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Old 2012-07-18, 06:55   Link #41
MartianMage
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyl View Post
Minor presence? Tougeki is the American equivelant of the American EVO (eventhough it's much bigger).
Define your own definition of cult status? Major fighting games in the USA like even Marvel vs Capcom 3 or Mortal Kombat are "cult status" games in japan, because it's hardly played at tourament level.
Likewise vice versa is also true, games like Melty blood and guilty gear are not played much in the USA while it was played alot in many japanese tournaments like A-cho. Heck, even blazblue can be considered to be a cult status game in the USA seeing that it was not even included in EVO this year.
One with a small following obviously. And you basically answered yourself in your post. MVC is also played in Japan surely not as much as SF but it is being played and also appears in tourneys and yes it is a cult hit in japan. So what makes SS being in a tourney any different? The fact that it only appeared for 2 years show how minor the support is for the game.

Quote:
What are you een talking about? 真説サムライスピリッツ武士道列伝 -ドラマCD was mainly about her, but the other drama was not entirely about her. Of course she is going to be popular and prominent, because she was one of the 2 female characters of the original first game (and the only recurring one in almost every game). She is like the Chun Li of Samurai spirits in that regard, but she acts more like a Mascot than Chun Li.
Now you're just writing it off as "she's female of course she is popular" :-/

Quote:
BRS was incidental, it's not like every other random popular MAD or AMV character have become popular enough to get it's own series. Unless you can name me some more examples.
Of course not but the fact of the matter is character design can spawn that much. Can you say the same for all plain looking characters who do great things in their unknown series?

Quote:
Doesn't this mean that your main reason for it was not primary the character design? You are contradicting your own post that started this discussion
... Kind of amusing how I predicted this kind of reply... It's not like I am making some sort of trap but hey since you already posted it...

My reason for watching Madoka Magica does not have any relevance in this subject nor does it contradict my initial post. Like I said I went into the show completely blind... No promos no commercials and whatsoever the only thing I know is that it is made by Shaft and is obviously a magical girl show. Tell me how does this contradict my initial post? What are you going to say if I did see it's commercials and I went into it because I liked the designs? It seems to me you are trying to make an argument out of anything. :-/

Quote:
That's like asking why Marvel and DC redesigned thor, Iron Man, green lantern, spiderman,
batman or many other characters over the years.
The answer is like C.A. has already pointed out: appeal.
Your audience and times have changed, so of course you have to adjust it to their current
tastes.
This pretty much closes the argument.

Even in written works a character's outside appearance is always established first the moment that character is available for scrutiny before delving any further. It does not go the other way around.
__________________
Homura: Die monster! You don't belong in this world!
Kyubey: It was not by my hand that I am once again given flesh. I was called here by humans who wish to pay me tribute.
Homura: Tribute? You steal girls's souls, and make them your slaves!
Kyubey: Perhaps the same could be said of all religions.
Homura: Your words are as empty as your soul! Lolis ill-needs a savior such as you!
Kyubey: What is a loli? A miserable little pile of moe! But enough talk...have at you!

Last edited by MartianMage; 2012-07-18 at 07:21.
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Old 2012-07-18, 08:10   Link #42
hyl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
One with a small following obviously. And you basically answered yourself in your post. MVC is also played in Japan surely not as much as SF but it is being played and also appears in tourneys and yes it is a cult hit in japan. So what makes SS being in a tourney any different? The fact that it only appeared for 2 years show how minor the support is for the game.
No, i didn't answer my own question. MvC3 is huge worldwide except in japan and there was an incident about it a few months ago.
Kusoru who flew all the way from Japan won earlier this year UMvC3 evo 2012 with his obsecure team of Rocket Raccoon, Frank West and Viewtifull Joe.
After winning the tournament he said that he probably won't be back the next time and there was a huge commotion about what he said in the in American fighting game community saying how bad his attitude was based on those few words (a few days later Kusoru explained why he won't be back though), seeing that japan didn't even take the game seriously at all (it was only played in minor tournaments and even in the local tournaments it's not that common) and yet some "random japanese person" won a major American tournament.

