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Old 2012-07-23, 07:12   Link #2141
Kaijo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Not sure why you'd even mention Erio and Caro, since they are part of the bureau. But if we are making a list of powerful people, here's one of the confirmed high-rank people aligned with the TSAB we've seen:

Zest
Quint
Megane
Lindy
Chrono
Fate
Arf
Nanoha
Yuuno
Vita
Signum
Shamal
Zafira
Erio
Caro
Teana
Subaru
Aria
Lotte
Ginga
Cinque
Dieci
Nove
Wendi

That's 24 people. That we know of. On one area of Mid alone. There's bound to be more on Mid, much less on other worlds out there, hell the navy is confirmed to claim most of the powerful mages, so out there in space there's going to be even more of them. And people Clyde and Letti are just a few examples of the unknowns in the TSAB, and we haven't even touched on the Belkan controlled regions yet. So yes, I'm not really buying that "100" number here. I might buy it if an ace was a title or the other that had little to do with raw power, but more with some other special requirement. Because in terms of raw power, the TSAB has it more than the tournament.

It's just that the bureau is really, really big, and thus has thousands of other people as well, people who aren't as powerful. So the powerful people always seem to be the minority because, well, they are.

Again, the difference lies in favor of the bureau here.
Erio and Caro participated in the training for the tournament, but it was unclear as to whether they would participate on their own world.

Anyway, we're talking mages here, so you can remove the cyborgs and familiars from your list. The topic we're discussing is naturally occurring "normal" mages that are fairly powerful. Yuuno is also technically a civilian collaborator, not part of the Bureau (and doesn't take part in combat). The 10 people I named, was mainly just to get a rough number of how many "normal" powerful mages there are taking place in this tournament, and thus how many overall.

Also note that this tournament is merely ages 10-19... so it is confined to a single age group vs. the large age range the Bureau would have. What about those highly skilled and under 10? Nanoha and Fate were both 9 at one time. What about those highly skilled over 19? Is there a tournament for the adults 20+? Remember my 30 strong kids number from before that might be on Mid-Childa alone? Those kids grow up, and so shall we double that number to count in the number of powerful adult mages and very young children on Mid-Childa alone? 60 per planet? Remember, the tournament is a very limited look at a limited slice of the pie.

Megane and Quint are also interesting, though... they participated in the tournament, too, and Megane doesn't mention whether they won. I think if they had, she might have said that. Given we know roughly how strong Quint was (greater than Ginga and Subaru), and if we presume Megane to be equally strong... then again we have the tournament showcasing that we have many more powerful mages than we were otherwise led to believe.
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Old 2012-07-23, 09:52   Link #2142
Keroko
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When did Erio and Caro participate in the training for the tournament? Last I checked we only saw them fight during the visit to Lutecia which was... well... a visit to Lutecia that happened to involve training. Many types of training. The mock battle was just a mock battle that used the tournament score system. Many of the other training exercises were TSAB exercises. And last time we heard an opinion of Erio and Caro joining, it was a resounding "It would be fun, but they aren't the type to do it."

Since we know nothing about the other age groups, involving them in this debate is going to lead to biased assumptions at best, so let's leave them out of it. If you really do wish to pursue this avenue, I'll start calculating TSAB personnel per city per world using what we've seen here as a basis, then we can compare.

And Megane and Quint actually raise another point: Who's to say the TSAB isn't paying attention to this tournament and use it to scout out potential recruits?
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Old 2012-07-23, 18:27   Link #2143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
When did Erio and Caro participate in the training for the tournament? Last I checked we only saw them fight during the visit to Lutecia which was... well... a visit to Lutecia that happened to involve training. Many types of training. The mock battle was just a mock battle that used the tournament score system. Many of the other training exercises were TSAB exercises. And last time we heard an opinion of Erio and Caro joining, it was a resounding "It would be fun, but they aren't the type to do it."

Since we know nothing about the other age groups, involving them in this debate is going to lead to biased assumptions at best, so let's leave them out of it. If you really do wish to pursue this avenue, I'll start calculating TSAB personnel per city per world using what we've seen here as a basis, then we can compare.

And Megane and Quint actually raise another point: Who's to say the TSAB isn't paying attention to this tournament and use it to scout out potential recruits?
Leaving Erio and Caro aside (and I was referring to the mock combat on Lu's world, but that is neither here nor there)...

Returning to the main point, which was my observation that Vivid seems to portray strong mages as more commonplace than we were once led to believe. It was mainly my own observation, and I gave my reasons why I feel the way I do. You may feel differently, but that is your own choice. Certainly, it is just as valid. I was merely extrapolating based upon the numbers that we do have.

Then again, another viewpoint is that not as many mages join the Bureau outright, preferring civilian life, or as a professional "athlete" in the tournament league, or working for various companies perhaps as security agents or researchers(Precia falling into the latter category).

