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Old 2012-07-12, 11:33   Link #41
frubam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypernova View Post
The first ep didn't say he was the founder, just the guy who invented the tech. SO I was thinking under the assumption that he was just a high level researcher.

Anyway, sometimes you just need to have a Willing Suspension of Disbelief. As an electronics design engineer by trade I nitpick SF a lot. But should one let that impede their enjoyment of the story? Not in the least. Debating what if's is fun and all but one needs to remember that they are all just plot contrivances to drive the story and move on when appropriate. At least they have to decency to try have some explanations. Much better compared to Muv-Luv which has swiss cheese level holes in its settings.
Lol, am I interpreting this wrong, or are you subtly contradicting your theory from earlier ?
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Old 2012-07-12, 11:38   Link #42
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Originally Posted by frubam View Post
Lol, am I interpreting this wrong, or are you subtly contradicting your theory from earlier ?
Not really, I'm just saying they at least try. Though I wished they could have done even better. Granted they might given we are only at the first ep.
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Old 2012-07-16, 19:43   Link #43
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Originally Posted by guenthar View Post
The problem with that is that the way it kills is by using microwaves to fry a persons brain which means if there is no power then it can't kill. You could just use an electromagnetic pulse to disable it and prevent it from frying a persons brain.
yea, but an emp is a bit dangerous. don't want to set an entire city or country in to the dark ages because of this incident.
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Old 2012-07-16, 21:18   Link #44
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Anyone know if a boss respawns when they die? Like can they farm a boss over and over? If that's the case wouldn't Kirito have a disadvantage because the guilds would just pk solo players?
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Old 2012-07-16, 21:20   Link #45
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Originally Posted by ZGMF-X10A View Post
Anyone know if a boss respawns when they die? Like can they farm a boss over and over? If that's the case wouldn't Kirito have a disadvantage because the guilds would just pk solo players?
answer at Q & A
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Old 2012-07-16, 21:50   Link #46
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Do you think Kirito was just bs'ing about being the best player in the game? I mean, obviously, he said those things in order to negate the suspicions players were starting to have about one other, but I wonder if the fact that he was able to defend against the Wolf Lord's attacks was as he said it was? I was under the impression that because this game has no magic or class distinctions, it should be theoretically improbable to be more effective in one area of battle over someone else, yet Kirito manages to do just that(with the help of Asuna) by single-handedly parrying the Wolf Lord's attacks. Does this mean levels don't even matter, as long as you have the techniques(i.e. tactics, not "skills") to defend against the enemy?
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Old 2012-07-16, 23:24   Link #47
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Originally Posted by frubam View Post
Do you think Kirito was just bs'ing about being the best player in the game? I mean, obviously, he said those things in order to negate the suspicions players were starting to have about one other, but I wonder if the fact that he was able to defend against the Wolf Lord's attacks was as he said it was? I was under the impression that because this game has no magic or class distinctions, it should be theoretically improbable to be more effective in one area of battle over someone else, yet Kirito manages to do just that(with the help of Asuna) by single-handedly parrying the Wolf Lord's attacks. Does this mean levels don't even matter, as long as you have the techniques(i.e. tactics, not "skills") to defend against the enemy?
Well we can either assume

a) He was bluffing to baffle the group
b) He really did, and was acting that way to again, baffle the group

Personally, I think that by his gulping swallow, he was nervously wondering if telling them he actually did it (went so high up) would work in getting them to back off. Not only this, but he never once thought about how it was going to be difficult ahead. Plus, he displayed excellent skills, so we can only assume he's adept and therefore has more experience.

But what really makes me think he got up many floors was how he noticed the weapon type that the Wolf King switched to. I doubt any other enemies on the first floor sported a giant curved sword like the Wolf King did. Thus, he has seen it being used by enemies on much higher floors.

I think that the boss (though he's big) was only parry-able because of a closeness in level. The skill probably works against certain "forces" or "strengths" in a ratio between the defender and attacker's level. The Wolf King's strength was within range for the skill to parry him.
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Old 2012-07-17, 00:12   Link #48
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Not really sure...he said he got up to 8F in a month, it doesn't really sound that great, but since the game floors are cleared on a global scale, if he's the one who killed the 7F boss, then there's no way anyone else was better than him.

