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Old 2012-07-23, 18:00   Link #1361
Elestia
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Originally Posted by Enternal View Post
Isn't that why I agree that both of them needs to be slapped by tunas? Or actually Cryska should get involve now?

Also Yuuya isn't being a jerk once or twice. He's being a jerk over and over and over again to who? His superior officer. Sure she could have handle it better but... he's not helping. And oh, he's not being a jerk. He's being a rude ass prick. And she's being a bitch.
I don't have a problem with Yuuya being a jerk, but I have a problem with Yui acting like a racist. At what level does a person actually resort to racism just because another person is being a jerk? It's a level beyond stupidity that I cannot fathom in any normal social situation.

Example:

White Guy: Dude, why are you being such a douche?
Black Guy: *sarcasm* Oh am I being a douche? I am so sorry! *sarcasm*
White Guy: God damn, N***ger, you better fix that attitude of yours.
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Old 2012-07-23, 18:05   Link #1362
orion
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Originally Posted by Enternal View Post
Isn't that why I agree that both of them needs to be slapped by tunas? Or actually Cryska should get involve now?
.
Yes. Cryska needs to get involved.

Cryska: You're both idiots.
*slugs Yui and then Yuuya*
Inia: Onee-chan, you don't need to be so cruel. You hurt Yuuya.
*runs over to comfort Yuuya. Yuuya blushes.*
Cryska: Sorry, but they deserved it.
Yui: What did you say?!
*Yui slugs Cryska.*
*Cat fight starts. Uniforms rip. More fanservice ensues. Viewers happy.*
Go Russia!
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Old 2012-07-23, 18:07   Link #1363
Enternal
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Originally Posted by Elestia View Post
I don't have a problem with Yuuya being a jerk, but I have a problem with Yui acting like a racist. At what level does a person actually resort to racism just because another person is being a jerk? It's a level beyond stupidity that I cannot fathom in any normal social situation.

Example:

White Guy: Dude, why are you being such a douche?
Black Guy: *sarcasm* Oh am I being a douche? I am so sorry! *sarcasm*
White Guy: God damn, N***ger, you better fix that attitude of yours.
You are correct in a sense. However there is another problem is that Yui sees him as a Japanese as well as an American. He however identifies himself as an American and have tried to "discard" his Japanese side. Hence those racist comments are racist because he's an American and she said such things to him as Japanese. However, to her it's not exactly racist because to her Yuuya is a fellow compatriot. See the problem? It's rather messy in a way since it involves, national pride, identity issues, and other messy crap. This is why MUV LUV have included a character like Yuuya who is half Japanese and half American yet he identifies with his American side and discard his other side. He then meet another person who is fully Japanese who sees him as Japanese, the side that he supposedly discarded. In a way, he think he have thrown away that side of him but in fact in still sticks to him. Kind of shows that you can't simply throw away part of you since it what makes you you.

I think this whole Yui vs Yuuya is a way to show how both comes into terms of their own identity and how they should perceive others of the same race but not the same identity (Yuuya identifies him as an American while Yui identifies herself as Japanese and see Yuuya as a Japanese when he in fact is an American who threw away his Japanese side because to him the Japanese supposedly suck yet to Yui the Japanese are good as well and blah blah blah blah). <- MESSY
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Old 2012-07-23, 18:13   Link #1364
Cosmic Eagle
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Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Yeah what a hostile guy tries to do his duty, gives up advantages to others to avoid fights, puts up with Yui's shit constantly and gets along with most people beside her. Such a rebel, so mean! Yeah surely it's not the fact Yui is a bigoted bitch that results in friction, na TOTALLY on Yuuya.

Let’s just count the blindingly unprofessional and dishonest aspects.

Spoiler for Yui is a Stupid Bitch:
And you make a massive wall of text that somehow is supposed to distract off from the fact that Yuuya is hostile towards her from the start? For what? I didn't say Yui is faultless....


It's more like loads of people here are wasting their time throwing one sided rants against what is a problem of character's personality

Also you realize me calling Yui a stereotypical samurai is not exactly a compliment?
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Old 2012-07-23, 18:13   Link #1365
LeoXiao
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Maybe Yui is ignorant of the fact that it's much easier to be an American despite having ancestry somewhere else (which is the case for all Americans who aren't of native blood), and so when she notices "hey, this guy is half-Japanese", her national pride is insulted by his lack of proper behavior. It is incorrect of her to think of it this way, but it is IMO more defensible than the "all things Japanese suck" attitude Yuuya has.

