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Old 2005-12-28, 23:00   Link #21
dreamless
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the makers getting too involved in doing a propaganda for their own extremist political views instead of making an enjoyable series. And random writings that they even forget what they have written before and have to rely on the side story manga to patch up the holes (and I still yet to see anything to patch up the "it's all just an experiment" line from Neo at the start of the series)

But then apparently it can get BANDAI enough money for a third series.
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Old 2005-12-28, 23:08   Link #22
Laik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Last_Hope
DID GSD really fail?

It certainly didnīt live up to the expectations of those wanting to see something more than a superrobot show, but as a superrobot/"superhero" show is GSD that horribly? Since that is what GSD is...?

In my book Destiny is approved, far from the best but far from the worst.

Not trying to prove anything here really (if anyone thinks Iīm referring to neodrags avatar and sig). But Destiny feels like it can be put in the same category with One Piece rather than, as close as, SEED. Thatīs what I think make so many people so frustrated with Destiny, you try to put it somewhere it donīt belong.
I agree.

Destiny didn't live up to other Gundam series or even SEED but it certainly wasn't as bad as most people make it out to be. A failure? Far from it. The series had moments that I wanted and liked to see and I actually watched it. Just about average? Probably. It had faults that I see in a lot of series that I dislike but the things I liked were just about around the number of things that I didn't like.

I never expected it to be the greatest Gundam ever or anything of the sort so I was content with how it was even if the pacing and the end irked me a bit. Regardless of my personal opinion, why did Destiny fail isn't a valid question because it didn't. Failed to give you want you wanted to see? Maybe. Generally, it just didn't deliver but that doesn't make it the garbage so many people say it is.

Man, I could see people just calling it a dissappointment but failure is taking it too far.
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Old 2005-12-29, 00:16   Link #23
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I rate Destiny as the second best Gundam TV show, so I wouldn't say that it failed. I think that it's not particularly suitable for some Gundam fans, and I'll leave my judgement at that.
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Old 2005-12-29, 00:54   Link #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dom33
first off i'm surprised shinji103,wingdarkness,or eidolon sniper-sensei didn't make this topic first.
okay now we all know destiny sucked and was the bigest letdown in gundam history.but we wonder why?well servral obvious reasons are reat of seed,old cast god-moding/plot devicing,nerfing shinn and his piloting skills but i belive the true cause to be the lack of planning.i mean i heard episode 41 wasn't going to be ANOTHER clipshow.that's proof.
Why did it fail? Cover your eyes bad script writing, that's why.
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Old 2005-12-29, 01:35   Link #25
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Putting a bit of humor on this thread, let me post this pic I've seen on Ridiculous Pictures Thread by red_comet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by red_comet
If it (the mission) had been successful, I wonder how many people would have been angry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant
And what the @#$% happened to Girty-Lue!!!!

I loved that ship! There was almost infinite tactical potential in that work-of-art, and yet they just kept it out of the war until it was used as an escape vessel, just to be blown up!

So much potential... wasted...
Not to mention that Destiny had so much potentials as well. Even though Kira and Lacus may be the most popular characters in NewType's character ranking, I still think they should have been left out. Sure, I was happy when Freedom made its re-entrance, but it was getting boring when Freedom wouldn't get damaged!!!

Until Shinn owned Kira , of course, then Strike Freedom comes out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FogHog
a certain director and writer couple caused GSD to fail
*sarcastically*Hmmm...I wonder who...? lol
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Old 2005-12-29, 04:05   Link #26
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All the reasons I think GSD fails have already been said.
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Old 2005-12-29, 04:23   Link #27
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well i thought GSD was good, that was untill Shinn owned Kira..
after that ife had a feeling that something had been missing.. something was different and i still dont get what

maybe because everyone got to argue with each other..
Shinn first kills Kira then has to kill Athrun.. o.o; witch he almost does... well in his head he did

and after that the fact that Freedom was always unscratched, yes of course untill Shinn owned Kira but then after that Shinn never had a chance, what annoyed me the most is all the recaps and re used animation

and the fact that Shinn's brain is the siz of a poo fly.. after all kinds of manipulation and after hearing strange things his mind doesnt go.. 'hey isnt this wrong' specially after scandinavia went boom!
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Old 2005-12-29, 04:29   Link #28
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The main reason for them to fail is because they reused too many scenes and at episode 50 they made shinn and Rey weaker compare to the other episodes.
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Old 2005-12-29, 04:32   Link #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babuji
The main reason for them to fail is because they reused too many scenes and at episode 50 they made shinn and Rey weaker compare to the other episodes.
agree with that, i think if GSD had more episode numbers it would have been much beter

or atleased no recaps all the time o.o;

and of course with lesser interference of Bandaii
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Old 2005-12-29, 06:30   Link #30
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What caused it to fail?
A writer's crap excuse for writing and the director's inability to correct said crap writing problems...

