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View Poll Results: Critique of Episode 03
10 out of 10: Near Perfect... 49 22.17%
9 out of 10: Excellent... 39 17.65%
8 out of 10: Very Good... 52 23.53%
7 out of 10: Good... 46 20.81%
6 out of 10: Average... 18 8.14%
5 out of 10: Below Average... 6 2.71%
4 out of 10: Poor... 6 2.71%
3 out of 10: Bad... 0 0%
2 out of 10: Very Bad... 0 0%
1 out of 10: Torturous... 5 2.26%
Voters: 221. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-07-22, 08:32   Link #221
Klashikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
But... They told us how they met like 10 seconds into the episode. So we already know.
So I assume you know from the anime alone why kirito was doing there? Was Kirito looking for people? Materials? Having a weird backwards trip or anything?
Surely the answer was found in this thread, but in the given episode? nope, not at all.


Again, you don't need "all the tidbits information" spoonfed to the audience. What you need is how the scenes are stuck together in a correct flow to have a proper narration. Simply having 1 liner to set the context is quite poor, especially in an anime format.
There is a fine difference between simple "ho by the way, we met him at X and Y" than really having like 20 seconds or a flashback sequence format.
Again, another problem of "show, don't tell". And it isn't like you need a full extra episode to tweek transitions between scenes, although I could picture these 2 stories into 2 full episodes instead.
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Old 2012-07-22, 08:34   Link #222
Rayrah
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Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
Having the right weapons and a lot of pots and combination skills, that is obviously possible.
Possible, yes, but still very difficult. Or well, we can only assume how powerful Nicholas the Renegade was; for all we know, he could've been a push over for someone like Kirito because of his large size..

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Old 2012-07-22, 08:38   Link #223
MartianMage
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This is the first time I am saying this for this series(yeah first two eps did not bother me much) but this episode was incredibly rushed.

And the hell with that noob passing the blame to Kirito. He should be thankful he hanged out with them and protected them but I guess it's that "beater" thing again.

Can we get more Klein please?
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Old 2012-07-22, 08:40   Link #224
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Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
This is the first time I am saying this for this series(yeah first two eps did not bother me much) but this episode was incredibly rushed.

And the hell with that noob passing the blame to Kirito. He should be thankful he hanged out with them and protected them but I guess it's that "beater" thing again.
He was distraught. Can't really blame him.
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Old 2012-07-22, 08:41   Link #225
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Again, another problem of "show, don't tell". And it isn't like you need a full extra episode to tweek transitions between scenes, although I could picture these 2 stories into 2 full episodes instead.
When watching through SAO, I get the impression that the anime is trying its darnest to 'show, don't tell', yet at the same time, blitz through everything in the allocated time.

The results have been questionable at best.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
And the hell with that noob passing the blame to Kirito. He should be thankful he hanged out with them and protected them but I guess it's that "beater" thing again.
Imagine coming back home finding your entire family killed.

Besides, I can't imagine Kirito being in a most healthy mindset either. Chances are he didn't give the most accurate retelling. ( Would've had amounted to nothing but excuses anyway )
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Old 2012-07-22, 08:59   Link #226
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I don't see the complaints about lack of 'emotional' impacts at all.
Even if we don't know the full history/bloodtype/signs/biographies of the guild that died, we saw enough. At least enough for the important character, Kirito, to see the impact it has on him.
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Old 2012-07-22, 08:59   Link #227
MartianMage
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Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post
Imagine coming back home finding your entire family killed.

Besides, I can't imagine Kirito being in a most healthy mindset either. Chances are he didn't give the most accurate retelling. ( Would've had amounted to nothing but excuses anyway )
You still don't blame the guy who tried to save your family.

He just lashed out at him just because he found an excuse to do so. :-/
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Homura: Die monster! You don't belong in this world!
Kyubey: It was not by my hand that I am once again given flesh. I was called here by humans who wish to pay me tribute.
Homura: Tribute? You steal girls's souls, and make them your slaves!
Kyubey: Perhaps the same could be said of all religions.
Homura: Your words are as empty as your soul! Lolis ill-needs a savior such as you!
Kyubey: What is a loli? A miserable little pile of moe! But enough talk...have at you!
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Old 2012-07-22, 09:07   Link #228
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Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
You still don't blame the guy who tried to save your family.

He just lashed out at him just because he found an excuse to do so. :-/
Depends.

Imagine that your family has a friend with them by the time they were killed. That friend turned out to be relatively unharmed (Kirito probably chugged some pot / regen on the way back), and he could have saved your family if he didn't hide his martial arts / gun / sword or whatever elite skills he has from the beginning. Do you feel like blaming him now? =)
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Old 2012-07-22, 09:07   Link #229
Randrak42
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Well for once I'm an anime only watcher so I don't have the massive insight or detailed knowledge that the LN readers have on this but I liked this episode, it kept me glued to the screen and I admit at the end I nearly shed a tear.
I dunno but I believe people are forgetting that they have a limited number of episodes to begin with and if they want to show enough of the plot that the fans don't cry out in a rage they have to cut corners. It felt slightly rushed to me but the impact of Sachi's death on Kirito still stuck quite well in my opinion.
If they wanted to show everything perfectly true to the LN they would need what? 2, maybe 3 episodes for the Black Cat Guild plot? That would sacrifice time for further plots and so the fans would rage about the lack of material later on or how their favorite arc was cut short due to wasted time in earlier episodes.