Last edited by LeoXiao; 2014-01-13 at 11:24.
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Old 2012-07-23, 18:14   Link #1366
orion
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Originally Posted by Enternal View Post
You are correct in a sense. However there is another problem is that Yui sees him as a Japanese as well as an American. He however identifies himself as an American and have tried to "discard" his Japanese side. Hence those racist comments are racist because he's an American and she said such things to him as Japanese. However, to her it's not exactly racist because to her Yuuya is a fellow compatriot. See the problem? It's rather messy in a way since it involves, national pride, identity issues, and other messy crap. This is why MUV LUV have included a character like Yuuya who is half Japanese and half American yet he identifies with his American side and discard his other side. He then meet another person who is fully Japanese who sees him as Japanese, the side that he supposedly discarded. In a way, he think he have thrown away that side of him but in fact in still sticks to him. Kind of shows that you can't simply throw away part of you since it what makes you you.

I think this whole Yui vs Yuuya is a way to show how both comes into terms of their own identity and how they should perceive others of the same race but not the same identity (Yuuya identifies him as an American while Yui identifies herself as Japanese and see Yuuya as a Japanese when he in fact is an American who threw away his Japanese side because to him the Japanese supposedly suck yet to Yui the Japanese are good as well and blah blah blah blah). <- MESSY
Actually, I think that he is trying to identify with the Caucasian side and negate the Japanese side due to his upbringing which did not strengthen his resolve to recognize the Japanese side. You can be an American and still recognize your Japanese heritage. Just like all the other ethnic groups who went thru the same problems here.

His problem lies in the fact he did not have any Japanese-American mentors or other family members to look up to. He did not learn to love his other heritage and to tell any discreditors to stfu.
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Old 2012-07-23, 18:24   Link #1367
Keroko
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Originally Posted by Enternal View Post
That bolded part is the part I want to see the most. If you look back many pages, how many times did you see people admitting that Yuuya is a rude prick or an ass? Not many. You keep seeing "bitch" here and "bitch" there but not much about Yuuya.

Anyways in terms of Yui's response, it was still started by Yuuya:
Spoiler:

If he had responsed in a respectful manner to Yui to her questions, would you think she have said such racist crap to him? His actions offended her greatly, in tern, she offended him back greatly.

If he had also spoke about the Fubuki's weakness with a more respectful tone, would the same thing have happened again? What he was implying while smirking was: "The TSF that were developed by the Japanese is a piece of Junk". We wasn't ranting about it in a way that is meant to help the development but ranting in a way to insult Yui. Which is why they did a closeup of his smirk. Yui caught that smirk which results in more problems between the two.

That's why I will say again but both of them needs to get slapped by tuna.

Also his friend was questioning about why he did not punch her not because he is a brash guy.

In terms of the Asian thing, I never said anything about it to use for Yui. All I'm trying to say was explaining Yuuya's problem regarding his identity. So nothing else to add there.
You know, it'd help if you A: Post the entire conversation and B: keep in mind the events of the previous episode. You will remember that this conversation was after Yui pretty much blew up the bridge of friendship between the two with the "you disappoint me" remark and in this conversation you left out the part where Yui assigns Yuuya a task at odds with the goals stated in his records without any explanation whatsoever while, again, addressing him aggressively with "kisama" again.

So, no, initial hostility is again from Yui's side.

As for nobody admitting Yuuya is a prick... Browsing back, pretty much everyone seems to agree that Yuuya is rude. It's just that Yui's bitchyness eclipses Yuuya's rudeness so much it slings of into goddamn orbit.
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Old 2012-07-23, 18:40   Link #1368
Enternal
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
You know, it'd help if you A: Post the entire conversation and B: keep in mind the events of the previous episode. You will remember that this conversation was after Yui pretty much blew up the bridge of friendship between the two with the "you disappoint me" remark and in this conversation you left out the part where Yui assigns Yuuya a task at odds with the goals stated in his records without any explanation whatsoever while, again, addressing him aggressively with "kisama" again.

So, no, initial hostility is again from Yui's side.

As for nobody admitting Yuuya is a prick... Browsing back, pretty much everyone seems to agree that Yuuya is rude. It's just that Yui's bitchyness eclipses Yuuya's rudeness so much it slings of into goddamn orbit.
Well the entire conversation was only a couple posts back. It's not like people are going to get lost.

Yui's bitchyness eclipses Yuuya's rudeness that much? Perhaps it is so if everyone exaggerates it to orbit and back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by orion View Post
Yes. Cryska needs to get involved.