I mean, there was a number of things wrong... for one brining back all of the old cast and giving them the lead role, IMO, was a poor idea... After GS the character development for the old cast was done, there was little to build upon... the only characters they built up was Athrun and Cagalli, but that was after they knocked them down (it's like the forgot a lot of stuff that happened in GS)
other huge problems were things such as god-moding, unbelievable battles, the EA getting toss around throughout the entire series never putting up a decent fight...
You can tell that there was also pacing problems... the begining of the series seems very smooth and easy going, but by the end of the series it felt like it was just a huge rush to the finish

if i had to guess, i'd say that the series was poorly planned out in pre-production...

Quote:
Originally Posted by babuji
The main reason for them to fail is because they reused too many scenes
Y'know... i know re-used scenes are annoying and take away from the quality of the animation... but i find it hard to say that its the main cause for failure
I mean, re-used stuff has been done a lot in the past... and ofcourse, today there is a lot less of an excuse, but i wouldn't say that re-used scenes can be the main failing point... IMO, re-used scenes don't take THAT much away from a series as a whole
...it's an annyoance at best...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Last_Hope
It certainly didn´t live up to the expectations of those wanting to see something more than a superrobot show, but as a superrobot/"superhero" show is GSD that horribly? Since that is what GSD is...?
Y'know, personally, my only problem with thinking like that is that Gundam seed destiny was more like a superrobot show that tried to present itself as a military drama(more along the lines of most past gundam series)... despite the one-sided battles and such, it had similar feeling as most gundam series... it was like in denial or something...
That's why i give G gundam way more credit then i give GSD... G Gundam was a superrobot series and it KNEW it was a super robot series... i may not have liked it that much but it came out EXACTLY as it was presented and supposed to be
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Old 2005-12-29, 06:34   Link #31
Schneizel
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Quote:
well i thought GSD was good, that was untill Shinn owned Kira..
after that ife had a feeling that something had been missing.. something was different and i still dont get what
What was different was that Kira lost for once, and Shinn used actual tactics. This might be totally mind blowing, but it happened.

Anyway, to answer the "what caused gsd to fail?" question, obviously character balance... there was also this time when things seemed "pointless." Let's take Sting in example. Great example of pointless.
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Old 2005-12-29, 07:27   Link #32
Owaranai Destiny
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Now...GSD fail? Yes. Entirely scrap metal or just trash? Well....It isn't all that bad until it cannot be redeemed, but the plot and the character development, i think, are quite beyond repair.

@kodachrome: That was what I meant. The Extendeds were simply tossed aside once the old characters entered the scene (I won't say who...You all know.) Perhaps the episode plus with Stellar's "ghost" talking to Shinn was an attempt (very feeble, if I may add) to redeem them. Inconsistencies in battles as well, perhaps. It's more like Athrun and Kira use words to defeat their opponents. At least, the extra episode made me feel that that was their tactic:

Talk->Distract->Attack at the same time when they are off guard-> heh heh heh...We won!XD

Okay, I was joking. They probably didn't intend for that, but it was arranged such that it felt that way.
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Old 2005-12-29, 09:01   Link #33
Schneizel
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Well, Stellar's "ghost" did serve a purpose to Shinn's character development. She told Shinn that he can have a "tomorrow" too that he controls (because Shinn is like all emo over his survivor's guilt and how Rey is a clone so he thinks he doesn't deserve to live for himself) when he thinks he can't, so he... "opens his eyes" (ooh symbolism...) and see's his tomorrow in the destruction of Messiah (and thus Dullindal) and Lunamaria's eyes.

... of course this could just be trying to make sense of something that didn't make sense... ._.
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Old 2005-12-29, 09:29   Link #34
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Owaranai Destiny
@kodachrome: That was what I meant. The Extendeds were simply tossed aside once the old characters entered the scene (I won't say who...You all know.)
Hold on... So you are blaming Kira for ruining the series?

I thought it was clear people expected Kira to show up at some point in the sequel even before GSD aired? And no one really complained at the time?

It was how Kira's entrance was handled, and overall script problems, that drove GSD down hill. The fact that Kira's entrance coincides with the Shark-jumping doesn't mean he as a character has anything to do with it!

Or are you saying if Kira didn't show up at all the Fukuda couple would be able to make a better script? Seriously?

When GSD first aired, no one thought introducing Kira was a bad idea. It was when we realised Shinn's character development dropped to zero, and that the Fukuda couple already have trouble handling the characters they got, followed by the meaningless way the Minerva crew become secondary characters, that we know they had bitten off more than they could chew.

The is nothing wrong with re-introducing Kira. It was how he was reintroduced that was the problem. Kira as a character is not at fault; a better director would be able to fit him in seamlessly into the existing storyline. It's been done before, and there was no reason why it couldn't be done here except for sheer incompetence.

Many shows introduce characters half-way in the series. GSD failed because they weren't good enough, not because a character was inherently evil. (That's the impression i am getting, that the "Evil Kira" ruined everything. Get real, and get over it!)
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Old 2005-12-29, 10:12   Link #35
shaolo
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Let me see what I can add to this!