As for samurai spirits, Samurai Spirits Zero Special was still played in last and this years Ura Tougeki and Acho and many other tournaments as well. So stop saying things that you have obviously no clue about.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
Now you're just writing it off as "she's female of course she is popular" :-/
Isn't that the case here? It's the same reason why Chun Li was popular when street fighter 2 (1992) was released, you could actually play as a female character who could kick ass instead of being a damsell in distress. Or the popularity of Lara Croft eventhough the first tomb raider was pretty mediocre.
In 1993 (samurai spirits) it was still not that common to see cute female characters in video games that you could actually control and fight with.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
Of course not but the fact of the matter is character design can spawn that much. Can you say the same for all plain looking characters who do great things in their unknown series?
Stop trying to change the subject to plain looking characters, because we are still talking about how incidental black rock shooter was. You were the one saying that Black Rock shooter was such a good example of a character design made it into animes and OAV's. Yet all of the other huge MAD and AMV icons didn't get any animes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
... Kind of amusing how I predicted this kind of reply... It's not like I am making some sort of trap but hey since you already posted it...

My reason for watching Madoka Magica does not have any relevance in this subject nor does it contradict my initial post. Like I said I went into the show completely blind... No promos no commercials and whatsoever the only thing I know is that it is made by Shaft and is obviously a magical girl show. Tell me how does this contradict my initial post? What are you going to say if I did see it's commercials and I went into it because I liked the designs? It seems to me you are trying to make an argument out of anything. :-/
Nice contradiction in the same post
You were not going blind into Madoka, because you even said it yourself that you started it because it was made by Shaft. Which is loyalty to a certain studio and that is also a possible factor for watching a show.Thus making your primary reason of watching Madoka in the first place not the character design but rather studio loyalty.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
Even in written works a character's outside appearance is always established first the moment that character is available for scrutiny before delving any further. It does not go the other way around.
You have no idea how much and how many times these comic book characters have changed (both appearances and personality) over the last half century.
This had nothing to do with a first design of outside appearance, seeing that also a huge amount of characters didn't change at all (aside from the drawing style, because it was obviously done by a different artist).
Same designs were changed over the years, for reasons like for example the original super hero left or went missing in action (or dying, but in some cases they ended up being alive or were revived later on. So i rather call it missing in action) and a new one who took the same name replaced him/her or the comic series were canned at some point and rebooted later on.
Those redesigns took into account the current trends and other factors of that time.

edit: i didn't notice that you are also talking about written works as well. In the case of written stories, it's even more important to establish how the characters act and behave. Like for example, my first impression of sherlock Holmes was that he is an excellent observer and deducer rather than how his appearance was discribed. His appearance does supplement his sometimes odd behavior but it's not the most important thing about him.

Last edited by hyl; 2012-07-18 at 08:40.
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Old 2012-07-18, 09:03   Link #43
MartianMage
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyl View Post
No, i didn't answer my own question. MvC3 is huge worldwide except in japan and there was an incident about it a few months ago.
Kusoru who flew all the way from Japan won earlier this year UMvC3 evo 2012 with his obsecure team of Rocket Raccoon, Frank West and Viewtifull Joe.
After winning the tournament he said that he probably won't be back the next time and there was a huge commotion about in the in American fighting game community saying how bad his attitude seeing that japan didn't even take the game seriously at all (it's only played in minor tournaments and even in the local tournaments it's not that common).

As for samurai spirits, Samurai Spirits Zero Special was still played in last and this years Ura Tougeki. So stop saying things that you have obviously no clue about.
Ura Tougeki... and you are arguing that it is not a cult hit? :-/

Quote:
Isn't that the case here? It's the same reason why Chun Li was popular when street fighter 2 (1992) was released, you could actually play as a female character who could kick ass instead of being a damsell in distress. Or the popularity of Lara Croft eventhough the first tomb raider was pretty mediocre.
In 1993 (samurai spirits) it was still not that common to see cute female characters in video games that you could actually control and fight with.
Yeah cause every female character in their own games got popular right? Their character design has absolutely nothing to do with it...

