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View Poll Results: Critique of Episode 02
10 out of 10: Near Perfect... 36 19.78%
9 out of 10: Excellent... 49 26.92%
8 out of 10: Very Good... 43 23.63%
7 out of 10: Good... 32 17.58%
6 out of 10: Average... 16 8.79%
5 out of 10: Below Average... 1 0.55%
4 out of 10: Poor... 2 1.10%
3 out of 10: Bad... 1 0.55%
2 out of 10: Very Bad... 0 0%
1 out of 10: Torturous... 2 1.10%
Voters: 182. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-07-17, 13:37   Link #381
Lantern
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eratas123 View Post
Question: Why didn't Kirito just say that Diabel was a Beta tester? I thought if he said it like "Diabel was a beta tester too! That didn't stop him from making this group!" then they'd realize that just because you're a beater doesn't mean you have to be selfish.

Cline's a really nice guy, though. His first thought about the situation isn't "Oh God, I should stay alive!" or "What's my advantage?" but rather "I gotta help my friends!"
Well, logically speaking:

1 - The party is already agitated and pissed off. Their hindsight tells them that moment that "Beta-Testers are evil".

2 - Kirito is already exposed as a Beta-Tester aka branded as the bad guy. Would you believe anything that he says to defend himself? It's much easier to convince people of what they want to believe in, which in this case is that Kirito "is a Beta-Tester and thus is bad guy."

3 - Finally, revealing that their leader hid his identity as a Beta-Tester will further agitate the party and invoke distrust among the players, further dividing the community. Such is the last thing we need in a death game.

Hope that helps.

Last edited by Lantern; 2012-07-17 at 13:49.
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Old 2012-07-17, 13:41   Link #382
Utsuro no Hako
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Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
I'm not talking about his approach to clearing. I'm talking about his superior understanding of the game. He can be a solo-er, but at least share his information publicly. He doesn't provide help to others at all in that form either. When there's nothing to lose.

The only reason I can imagine is in situations like the last-hit bonus. He wants certain non-repeatable rewards to himself.

He hasn't changed at all in episode 2. He's still keeping everything to himself, where there's no apparent need to. Friends and companions is a different story. That's not what I'm talking about.
Kirito's an unsociable 14/15 year old kid caught in a life or death death situation. Of course he's not making the smartest decisions.
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Old 2012-07-17, 13:49   Link #383
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Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
I'm not talking about his approach to clearing. I'm talking about his superior understanding of the game. He can be a solo-er, but at least share his information publicly. He doesn't provide help to others at all in that form either. When there's nothing to lose.

The only reason I can imagine is in situations like the last-hit bonus. He wants certain non-repeatable rewards to himself.

He hasn't changed at all in episode 2. He's still keeping everything to himself, where there's no apparent need to. Friends and companions is a different story. That's not what I'm talking about.
He's one of the guys that collected the info for that guidebook. Despite him putting on an act and saying he knows more then any informationbroker he and said informationbroker are actually friends.
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Old 2012-07-17, 13:51   Link #384
Eratas123
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Did Kirito actually feel hunger in this episode? He was eating bread, but I doubt his real body, which is most likely at an IV at this point, would take that. Is it just for mental satisfaction?
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Old 2012-07-17, 13:54   Link #385
Lantern
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Originally Posted by Eratas123 View Post
Did Kirito actually feel hunger in this episode? He was eating bread, but I doubt his real body, which is most likely at an IV at this point, would take that. Is it just for mental satisfaction?
They actually touched on the hunger mechanic in episode 1, during the scene where Klein is talking about his pizza.

Players can still feel it with their in-game stomach, even if it doesn't affect their IRL bodies. The server basically keeps sending signal to your brain that tells you "YOU'RE HUNGRY" until you eat something. You won't die even if you don't eat, but imagine the pain of your in-game growling stomach.