What got me thinking was something else though: he just gathered a lot of hate and is walking around with a rare coat, won't that make him a very possible target for people with not-so-good intentions?
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Old 2012-07-17, 01:45   Link #49
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Originally Posted by Kafriel View Post
Not really sure...he said he got up to 8F in a month, it doesn't really sound that great, but since the game floors are cleared on a global scale, if he's the one who killed the 7F boss, then there's no way anyone else was better than him.

What got me thinking was something else though: he just gathered a lot of hate and is walking around with a rare coat, won't that make him a very possible target for people with not-so-good intentions?
True. But how many players in SAO would be willing to "kill?"

EVen Kibaou only suggested item/money lynching from Betas instead of anything more heinous.

In a regular MMO scenario, Kirito would probably be PK-ed there and then ( if PK is allowed.) But in a real life-and-death situation, how many would dare take the risk?
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Old 2012-07-17, 12:28   Link #50
Alucard24
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I'm wondering how is it even possible that no one can help them ? I mean, the should be a way to free the players like :

- dropping a EMP bomb to destroy all the electronic of the NervGear,
- reroute the IP to a dummy server,
- destroy the real server,
- remove the battery of the NervGear (a little explosive there should help in worst case) then cut the electrical power

..... And like I said in Q&A thread, it's already possible to track someone on the web so 10 years in future it should be a piece of cake to locate the bad guy !
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Old 2012-07-17, 12:51   Link #51
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Originally Posted by Alucard24 View Post
- dropping a EMP bomb to destroy all the electronic of the NervGear
And wipe out the electronics in the whole prefecture? Also, I'm pretty sure not very many Japanese are too keen on detonating a nuke over their country, you can say they're kinda sensitive about that for obvious reasons.

Also, electronics can be shielded from EMP - most are as a matter of fact, just to varying degrees.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alucard24 View Post
- reroute the IP to a dummy server,
- destroy the real server,
Yes, because Kayaba obviously won't be in control of/monitoring the system, won't be able to tell when something fishy is going on, or have already built in protection against such obvious methos right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alucard24 View Post
- remove the battery of the NervGear (a little explosive there should help in worst case) then cut the electrical power
Did you not see the part in episode 1 where Kayaba explicitly stated that any attempts at removal or tampering with the NervGear will automatically trigger the microwave? It's safe to say that if the helmet is advanced enough to have a "high density signalling device" - aka 3D scanner integrated just to scan what the player looks like, there will be things in place to make sure the helmet itself is not tampered with.

Also, I'm going to assume that you're not actually familiar with explosives, but suffice to say that what you proposed is an extremely bad idea. If you're going to do that, you might as well just shoot them in the head with a gun, it'll be less messy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alucard24 View Post
..... And like I said in Q&A thread, it's already possible to track someone on the web so 10 years in future it should be a piece of cake to locate the bad guy !
Yea, if the person doesn't care about being tracked.... it's not all that hard to keep yourself hidden online if you really want to.
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Old 2012-07-17, 13:07   Link #52
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Getting this from Q&A thread for Alucard
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alucard24
You're not quite right. If you don't push the button, it's not 100% they live since they can be killed any moment. Apart for the monsters, imagine there a sudden power cut : no more electricity. The battery of the NervGear would kill them. Same thing if the connection to the network is lost for any reason !
Thing is, if they die to monsters, the government (or any organization handle this case) won't have to bear direct responsibility. If thousands people get their brains fried because that organization tried to carelessly remove / destroy NervGear, you know what will happen.
Moreover, by the time VR technology goes that far, I think we can safely assume a connection lost or power cut won't happen under normal condition. Even by now I can't remember when was the last time important hospitals in my country had power-outage.