Quote:
Stop trying to change the subject to plain looking characters, because we are still talking about how incidental black rock shooter was. You were the one saying that Black Rock shooter was such a good example of a character design made it into animes and OAV's. Yet all of the other huge MAD and AMV icons didn't get any animes.
Change the subject? I already answered you and asked another question that is relevant in this argument. Unlike you who goes "you watched madoka magica because it is made by shaft(as if being animated by shaft makes the character)omg i am right"

Quote:
Nice contradiction even in the same post again.
You were not going blind into Madoka, because you even said it yourself that you started it because it was made by Shaft. Which is loyalty to a certain studio and that is also a possible factor for watching a show.Thus making your primary reason of watching Madoka in the first place not the character design but rather loyalty.
See? Starting an argument over anything now huh? It's funny really now you're adding production studio to your list of relevant "traits" to identify a character. Are you gonna start telling people now that it is impossible to go into a show blind the moment you learn the show's title?

Quote:
You have no idea how much and how many times these comic book characters have changed (both appearances and personality) over the last half century.
This had nothing to do with a first design of outside appearance, seeing that also a huge amount of characters didn't change at all (aside from the drawing style, because it was obviously done by a different artist).

As for written works it pretty obvious that you have to describe someone's appearance, otherwise you will not get someone's first impression.
Does it matter how many times they revamped designs? The fact of the matter is character designs are being changed to appeal. Personally I'm at loss why you are still arguing about this or do you need me to tell you that appeal leads to recognition?

You say it is pretty obvious but it looks to me you don't understand why the outside appearance is described first. Oh and did you know that first and primary are synonyms?

Tell me how can people recognize Madoka in a picture drawn by a fanartist? How can people recognize Madoka in a doujinshi acting like a perverted old man? I'm going to tell you now that being animated by Shaft does not have anything to do with it.
__________________
Homura: Die monster! You don't belong in this world!
Kyubey: It was not by my hand that I am once again given flesh. I was called here by humans who wish to pay me tribute.
Homura: Tribute? You steal girls's souls, and make them your slaves!
Kyubey: Perhaps the same could be said of all religions.
Homura: Your words are as empty as your soul! Lolis ill-needs a savior such as you!
Kyubey: What is a loli? A miserable little pile of moe! But enough talk...have at you!
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Old 2012-07-18, 09:43   Link #44
hyl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
Ura Tougeki... and you are arguing that it is not a cult hit? :-/
And i said to define your own definiton of cult hit. Because for all that matters every good animes are in the eyes of non otaku also just cult hits, seeing that we anime watchers are in the minority when looking at the global level.

As for Tougeki , it only uses recent games (just like Evo) and samurai spirits hasn't had a game the last few years. It's because it's such a popular franchise so that previous installments of that game are still played in tournaments.

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Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
Yeah cause every female character in their own games got popular right? Their character design has absolutely nothing to do with it...
So what does this have to do with your original statement that she was popular despite the game being an utter disappointment.
So far i haven't seen any actual proof of you claiming that Samurai spirits was a bad game and she became popular just because of her design. In fact if it weren't for the succes of the game, she probably wouldn't have become popular. That is what i am saying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
Change the subject? I already answered you and asked another question that is relevant in this argument. Unlike you who goes "you watched madoka magica because it is made by shaft(as if being animated by shaft makes the character)omg i am right"
And i already disproved your previous answer by saying that black rock shooter was merrely incidental. Yet you want to to find an excuse by saying let's go back of finding examples of "normal looking people" who also ae succesfull while it wasn't even the point of it here.

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Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
See? Starting an argument over anything now huh? It's funny really now you're adding production studio to your list of relevant "traits" to identify a character. Are you gonna start telling people now that it is impossible to go into a show blind the moment you learn the show's title?
My main argument here is hypocrisy. You said that character design is the primary reason for identifiable characters and shows, yet it wasn't the case for yourself.

