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Old 2011-11-28, 22:12   Link #1
relentlessflame
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[PC] Koi to Senkyo to Chocolate (Love, Election, and Chocolate)

With the anime have been announced, this is a thread for game players who wish to discuss the game, or to discuss their expectations of the anime based on their game experiences.

Title: Koi to Senkyo to Chocolate (vndb)
Brand: Sprite (region-locked)
Genre: 18+ AVG
Themes: Romance, Drama, and High School Politics
Release Date: 2010-10-29

Premise and OP are at the top of the anime thread. Here's a nice review of the game.

WARNING ABOUT SPOILERS: This thread will contain spoilers about game events. While participants are encouraged to use spoiler tags if revealing specific end-game details or plot twists, this thread is intended primarily for people who have already played the game or are at least willing to be spoiled about it.




I'm going to start the discussion by continuing from the anime thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zexas View Post
It's one of those VN where I found some people had a beef with the "main" heroine. Seriously I don't like chisato route at all - I found mifuyu route to be far superior.
Spoiler for Like when:
Personally, I found the drama in the Mifuyu arc to be a bit too drawn out for my taste. It certainly provided a lot of "intensity", but a lot of it was Mifuyu being frustratingly silly and immature. And then, when they finally resolved that, they had to launch into even more drama, because that just wasn't enough. At the end of it, I sort of felt like I just wanted a break from all the tension. One of the characters in most need of an after story, in any case, just so we can really see Mifuyu be happy for an extended period of time. Certainly, as a character, I liked her well enough (and actually, I really liked all the characters in this game, and their routes to varying degrees, which is one of the reasons I have some hope for the anime, since it could re-work/combine some of the stories to take the best of each part).

While I have a few qualms with the Chisato route (particularly with the ending), she did reach lethal levels of cute and deredere in some parts. The most memorable scene in the game for me was the morning after she and Yuki became an official couple. If there were a good use for the "so moe I fucking died" meme, that would be it for me. I think they make a really good couple, which is it makes sense that her route is the "base route" for the game.
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Old 2011-11-29, 03:30   Link #2
Zexas
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I kind of agree about the drama being a bit too drawn. But to be fair so does all the other route.
Spoiler for LOL:



I might be a little bit bias here since I love some good old love triangle drama. The intensity in Mifuyu route is what I'm looking for. Mifuyu kind of want to get in realtionship with Yuuki but afraid that she might hurt chisato. Of course this kind of pattern is pretty much everywhere but instead of the usual - hard to get because I'm your girlfriend's best friend - She gives Yuuki a lot of hopes and in a sense she kind of outright betray chisato. Like when she kissed him outside school at night. (if my memory seves me right)


Chisato attitude in some other route clearly didn't help either. Though I have to admit that her dere-dere mode is as good as you said, I had suspicion on her that she might have mild yanderu tendency.


My second best would be Michiru. I especially love that scene where chisato said to Yuuki that it's all too late to take him from Michiru (with that music in the background playing).


Personally I hope the anime would combine Mifuyu and Chisato route together
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Old 2011-11-29, 04:08   Link #3
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Mifuyu as a character was good, but her route itself was too drama-loaded and packed with an aura of uneasiness roughly after Yuki's "love realization" has started. I must say that I have a clear dislike about this kind of love triangle as it has happened on her route.
Spoiler for Mifuyu:


If the anime wants to focus on waves of either love-drama or plot/election-drama, they should opt for Mifuyu or Isara (I mean there were moments where a temporary "You have failed" sign was looming in the air election-wise). I cannot comment on Michiru's because I didn't understand the main jist of her route that well.
Chisato's drama really only started after her jealousy on Isara "escalated" when she argued with Yuki and her past re-emerged to slap her. Of course on my first playthrough I didn't mind any bit of drama on Chisato's route, but retropective I can see flaws
/needs to refresh his memory
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Old 2012-07-19, 13:04   Link #4
hyl
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After watching 3 episodes (yes including the one that aired a few hours ago) i have a small idea what the anime is doing.
My initial reaction was that the anime felt rushed , because in the game there was some slight buildup to it before the club was in actual jeopardy of being disbanded. The idea of joining the election to prevent the disbanding of the club took place slightly later in the game.
Eventhough it was not a bad idea in retrospect for doing so, because the anime could start the election settings earlier and thus the anime watchers could easier get interested in this anime .