All in all, they can't (and probably don't want to) rush things and attempt anything that wasn't proven to be fail-safe.
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Old 2012-07-17, 14:13   Link #53
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Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
Also, electronics can be shielded from EMP - most are as a matter of fact, just to varying degrees.
yeah, ok ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
Yes, because Kayaba obviously won't be in control of/monitoring the system, won't be able to tell when something fishy is going on, or have already built in protection against such obvious methos right?
Well, if you nuke the whole freaking server, I don't think any monitoring will be relevant anymore xD And if there is no more link between the NervGear and the server, there will be no kill switch to press, isn't it ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
Did you not see the part in episode 1 where Kayaba explicitly stated that any attempts at removal or tampering with the NervGear will automatically trigger the microwave? It's safe to say that if the helmet is advanced enough to have a "high density signalling device" - aka 3D scanner integrated just to scan what the player looks like, there will be things in place to make sure the helmet itself is not tampered with.
Yeah but at the same time, Kayaba allowed them to be moved since he allowed them to be transported in hospital. Then, there is two possibilities : A) there is no gyroscope to read movement or B) there is but there were disabled for a short time. If it's A, it's definitively doable and the blueprint would tell that since it's a mass produced product.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
Also, I'm going to assume that you're not actually familiar with explosives, but suffice to say that what you proposed is an extremely bad idea. If you're going to do that, you might as well just shoot them in the head with a gun, it'll be less messy.
You're right, I'm not but we see every time the cop exploding just the lock of a door on the TV with little explosive, is it just bullshit ? ^^''

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starlightz View Post
Getting this from Q&A thread for Alucard
If thousands people get their brains fried because that organization tried to carelessly remove / destroy NervGear, you know what will happen.
You're right about that but it's the other way around too : if thousands more players die while under the surveillance of the hospital/government they will be held responsible for theses deaths as well. Life is hard eh ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Starlightz View Post
Even by now I can't remember when was the last time important hospitals in my country had power-outage.
For an hospital yes, they have counter-measure but I'm wondering how they managed to take care of 8'000 persons in only 2 hours knowing they are in the entire Japan. It would be nothing hard if it was 10 persons in a small village but I'm guessing most where in Tokyo and it's probably not very easy to make room for thousands of peoples in such short time.

My point being : there is a good probability that some stayed in their room. And what if someone who had one of the 10'000 license didn't connect right away but one day later ? What if an employe of the society tried the game ?
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Old 2012-07-17, 14:38   Link #54
kyp275
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Originally Posted by Alucard24 View Post
yeah, ok ....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_shielding

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alucard24 View Post
Well, if you nuke the whole freaking server, I don't think any monitoring will be relevant anymore xD And if there is no more link between the NervGear and the server, there will be no kill switch to press, isn't it ?
You're assuming everything is server-side. Given that there are already automatic kill switch that is built into the helmet for tampering, it would be naive to think that there wouldn't be something put in place for something as obvious as taking out the server. Kayaba is a genius, not an idiot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alucard24 View Post
Yeah but at the same time, Kayaba allowed them to be moved since he allowed them to be transported in hospital. Then, there is two possibilities : A) there is no gyroscope to read movement or B) there is but there were disabled for a short time. If it's A, it's definitively doable and the blueprint would tell that since it's a mass produced product.
Flawed assumption, you have no idea what kind of technology are present in a NervGear, thus you cannot assume that those two are the only methods available.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alucard24 View Post
You're right, I'm not but we see every time the cop exploding just the lock of a door on the TV with little explosive, is it just bullshit ? ^^''
One should not believe everything they see on TV. And no, you can certainly use explosives to destroy locks/doors, I've done so on multiple occasions, the key here is that there is not a human head behind said locks/doors. You put those explosives on that NervGear, you'll either kill the player with the blast, or kill the player with the frags created by the blast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alucard24 View Post
You're right about that but it's the other way around too : if thousands more players die while under the surveillance of the hospital/government they will be held responsible for theses deaths as well. Life is hard eh ?
Why? it's effectively a hostage situation, do you blame the police when the hostage taker kills hostages?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alucard24 View Post
For an hospital yes, they have counter-measure but I'm wondering how they managed to take care of 8'000 persons in only 2 hours knowing they are in the entire Japan. It would be nothing hard if it was 10 persons in a small village but I'm guessing most where in Tokyo and it's probably not very easy to make room for thousands of peoples in such short time.
You're vastly underestimating the logistical and medical capability of a modern industrialized nation. If Japan cannot manage the transportation of merely 10k people in a non-disaster situation, they've got way bigger problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alucard24 View Post
My point being : there is a good probability that some stayed in their room. And what if someone who had one of the 10'000 license didn't connect right away but one day later ? What if an employe of the society tried the game ?
You realize that there is a 100% probability that Argus, the company that published SAO, knows the information of all 10k players right? Also, considering that SAO is the first virtual MMO ever, you think the 10k gamers who were lucky enough to get it in what's effectively an extremely limited release would not play it on day 1?