Gotta feel bad for them players.
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Old 2012-07-17, 13:57   Link #386
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Originally Posted by LKK View Post
I interpreted Kirito's solo stance differently than you did. I didn't see it as hoarding himself to increase his own survivability but rather as avoiding a responsibility for what might happen to others. He considered partnering with Klein in episode 1 but when Klein wanted to bring along his friends, that's when Kirito backed off. I felt that he didn't want to be responsible if anything went wrong to the members of the larger group. By episode 2, Kirito had come to the realization that whether he liked it or not, he would have to join up with other people at least to accomplish the big goals. If he still felt the being a loner was the best course at all times, he would never have gone to the boss meeting in the first plae.
He knew from the beginning it'd take a lot of raiders to take down a boss. It's debatable whether he planned to be one of them, but they needed every hand for the first boss. (They didn't even have enough for a full raid group.)

One thing to take into account wrt Klein: Kirito probably overestimated how many players would be eager enough to risk their lives to level up. He's probably right that the fields around starting city are completely overgrazed, and maybe the first few villages after that, but there's plenty of room for the top players.

Though if Kibaou's to be believed, there was an advantage to beating the rush.
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Old 2012-07-17, 14:16   Link #387
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Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
I'm not talking about his approach to clearing. I'm talking about his superior understanding of the game. He can be a solo-er, but at least share his information publicly. He doesn't provide help to others at all in that form either. When there's nothing to lose.
Did he actually turn down anyone looking for information? What kind of information should he share? Before the meeting he was probably always a few level ahead of normal players so he doesn't meet and interact with them that often. After the meeting there was that guidebook written by other beta tester - which contains enough necessary information for everyone to beat the boss (or at least it's supposed to). Should he, by then, tell everyone about everything in other levels so that:
- everyone know he's a beta tester
- later people will be in his grinding / questing spots, getting his mobs, lower his leveling efficiency, thus lower his survivability
?
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Old 2012-07-17, 14:39   Link #388
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The anime looks to be spiraling downwards to hell. I can't believe that they didn't even explain Kirito's actions of acting as a Beater properly. No monologues or anything. What the heck, if I didn't read the light novel before I wouldn't know what the hell was going on. My god this episode 2 is so, SO bad.
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Old 2012-07-17, 15:07   Link #389
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Originally Posted by Craxuan View Post
I can't believe that they didn't even explain Kirito's actions of acting as a Beater properly. No monologues or anything.
Was it really necessary for them to explain why Kirito acted as he did? Because while Kirito's reasons for doing so weren't explained, they were fairly obvious (unify the group and prevent a beta tester witch hunt).
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Old 2012-07-17, 15:11   Link #390
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Originally Posted by Aphrah View Post
Was it really necessary for them to explain why Kirito acted as he did? Because while Kirito's reasons for doing so weren't explained, they were fairly obvious (unify the group and prevent a beta tester witch hunt).
i agree with that, there really shouldn't be a need to spell out everything. the whole ep gave enough clues to reason out why Kirito did what he did.
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Old 2012-07-17, 15:13   Link #391
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Why does Asuna have a higher HP than Kirito? Kirito you wimp...
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Old 2012-07-17, 15:16   Link #392
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Originally Posted by Craxuan View Post
I can't believe that they didn't even explain Kirito's actions of acting as a Beater properly.
...It needed explaining?


Only if the trope is true and viewers ARE morons, which is very unlikely.
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Old 2012-07-17, 15:17   Link #393
Elestia
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Considering Kirito was explaining the animosity towards Beta Testers during the episode it was kind of obvious why he decided to take on the role of the villain. He even classified himself as a "Beater" to separate himself from the Beta Testers to avoid them being persecuted in a witch hunt. Pretty damn obvious, IMO.
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Old 2012-07-17, 15:27   Link #394
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
He knew from the beginning it'd take a lot of raiders to take down a boss. It's debatable whether he planned to be one of them, but they needed every hand for the first boss. (They didn't even have enough for a full raid group.)

One thing to take into account wrt Klein: Kirito probably overestimated how many players would be eager enough to risk their lives to level up. He's probably right that the fields around starting city are completely overgrazed, and maybe the first few villages after that, but there's plenty of room for the top players.

