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Old 2012-07-23, 16:54   Link #1341
NoemiChan
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"Yui, was it my fault that I grew and raise up as an American?"
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Old 2012-07-23, 16:58   Link #1342
Enternal
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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
Tl;dr Yuuya and Yui are both being asses to each other.

Imagine what would happen if a white officer said to Yuuya, "You're an embarrassment to white people." But because it's Yui she slides.

I think it's quite obvious at this point that neither of them are keen on being in Alaska. Yui wants to kill BETA. Yuuya wants to gonback to Groom Lake. And I czn sympathise withh his relative lack of combat skill; he's a goddamned test pilot, he job is to push the envelope and check to make sure everything's working as it's supposed to.

Also, while he does have a bit of an attitude, it's not that different from your average fighter jock.

Also, Yui seems to have taken a level in jerkass. She seems to relish cutting down Yuuya at every turn, even when he raises legitimate issues with the Fubuki. I have to wonder how much of the problems she's having with Yuuya are the result of them getting off on the wrong foot. Maybe if she hadn't been such a hardass...
While he does raise legitimate issues with Fubuki which Yui does want to hear as she allowed him to continue, he still said it in a cocky way without showing her any respect like before.

But I agree with DezoPenguin. Both needs to be slapped with a tuna. I'm just tired of seeing a one side bash of Yui here when it's obvious Yuuya have his own share in the problem.
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Old 2012-07-23, 17:00   Link #1343
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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
Tl;dr Yuuya and Yui are both being asses to each other.

Imagine what would happen if a white officer said to Yuuya, "You're an embarrassment to white people." But because it's Yui she slides.

I think it's quite obvious at this point that neither of them are keen on being in Alaska. Yui wants to kill BETA. Yuuya wants to gonback to Groom Lake. And I czn sympathise withh his relative lack of combat skill; he's a goddamned test pilot, he job is to push the envelope and check to make sure everything's working as it's supposed to.

Also, while he does have a bit of an attitude, it's not that different from your average fighter jock.

Also, Yui seems to have taken a level in jerkass. She seems to relish cutting down Yuuya at every turn, even when he raises legitimate issues with the Fubuki. I have to wonder how much of the problems she's having with Yuuya are the result of them getting off on the wrong foot. Maybe if she hadn't been such a hardass...
we just need a 3rd party to slap em with a large unfrozen freshly catched tuna [goes to call on Luka for some tuna]

then again maybe its because of the War stress thingy
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Old 2012-07-23, 17:02   Link #1344
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Originally Posted by DezoPenguin View Post
cutting him any slack for problems that are not his fault.*

*Not being able to properly pilot a TSF he'd never trained in the style of.
She did cut him some sack for that.

Quote:
Yui: You're not used to the machine so you could not keep your Fubuki under control. That's partly forgivable. However you could have slowly descent in circle instead of barging straight in. (She said it in a very nice tone and manner. She wasn't mocking him either. Just giving him advice).
What she called him on was his attitude during the simulation (barging straight in), not him being unable to properly pilot the mech.
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Old 2012-07-23, 17:11   Link #1345
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with all said and done Russia sis soo fukken secretive even thoguh its a JOINT project
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Old 2012-07-23, 17:22   Link #1346
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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
Tl;dr Yuuya and Yui are both being asses to each other.

Imagine what would happen if a white officer said to Yuuya, "You're an embarrassment to white people." But because it's Yui she slides.

I think it's quite obvious at this point that neither of them are keen on being in Alaska. Yui wants to kill BETA. Yuuya wants to gonback to Groom Lake. And I czn sympathise withh his relative lack of combat skill; he's a goddamned test pilot, he job is to push the envelope and check to make sure everything's working as it's supposed to.

Also, while he does have a bit of an attitude, it's not that different from your average fighter jock.

Also, Yui seems to have taken a level in jerkass. She seems to relish cutting down Yuuya at every turn, even when he raises legitimate issues with the Fubuki. I have to wonder how much of the problems she's having with Yuuya are the result of them getting off on the wrong foot. Maybe if she hadn't been such a hardass...
It seem that you're giving Yuuya a free pass, Yui actually went easy on him. Yui could have severely punished Yuuya for the amount of disrespect he has shown her, his superior officer. Instead she rightly gave him a tongue lashing since he was at fault here and could have cost his team their lives.
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Old 2012-07-23, 17:28   Link #1347
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Originally Posted by sikvod00 View Post
None of us are persuading the other, so let's just agree to disagree. You think the simulations are a pretty accurate measurement of real BETA combat and that Yui is possibly lying, and I don't.
Seems so.

