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Old 2012-07-11, 02:29   Link #441
Judoh
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The man from 19 years ago is more like a caricature of Yasu. The story tries to tell us his motive is to get revenge against Natsuhi, and that he went out of his way to frame her for something she didn't do. All of the reasons you could come up with for the TMF19YA to do that revenge, pleasure from seeing natsuhi be framed, etc, are declared to be untrue with the red truth.

Claire was really the first time we saw behind the Beatrice persona, and saw her actual feelings.
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Old 2012-07-11, 02:40   Link #442
AuraTwilight
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I would argue we technically got a glimpse of that with the "Chick Beato" in EP6.
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Old 2012-07-11, 09:55   Link #443
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When I say "meet that person" I basically mean as a narrator, having access to their thoughts. We arguably have always "known" the person behind Beatrice through Beatrice, but it's a very different thing to speculate on who the person is based on what Beatrice does and actually see the person and understand their thinking. Beatrice/Shannon/Kanon are not the same person as their creator, even if they basically embody that person's desires or personality.

It's the difference between Genji talking about Beatrice-2 and what was going on in the 60s and actually getting access to the thoughts of 1960s Genji. We never really met Genji in the story, given a lack of exposition and scarcely even reference to his thoughts by the omniscient narrator. I'm not saying we had to get any first-person Genji... but it wouldn't have hurt anything, and might have even been interesting. There's a lot I'd like to know about what that man was thinking.
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I submit that a murder was committed in 1996.
This murder was a "copycat" crime inspired by our tales of 1986.
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Old 2012-07-11, 11:21   Link #444
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Originally Posted by Renall View Post
There's a lot I'd like to know about what that man was thinking.
EP1 : Well fuck this shit.
EP2 : No, I am too sober. This will not do. *THROWS KNIFE AT WALL*
EP3 : Wait, okay, but like, in my chest though?
EP4 : Jesus, just sit down Krauss, SIT DOWN. When bitches start trippin' bitches get slapped.

EP5 : ...
EP6 :What is she even doing omg did she just jump out a second story window WHY DO I BOTHER.
EP7 : Yeah, the master used to be a right-sexy bastard. Taiwan and my heart carried the scars for years to come.
EP8 : ... at least Ronove got a smiling sprite. Oh well, that's right, just ignore ol' Genji. Eating my cake alone. Yup.
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Old 2012-07-11, 14:40   Link #445
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Best Genji.
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Old 2012-07-18, 16:37   Link #446
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I actually highly doubt that "The man from 19 years ago" is Yasu. Mainly because although Yasu hates Natsuhi she wouldn't torture her like that. Yasu would've killed her and be done with it like she did in all the other arcs where she is the villian. First Arc she planned to kill Natsuhi first and she also didn't kill Jessica. Second Arc she did kill Natsuhi first. Third Arc I don't think Yasu was the culprit. Fourth Arc she again kills Natsuhi first. Also other things I've noticed. Natsuhi's family doesn't die until she is already dead. This of course doesn't work with Ep 1 because she was supposed to be a first twilight sacrifice with Krauss. Anyway this is getting too long and I think you get the point. And out of everything if you have a problem that can't be solved Blame George.
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Old 2012-07-18, 17:07   Link #447
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According to EP8, Yasu doesn't hate or resent Natsuhi at all.
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Old 2012-07-18, 17:25   Link #448
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Well you do know what I mean though right with her killing Natsuhi first all the time.
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Old 2012-07-18, 20:31   Link #449
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Uh....no? Because Natsuhi only dies first in the second and fourth arcs. In every arc she lives to the final Twilights; like, 8th and higher.

And then there's the sixth arc where she's murdered by Erika.
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Old 2012-07-19, 11:42   Link #450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
Uh....no? Because Natsuhi only dies first in the second and fourth arcs. In every arc she lives to the final Twilights; like, 8th and higher.

And then there's the sixth arc where she's murdered by Erika.
Episode 7, she's killed at the first twilight.
Episode 8, she's killed at the second twilight.
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Old 2012-07-19, 13:45   Link #451
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Yasu isn't even involved in Episode 7's only scenario that has murders, so I have no clue what you're talking about.

Or why this isn't in the spoiler/theory thread, for that matter.
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Old 2012-07-19, 15:30   Link #452
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Yea, like Drifloon said, EP7 and EP8 are entirely irrelevant.
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Old 2012-07-20, 18:05   Link #453
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Uh....no? Because Natsuhi only dies first in the second and fourth arcs. In every arc she lives to the final Twilights; like, 8th and higher.

And then there's the sixth arc where she's murdered by Erika.
And I explained why she doesn't die in the other arcs already. She wasn't killed in Arc 1 because of the scorpion pendent on her door. Then Arc 3 because in my theory at least Eva is the killer.
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Old 2012-07-20, 18:06   Link #454
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But Yasu still did the first Twilight of EP3. So why wasn't Natsuhi a victim, then?
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Old 2012-07-20, 21:44   Link #455
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welp....looks like my theory is wrong then oh well.
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Old 2013-08-18, 07:37   Link #456
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At the moment it looks like I'm nearing the end of ep8 and... just... Sigh...

I'm somewhere between absolutely livid and "bah, whatever".

Shkannon? Really?

To begin with I'm not a big fan of multiple personalities, but here it's Shannon/Kanon/Yasu/Beatrice all in one person? Ain't it gettin' bit crowded in one there?

I'm pretty sure it's been discussed to death but how does even Shannon/Kanon make any sort of sense?

Even besides the fact that either Jessica was about to become a lesbian or George was in for a BIG surprise on his wedding night.

Was everyone that friggin' dense not to notice there is one less person on the island tahn there's supposed to be? Everyone knew? How does someone pull off the whole change of clothes, make-up, boobs between work, studies etc. etc. fulwilling the jobs and shifts of 2+ people at once.. In my mind the whole thing reeks of crap bigger than 10 tons of gold.