As for loyality it is a trait. Some people watch animes because it's directed by their favorited director or if the anime has their favorite seiyuus in it. Having loyalty to a studio is the same as well. Your claim that you were going blind into Madoka was false because you were already expecting something already based on the fact that it was made by Shaft (thus implying that you were atleast impressed by their previous works).


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Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
Does it matter how many times they revamped designs? The fact of the matter is character designs are being changed to appeal. Personally I'm at loss why you are still arguing about this or do you need me to tell you that appeal leads to recognition?
Weren't you the one who started this with asking me why they redesigned Ryo Hayabusa? I was the one answering that is for appeal, but then you starting that outward appearance was established first and i disproved that by saying that lot's of super heroes still have the same costumes as 50 years ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
You say it is pretty obvious but it looks to me you don't understand why the outside appearance is described first. Oh and did you know that first and primary are synonyms?
First and primary are not always synomyms. It depends on the context.
For example my first reason for hating a show does not mean that it's the primary (most important)reason why i hate a show.
Also first impressions can be deceiving. Like the already used example of Madoka.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
Tell me how can people recognize Madoka in a picture drawn by a fanartist? How can people recognize Madoka in a doujinshi acting like a perverted old man? I'm going to tell you now that being animated by Shaft does not have anything to do with it.
And didn't i already establish that this topic was not just about character appearances on this post
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...5&postcount=33

As for fan creations, they can easily do anything out of context. Same people don't even consider that identifiable seeing how much the character differs from their original.
But that would be an entirely different discussion if i start about that.
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Old 2012-07-18, 10:23   Link #45
MartianMage
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Originally Posted by hyl View Post
And i said to define your own definiton of cult hit. Because for all that matters every good animes are in the eyes of non otaku also just cult hits, seeing that we anime watchers are in the minority when looking at the global level.

As for Tougeki , it only uses recent games (just like Evo) and samurai spirits hasn't made a a game the last few years. It's because it's such a popular franchise so that previous installments of that game are still played in tournaments.
Why do I need to repeat myself? And Tougeki does not play old games? Care to tell me why 3rd strike is still in there?

Quote:
So what does this have to do with your original statement that she was popular despite the game being an utter disappointment.
So far i haven't seen any actual proof of you claiming that Samurai spirits was a bad game and she became popular just because of her design. In fact if it weren't for the succes of the game, she probably wouldn't have become popular. That is what i am saying.
Sorry chap but SS is a cult hit. Ura tougeki :-/ You brought this to yourself really.

Quote:
And i already disproved your previous answer by saying that black rock shooter
was merrely incidental. Yet you want to to find an excuse by saying let's go back of finding examples of "normal looking people".
No, you did not disprove my point. I don't know why you keep on insisting that these secondary attributes did not matter when I never did say that.

Quote:
My main argument here is hypocrisy. You said that character design is the primary reason for identifiable characters and shows, yet it wasn't the case for yourself.
lol? Since when did picking up a show translated into identifiable characters? So I picked up a show blindly how is that relevant here?

Quote:
As for loyality it is a trait. Some people watch animes because it's directed by their favorited director or if the anime has their favorite seiyuus in it. Having loyalty to a studio is the same as well. Your claim that you were going blind into Madoka was false because you were already expecting something already based on the fact that it was made by Shaft (thus implying that you were atleast impressed by their previous works).
It is a trait by the watcher for the show. Do you need me to point out how laughable your argument is? Also since you're already going knee deep into this. I am telling you now. I have watched anime for 17 years. I have watched 9 Shaft shows 6 of which I have dropped. So much for loyalty huh?

Quote:
Weren't you the one who started this with asking me why they redesigned Ryo Hayabusa? I was the one answering that is for appeal, but then you starting that outward appearance was established first and i disproved that by syaing that lot's of super heores still have the same costumes as 50 years ago.
You were the one who brought Ryo into this. And no characters not being revamped for a long time does not disprove my point. Do you want me to ask you now why those other characters id not get revamped?

Quote:
First and primary are not always synomyms. It depends on the context.
My first reason for hating a show does not mean that it's the primary (most important)reason why i hate a show.
True it is based on context but you know it applies in this argument.