Though if Kibaou's to be believed, there was an advantage to beating the rush.
Well four days after Aria it takes three people a week to do the first quest Kirito completed a few hours into the game. There's a big advantage to staying ahead of the pack.
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Old 2012-07-17, 15:29   Link #395
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Most of the message in that episode was visual only anyway.
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Old 2012-07-17, 15:52   Link #396
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people should realize, the way they are handling the story its how "survival game" plots are usually done, with the world setting, player motives and actions beign explained as the story progresses, to keep a "thriller" atmosphere, examples of this are BR, TWEWY or gantz.

Spoiler for Comparison with madoka magica:
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Old 2012-07-17, 15:59   Link #397
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forever View Post
Why does Asuna have a higher HP than Kirito? Kirito you wimp...
My guess would be class build. Kirito seems to be some sort of rogue type and Asuna seems to be more the standard fighter/swordsman type.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craxuan View Post
The anime looks to be spiraling downwards to hell. I can't believe that they didn't even explain Kirito's actions of acting as a Beater properly. No monologues or anything. What the heck, if I didn't read the light novel before I wouldn't know what the hell was going on. My god this episode 2 is so, SO bad.
From the greatest thing ever to "spiralling downwards towards hell" in 2 episodes....which also happen to be the openers. This anime has way to much drama coming from the fans, like holy shit lol! It's somehow everything I expected to happen with the first two episode discussions only maybe a little worse even.
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Old 2012-07-17, 16:05   Link #398
xenapan
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Originally Posted by Lantern View Post
Lemme try break this down:

A) Resource
- Try check back the scene where Kirito was showing Klein battle mechanics. The mob respawned nearby after being killed, proving that resource do indeed respawn.
- Combining with Kirito's statement regarding limited resource, this implies that while resource do replenish the rate isn't sufficient for the initial population, hence the competition. I'd admit this might require a little experience in MMO games to understand.
- Personally I still don't see how Kirito is acting like resource isn't scarce. And besides, the front line is already close to the end of Floor 1. Assuming that he kept up with advancing during this month, he'd probably already reach the saturation point of exp/items/gold for the floor. There is nothing much you can do after that besides mapping until the next floor opens up. And obviously you can't solo a RAID boss, not in a death game.

C) People
- Only a tiny portion of the initial population mustered enough courage to leave the safety of the starting town. The rest are either i) too scared ii) too depressed iii) in denial iv) wishful hoping for IRL help v) gave up. Evidently shown by having only a handful of players showing up for the raid strategy meeting in ep2.
- Panicing doesn't necessary mean running around like a bunch of headless chickens. When you know there's no way to escape the world, what are you going to do? I'd stay put in the safe zone.

D) Kirito's Beta experience
- There could be many reasons why he couldn't find the boss room. But I'd say these reason will also require minimum knowledge of MMO mechanics.
- My interpretation is that, Kirito as a soloer has difficulty reaching the boss room without unreasonable risk. Dungeon mobs and traps don't exist for just fluff.
- Some other take is that, room layout changed. Or the pathway requires some dangerous maneuvering. I'll list an example from another NDS game: Etrian Odyssey. In that game's dungeon, it's relatively easy to guess where the boss room is. The hard part is finding the hidden door that leads to it. Now, apply this scenario to SAO: death game version. Not too farfetched even if it takes over a month to find the way in.

E) PVP
- Do remember that PVP in SAO = murder. Being only 1 month into the death game, I don't think anybody has degrade through the psychological barrier where they can attempt murder yet. Not to mention, there isn't enough resource for anyone to attempt proper PVP. Lvl 1 gear vs Lvl 1 gear? Ehhhh
- I cannot say more regarding PVP.