Unbalance Battles

Gap performce in MS power scoure

Unused character potential

Slow story paceing and pointless eps.
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Old 2005-12-29, 10:20   Link #36
dreamless
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant
It was how Kira's entrance was handled, and overall script problems, that drove GSD down hill. The fact that Kira's entrance coincides with the Shark-jumping doesn't mean he as a character has anything to do with it!
Kira is a fictional character created by Fukuda and the writers, so how he was handled and his story was scripted builds his very character. And bad scripts and characterization mean bad fictional character in terms of story and qaulity. Why people say Squall of FF8 suck? Why people say Yuna of FFX-2 suck? Because bad characterization.
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Old 2005-12-29, 10:34   Link #37
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamless
Kira is a fictional character created by Fukuda and the writers, so how he was handled and his story was scripted builds his very character. And bad scripts and characterization mean bad fictional character in terms of story and qaulity. Why people say Squall of FF8 suck? Why people say Yuna of FFX-2 suck? Because bad characterization.
Saying Squall of FF8 suck is one thing. Saying FF8 suck because of Squall is another.

Most named characters in GSD suck, period. But to claim Kira was the main reason the series failed is entirely groundless. You don't have to like him, but accusations should be just and fair.
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Old 2005-12-29, 11:04   Link #38
Owaranai Destiny
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant
Hold on... So you are blaming Kira for ruining the series?
Don't put words in my mouth. I simply said 'the old characters'. Was i specifically referring to Kira? It's a generalisation, and what I simply meant was the way they entered, mind you. I don't particularly have a strong dislike for any characters, and I defend or criticise them without jumping to conclusions or making false accusations either most of the time. (Hey, I'm human, I'm flawed, so sue me.) ^^

Quote:
I thought it was clear people expected Kira to show up at some point n the sequel even before GSD aired? And no one really complained at the time?
Many people didn't complain because it was supposedly said and paraded with posters that Athrun and Shinn were the main characters, with the Extendeds provided as their main opponents. Many foolish people (like me) chose to believe all they said from the start and all the hype.

Quote:
It was how Kira's entrance was handled, and overall script problems, that drove GSD down hill. The fact that Kira's entrance coincides with the Shark-jumping doesn't mean he as a character has anything to do with it!
Exactly. That's why I said not to put words in my mouth a while earlier.

Quote:
When GSD first aired, no one thought introducing Kira was a bad idea. It was when we realised Shinn's character development dropped to zero, and that the Fukuda couple already have trouble handling the characters they got, followed by the meaningless way the Minerva crew become secondary characters, that we know they had bitten off more than they could chew.
No one? Are you really that sure to tell me absolutely no one thought that?

Quote:
The is nothing wrong with re-introducing Kira. It was how he was reintroduced that was the problem. Kira as a character is not at fault; a better director would be able to fit him in seamlessly into the existing storyline. It's been done before, and there was no reason why it couldn't be done here except for sheer incompetence.
Ah...So what you imply is that the directors are at fault....No problem with me on that.

Quote:
Many shows introduce characters half-way in the series. GSD failed because they weren't good enough, not because a character was inherently evil. (That's the impression i am getting, that the "Evil Kira" ruined everything. Get real, and get over it!)
*Yawn*...You are starting to sound more like you are defending Kira like a true blue fan of his rather than providing more arguments. I never whined about Kira being evil for coming in, so get over it yourself. The thing that irked me was the way they introduced him as well as the fact that a main character gets introduced all of a sudden. We're not talking about characters that will take the sidelines, but a character that is absolutely essential to the story itself.
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Old 2005-12-29, 11:09   Link #39
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Call me whatever you like, but to suggest GSD failed because Kira showed up is clearly illogical to me.

Try this, then; would GSD be a better show if Kira was omitted? Would all the bad things somehow cease to be, even though they are not linked to his re-appearance?

And to be honest, my comments were not directed specifically at you, but at the many others who clearly claim it was Kira who single handedly ruined GSD.
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Old 2005-12-29, 11:11   Link #40
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My 2 cents as follows

I rate GSD over G-Gundam, and war in the pocket,

now i will say i does have good music, no knocking that, an dmy favorite eps is 32.

Moving on to my disection.

One thing that Irks me is the Chracter art inconsistency. At differnt angels, the people look different, face and hair wise.

My biggest gripe is How the EA were thrown around... i went form being a force to reckon with. to a force to be trampled over. not able to win a single battle. Their faces chracter were tossed to the way sided, adn they just started killin gem off one by one. Neo got lucky, an di was suprised Djibril lasted as long as he did. overall the EA just seemed to be idiots, but that wont stop me from liking them.

a lot of episodes just seemed to be wasted, most fo the earth based eps were a waste. so much time was wasted.

No character development, plot holes and devices...

thats about it unless i can think of anymore.
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