Guys...just enjoy the damn thing and stop complaining every damn episode. We're on episode 3 and most of the posts I read through are people (mostly LN readers) going on about how rushed the anime is and whatnot.
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Old 2012-07-22, 09:09   Link #230
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Again, another problem of "show, don't tell". And it isn't like you need a full extra episode to tweek transitions between scenes, although I could picture these 2 stories into 2 full episodes instead.
Spoiler for comparison of episodes 1 to 3 to the novel and short stories they are based on, including an exposition about the author's writing style... but actually there are no spoilers about future events or really anything in here so it should be safe for public consumption:


Verdict: so far as an LN reader I am happy with the episodes, including this week's. In fact, watching episode one is what got me started on reading the LNs, and my opinion of the episodes 2 and 3 was not diminished by the source material.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
If they wanted to show everything perfectly true to the LN they would need what? 2, maybe 3 episodes for the Black Cat Guild plot?
Spoiler for exposition about the number of episodes required to adapt the relevant short story that episode 3 was based on, including information from the relevant short story that episode 3 was based on:
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Old 2012-07-22, 09:10   Link #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
If they wanted to show everything perfectly true to the LN they would need what? 2, maybe 3 episodes for the Black Cat Guild plot? That would sacrifice time for further plots and so the fans would rage about the lack of material later on or how their favorite arc was cut short due to wasted time in earlier episodes.
2 episodes would've already been too much; they would've more than likely had to resort to using filler scenes. Not mention that it'd mean that some of the more important plots would have to suffer.
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Old 2012-07-22, 09:11   Link #232
Bahamut
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...when feeling emotional it doesnt really matter what, where, when, why and how...as long as you know the who you can unlease your pain and anger to...reason is usually out the window...
...it may not solve anything but its the most basic stress reliever...

...i guess this is where you wish anime were 1 hr long like Katanagatari...they were able to fit in so much dialogue and other bs...if it werent for time slots being so hard to get...
...compared to dramas the amount of story time is like what? ...one third the time?
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Old 2012-07-22, 09:15   Link #233
MartianMage
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Originally Posted by Starlightz View Post
Depends.

Imagine that your family has a friend with them by the time they were killed. That friend turned out to be relatively unharmed (Kirito probably chugged some pot / regen on the way back), and he could have saved your family if he didn't hide his martial arts / gun / sword or whatever elite skills he has from the beginning. Do you feel like blaming him now? =)
Not like Kirito was holding back his prowess. All of this just boils down to the guy getting emotionally unstable and lashing out at the most convenient target. Understandable but I don't like it. :-/
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Homura: Die monster! You don't belong in this world!
Kyubey: It was not by my hand that I am once again given flesh. I was called here by humans who wish to pay me tribute.
Homura: Tribute? You steal girls's souls, and make them your slaves!
Kyubey: Perhaps the same could be said of all religions.
Homura: Your words are as empty as your soul! Lolis ill-needs a savior such as you!
Kyubey: What is a loli? A miserable little pile of moe! But enough talk...have at you!
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Old 2012-07-22, 09:16   Link #234
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I found this episode very touching and sad. It's taken me about a day to put into words why I felt sad because I agree with others that we didn't get to know the guild members very well. This morning, I realized my sadness came from the fact that I totally bought into the idea that while I may not have known them well, Kirito did. Here's a guy who has walked away from every offer of long-term companionship since the deadly game began. Yet he felt strongly enough about these people to change his policy of solitude. Then the decision went badly in the worst possible way. I felt for him.

The leader's suicide genuinely shocked me. I expected his anger. But his suicide? No, I didn't see that coming at all.

The time skips didn't confuse me. I've learned that whenever a date flashes on the screen, a time skip has likely occurred.

As for my episode ratings, I felt ep 3 was as strong as ep 1 & 2 storywise. Ep 2, I gave 1 less point than ep 1 because of the lack of scenery porn. With ep 3, I got some of my scenery porn back, so I bumped my rating for ep 3 back to the ep 1 level.
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Old 2012-07-22, 09:28   Link #235
Bahamut
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...if anything the whole point is to make kirito feel like sh**...
...ep2 being the part where he sees death as reality which can not be escaped...
...ep3 being the part where he realizes that he needs to protect his comrades but still fail because you cant save everybody...so he needs even more power...
...and a later arc being that even when you find another person(s) dear to you...who brought you back to the light only to still fail to save them...because you are still weak...
...then end arc you save your follower guild with some sacrificial act because you "dont want to see anybody dear to you to die again"...then start next season with that guild being your living legacy staring klein...
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Old 2012-07-22, 09:33   Link #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aphrah View Post
I concur. I was just wondering if the people complaining about there not being enough time to get attached to the characters would've felt different if this arc was split up into two episodes, as there seems to be some kind of idea that one episode is not enough for people to get attached to characters. I honestly wouldn't have been surprised if they were to say the same thing if this arc was two episodes long.
To answer your question, let me draw a comparison between the first three episodes of Sword Art Online, and the first thee episodes of another famous anime called Madoka Magica.