and what is "an employe of the society"?
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Old 2012-07-17, 14:58   Link #55
Alucard24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
You're assuming everything is server-side. Given that there are already automatic kill switch that is built into the helmet for tampering, it would be naive to think that there wouldn't be something put in place for something as obvious as taking out the server. Kayaba is a genius, not an idiot.
That I understand but the helmet must receive some kind of signal to trigger the kill switch, right ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
Flawed assumption, you have no idea what kind of technology are present in a NervGear, thus you cannot assume that those two are the only methods available.
yeah, I can't but the tech for that time should be able to tell...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
You put those explosives on that NervGear, you'll either kill the player with the blast, or kill the player with the frags created by the blast.
Ok, my bad ^^

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
Why? it's effectively a hostage situation, do you blame the police when the hostage taker kills hostages?
not me but I see that a lot of time : "They should have attacked quicker" or "they failed to protect the citizens", something like that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
You're vastly underestimating the logistical and medical capability of a modern industrialized nation. If Japan cannot manage the transportation of merely 10k people in a non-disaster situation, they've got way bigger problems.
If you say so. As for where I live, I know that, if it was needed to move in only 2 hours 10k people, it would be chaos ! And furthermore, there would be not enough bed in the hospital for taking in 10k people in addition to the others sick peoples !

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
?

and what is "an employe of the society"?
Sorry, I meant someone who work in the company who made the game (thanks for reminding me his name btw).
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Old 2012-07-17, 15:24   Link #56
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alucard24 View Post
That I understand but the helmet must receive some kind of signal to trigger the kill switch, right ?
more like if there isn't constant signal it will kill immediately.


Quote:
yeah, I can't but the tech for that time should be able to tell...
you don't know the answer to that question. You are only supposing the setting has that tech,


Quote:
not me but I see that a lot of time : "They should have attacked quicker" or "they failed to protect the citizens", something like that.
considering the scope of the issue, decisions are going to be made by top politicians and politicians when presented with the 2 bad choice will pick the one that causing them the least harm. Which rather then making the wrong choice is nothing.



Quote:
If you say so. As for where I live, I know that, if it was needed to move in only 2 hours 10k people, it would be chaos ! And furthermore, there would be not enough bed in the hospital for taking in 10k people in addition to the others sick peoples !
while the number of people affected is probably concentrated around Tokyo. Not all of the 10k will be in the Tokyo area. The largest concentration will be in Tokyo, the rest will be spread out around the country.
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Old 2012-07-17, 15:40   Link #57
Asuras
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What if you just pulled the helmet off really fast?

Maybe place some lead padding in between the microwave delivery point and the user's head?
Drown the person in water?
Fire a gun at the battery compartment at the same time as you cut a wire? It'd be really easy to make a machine that times that near-perfectly.
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Old 2012-07-17, 15:49   Link #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asuras View Post
What if you just pulled the helmet off really fast?

Maybe place some lead padding in between the microwave delivery point and the user's head?
Drown the person in water?
Fire a gun at the battery compartment at the same time as you cut a wire? It'd be really easy to make a machine that times that near-perfectly.
and who takes responsibility if it goes wrong and somebody dies?
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Old 2012-07-17, 16:26   Link #59
Asuras
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You test the machine on a dummy. Obviously they have unused disconnected NervGear helmets lying around from the families who already removed them. You continue to test and test it multiple times, until you get a good success rate. It's just like a drug. They have warning labels, but people still use them. You take the chances that a generally successful product may cause harm, in hopes that you get cured.

At that point it becomes a parent's/family's choice. They're in a coma-like state, and they can either bet on their loved one beating the game (highly unlikely), or they use the method I described above. Then it's their responsibility, whether their loved one dies or not.
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Old 2012-07-17, 16:36   Link #60
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asuras View Post
You test the machine on a dummy. Obviously they have unused disconnected NervGear helmets lying around from the families who already removed them. You continue to test and test it multiple times, until you get a good success rate. It's just like a drug. They have warning labels, but people still use them. You take the chances that a generally successful product may cause harm, in hopes that you get cured.

At that point it becomes a parent's/family's choice. They're in a coma-like state, and they can either bet on their loved one beating the game (highly unlikely), or they use the method I described above. Then it's their responsibility, whether their loved one dies or not.
and the parents/family is going to ask for a guarantee, you think anyone will stick their neck out guarantee whatever is recommended?
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