Spoiler for spoilers:


edit: eventhough "Non-chan" was promoted as a main heroine for the psp port, i doubt that the anime will do anything with that
Just like that the Mashiro iro Symphony anime didn't add anything from Sana's route on the psp

Last edited by hyl; 2012-07-19 at 13:40. Reason: I am already seeing some anime-only viewers lurking in this thread, so i will put my post in spoilers
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Old 2012-07-19, 19:39   Link #5
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Spoiler for Episode 1 + 2:


Generally, one of my main reasons to enojy the anime is because it's the closest to a VN-translation I can get and I don't feel like replaying the VN at the moment
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Old 2012-07-21, 12:58   Link #6
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i just watched the ep 3 of the anime and i wanted to ask if someone can explain me whats goin on betwin the theacer and oojima please? why oojima make food for her and they hugged at the end?
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Old 2012-07-21, 22:38   Link #7
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I'll go with two questions for now. Tag spoiler if it's warranted, though since I know just about nothing of the game, I doubt it would constitute it.

1. What's your opinions of the different order of the events from game and anime. The same text/event more or less happened regardless of different background/location, and while it seems interchangeable it does change things.
(Also I believe most events had Chisato with Oojima with almost every encounter hence his seeking of his destined one which obviously was nowhere near the priority of the anime's start)

2. Although Ayumu is a cameo, with the fact that she and two friends showed up at the first major scene of the anime, as well as right after Oojima was debating on running, as well as before Oojima went to eat dinner, doesn't it look like to the casual viewer that they have relevance? They show up more (often) than Ariake Mieru and Saga Reiji (wait did they even use his name? They said Garage but ...) in my opinion, and those two are supposed to be the most helpful side character classmates. Yes you can assume the Ayumu group isn't from the same school but then they run around the same city/area. (And if they were in the same school you'd think Oojima would ask them for their help).

Spoiler:


In other words, the main point is easy to follow but I find it easy to get confused. You have fewer main girls but you have a lot more characters.

On a random note since the general route is the same throughout, it's easy to implement the common route/plot. It's almost also possible to run components of every route literally.

On another random note despite some trends of "non-primary" girls winning, I would think for Koichoco it's easier to attempt that given that the struggle of that concept is within the base plot itself. (Meaning the protagonist is actually looking into having a girlfriend and actively shows interest).

Spoiler:


Then there's a bunch of tiny things but I won't inquire here.
Spoiler:
Most likely any questions I do have can be answered in subsequent episodes.

Is there any speculation on route order if it's implemented? Given the pace of the election that easily covers the bulk of the next few episodes, but I do wonder. (If there was a route order I'd randomly say the same order you see the girls right at the end of the opening). There was already evidence or statements of singular character focused episodes. And even if not, you'd expect that anyways other than the election stuff.

Spoiler:


Yeah, so I found it interesting how the anime set up ways to leave holes everywhere despite having a main focus. I felt this was much different than the game (despite the common election component being more or less the same). Introductions to characters (main girls specifically) are virtually identical too. But this anime contrast of Chisato where she isn't with Oojima and Oojima being with another girl is rather interesting. I don't think there's any PSP specific components here, but I wouldn't know.

Speaking of which, the Morishita-already-joined/met is a bit odd if a route or something new occurs to Oojima. It's like "ok I regularly hang out with this girl but she's still an enigma". Well, not that it matters.

I could have my facts totally wrong but I am curious to know. I didn't even mention about Hidaka. Ah too many things to look at. Seriously, this formula looks similar to Manglobe's Mashiro and then you get thrown a second curveball that Oojima wanting to look for love not with Chisato is already an in-game engine.

Last edited by amoirsp; 2012-07-21 at 23:18. Reason: EDIT: Additional Inquiry
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Old 2012-07-23, 17:17   Link #8
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Well I'm already ruling out Isara to even be a possible candidate for the anime ending due to the fact many of her scenes were already omitted. What concerns me though is how much screen time is she going to get? She is my favorite character after all.

Based on the little I've skimmed through here about Mifuyu, I doubt I will like her route (I've yet to play through it). I was already surprised on how immature she is... just learning more about her feels like I'd be forcing myself.
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Old 2012-07-23, 17:34   Link #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuffle View Post
Well I'm already ruling out Isara to even be a possible candidate for the anime ending due to the fact many of her scenes were already omitted. What concerns me though is how much screen time is she going to get? She is my favorite character after all.