Quote:
And didn't i already establish that this topic was not just about character appearances on this post
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...5&postcount=33

As for fan creations, they can easily do anything out of context. Same people don't even consider that identifiable seeing how much the character differs from their original.
But that would be an entirely different discussion if i start about that.
And did I ever say that a character is only about appearances. You seem to keep on insisting that I did. You can easily go back a few pages to see you know.

I beg to differ but the fact of the matter is many doujinshis have the characters going OOC. It never stopped anyone from recognizing the characters.
__________________
Homura: Die monster! You don't belong in this world!
Kyubey: It was not by my hand that I am once again given flesh. I was called here by humans who wish to pay me tribute.
Homura: Tribute? You steal girls's souls, and make them your slaves!
Kyubey: Perhaps the same could be said of all religions.
Homura: Your words are as empty as your soul! Lolis ill-needs a savior such as you!
Kyubey: What is a loli? A miserable little pile of moe! But enough talk...have at you!
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Old 2012-07-18, 10:57   Link #46
Kaioshin Sama
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When it comes to characters I merely ask that their personality not clash with the animes goal for them and how other characters act around them. If a character is useless and weak-willed but everyone insists that they are to be relied on and that they have the ability to lead despite that obviously not being the case (i.e Shu from Guilty Crown) I typically don't find said character very likeable or easy to get into. Likewise if the character is just an insufferable jerk or sociopathic to everyone around them and are met with the other characters and plot bending over backwards to reward them and claim how great they are (Almost any NisoIsin female character) I also won't find said character very identifiable. I also just find certain character types like the main characters half-retarded ecchi best friend to be just truly loathsome, irritating and iredeemable as character types because it even makes the otherwise kind of likeable hero look like some kind of idiot for hanging out with and calling on them for support from time to time.

As for anime, that's far more subjective, but for me I tend to identify/appreciate certain genres like mecha/sci-fi/fantasy/drama over others like Comedy and Romance. That's pure preference though.
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Old 2012-07-18, 12:07   Link #47
hyl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
Why do I need to repeat myself? And Tougeki does not play old games? Care to tell me why 3rd strike is still in there?
Ever heard of the thrid strike HD remake. Of course i know they don't play that on the arcades, but it was remade last year so it sparked some interest again for tournaments. Just like that the Jojo HD remake (the one made by capcom, not the unreleased 3d fighting game) will likely get it in some tournaments later.

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Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
Sorry chap but SS is a cult hit. Ura tougeki :-/ You brought this to yourself really.
Ura tougeki does not always mean obscure but it rather uses "broken fighting games" (as in cheap). Like Soul Calibur 2 and 3 are hardly obescure in both the the Western or the Eastern countries.
It's the same as the American people played MvC2 tournaments in which infinites/loops and other things were available due to the bad design and it was allowed.
Also only the 4th game were played in those tournaments, because of it's balancement issues.

You deliberately neglicted the fact that there have been no new Samurai spirits released in the past few years , so of course it won't show up in many major tournaments.

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Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
No, you did not disprove my point. I don't know why you keep on insisting that these secondary attributes did not matter when I never did say that.
Yet, you can't prove your own point by using another example than BRS.

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Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
lol? Since when did picking up a show translated into identifiable characters? So I picked up a show blindly how is that relevant here?
So you are still trying to say that Madoka is primarily identifiable because of the character desgns and the entire story, grim atmosphere, Faust comparisons and many others were just secundary factors? I find it hard to believe that everyone will agree with you that people watched it mostly for the visuals.

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Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
It is a trait by the watcher for the show. Do you need me to point out how laughable your argument is? Also since you're already going knee deep into this. I am telling you now. I have watched anime for 17 years. I have watched 9 Shaft shows 6 of which I have dropped. So much for loyalty huh?
So? Isn't the point of this discussion talking about the traits what makes a show identifiable?
Also loyalty does not mean that you have to like everything. Fans of George Lucas, Steven Spielberg or Ridley Scott don't automatically love every film they have made. But based on their experiences, they might want to try (as in what you also did with Madoka or some people did with Ridley Scott's Prometheus ) some of their films.