F) Time
- Again, a huge portion of the population is still hiding in town to be of help with any real progress. Right now there is a serious lack of human resource. Which is exactly why the raid in this episode is significant, as Diabel put it in the meeting. It will bring a thread of hope to the rest of the people if they can defeat the boss of the 1st floor, and encourage more people to join the front line.
A/C/F)
You cant have it both ways. Either
a) the majority of the population is hiding
or
b) the majority is playing it safe.
If they are hiding its hard to imagine the respawn rate being the limiting factor.
If they are playing it safe, they would form up into large groups where its much harder to get killed and stick to low level monsters.. the equivalent of sharing.
And given monsters respawn resources aren't scarce. People playing it safe would simply wait until the first group figures out the boss then wait for the next group.. or the next and grind levels till they feel ready. Then just stick to killing stuff that cant OHKO you. Not to mention this would form longer term parties like guilds/factions or whatever their version is in this game. And groups can easily empty out large areas to do exploring.

Not to mention during the scene where Kirito offers to share the location of the quest to get cream for the bread with Asuna, its practically implied that even while you dont NEED to eat, theres a strong compulsion to (and the majority of the food tastes bad) with Asuna devouring the bread after she gets a taste when at the beginning of the conversation she asks him if he really thinks the bread is delicious.

Like Klein's reaction to being hit by the boar. We see pain and hunger are simulated which would force most people to go out and fight if only to get enough money to buy food. Have you ever gone without food for extended periods of time? Remember at this point its a MONTH in. Anyone that doesn't intend on sitting in the opening town would definitely be forced to fight to get money to buy food to prevent or at least reduce the hunger pains to the point where you can still fight. One does not simply ignore hunger pains for a month. maybe some monks do. but these are game crazy kids who bought out the 10k copies of this game in a matter of seconds of it being released. One can safely assume none of them have spent a day without food much less a week or a month.

d) So far neither episode have given ANY indication there are traps of any sort. And given that he's had a MONTH to spend on the first level. Like you said in a) Kirito has most likely reached the saturation point. There should be absolutely nothing short of the actual dungeon boss itself that would stop him from being able to explore. Yet he's not outside of town exploring in ep2. Hes sitting in town waiting on a discussion of boss tactics (that he doesn't know will turn into an announcement that the boss room has found). Not to mention, play episode 1 again to the spot where Kirito talks to Klein about going to the second village. You will see 6 villages marked in red dots. The map covers probably 80% of the first floor. and you can CLEARLY see there's a round green shaded object on the top right hand side. Obviously THE only dungeon on the map. And he access the map via his menu. I'm pretty sure more than one other person has figured out how to use the map. Not to mention start of ep2 you see the outline structure of the dungeon/boss section and then again after they walk through the forest... to the giant pillar of stone/whatever that the camera pans up on.

e) PVP needn't be fatal. Just dangerous enough to force someone away from their goal. They just need to hurt them to a point where it would be dangerous to either continue fighting themselves or the monster they are after.

Oh and watching it again.. i found Diabel's death scene to be kinda stupid. Kirito obviously has a potion in his hand.. but doesnt use it.
Then again with Kibao blaming the betas (didn't we go over this at the start of the episode? Betas wrote the guide book. Whats more Diabel says it the latest edition meaning someone managed to revise it, also implying people can share information via the guidebook updating it like a wiki.

Last edited by xenapan; 2012-07-17 at 16:23.
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Old 2012-07-17, 16:08   Link #399
Rennir
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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
My guess would be class build. Kirito seems to be some sort of rogue type and Asuna seems to be more the standard fighter/swordsman type.
I thought it was just a part of the system, where your HP bar is shown bigger than the people in your party? Have to go back and check Kirito's screen when they first formed a party...
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Old 2012-07-17, 16:15   Link #400
Kaioshin Sama
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Originally Posted by Rennir View Post
I thought it was just a part of the system, where your HP bar is shown bigger than the people in your party? Have to go back and check Kirito's screen when they first formed a party...
Oh well if that's what he's referring to then yeah that's how it is cause Kirito's was bigger when we saw it from his POV too. Now that I think about it I don't think we've actually seen a stat sheet for the characters and to be honest I doubt they ever show one.
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