Based on the little I've skimmed through here about Mifuyu, I doubt I will like her route (I've yet to play through it). I was already surprised on how immature she is... just learning more about her feels like I'd be forcing myself.
They could give some of Isara's story in the next episode when
Spoiler for spoiler:


But like what i have posted before, i don't think Isara stands a chance in the anime.
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Old 2012-07-23, 18:24   Link #10
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Really? I'm only finding it not an absolute rule out yet because while you guys say omission it felt to me more like a reorder of events. So I personally thought Isara's events were pushed to later as opposed to coinciding so that the flow of events remain.

It's true that an actual route/ending of Isara is unlikely, however I am fairly certain problems you see with the school/system that involve Isara are relevant. (Otherwise why bother with Oosawa scandal lol).

And yes I'm aware most, if not everything can pretty much singlehandedly be resolved by Satsuki which is why other character omitting levels other than Chisato is quite likely. Heck even Chisato's had lower allocation such as having Oojima directly introduce himself with Satsuki and Isara alone as opposed to with Chisato nearby or next to him (and Mifuyu too for Satsuki's meeting).

I guess I'm expecting more flashbacks, granted I generally don't like a large amount of flashbacks unless it's extremely relevant.

If I recall, in the game Oojima actually actively (or wanted to) find love aka a girlfriend, but the anime very vaguely implies this (like the start of episode 2 with the destined one comment in his room directed at Chisato). Though I guess having Oojima get particularly happy over meeting Satsuki and Isara are sufficient.

I recall the election is for the most part persistent through most of the game, and not like a minor early event (ex: Otoboku) where you get over 75% of the vote within the first three episodes (or early enough in the game) where winning was important but not particularly integral. Much different here in Koichoco where you either genuinely want to win or learn enough so you can still make a difference (since the chocolate club is like a completely irrelevant third party so to speak).

Speaking of which, the school has 6000 students right? Why wasn't there a mention of how big the school is? I'm not familiar with private high schools, but when other visual novel adaptations have like 700 (ex: Clannad), 6000 does look a LOT more. [Especially when the preliminaries require 10% votes hence 600 people which is no easy feat.]

I still think it's a reordering of events rather than omissions. But if I looked at in an omission viewpoint, yes I would agree it did look like a TON was omitted. I mean yes I can see how you want to leave Koichoco somewhat happy but um, there are components that aren't exactly happy happy.

Thanks for the inputs. After watching the end of episode 3 I got drastically interested in game events and the reordering or omission and wanting to know why for instance, or what could be implemented next.
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Old 2012-07-23, 19:22   Link #11
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The anime has so far mixed the beginning parts of most characters into the first three episodes: The encounter with Satsuki which lead to Yuuki's final decision in participating at the election, one scene of Michiru following him and Chisato when she went with him to talk with the other clubs. That leaves Isara and Mifuyu, whereas the latter has only a few scenes before it goes too deep into the drama-route.
Spoiler for Mifuyu:

I cannot remember if the scene where Yuuki cooked for Hazuki counts already as another snippet of Satsuki's route or happens also during the common one, but the sisters' argument counts likely towards it..

Corrections are welcome.

@election: The final stage of the student president elections was indeed an important part towards the end or 3/4 part of each route for at least Chisato, Mifuyu, Isara and Satsuki .
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Old 2012-07-23, 19:38   Link #12
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Didn't the anime skip most parts of Mifuyu supporting Chisato and Yuuki (and commenting about how dense Yuuki was)?

As for the Hazuki scene, it was happened in the first 15 minutes of the game
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Old 2012-07-24, 01:04   Link #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyl View Post
Didn't the anime skip most parts of Mifuyu supporting Chisato and Yuuki (and commenting about how dense Yuuki was)?

As for the Hazuki scene, it was happened in the first 15 minutes of the game
I can't read anything from the trial but didn't Oojima have a private encounter with Hazuki before that scene? Like he was shopping or something and bumped into her or something. [Then there's the earlier Isara encounters which you guys mentioned were omitted (but maybe it shows up episode 4?)]

Now the anime doesn't need to be exact to the game, but reordering events isn't exactly chronological. The current omissions seem okay (like Michiru's welcome party) to be more concise or having less food club idle time and getting right into the manifesto.

Since the PSP game isn't out I can't really ask if there is anything specific to it, but from what I've seen there isn't much deviation from the game either. The most important points of the game are featured in the anime, I suppose.