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I have to disagree with you here, the fight started at the end of ep 3 when Yuuya went with the l33T 'merkin speech, he was shoot down in flames, maybe if Yui explained why it could have went better but i doubt it, he decided she was an enemy at this moment.

Moreover the way he spoke to her in front the squad ? that was some nice baiting at a superior, you snark at your superior (or anyone), you will not get much sympathies from me if you are not able to take what they will hurl back at you.
A the end of episode 3 I assume you mean the somewhat forced, but in no way impolite question asking her if she enjoyed watching the scene? I see no reason for that to warrant the insult it was given. A different wording as well as a proper explanation as to why she was disappointed and how to fix it would have done leagues to better the situation (we've seen in every other social interaction that Yuuyi is a reasonable enough person). But no, "I'm disappointed" was all that was given.

Yeah, if some random new boss comes up to me and tells me "I'm disappointed" in the most offensive tone possible (again, she constantly uses "kisama" when addressing him, which is far from a polite way of addressing someone) and walks of I'd be going "who the hell does that bitch think she is?" too.

Yui fired the first shot, then proceeds to harass him through every means without ever properly explaining why she pulls the crap she does (well, aside from the ever lovely "you're not Japanes enough") to further antagonize him.

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Originally Posted by Enternal View Post
Maybe I wasn't clear or something.

Yuuya IS American. However he's also racially Japanese (that's what I mean by roots so I don't know what you mean by bullshit). If he wasn't, he would not have been bullied as a child for being part Japanese. Are you telling me he's not Japanese and 100% American? Now that's bull. He is mentally 100% American but racially he's not.

He should just accept that racially he's part Japanese but he's 100% American and be done with that. The problem with Yuuya is he's not accepting the fact that he's part Japanese. It's like you hate your hand just because it's does not function well and you decide to say "I don't have a hand". Ok that might be a bad analogy but can't think of a better analogy.

I'm also an Asian American. I was born and raised as an American so I identify myself as an American 100%. But racially I'm Asian. People also see me as an Asian first and then an American. So I just accept that I'm Asian because that's what I really am BUT I am also an American 100% in mind. What Yuuya seems to be doing is discarding everything about himself being part Japanese. He's discarding his very own self as person. You cannot discard yourself. You are what you are. He's an Japanese-American. He is pretty much currently having something of an identity crisis. He does not want to accept his Japanese side of him. The part that makes him who he is.
I meant it's bull that him seeing himself as an American is somehow "wrong." Yes, genetically he is part Asian (note: Asian, not Japanese. Genetics distinguish only between hereditary genes, not country) but that has no bearing on his being "Japanese." His father was a Japanese Asian. He is an American Caucasian-Asian (assuming his mother was of European descent).

Genetically speaking, race has nothing to do with culture. Someone being born of parents of a different genetic race means nothing for their cultural focus. Whether someone chooses to identify himself with the culture of his or her parents is their own choice.

Like I said, this is where racism comes from, because this line of thinking is reeaaally easily translated into that realm (and indeed, we see some of that here in this episode).

Illustrating with an example: Black people mostly originate from Africa. Ergo, anyone with negro genes is by default African and should act like an African.

Sounds stupid? Well, that's the line of thinking you're using to validate Yui's complaints about Yuuyi's race. Just because his father was Japanese, he must by default accept that when people say he's Japanese, he's Japanese.

Hell no. He's part Asian. Big difference. He was born in America, he grew up in America, he has an American passport, acts according to the American culture, he is an American. Period. There is absolutely zero reason for him to bow down and start acting Japanese outside of his own choice.

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Originally Posted by Enternal View Post
So let see what happened during two scenes in this episode.

Spoiler:
Right, so not only does Yui ignore Yuuya's record and forces her own plans on him without providing as much as an explanation, she also starts pulling the racism card here, and to add insult to injury waves it in his face as if it gives her some form of superiority over him.