Spoiler for Major Madoka Magica spoilers for comparison purposes:


Long story short, I really think it would have been better if this episode had been spread out over two.

Imagine if this episode had ended on a relatively happy, upbeat note, and then you were hit with a ton of bricks as the guild was decimated in the first half of Episode 4.

It also doesn't help that we already had named character death in Episode 2. People can get accustomed to named character death if it happens frequently. It starts to yield diminishing returns, at least at an emotional level.


Quote:
Fair enough. It depends on the person; some are more inclined to tear up or cry during emotional and/or tragic moments than others.
Clannad made me cry a few times, and I certainly don't mind saying that. But Clannad did that, in part, because I was given a chance to get attached to its characters before anything all that bad happened to them.


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Originally Posted by Starlightz View Post
Depends.

Imagine that your family has a friend with them by the time they were killed. That friend turned out to be relatively unharmed (Kirito probably chugged some pot / regen on the way back), and he could have saved your family if he didn't hide his martial arts / gun / sword or whatever elite skills he has from the beginning. Do you feel like blaming him now? =)
Yeah, I can totally get where that guy is coming from.

From what I can gather, Kirito's biggest character flaw is that he distrusts other people too much. If there's one thing this episode impressed on me a lot, it's that. Saichi clearly liked the fact that Kirito was so high-level.

Who knows? Maybe the rest of the guild would have felt the same way. Maybe it would have better empowered Kirito to say "Nope, we shouldn't do that, it's too risky". "Well, if even Mr. High Level himself thinks that, then maybe we shouldn't take that risk".
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Old 2012-07-22, 09:56   Link #237
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Okay, too much exposition in episode 1, rambling forever about game mechanics in episode 2, and now Mr. Solo Protagonist joins a guild that's so against his character with no reason stated.

Yeah, production values may be sky high, but SAO is not for me. Dropped for good.
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Old 2012-07-22, 09:56   Link #238
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Who knows? Maybe the rest of the guild would have felt the same way. Maybe it would have better empowered Kirito to say "Nope, we shouldn't do that, it's too risky". "Well, if even Mr. High Level himself thinks that, then maybe we shouldn't take that risk".
^ This is probably one of (not necessarily the only) the reasons Kirito was beating himself up over it too much. Aside from not being strong enough, he's probably wondering what he could've done differently.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
So I assume you know from the anime alone why kirito was doing there? Was Kirito looking for people? Materials? Having a weird backwards trip or anything?
Surely the answer was found in this thread, but in the given episode? nope, not at all.
Actually, while I was curious, I didn't really care much for "Why was Kirito there". I understood why he decided to stick with that guild, which is a LOT more important.

That being said, the one thing the Anime didn't tell me is how the whole party seemed to be fine right up to the point where they ran into a trap and got owned.
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Old 2012-07-22, 09:56   Link #239
HandofFate
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Not gonna talk about the LN much, but yea, after reading this short short sidestory (like 8 pages)

The adaptation was fine. Any pacing issues or 'rushed' feeling is pretty much traced back to the source material.

"I don't know these guys, why should I care if they died" well, same goes for the LN then.

But anyway, even if the guild leader was left, and he didn't blame kirito, He probably would still have killed himself. There was literally nothing left for him.
All his friends dead.
All the money he spent earning is wasted on a guild house.
Only thing he have left is start over from scratch. Many people have killed themselves when faced with that situation.
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Old 2012-07-22, 09:59   Link #240
HandofFate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
So I assume you know from the anime alone why kirito was doing there? Was Kirito looking for people? Materials? Having a weird backwards trip or anything?
Surely the answer was found in this thread, but in the given episode? nope, not at all.


Again, you don't need "all the tidbits information" spoonfed to the audience. What you need is how the scenes are stuck together in a correct flow to have a proper narration. Simply having 1 liner to set the context is quite poor, especially in an anime format.
There is a fine difference between simple "ho by the way, we met him at X and Y" than really having like 20 seconds or a flashback sequence format.
Again, another problem of "show, don't tell". And it isn't like you need a full extra episode to tweek transitions between scenes, although I could picture these 2 stories into 2 full episodes instead.
I read the sidestory after watching the episode, and I had no trouble following the beginning scene.

Kirito saved them. Thanks a bunch. Join our happy guild ok? Good times by all.
That's all the viewer really needs to know to begin the setting of the episode.
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