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Old 2012-07-25, 06:21   Link #541
Clarste
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Quote:
Originally Posted by novalysis View Post
Then again, because there is no "First Day" animated, our viewers are unaware of Kirito's huge Imouto complex. The "you remind me of your sister" may well be seen as something coming out of no where.
On the other hand, we saw his sister in episode 1, so at least we know he has a sister.
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Old 2012-07-25, 06:34   Link #542
Awrya
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Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
Hmm, I don't really see how The Black Swordsman fits in right now. Well, I do, but I don't like it much. Episode 3 ended with Kirito basically giving up out of guilt, silently vowing to never party again for fear of getting someone killed and generally being recklessly suicidal while leveling.

Which is... not exactly how he's portrayed in The Black Swordsman. He's working with others the entire story for little reason, and even when it turns out he was using her as bait he's doing that as a favor for someone else. He even directly puts someone in danger while trusting in his own abilities. Did he learn anything from the Black Cats?
He told Silica to have her crystal ready and leave him behind if necessary. Unlike the time with the black cats, when they move up floors Silica has little to no knowledge about, he does lead and guide her, which he didn't do for the Black Cats.

My opinion is that he learned he should only keep personal info a secret (level, skills, beater etc), but distribute and inform other players about enemies. When Klein wanted to know the conditions for [Dual Blades], Kirito stated he would have told others if he had known, which I say is really unselfish in a game like SAO.
Telling others the conditions for a skill which only you have and is overpowered?
How many other players would have done the same?
Quote:
It's like... his character developed between the stories in a way that really should have been shown. The logical conclusion of what the anime doing is that Scilica will be the one who warms his heart again. Somehow. For no particular reason. It just strikes me as weird.
It definitely helped Kirito overcome his trauma, the deaths and suicide of the Black Cats, including Keita's last sentence, about how beaters don't have the rights to party with anyone.

Along with Sachi's last message and helping Silica, a normal mid-level player, proved that even he can help others, though I agree that the months between the Red-nosed Reindeer and The Black Swordsman should get some attention. Turning from close to suicidal to someone who can converse and joke with the others is a big step.
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Old 2012-07-25, 06:43   Link #543
Clarste
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Originally Posted by Awrya View Post
My opinion is that he learned he should only keep personal info a secret (level, skills, beater etc), but distribute and inform other players about enemies. When Klein wanted to know the conditions for [Dual Blades], Kirito stated he would have told others if he had known, which I say is really unselfish in a game like SAO.
Telling others the conditions for a skill which only you have and is overpowered?
How many other players would have done the same?
Um... plenty? Telling your friends how they can be stronger helps you live. Most people aren't crazy soloers like Kirito, so they're partying with people who will watch their back. There's really no advantage at all to keeping something like that a secret. Selling it for a high price would make more sense.
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Old 2012-07-25, 06:45   Link #544
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Well well well... if it isn't the "girl" and guy from first episode l0l.
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Old 2012-07-25, 07:05   Link #545
Clarste
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Originally Posted by Awrya View Post
He told Silica to have her crystal ready and leave him behind if necessary. Unlike the time with the black cats, when they move up floors Silica has little to no knowledge about, he does lead and guide her, which he didn't do for the Black Cats.
He also used her as bait to catch the PKers. And he himself proved in the same scene that a skilled opponent could prevent her from using her crystal in an emergency. Taking her to the dungeon was one thing, but using her as bait for a known PKer is just... well, not the Kirito we would see immediately after episode 3.
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Old 2012-07-25, 07:05   Link #546
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I am pretty sure you guys notice that the clothes he has on are different from LN version of this SS
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Old 2012-07-25, 09:40   Link #547
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LN author only drew one outfit, and followed oldstyle RPGs where the armor model doesn't change on the character.

Anime is following current MMORPG trend.
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Old 2012-07-25, 10:13   Link #548
Netto Azure
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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
LN author only drew one outfit, and followed oldstyle RPGs where the armor model doesn't change on the character.

Anime is following current MMORPG trend.
It's actually better that way. Still at least we'll probably get introduced to the master dressmaker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by novalysis View Post
Then again, because there is no "First Day" animated, our viewers are unaware of Kirito's huge Imouto complex.
Now his entire harem makes complete sense. xD
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Old 2012-07-25, 12:49   Link #549
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I see in the non-spoiler speculation thread people are already discussing whether Silica will die or not. Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha! I wonder how long it'll take for people to realize that only red shirts and bad guys will die from here on out?
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Old 2012-07-25, 13:03   Link #550
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So, it seems Anime staff made a mistake by animating side story before a main story.

Right now, people complain about how fast the story go (Jump from floor 1 to 28, 49 something like that) and how the plot doesn't make any sense in term of conncection between each ep.

This guy (5HAD0WFREAK) 's post reflect anime watchers' opinion very well.
http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topici...60#msg16046103


I am not VN readers but I like to read spoiler so I know what will happen in future. Seriously, I was very surprise to find out that SAO's part only takes 1 volumes (2 if you count side story in vol.2 ) to finish and then MC move to play other game.

I and probably all anime watchers right now thought/think that the whole story will be all about SAO............
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Old 2012-07-25, 13:05   Link #551
Netto Azure
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Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako View Post
I see in the non-spoiler speculation thread people are already discussing whether Silica will die or not. Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha! I wonder how long it'll take for people to realize that only red shirts and bad guys will die from here on out?
Well technically, Scilica's pet dies then revived so lol. Tempted to joke that all the loli's die :P
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Old 2012-07-25, 13:51   Link #552
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Hmm, Black Swordsman is probably one of the easiest to adapt, though it does indeed come across as strange coming after RNR since while Kirito is still rather closed off he comes across being okay.