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Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
You were the one who brought Ryo into this. And no characters not being revamped for a long time does not disprove my point. Do you want me to ask you now why those other characters id not get revamped?
yes, i originally brought him up in the first place as an example of character appearances that he does not look too different from ninja's. Yet you were the one reintroducing him in this discussion as a filler secundary discussion about changes over the time.

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Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
And did I ever say that a character is only about appearances. You seem to keep on insisting that I did. You can easily go back a few pages to see you know.
You emphasize on designs alot for someone who is saying that it's not only about appearances
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Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
Yes, they would especially for characters with outstanding designs. How do you think Nakoruru became popular whereas the game she came from was an utter disappointment?

Make a gallery composed of 100 pictures, put 2 pictures of necron, put 2 of okabe, and have people with no knowledge of them browse through them. More likely than not more people would inquire about Necron. Does it matter if fans found Necron to be redundant while Okabe is the main of a popular series?
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Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
Like I said, just make a gallery... insert pictures of plain guy who did great things in his series then insert pictures of let's say Erio Touwa too in that gallery. Show to people who have no knowledge of them and see which character would people inquire more about. It's a no brainer that more people will inquire about Erio.
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Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
Like I said it's not a counter. Please I know for a fact that there are tons of well designed characters out there that didn't become popular no need to point out the obvious. What part of "everything else is secondary" do you not understand? Just because character quirks, traits, and whatnot are only secondary does not mean they cannot make a character recognizable.

How do you even begin to apply your interpretation on BRS before the OVA and anime came out? I won't deny that I'm focusing on one aspect of what he mentioned but you know it's the only aspect you can even use on every character. Every character has it's own design be it written or drawn but not every character enjoys exposure and development.

Now let me ask you this: Why do you think Tecmo deemed it necessary to revamp Ryo's character design?
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Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
Of course not but the fact of the matter is character design can spawn that much. Can you say the same for all plain looking characters who do great things in their unknown series?

Even in written works a character's outside appearance is always established first the moment that character is available for scrutiny before delving any further. It does not go the other way around.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
Yeah cause every female character in their own games got popular right? Their character design has absolutely nothing to do with it...

Does it matter how many times they revamped designs? The fact of the matter is character designs are being changed to appeal. Personally I'm at loss why you are still arguing about this or do you need me to tell you that appeal leads to recognition?

You say it is pretty obvious but it looks to me you don't understand why the outside appearance is described first. Oh and did you know that first and primary are synonyms?

Tell me how can people recognize Madoka in a picture drawn by a fanartist? How can people recognize Madoka in a doujinshi acting like a perverted old man? I'm going to tell you now that being animated by Shaft does not have anything to do with it.

Last edited by hyl; 2012-07-18 at 12:19.
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Old 2012-07-18, 21:56   Link #48
MartianMage
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Originally Posted by hyl View Post
Ever heard of the thrid strike HD remake. Of course i know they don't play that on the arcades, but it was remade last year so it sparked some interest again for tournaments. Just like that the Jojo HD remake (the one made by capcom, not the unreleased 3d fighting game) will likely get it in some tournaments later.
Except that third strike has been pretty much present in all of them.

Quote:
Ura tougeki does not always mean obscure but it rather uses "broken fighting games" (as in cheap). Like Soul Calibur 2 and 3 are hardly obescure in both the the Western or the Eastern countries.
It's the same as the American people played MvC2 tournaments in which infinites/loops and other things were available due to the bad design and it was allowed.
Also only the 4th game were played in those tournaments, because of it's balancement issues.

You deliberately neglicted the fact that there have been no new Samurai spirits released in the past few years , so of course it won't show up in many major tournaments.
What do you think happens to broken games? I don't even know where you are trying to go with this. As if trying to reason out that it is broken rather than obscure makes any difference.

And again 3rd strike. When was the original third strike? When is the HD?