Cryska: You're both idiots.
*slugs Yui and then Yuuya*
Inia: Onee-chan, you don't need to be so cruel. You hurt Yuuya.
*runs over to comfort Yuuya. Yuuya blushes.*
Cryska: Sorry, but they deserved it.
Yui: What did you say?!
*Yui slugs Cryska.*
*Cat fight starts. Uniforms rip. More fanservice ensues. Viewers happy.*
Go Russia!
Needs more Inia action!
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Last edited by Enternal; 2012-07-23 at 18:50.
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Old 2012-07-23, 18:49   Link #1369
Keroko
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Yui seems to be intent on being a thorn in Yuuya's side, constantly harasses him, speaks to him both very aggressively and condensing, ignores the very reason he was brought to this project in the first place, ignores him when he does his job anyway and is unable to keep racist comments to herself on top of that.

Yuuya is just rude. And only to someone who is persistently aggressive and condensing towards him. You'll notice he's very friendly with pretty much everyone else, even the weird girl he just meets in an alley.
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Old 2012-07-23, 18:50   Link #1370
jtstellar
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I swear just give those two some guns and let them settle it. Just waiting for someone to snap and start trying to kill the other. Two sides that are not going to easily see each others point of view.
that might not even be the point. in manga there's not even such thing as "Yui's point of view".. has anyone read the original novel? i am not sure which is closer to the original material. manga began right from the training and it seems as if the director of anime purposely added Yui's combat experience and these extra dialogues non-existent in the manga to make yuuya appear way more childish and asinine during conversations between the two, to what end? possibly to appeal to japanese audience by making Yui appear less repulsive

people commenting on this series seem to keep forgetting the director's part in this, whether he willingly diluted yuuya's maturity because he is american, to give the 'japanese point of view' favor. the director might have done it for commercial reasons, or it may be some way to display his patriotism. a childish way, if i may add, to twist other people's original story to fit your world view. certainly yuuya is way less childish in the manga, at least compared to the anime, in terms of his work ethic and the rate he complains.

i would say he complains half as much in the manga and comes across less as whining as he does in the anime. when he does complain, it is him asking why Yui hasn't implemented some of the changes he requested on his machine. he would occasionally throw in some scolding, like "is there some issue to japanese's technical capability? is it deficient in some way? if not, why have you not made the adjustments and re-balances i requested?" often followed by Yui's nonsensical, inflammatory, and childish responses. it's much closer to lines of professionalism when he complains, as opposed to the way he does in the anime, while Yui comes across as petty. this is why i am asking if anybody's read the most original story. is manga truer to the real yuuya, or is it the anime so far.

Last edited by jtstellar; 2012-07-23 at 19:09.
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Old 2012-07-23, 18:53   Link #1371
Enternal
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Yui seems to be intent on being a thorn in Yuuya's side, constantly harasses him, speaks to him both very aggressively and condensing, ignores the very reason he was brought to this project in the first place, ignores him when he does his job anyway and is unable to keep racist comments to herself on top of that.

Yuuya is just rude. And only to someone who is persistently aggressive and condensing towards him. You'll notice he's very friendly with pretty much everyone else, even the weird girl he just meets in an alley.
*pulls out a 60 lb Tuna and slugs Yuuya and Yui with it
"GET A ROOM YOU TWO!!"
"Oh! Take Cryska and Inia with you while you're at it"

You also forgot that Yui's Japanese so of course if anything, he's definitely going to be rude to her and not the others who have nothing to do with his sore spot. Also that weird girl? It's Inia heh.
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Old 2012-07-23, 18:54   Link #1372
novalysis
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Well... yes.

I'd expect that Shippers will ship Yuuya and Yui very hard.
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Old 2012-07-23, 18:55   Link #1373
orion
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Well... yes.

I'd expect that Shippers will ship Yuuya and Yui very hard.
Only because Cryska is too hot to handle. Adding Inia brings it to nuclear level.

Go Russia!
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Old 2012-07-23, 18:57   Link #1374
Enternal
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Only because Cryska is too hot to handle. Adding Inia brings it to nuclear level.

Go Russia!
But... wouldn't that make things more exciting? For some, risky things are very enticing.
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Old 2012-07-23, 19:01   Link #1375
orion
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But... wouldn't that make things more exciting? For some, risky things are very enticing.
This is why I'm rooting for Russia, the dark horses. The "safe choice" is to root for Yui.
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Old 2012-07-23, 19:01   Link #1376
Jmko
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Well... yes.