Yuuya had every right and power to nuke her career then and there, instead he kept giving clipped responses. Rude? Yes. Still less rude than being a complete racist? Ooooh hell yes.

Hell, everyone else was surprised Yuuyi didn't just deck the girl after that exchange.

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Originally Posted by Enternal View Post
His friend even told him that it's not a bad idea to start to understand the Japanese mindset to be able to pilot the TSF. However since he's currently having issues with his own Japanese side, he was not willing to learn how they think so that he could pilot the TSF efficiently unlike the other pilots on his team which is why he was slowing down the other pilots during the simulation battle. Which leads into:

Spoiler:


In the first scene, he clearly starts the fight with Yui which after repeatedly offending her with his behavior, she said what she said. He was clearly upset about that incident and then took the incident to heart and acted badly again during the second scene in the episode. The whole time Yui never really displayed much emotions but it was clear she's offended by Yuuya. It was also clear at how rude he was since that's what the episode was trying to show by zooming onto his smiling face and how he answered to Yui questions.
"She said it in a very nice tone and manner?" "She wasn't mocking him either?" She immediately addresses him with "kisama" in that same offensive tone again, that's not a nice start. Then she proceeds with saying that his not being used to the machine is "to a certain degree" understandable and that "if he understood it better, he would have" done things differently. That's not nice. At all.

And of course he's going to rant on the flaws of the machine. He's a test pilot. His entire career is based on finding faults in mechs so designers can fix them. Yet Yui seems to be blissfully ignorant of that fact, and instead orders him to change to adjust the machine. Dur? The entire reason he was brought in on this project was to be a test pilot. She just nuked his entire purpose here. And when he decided to do his job and gave feedback on the machine, rude as it was, what was the response? "Deal with it. We can handle it, so can you."

Er... no. Just... no. You don't ignore feedback of the test pilot you brought in for that purpose. And no, the flaws of the machine do not "make sense." Like Tk said a few posts back, if a pilot has to fight the machine as much as the enemy, the designers of the machine have done a bad job. Saying "but well, with MORE TRAINING! you can learn to overcome its flaws!" is not an argument. That's not even sidestepping the issue, it's outright ignoring it.

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Originally Posted by Enternal View Post
Just tell me. If a superior officer is asking you questions, is that how you respond to them? Rudely and acting rudely with your arms and flailing your arms about? While at the same time smirking and what not?
If said officer seems to be intent on being a thorn in my side, constantly harass me, ignore the very reason I was brought to this project in the first place, lie to me and being a racist on top of that?

I'd say merely being rude in return would be a mild reaction.

Bottomline: Is Yuuya being a rude prick? Yes. Yes he is. Does Yui up the ante in an aim to become an even bigger bitch? Yes. Yes she does.
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Old 2012-07-23, 17:36   Link #1348
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Bottomline: Is Yuuya being a rude prick? Yes. Yes he is. Does Yui up the ante in an aim to become an even bigger bitch? Yes. Yes she does.
That bolded part is the part I want to see the most. If you look back many pages, how many times did you see people admitting that Yuuya is a rude prick or an ass? Not many. You keep seeing "bitch" here and "bitch" there but not much about Yuuya.

Anyways in terms of Yui's response, it was still started by Yuuya:
Spoiler:

If he had responsed in a respectful manner to Yui to her questions, would you think she have said such racist crap to him? His actions offended her greatly, in tern, she offended him back greatly.

If he had also spoke about the Fubuki's weakness with a more respectful tone, would the same thing have happened again? What he was implying while smirking was: "The TSF that were developed by the Japanese is a piece of Junk". We wasn't ranting about it in a way that is meant to help the development but ranting in a way to insult Yui. Which is why they did a closeup of his smirk. Yui caught that smirk which results in more problems between the two.

That's why I will say again but both of them needs to get slapped by tuna.

Also his friend was questioning about why he did not punch her not because he is a brash guy.