Lastly, as far as TSAB scouting, my point was never about that. Certainly, I'd work under the assumption that they do keep an eye on the tournaments and try to recruit people (The Bureau needs YOU for universal peace!). But that wasn't part of my observational point.
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Old 2012-07-23, 19:12   Link #2144
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Ironically, as awesome as the girls participating in the tournament are, they seem to be AA-rank at best (and i'm talking about the big powerhouses like Einhart and Victoria) meaning they're more or less around Zafira's league powerwise.

Not necessarily a bad thing, tough. As we saw the forwards pulling lots of awesomeness during StrikerS while sporting B and lower ranks xD

Those girls may be powerfull but they're nowhere close to the level of the threats faced by the heroes. Veyron alone could slaughter them all xDU
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Old 2012-07-23, 20:44   Link #2145
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What, you mean the guy who was powers that specifically neuter anything a mage can do would kill a bunch of mages?

That's amazing.
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Old 2012-07-23, 22:09   Link #2146
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Lol, fine, Tre and Sette could do the same xDU
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Old 2012-07-23, 23:43   Link #2147
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That's 'cause Tre is badass.
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Old 2012-07-23, 23:56   Link #2148
Akiyoshi
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Being Badass hardly have something to do with the results xD

Tre is and S+ Rank-like Combat Cyborg which is flight capable, have enhaced Strenght and probably is like 5 times faster than Micaiah. People on the league of the Aces/Wolks can deal with her but the girls at the DSAA tournament are hopelessly outmatched xDU
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Old 2012-07-24, 03:56   Link #2149
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Quote:
girls participating in the tournament are, they seem to be AA-rank at best (and i'm talking about the big powerhouses like Einhart and Victoria)
That is highly improbable. They're not that strong - B rank to A rank at the highest. Zafira would also beat the hell out of them, like stomping on them.
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Old 2012-07-24, 05:08   Link #2150
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That's tricky to assume considering Einhart managed to defeat Nove, a AAA rank-like combat cyborg, on the early chapters of the manga xDU
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Old 2012-07-24, 06:05   Link #2151
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Body augmentation rank, she's not on par with an AAA rank mage ... Next you'll tell me Einhalt is near where Fate and Nanoha were in S1. FYI, they would beat her in one attack and speedblitz her.
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Old 2012-07-24, 06:50   Link #2152
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Still talks pretty damn high about Einhart's resillence and power, as Nove's body augmentation rank means she's at least as strong and durable as a AAA-ranked mage. That is, around the level of Nanoha and Fate during Season One and Vita/Chrono's current level. We're also talking about the girl who can destroy giant rock golems with magical ki attacks like nothing xDU
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Old 2012-07-24, 08:01   Link #2153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
Still talks pretty damn high about Einhart's resillence and power
You mean the resilience that ended up with her being knocked out after just one hit? Or the powerful punch that did not stop nove from attaching a sensor to her?
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Old 2012-07-24, 09:35   Link #2154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
Still talks pretty damn high about Einhart's resillence and power, as Nove's body augmentation rank means she's at least as strong and durable as a AAA-ranked mage.
That's not what that means.

Quote:
That is, around the level of Nanoha and Fate during Season One and Vita/Chrono's current level. We're also talking about the girl who can destroy giant rock golems with magical ki attacks like nothing xDU
Eh, that's not actually impressive at all - I've actually calculated the power necessary to do that. Meanwhile we have Nanoha creating a kilometers wide explosion with Flash Impact in S1, for starters. There's a lot more, but that gives you an idea in difference in scale when you try to quantify the feats in the series.
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Old 2012-07-24, 09:41   Link #2155
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I would like to add that we are mostly seeing the Vivid-girls fighting amongst themselves. Their feats might appear more impressive simply because they are fighting against people of similar power levels. Those training sessions with Nanoha and Co. were basically the veterans goofing around with kiddy gloves on. I seriously doubt any of the Vivid-girls can match the intensity of the veterans when they gets serious (or even semi-serious like the Nanoha & Signum "exhibition" match).

Spartan versus Spartan? Awesome.

Spartan versus SAS? Not so much. Well, hilarity maybe.

Cheers.
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Old 2012-07-24, 09:47   Link #2156
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Nanoha was also limited to an AA rank and downed Einhalt in one shot in their team mock battle IIRC. That wouldn't have happened to someone as resilient as an AAA rank mage.

I really want to see how one of the kids does against Lutecia going all out.
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Old 2012-07-24, 13:19   Link #2157
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English scanlation for chapter 28 of Vivid is out.
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Old 2012-07-24, 16:26   Link #2158
Justin_Brett
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Reading the backlog, and:

"Written on her back in glyphs from another world..."

I was willing to ignore that, Vivid, and then you deliberately call attention to it? That just raises further questions!
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Old 2012-07-24, 16:26   Link #2159
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So Corona finally did a fusion dance with a golem and uppercut Einhart
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Old 2012-07-24, 16:35   Link #2160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin_Brett View Post
Reading the backlog, and:

"Written on her back in glyphs from another world..."

I was willing to ignore that, Vivid, and then you deliberately call attention to it? That just raises further questions!
It's been a while since I read Vivid... what part is that from?
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