Quote:
Yet, you can't prove your own point by using another example than BRS.
Oh I can. I'll say this again. Make a gallery, put some pictures of BRS and Okabe in it, show it to people who have no knowledge of them and their series. Who do you think will most likely they will inquire about? Please answer this and tell me how it does not prove my point that character designs is the primary factor in making characters recognizable?

Quote:
So you are still trying to say that Madoka is primarily identifiable because of the character desgns and the entire story, grim atmosphere, Faust comparisons and many others were just secundary factors? I find it hard to believe that everyone will agree with you that people watched it mostly for the visuals.
And this is why your argument fails. How could even people know that Madoka had all that secondary attributes before the show even aired? Do you see how irrelevant this is to this topic?

Quote:
So? Isn't the point of this discussion talking about the traits what makes a show identifiable?
In your zeal to argue with me you are now changing the topic into "what makes a show identifiable" Do I need to point out what's wrong?

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Also loyalty does not mean that you have to like everything. Fans of George Lucas, Steven Spielberg or Ridley Scott don't automatically love every film they have made. But based on their experiences, they might want to try (as in what you also did with Madoka or some people did with Ridley Scott's Prometheus ) some of their films.
17 years of anime only 9 shaft shows. Why are you still insisting this loyalty stick? I picked up Hyouka because it is made by Kyoani. I am telling you now my track record with Kyoani is even worse. And again this is not even relevnt to th subject.

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yes, i originally brought him up in the first place as an example of character appearances that he does not look too different from ninja's. Yet you were the one reintroducing him in this discussion as a filler secundary discussion about changes over the time.
And am I wrong? Like I said, I don't even get why you are still arguing about this. You already said that it was obviously for appeal so why are still even arguing? Arguing for the sake of arguing? Like arguing that SS is broken rathen than obscure?

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You emphasize on designs alot for someone who is saying that it's not only about appearances
Good job on looking up my previous post. Now tell me where I said that only the character designs mattered. Obviously I emphasize on designs a lot considering what my first post is but did I ever say that the other factors did not count?
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Kyubey: It was not by my hand that I am once again given flesh. I was called here by humans who wish to pay me tribute.
Homura: Tribute? You steal girls's souls, and make them your slaves!
Kyubey: Perhaps the same could be said of all religions.
Homura: Your words are as empty as your soul! Lolis ill-needs a savior such as you!
Kyubey: What is a loli? A miserable little pile of moe! But enough talk...have at you!
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Old 2012-07-19, 04:41   Link #49
hyl
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Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
Except that third strike has been pretty much present in all of them.
Present in what in all of them what? Third strike wasn't an main event in SBO from 2009-2011.

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Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
What do you think happens to broken games? I don't even know where you are trying to go with this. As if trying to reason out that it is broken rather than obscure makes any difference.

And again 3rd strike. When was the original third strike? When is the HD?
Do you actually know what Ura Tougeki even is? I have the impression that you have no idea what the actual idea of that tournament is.

As for third strike, it was remade with hd graphics last year.. Seriously, atleast pretend to know what we are talking .

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Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
Oh I can. I'll say this again. Make a gallery, put some pictures of BRS and Okabe in it, show it to people who have no knowledge of them and their series. Who do you think will most likely they will inquire about? Please answer this and tell me how it does not prove my point that character designs is the primary factor in making characters recognizable?
Yet you still bloody think that character design itself is everything by using this "make a gallery" excuse over and over.
As for making a gallery, it 's doomed from the start. The fact is that your gallery suggestion is so stupidly vague that i can put everything in it and i can easily manipulate the results depending on what the contents of my gallery are and the audience that i am showing it to.
It makes no difference if i put BRS and Okabe in it if i fill the entire gallery with completely different things like monsters, comic book characters or real live people and show it to either small children ,teenage girls or the non asian, non caucasion couple in my street.


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Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
And this is why your argument fails. How could even people know that Madoka had all that secondary attributes before the show even aired? Do you see how irrelevant this is to this topic?
Doesn't have to. Some people didn't even watch madoka during it's airing but it was recommended by others.
Also there is probably a reason why the first 2 episode discussions had less than 40 replies while starting from episode 3 the amount of replies rose to over 300.
People who started watching it from the start had different expectations.