In terms of the Asian thing, I never said anything about it to use for Yui. All I'm trying to say was explaining Yuuya's problem regarding his identity. So nothing else to add there.
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Old 2012-07-23, 17:40   Link #1349
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But I agree with DezoPenguin. Both needs to be slapped with a tuna. I'm just tired of seeing a one side bash of Yui here when it's obvious Yuuya have his own share in the problem.
Nah, get the Russian chick (Cryska) to come over and deal with both of them. We need to see more of her and Inia. Save the tuna.
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Old 2012-07-23, 17:41   Link #1350
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Nah, get the Russian chick (Cryska) to come over and deal with both of them. We need to see more of her and Inia. Save the tuna.
I don't know why but that sounds hot... oh wait...
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Old 2012-07-23, 17:41   Link #1351
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I think that Yuuya actually has a legitimate complaint against Yui whenever she brought up the "race card" into her evaluation of Yuuya. Being a superior officer does not giver Yui the freedom call Yuuya an "embarrassment to the Japanese race". Yui isn't taking into consideration into Yuuya's background even though she has his files and knows that he was born in America, raised in America, and that his Japanese father left him at an early age.

And people keep saying that Yuuya is disrespecting Yui, but I really don't see it. By the end of episode 3 Yuuya says in a sarcastic tone about his piloting proficiency and interrupted jab at Japan's TSF. It wasn't specifically direct at Yui, but more about Japan in general, again not sure how that is disrespecting a superior officer or to Yui specifically.
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Old 2012-07-23, 17:47   Link #1352
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I don't know why but that sounds hot... oh wait...
See... we need to see more of those Russians. All the "fun" fanservice is on their side of the training camp. On our side we just have arguements about pricks, bitches, racism... We need those girls back.
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Old 2012-07-23, 17:47   Link #1353
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I think that Yuuya actually has a legitimate complaint against Yui whenever she brought up the "race card" into her evaluation of Yuuya. Being a superior officer does not giver Yui the freedom call Yuuya an "embarrassment to the Japanese race". Yui isn't taking into consideration into Yuuya's background even though she has his files and knows that he was born in America, raised in America, and that his Japanese father left him at an early age.

And people keep saying that Yuuya is disrespecting Yui, but I really don't see it. By the end of episode 3 Yuuya says in a sarcastic tone about his piloting proficiency and interrupted jab at Japan's TSF. It wasn't specifically direct at Yui, but more about Japan in general, again not sure how that is disrespecting a superior officer or to Yui specifically.
What caused her to bring up the "race card" in the first place? His horrible attitude towards her. You don't see how he's disrespecting her? Just look at how he acts when he answers her questions. When you answer to your superior officer, you shouldn't smirk, answer sarcastically, flail your arms and move your body in that way. It's plain rude. And he does over and over again. Yui's reaction? Her racist comments -> Yuuya gets mad -> More fun ensues.

Also I'm sure she already took into account of his records. It's just they will need him to test Shiranui later on, a Japanese TSF. Since it's not ready, in the meantime, practice using the Fubuki, a Japanese practice unit. It's so that he could get used to piloting a Japanese unit I assume. Instead he's like, "Have you look at my records?" "Why am I piloting such a thing?!" and in the end he could not pilot the unit very well either.

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See... we need to see more of those Russians. All the "fun" fanservice is on their side of the training camp. On our side we just have arguements about pricks, bitches, racism... We need those girls back.
No kidding. We need those crazy girls back. I want this whole Yuuya vs Yui thing resolve soon so we can have more fun afterwards with those two joining in more hehe.
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Old 2012-07-23, 17:50   Link #1354
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So you are saying it is okay for Yui to act like a racist if someone is being a jerk?
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Old 2012-07-23, 17:52   Link #1355
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So you are saying it is okay for Yui to act like a racist if someone is being a jerk?
Isn't that why I agree that both of them needs to be slapped by tunas? Or actually Cryska should get involve now?

Also Yuuya isn't being a jerk once or twice. He's being a jerk over and over and over again to who? His superior officer. Sure she could have handle it better but... he's not helping. And oh, he's not being a jerk. He's being a rude ass prick. And she's being a bitch.
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Old 2012-07-23, 17:53   Link #1356
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So you are saying it is okay for Yui to act like a racist if someone is being a jerk?
I don't think she would make those comments if he wasn't disrespectful to begin with.
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Old 2012-07-23, 17:54   Link #1357
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S
And of course he's going to rant on the flaws of the machine. He's a test pilot. His entire career is based on finding faults in mechs so designers can fix them. Yet Yui seems to be blissfully ignorant of that fact, and instead orders him to change to adjust the machine. Dur? The entire reason he was brought in on this project was to be a test pilot. She just nuked his entire purpose here. And when he decided to do his job and gave feedback on the machine, rude as it was, what was the response? "Deal with it. We can handle it, so can you."