Neither am I the fan of the fact that it is all but stated "if you can't figure out the truth then you don't deserve to know it anyway". Well forgiiiiiiive me for being a dumb reader.
Or even better "oh, but the truth doesn't matter anyway". Of course not, because then there's no reason to try and answer anything.

The whole "deeper meaning" is more annyoing than anything else. And I'm not a big fan where readers have to try and explain the inconsistencies or mysteries in the story when it's not even certain that all of them can be explained properly or are just plot holes.

The feeling I get from Chiru arc is kinda very similiar to Lost - trying to build itself bigger and deeper than it actually is supposed to be.
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Old 2013-08-18, 08:56   Link #457
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Well, Shkanon is certainly not very popular, but it is considered the truth of the gameboards. However as you probably noticed, the "gameboards" are nothing more than some kind of fiction, carrying some truthful elements, but not the whole truth of what happened.

On the spoiler forum we usually talk about "Rokkenjima Prime" regarding the "real events on Rokkenjima" and a lot of us think, that Kanon did not exist aside from his apperance at Jessica's school and that Yasu was NOT the actual killer in R-Prime.

It is sad though that we never got to know until now what really happened in the end. Maybe the EP8 manga will give some clarity.
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Old 2013-08-18, 09:14   Link #458
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Well, Shkanon is certainly not very popular, but it is considered the truth of the gameboards. However as you probably noticed, the "gameboards" are nothing more than some kind of fiction, carrying some truthful elements, but not the whole truth of what happened.
But then what were we actually supposed to solve? It's been stated that the mystery is solvable. What mystery then? The gameboards or what happened in reality? Gameboards are clearly supposed to be solvable otherwise what the fuck.

And while Shannon/Kanon might help explain some stuff on a purely mechanical level, it completely falls apart the moment I try to apply it to the everyday lives on Rokkenjima.

Also. Can anyone even guess what was the truth that Battler reached that helped him understand everything? And apparently the one all the readers were supposed to reach at ep4.
Because if it was just Battler's sin and Shannon's broken love for Battler I kinda-sorta figured it by ep5, however IMO it still doesn't explain jack.

As far as I'm conserned all of my arguments why Shannon can't suddenly start killing everyone because Battler doesn't remember his promise still stand. + Shannon was preparing at least two years in advance thanks to the shrine explosion.

At one point I considered that Genji's worst fears were realised - once Kinzo found out who Shannon is he raped her and then Shannon killed him. It would actually make sense remembering Beato's remarks about Kinzo in ep4. But it still wouldn't explain how Battler becomes the trigger.
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Old 2013-08-18, 09:56   Link #459
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Do you remember this?

"If Battler would have come a year later or a year earlier an incident would have happened, but it would not be as big an incident as it was in 1986."
If Battler came back in 1985 Shannon would have suddenly "disappeard" and gone off with Battler.
If Battler came back in 1987 Shannon would have finished her work after the conference in 1986 and would have gone off with George.
Kanon would have "disappeard" as well of course, IF he even existed in R-Prime at all. Of course "Jessica's love" always had lowest priority.

But actually Battler came back in the 1986 conference and at the same day, George confessed to her. It became complicated.

But in R-Prime Shannon probably never planned to kill anyone, but instead do nothing more than to reproduce what connected her to Battler: Mysteries. And not actual ones with real murders, but just an act, people playing dead, etc, maybe to push Battler to try to solve the epitaph as well. However not everyone was involved and someone may become paranoid and have commited real murders.



About the gameboards: All of them are solvable (EP5 and EP6 as well to a certain extent, but those don't really have all that many things to solve until their suspension). In a few cases you may actually find 2 possible ways to commit them, but most should have a definite answer. Now that you know the who-dunnit, the how-dunnit is actually easy.
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Old 2013-08-18, 10:31   Link #460
Sauzer
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Do you remember this?

"If Battler would have come a year later or a year earlier an incident would have happened, but it would not be as big an incident as it was in 1986."
If Battler came back in 1985 Shannon would have suddenly "disappeard" and gone off with Battler.
If Battler came back in 1987 Shannon would have finished her work after the conference in 1986 and would have gone off with George.
Kanon would have "disappeard" as well of course, IF he even existed in R-Prime at all. Of course "Jessica's love" always had lowest priority.

But actually Battler came back in the 1986 conference and at the same day, George confessed to her. It became complicated.
Yeah, I remember that part. However I still don't follow the logic - "I can't choose who I love more, so better kill everyone and blow up the island" =/

And it doesn't change the fact that I think Shannon/Kanon is BS. I had an easier time swallowing Hinamizawa syndrome than this switcharoo. Not to mention in ep5 they are said and shown as 100% different people and witnessed by detective Erika with all of her hax powers activated.

And what about "It is forbidden for the case to be resolved with clues that are not presented.";"It is forbidden for a character to disguise themselves as another without any clues."?
The fact that Kanon's body is not found in ep2 and ep4 is enough to say that Kanon and Shannon are one body?
Kanon being weak as a girl proves nothing. It's the other way around - Shannon being much stronger than a girl should be could count as suspicious. (And since that weakness is caused by an incident not known untill ep5+ it doesnt count anyway)
In ep3 after first twilight noone mentioned Kanon's or Shannon's body missing. Which means all of the parents+Nanjo are lying at the least.
Same in ep2 - after first twilight everyone except the cousins saw Shannon and Kanon together.
Which puts it into the realm of "everyone except the cousins is a cuplrit/accomplace or lying at one point or another". Which I suppose is one way to solve the crimes, but I didn't think that creating 6+ accomplaces was the right way to go at it.
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