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Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
In your zeal to argue with me you are now changing the topic into "what makes a show identifiable" Do I need to point out what's wrong?
Earth to Martian mage: this topic is actually called "What Makes An Anime or Character(s) "Identifiable"?"
How am i changing the topic again? A show in this context was an anime show, if i also need to remind you of that as well.

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Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
17 years of anime only 9 shaft shows. Why are you still insisting this loyalty stick? I picked up Hyouka because it is made by Kyoani. I am telling you now my track record with Kyoani is even worse. And again this is not even relevnt to th subject.
Do i need to remind you of these quotes before you are sticking with the 17 years of anime excuse that you haven't brought up earlier.
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Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
And to answer your question, no, I did not watch PMMM based on character design. I never checked it's commercials to begin with. I simply checked it out because it is a Shaft show and I am glad I did.
Which suggested that you did not watch madoka for it's design thus making you a hypocrite for this
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Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
The number one factor would be the character design. Everything else is just secondary.
I don't care if you didn't initially watched madoka with any expectations, because you already admitted that design was not your primary reason to begin with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
And am I wrong? Like I said, I don't even get why you are still arguing about this. You already said that it was obviously for appeal so why are still even arguing? Arguing for the sake of arguing? Like arguing that SS is broken rathen than obscure?
Yet you haven't convined me on the fact that Ryo looks like a generic ninja to me. What is supposed to be different from him? He still wear the traditional ninja head band and dark colours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
Good job on looking up my previous post. Now tell me where I said that only the character designs mattered. Obviously I emphasize on designs a lot considering what my first post is but did I ever say that the other factors did not count?
If you can't understand what i am implying by quoting all of this: you haven't even bothered posting anything except character designs. In what part of all these posts that you have made have you said something about these "secundary"factors ?. All i have been reading was character design this, character design that and i haven't seen you post any other factors so far.
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Old 2012-07-19, 04:55   Link #50
Calca
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You two mind taking it to PM or at least cut down on the amount of space you're using?
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Old 2012-07-19, 05:19   Link #51
hyl
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Some of it are on topic though, seeing that we are mostly having a debate on character design being the most important factor for making an anime/character identifiable or not.

But yeah, it does seem like a whole wasted page.

On topic , the topic starter hasn't made any followup replies himself what he actually meant with identifiable.
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Old 2012-07-19, 07:44   Link #52
MartianMage
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Ok I'm going to make this short. I misread the topic title into "anime character or character" I will give you that... all this time I never debated about the show and all my arguments are based on a character only basis. With that I respectfully admit that it was my fault in this misunderstanding and I do apologize for it.

Edit: removed off topic content
__________________
Homura: Die monster! You don't belong in this world!
Kyubey: It was not by my hand that I am once again given flesh. I was called here by humans who wish to pay me tribute.
Homura: Tribute? You steal girls's souls, and make them your slaves!
Kyubey: Perhaps the same could be said of all religions.
Homura: Your words are as empty as your soul! Lolis ill-needs a savior such as you!
Kyubey: What is a loli? A miserable little pile of moe! But enough talk...have at you!

Last edited by MartianMage; 2012-07-19 at 08:10.
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Old 2012-07-21, 11:26   Link #53
brolyeuphyfusion
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it's simple really, it's the character's behavior, the appearance, and everything else together
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Old 2012-07-24, 13:49   Link #54
supermegasonic
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Join Date: Jul 2012
usually the MC is a loser, which is "Identifiable" to you.
simply put, anything that be thrown over to RL (emotions, sad events, etc) are what makes it identifiable to you.
also dreams. the kinds that you know will never happen to you, thats the kinda stuff that makes you root for the MC
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Old 2012-07-31, 20:33   Link #55
winterbaby
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I get interested by the characters appearence, the anime genre, the plot, anime style, supernatural power or beings, and how inappropriate it is. If the anime has cute main characters I would watch it. But if they are ugly like the main girl having short hair i wouldnt watch it. But under the cercumstances of Ouran high school host club I would still watch it.
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