual episode, but I have no idea whether these things are spoilers or not because I don't know anything about the source material.
Both the main story and side stories (except for a few) are canon. The side stories were written to make the main story more coherent and fluidic. If you want a more detailed answer, I'd recommend asking that in the Q & A thread.

Yeah, in the form of a comparison, which is fine, as long as the comparison is in a properly labeled spoiler tag.
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Old 2012-07-16, 10:15   Link #8
Dengar
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Ok, so if I get this correctly, the correct syntax would be...

"Oh my god, I can't believe they left out...." followed by whatever they left out in a correctly labeled spoiler tag. <<== If this is the case then no rules are being broken? As in, if it's not a future spoiler, but it hasn't appeared in the episode itself, it should go in a spoiler tag?
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Old 2012-07-16, 10:20   Link #9
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I'm not too fond of the rule that someone familiar with the light novel can't post in spoiler/speculation for anime-viewers only, but it's alright.

I like to disconnect myself from any lingering knowledge I have of the source material when I watch my stuff. I mean, given my familiarity with the source material, I tend to avoid anime-only discussions anyway since it's very difficult to disassociate the fact that you have source knoweldge, but there are times when I feel that I can quantify something I perceive from the lens of an anime-only viewer and discuss with that.
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Old 2012-07-16, 10:25   Link #10
Utsuro no Hako
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Are you saying that nothing that happens in the episode ever happened during the main story?


See, this is the exact reason why the whole spoiler thing is such a blur. People have been alluding to a lot of things that haven't happened in the actual episode, but I have no idea whether these things are spoilers or not because I don't know anything about the source material.
The series is like Haruhi where there are novels and then there are tons and tons of side stories set in gaps of the main narrative. Some of them aren't being adapted into the show -- they already skipped one -- but the mods should nuke any post discussing those just in case they turn up in an OVA or flashback. But, if I understand the policy correctly, comparing the episode to its source material in properly labeled spoilers should be okay -- "The fighting tactics made more sense in the story where they did blah, blah, blah."
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Old 2012-07-16, 10:30   Link #11
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Yeah, I didn't mind at all that people elaborated on, for example, the boss fight. Or even some of the game mechanics. But then there were people talking about scenes that never happened in the episode, such as interactions between Kirito and Asuna which apparently happened before this I dunno? If it were up to me, I'd prefer not to hear this stuff, should I ever decide to read the LN later on, I'd prefer not to have the whole thing spoiled to me.
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Old 2012-07-16, 11:16   Link #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Yeah, I didn't mind at all that people elaborated on, for example, the boss fight. Or even some of the game mechanics. But then there were people talking about scenes that never happened in the episode, such as interactions between Kirito and Asuna which apparently happened before this I dunno? If it were up to me, I'd prefer not to hear this stuff, should I ever decide to read the LN later on, I'd prefer not to have the whole thing spoiled to me.
Question to the mods: What is the policy for such situations, where the anime skips or writes out content from the source material? Is it okay to discuss the missing content as part of a comparison under spoiler tags, do we need to hide such discussion under a separate spoiler tag with its own warning, and how much detail pertaining to such content are we allowed to discuss?
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Old 2012-07-16, 11:35   Link #13
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Be aware that such "complementary information" can always be introduced later, if the events are drastically altered.
As such, events that could "not possibly be introduced later on" are safe (i.e. the whole "bread" issue with Asuna in episode 2, if I understood correctly).

However, if events are skipped altogether and potentially introduced later on, please be aware they can be considered as spoilers (for example, events that can have their chronological appearance being shuffled together without any clear impact to the original story).
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Old 2012-07-16, 12:29   Link #14
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It's not the bread, but rather Kirito and Asuna's actual first meeting in a dungeon that was cut out that people were howling about. This event technically can be written in later, but only with such a drastic and disruptive rewrite that the result cannot be compared to the original source, and LN readers would not expect it.
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Old 2012-07-16, 16:25   Link #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post
I'm not too fond of the rule that someone familiar with the light novel can't post in spoiler/speculation for anime-viewers only, but it's alright.