And yeah I should realize a girl is more likely to win if she has more screen time (Satsuki) than usual rather than less (Isara). However one can argue that just about everything that was already shown is all common route material.

Well, based on VN adaptation trends, route specific content doesn't usually manifest until say an episode 5, 6, or 7. By 8 or 9 you're guaranteed something.

And hyl you're right, as far as omissions go, ironically other than Satsuki (whose scenes we already saw actually appear in other locations), even Chisato specific scenes were done less. There's less Chisato room penetration. There's less morning conversations (particularly due to animating Oojima walking around alone for a good portion of episode 2). Actually this I find interesting. While a Chisato end is no guarantee nor is it out of the question, there is indication it could go either or and it's staying neutral currently.

I personally did find it weird that not much about the distaste of chocolate was emphasized, or what Oojima actually wants normally (love/girlfriend) because the student council running is more like "event triggering" that even he initially didn't want (as opposed to a nice/destined girlfriend/love which he clearly wouldn't mind).

The other interesting contrast is having "daily characters" (like the club members hanging around each other) not knowing too much about one another (such as Chisato not knowing what Oojima is doing, or the Shinonome sister fact, or other things). Since all the daily club stuff which is normally present in the game was totally omitted and fast forwarded, I felt like the two "monkeys" (who I don't recall being called monkeys in the anime at all) didn't even have their named mentioned for the most part. [You knew everyone's names from the club members introducing themselves to Michiru but since you didn't have the Michiru welcome party, you didn't even have character introductions!]

I guess it's good and bad. You minimize any effect of a drag out by keeping the main interesting points and plot momentum but enough holes to be curious about backstory and what will happen next.

If I recall though, Koichoco's greatest strength was in its watercolor drawing, as opposed to its writing. Seems an acceptable level from what I read on reviews, but far from perfect or ideal. (Lol or Chisato being required to be finished first on the first playthrough).

I find this very interesting as while the game pointed out Oojima dense effects, in this case he looks proactive. (Though really the dense effect is towards Chisato but then you can integrate the childhood friend effect or them as a "team" or "pair" ... which the anime didn't really mention either.) In fact most scenes you see are Chisato NOT with Oojima (or not seeing the same thing like how Oojima sees a propeller and mask).

Well, I expect the cooking thing to occur. Funny, you'd have Isara cookies which are salty and then you have Chisato cooking where you know that's her only major weakpoint. I'm not sure what order goes what but um yeah I think the Isara cookies were first.

Sure interested as to what will come next. Can't deviate too far into a route or it'll sway too far from the base plot but who knows.
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Old 2012-07-24, 04:08   Link #14
hyl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amoirsp View Post

Well, based on VN adaptation trends, route specific content doesn't usually manifest until say an episode 5, 6, or 7. By 8 or 9 you're guaranteed something.
You mean aside from Satsuki's bad relationship with Hazuki, which is already shown so early. I don't think Satsuki appeared that much before the actual elections, so the anime has to compensate it somehow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amoirsp View Post
I personally did find it weird that not much about the distaste of chocolate was emphasized, or what Oojima actually wants normally (love/girlfriend) because the student council running is more like "event triggering" that even he initially didn't want (as opposed to a nice/destined girlfriend/love which he clearly wouldn't mind).
Spoiler for spoiler:


So in matter of fact, i don't think Chisato had that much less screentime compared to the VN, but some of her hints were more subtile in the anime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amoirsp View Post
If I recall though, Koichoco's greatest strength was in its watercolor drawing, as opposed to its writing. Seems an acceptable level from what I read on reviews, but far from perfect or ideal. (Lol or Chisato being required to be finished first on the first playthrough).
I was actually more interested in the politics than the art when i first played it a few years ago. I actually didn't play this game when it first came (i was busy with kisaragi gold star ) out but after i have heard that it was a drama ridden story surrounding politics, i got more interested.
I didn't mind a forced playing order, because Chisato's route was pretty important and like Relentlessflame has posted a few years ago it was the "base route" of the game.
Enforced playing orders in general (like Hatsuyuki Sakura or Fate/Stay night) are not bad if it's done well, but that is just my opinion

Quote:
Originally Posted by amoirsp View Post
In fact most scenes you see are Chisato NOT with Oojima (or not seeing the same thing like how Oojima sees a propeller and mask).
Reji and Moheji's scenes were completely kept intact though in episode 1, although the order of events were a little shuffled