I'd expect that Shippers will ship Yuuya and Yui very hard.
The more tsun she is now, the more dere she will be later.
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Old 2012-07-23, 19:03   Link #1377
shadow1296
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yuuya probably would never have been rude to yui if it wasnt for that comment she said when they first met, is yuuya being a prick to her yes, is yui being a bitch to him hell yes, would he have been a prick to her if she wasnt a bitch to him first, no he wouldn't have
so yui started all this when you think about it
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Old 2012-07-23, 19:09   Link #1378
Enternal
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yuuya probably would never have been rude to yui if it wasnt for that comment she said when they first met, is yuuya being a prick to her yes, is yui being a bitch to him hell yes, would he have been a prick to her if she wasnt a bitch to him first, no he wouldn't have
so yui started all this when you think about it
True. Should he have continued his rudeness towards her then? He could have stopped it with his attitude and perhaps their relationship would have turn better. However, he took her bad initial comment and use that as a way to continue to be rude to her over and over again. In other words, he let the word of a superior officer gets to him and then then repeated offend her with his attitude. If that is the case, then he's no better than she is.
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Old 2012-07-23, 19:14   Link #1379
jtstellar
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So let see what happened during two scenes in this episode.

Yuuya: A practice unit?
Yui: Correct. Until the Shiranui is operational, you will be piloting a Fubuki Type 97 practice TSF.
*Yuuya looks displeased
Yuuya to himself: Did this women even looked at my records?
Yui: You look disatsified.
Yuuya: I have not been given enough information to be disatisfied.
Yui: Tell me, is your attitude related to the project?
Yuuya: No Liutenance (said in a somewhat rude manner).
Yui: Is the problem with me?
Yuuya: Not at all (said in a rude manner again. Just look at how he acts why answering her questions.)
Yui: Let me tell you something. Your unpleasant attitude is disruptive. If you don't have a reason for it. Fix it.
Yuuya: Is that an order Liutenance? Or is it merely an order to satisfy a personal desire.
Yui: Whichever you prefer. But fix it.
Yuuya: I will try but I can't promise you.
Yui: According to the records, you're a second-generation Japanese.
*Yuuya looks upset
Yui: As a fellow member of the same race, Your haughty attitude is upsetting and an embarassedment to the Japanese.
Yuuya to himself: How dare she...
Yui: Make sure you read the manual for the Fubuki and understand it.

His friend even told him that it's not a bad idea to start to understand the Japanese mindset to be able to pilot the TSF. However since he's currently having issues with his own Japanese side, he was not willing to learn how they think so that he could pilot the TSF efficiently unlike the other pilots on his team which is why he was slowing down the other pilots during the simulation battle. Which leads into:

Yui: You're not used to the machine so you could not keep your Fubuki under control. That's partly forgivable. However you could have slowly descent in circle instead of barging straight in. (She said it in a very nice tone and manner. She wasn't mocking him either. Just giving him advice).
Yuuya: I'm sorry Lieutenant but this TSF is a piece of junk. (He said in a cocky arrogant manner)
Yuuya: *goes on to explain the problem with the machine which all makes sense considering the different purpose of the machine.
Yui: However this machine is no harder to control than any of the other Imperial TSF.
Yuuya: I find that hard to believe. (shows his cocky smile again)
Yui: *goes on about how other soldiers can easily use it. That means you're less inept than an Imperial trainee. You lack talent.
*Yuuya was shocked and upset.

In the first scene, he clearly starts the fight with Yui which after repeatedly offending her with his behavior, she said what she said. He was clearly upset about that incident and then took the incident to heart and acted badly again during the second scene in the episode. The whole time Yui never really displayed much emotions but it was clear she's offended by Yuuya. It was also clear at how rude he was since that's what the episode was trying to show by zooming onto his smiling face and how he answered to Yui questions.

Just tell me. If a superior officer is asking you questions, is that how you respond to them? Rudely and acting rudely with your arms and flailing your arms about? While at the same time smirking and what not?
and maybe that's exactly how the director wants you to think and he twisted the original story to accomplish his purposes, and apparently, he has you. congrats. i don't dispute the fact that there is always a line somewhere when a behavior comes across as unacceptable even on a personal-relation basis, let alone professionalism, when you are at work. the point is, the director can shift that behavior anywhere he wants, depending on where the line should be drawn, and if he so wishes, he can always make Yuuya appear childish. therefore the point is not to be useful idiots, but find out what Yuuya is actually like in the most original writing/novel. otherwise you're just interpreting some japanese who wishes to make american appear more b*tchy in an argument between the two.

i mean people are finding an interpreted story by a japanese director targeting mainly japanese audience to see that an american in the story wages verbal warfare and ends up on the losing end every single time--how damn utterly surprising

Last edited by jtstellar; 2012-07-23 at 20:21.
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Old 2012-07-23, 19:17   Link #1380
Enternal
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and maybe that's exactly how the director wants you to think and he twisted the original story to accomplish his purposes, and apparently, he has you. congrats
Oh? Then he did his job. But since you saying that's not the original story, please go ahead and explain how it should be. I'm also rather curious since I don't know the manga version very well at least.

Spoiler:
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