I like to disconnect myself from any lingering knowledge I have of the source material when I watch my stuff. I mean, given my familiarity with the source material, I tend to avoid anime-only discussions anyway since it's very difficult to disassociate the fact that you have source knoweldge, but there are times when I feel that I can quantify something I perceive from the lens of an anime-only viewer and discuss with that.
Indeed, this is also similar to how I tend to post, though, in this instance, I've no knowledge of the SAO novel. Example, in HxH 2011, before the Gon and Hanzo fight episode, in the thread I might say "Gon has a good chance to beat Hanzo.", giving reasons based on Gon's abilities in previous episodes, even though I'm a manga reader that knows Gon's gonna get his ass handed to him.
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Old 2012-07-17, 00:18   Link #16
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Thanks to everyone for your feedback. I posted some minor updates to the wording based on the feedback here and also among the staff which should help make things a bit clearer. I will try to address some of the accumulated questions (though other staff may also contribute their own answers):

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
The next question, therefore, is what does "limited" mean, as without a yardstick, this is a rather subjective term. Personally I'd suggest a spoiler in the Q&A thread that directly addresses a question would best define the term "limited", but sometimes an in-depth answer may be required, to which a "limited" spoiler may not suffice.
I think this will be a bit of a judgement call, and that's why we went with the admittedly open-ended "limited" in those cases. I would say "no more than is necessary". So in your Q&A thread example, you could post the extent of spoiler that is necessary to answer the question, but don't go spoiling all sorts of unrelated things. Also if it is a major game-changing spoiler, probably don't want to give that away either.

I would say that I am concerned that the character discussion threads are basically nothing but novel threads right now that talk about a character. This is an anime discussion forum, not a novel discussion forum, and the focus of the character discussion threads should primarily be the character in the anime. So "limited spoiler" also means "don't go overboard". Pure novel conversations are better left for the novel thread in most cases.

We realize that not every single case will be cut and dry, and the mods will usually try to give the benefit of the doubt so long as the person is sincerely trying to be conscientious and aware of the policy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Ok, so if I get this correctly, the correct syntax would be...

"Oh my god, I can't believe they left out...." followed by whatever they left out in a correctly labeled spoiler tag. <<== If this is the case then no rules are being broken? As in, if it's not a future spoiler, but it hasn't appeared in the episode itself, it should go in a spoiler tag?
Generally speaking that seems right, but I would say even the "teaser" ("Oh my god, I can't believe...") shouldn't be out in the clear. Just put the whole thing behind properly-labelled spoiler tags in that case, since it's really part of the comparison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post
I'm not too fond of the rule that someone familiar with the light novel can't post in spoiler/speculation for anime-viewers only, but it's alright.
Yes, multiple people brought up this point too, and this was updated in the new revision to be a bit more defined/specific. Basically, it's "you'd better make sure that you're not giving absolutely any novel info away". I know from firsthand experience (though not for this show) how hard it can by to try to physically divorce yourself from the source material knowledge you have (sometimes you may not even remember that the insight you have wasn't covered in the anime! Or at least I sometimes have that problem...), so I think it would be *advisable* to avoid those threads in most cases. If a novel reader does want to participate, I recommend that, just to be upfront, they disclose that they did read the novels, but that their comment is only going to discuss things in the anime with no hints. Absolutely no novel spoilers are allowed in that thread. If we catch someone "posing" as an anime-only speculator who, it later turns out, has really been spoiled all along, I'll say that will be punished most severely.


Well, I think I'm going to post the policy shortly, but I'll leave this thread in the sub-forum to answer any further questions that may come up. I really do appreciate everyone's patience as we try to work this through and make this as enjoyable a discussion environment for as many different people as possible. I realize that means that novel readers will need to show more discipline, but I consider that the burden of knowing the source in a world where not everyone does or even wants to. Thanks to all for your cooperation both in the way you post, an with reports. And for people who choose to not read any of the many warnings and end up getting banned while claiming "ignorance"... well, sorry, but we tried.
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