Last edited by hyl; 2012-07-24 at 04:37. Reason: rephrasing
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Old 2012-07-24, 04:38   Link #15
Mahou
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I agree. If done correctly a forced playing order isn't really bad except for the personal bias of "OMG I wanna play route x first!!!" .
I liked Chisato's route and she remained my fav. girl after I completed the VN. In contrast to Michiru where I had sadly as good as no idea what the route was about. The very few snippets I grasped, didn't help Maybe it's time for another shot.
Spoiler for Chisato + other routes:


And yes, the special scene in hyl's spoiler happens after you are locked into Chisato's route.
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Old 2012-07-24, 09:34   Link #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyl View Post
You mean aside from Satsuki's bad relationship with Hazuki, which is already shown so early. I don't think Satsuki appeared that much before the actual elections, so the anime has to compensate it somehow.


I was actually more interested in the politics than the art when i first played it a few years ago. I actually didn't play this game when it first came (i was busy with kisaragi gold star ) out but after i have heard that it was a drama ridden story surrounding politics, i got more interested.
I didn't mind a forced playing order, because Chisato's route was pretty important and like Relentlessflame has posted a few years ago it was the "base route" of the game.
Enforced playing orders in general (like Hatsuyuki Sakura or Fate/Stay night) are not bad if it's done well, but that is just my opinion
Satsuki does appear in the common route if you are headed for her or Mifuyu's route. All the anime did was change the location on where those events happen. Bike chain on school grounds instead of street. Horse race talk in school hallway instead at bridge(?) area. I'm going through Satsuki's route right now so I can confirm this. However, iirc, the conversation between Hadzuki and Satsuki happens near the beginning of her route.

As for the politics. I was on the edge of my seat for Isara's version. There was a lot of tension and drama which really had me worried on how things would end up. I'm not sure if any other version can compare to it imo, but I have yet to go through every route so this opinion could be premature.

Btw.. does anyone think that Chisato's personality has been toned down in the anime to be more likeable? The fact that she let Oojima walk around all morning by himself and not questioning him about as strongly as she would in the VN has made me wonder how they are going to handle her story in the adaption.
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Old 2012-07-24, 10:17   Link #17
hyl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuffle View Post
Btw.. does anyone think that Chisato's personality has been toned down in the anime to be more likeable? The fact that she let Oojima walk around all morning by himself and not questioning him about as strongly as she would in the VN has made me wonder how they are going to handle her story in the adaption.
I am not sure if i mentioned it somewhere before, but that's what i think that the reason was for not including Chisato several times together with Yuuki when he met other girls like Isara and Satsuki. Seeing how easily prone to jealousy Chisato was in the VN. Thus making her more likeabe in the anime version untill we get to a character specific route
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Old 2012-07-26, 12:41   Link #18
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Well the only thing that wasn't from the common route in this week's episode was the inclusion of the beginning of Isara's route with her being bullied (and it even looks more terrifying than i would have imagined, because you never actually saw the bullying in the game aside from the guys who said that Isara stinked).
And a small advancement into Satsuki's route (including her dealing with the members of the air sumo club).

Michiru's stalking from last week wasn't explored further this week. So i don't think we get any advancement in her story unless we get to the part with the harmonica
Spoiler for spoiler:


So far, the anime has small bits in it from every route except Mifuyu's. Which is not strange because the events that started her route started later.
The anime mostly seems to favor Satsuki though.

edit: i have noticed that the pacing of this episode has slowed down in comparison with the previous 3 episodes.

Last edited by hyl; 2012-07-26 at 13:24. Reason: removed some stuff
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Old 2012-07-26, 15:04   Link #19
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sorry to ask again but is really bugging me, can someone explain what's goin on whit oojima and the teacher please? (in ep 3)

sorry for bad english
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Old 2012-07-26, 16:06   Link #20
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Eventhough that event was seen in the common route, the reason for it was only explained in the Satsuki route.
My memories of her route is a little fuzzy but from what i still remember, it had something to do with that it started that at one time Yuuki got kissed by Hazuki (not sure if she was drunk or not). I think that this kiss was the start that caused them to have somewhat feelings for eachother (so much that Hazuki even confessed to him in Satsuki's route).

I am pretty sure that others can fill in the rest of the details , but i will reread Satsuki's story later today (i am still busy with a trial version of a new game now) for a more definite answer
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