Er... no. Just... no. You don't ignore feedback of the test pilot you brought in for that purpose. And no, the flaws of the machine do not "make sense." Like Tk said a few posts back, if a pilot has to fight the machine as much as the enemy, the designers of the machine have done a bad job. Saying "but well, with MORE TRAINING! you can learn to overcome its flaws!" is not an argument. That's not even sidestepping the issue, it's outright ignoring it.
This might be a question of interpretation, but when I watched that scene, I didn't see Yuuya making reasonable comments as a test pilot about the mechanical qualities of the TSF, but Yuuya refusing to say "I'm not familiar enough with this control set-up to pilot this well," so he just went ahead to say the equipment is crap rather than admit there's anything he can't do. That is to say, the main problem he seemed to be having was the over-delicacy of the controls, but from what his friend was saying, that doesn't seem to be a "design flaw" but a deliberate choice by the Japanese TSF system designers. That is to say, ten or twenty years ago, the Japanese pilots were off fighting BETA and complaining, "Hey, the controls on this thing are too insensitive for me to make the quick, delicate movements I need to make to do what I want!" so their design wonks tinkered with the control set-up for the Imperial army so that their mecha would best suit the tactical fighting style of their troops.

But then again, this is why I want to see Yui try to fly an American TSF, to see if she can immediately grasp its control set-up. I'd anticipate her trying to dodge, not exerting enough force to make the TSF move, and getting hit, or trying to delicately dance around enemies and running smack into them. This isn't about pilot skill level or about which set-up is objectively superior, it's about two different militaries having completely different tactical paradigms and having equipment which they feel best suits them.

If you ask me, Yui's real problem here is that on some level she seems to be convinced that because Yuuya is half-Japanese, he should somehow be able to pick up on those differences quickly and fight in the tactical style of a Japanese Imperial Army pilot, that she's decided for whatever reason ("she's a racist bastard" springs to mind, but I don't think we're supposed to assume that about a lead heroine so I'll set it aside for now) that Yuuya "isn't Japanese enough" for his genetic heritage, ignoring the fact that there's no reason why he rationally would be.

Edit: Yeah, I'll third the motion. Let's have more Cryska and Inia screentime while Yuuya and Yui are getting their character development to be less jackassy (preferably away from each other, where they're both apparently fine).
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Old 2012-07-23, 17:54   Link #1358
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I don't think she would make those comments if he wasn't disrespectful to begin with.
Exactly. I should also say while she said racist comments out loud to him, he was being racist to her mentally. They sure fit with each other in a way.
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Old 2012-07-23, 17:58   Link #1359
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I think people are forgetting what happened in episode 3 between Yui and Yuuya, in their first interactions:

In epi. 3, its clear that Yuuya does not like Yui as soon as he notices that she is Japanese in the briefing. The next time they interact is after the 2v2 in the hallway, where Yui stops Yuuya. Yuuya is clearly upset with having to interact with Yui, but he puts on a smile and sarcastically asks "Did you enjoy seeing the latest in American combat manuverability, Lt.? I suppose the Empire's TSFs . . ." Yui cuts him off with "I'm disappointed, Ensign Bridges. To think I have to entrust the future of the Empire to someone like you [kisama] . . ."

I think it's clear that Yuuya was predisposed to dislike Yui because she is Japanese, but Yuuya was at least trying to be professional. Yui was entirely unprofessional in her comments to Yuuya (especially, as Keroko mentioned, using "kisama"). Once she dropped all pretense of being professional towards Yuuya, he more than happily did the same to Yui.
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Old 2012-07-23, 18:00   Link #1360
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Exactly. I should also say while she said racist comments out loud to him, he was being racist to her mentally. They sure fit with each other in a way.
They should just cool off in a room..... with a bed and I got to agree that the russian girl should be involved but why Cryscka only? isn't it Inia the jailbait is the source of problem for Yuuya that's why he ended up in prison cell.

Lock them all together and lets see what's happens next.
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