I'm curious how Fairy Dance will be adapted having finished it recently. The fact that it doesn't jump around much will probably make it easier to understand as it doesn't have all the jumps Aincrad has. Still, I imagine they'll likely cut some things, but am not sure what exactly.
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Old 2012-07-25, 14:11   Link #553
Awrya
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Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
Um... plenty? Telling your friends how they can be stronger helps you live. Most people aren't crazy soloers like Kirito, so they're partying with people who will watch their back. There's really no advantage at all to keeping something like that a secret. Selling it for a high price would make more sense.
I mean others as players in general, ie the whole population of SAO. If someone in a clearing guild got Dual Blades, and he told his guild members the conditions, that guild would dominate the clearing group. Now imagine The Army is the guild, they could very well impose the tax in starting town in all floors.

But in the end Dual Blades is an unique skill, ordinary extra skills wouldn't give you that big of an advantage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
He also used her as bait to catch the PKers. And he himself proved in the same scene that a skilled opponent could prevent her from using her crystal in an emergency. Taking her to the dungeon was one thing, but using her as bait for a known PKer is just... well, not the Kirito we would see immediately after episode 3.
I'm not trying to deny that using her as a bait is justified, all I'm trying to say is that Kirito is confident he can defend Silica until she uses her crystal. He noticed the ambush before, and after the orange players came out they were in front of them, with Kirito in front of Silica.
Kirito could snatch the crystal because no one stood between them and his sprint level was high, if an orange player tried that he'd have to get through Kirito first before taking the crystal.

Edit: I hope Silica's armour will looks like Vol. 2, after getting and equipping what she got from Kirito, her current armour looks rather plain
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Old 2012-07-25, 18:25   Link #554
Clarste
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Awrya View Post
I mean others as players in general, ie the whole population of SAO. If someone in a clearing guild got Dual Blades, and he told his guild members the conditions, that guild would dominate the clearing group. Now imagine The Army is the guild, they could very well impose the tax in starting town in all floors.

But in the end Dual Blades is an unique skill, ordinary extra skills wouldn't give you that big of an advantage.
The clearing group for the most part isn't competing with each other. They all want to live after all. If even a solo player like Kirito gets invited to strategy meetings and boss fights, I'm pretty sure the different guilds work together too. Top players simply can't afford to be picky about their allies. We've already seen this in things like sharing maps or "they found the boss room". It's implied that most of them are working together, and to not do so would be unusual.

Think about this too: there are only a finite number of players in the game. And only a fraction of those have the potential to be a skilled clearer. And only a fraction of those have been playing long enough and efficiently enough to be high enough level to participate. It's simply impractical to replace people when they die. And they will die, even if the clearers are making steady progress. Just due to attrition the number of clearers will decrease over time. I wouldn't be surprised if the top guilds were forced to merge if the game had gone on to the end. So in that sense, letting the other clearers die for your own short-term glory is just screwing yourself in the long run, and hardly helpful in the short run either. I'm sure a few people are stupid enough to do that, but it can't be most of them since they're all experienced veterans of this death game.

I'm sure you'll want to mention the Silver Dragon Alliance who apparently try to get as many rare items as they can at the expense of others, but rare items are a limited resource. They need to monopolize them as much as possible to protect their own. Knowledge is not a limited resource. Other people knowing your secret skills doesn't hurt you at all. The more people who know it, the better off everyone is. Maybe you'll even get some new recruits from it. I can imagine selling it for a one-time profit, but keeping it a guild secret is absolutely stupid.

Quote:
I'm not trying to deny that using her as a bait is justified, all I'm trying to say is that Kirito is confident he can defend Silica until she uses her crystal. He noticed the ambush before, and after the orange players came out they were in front of them, with Kirito in front of Silica.
Kirito could snatch the crystal because no one stood between them and his sprint level was high, if an orange player tried that he'd have to get through Kirito first before taking the crystal.

Edit: I hope Silica's armour will looks like Vol. 2, after getting and equipping what she got from Kirito, her current armour looks rather plain
He was confident he could protect the Black Cats with his levels too, which is why he didn't bother telling them things. Just like, say, not telling Silica that they were being tracked by PKers. It's not like he can tell what level the other players are by looking at them, so logically it's even riskier than a dungeon that he already knows the monsters of. He felt he could do it because he was strong, and it turned out he could, but he was gambling with her life, and last time he tried that he lost. It's exactly the same situation, therefore he has learned nothing.
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Old 2012-07-25, 19:36   Link #555
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Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
He was confident he could protect the Black Cats with his levels too, which is why he didn't bother telling them things. Just like, say, not telling Silica that they were being tracked by PKers. It's not like he can tell what level the other players are by looking at them, so logically it's even riskier than a dungeon that he already knows the monsters of. He felt he could do it because he was strong, and it turned out he could, but he was gambling with her life, and last time he tried that he lost. It's exactly the same situation, therefore he has learned nothing.
I'm pretty sure he'd done his homework about that guild's capability already, otherwise it would've been a huge gamble even for himself. At this point the player base is pretty well established, and since he's been at the frontline the whole time, I doubt it's difficult to figure out those bandits aren't exactly high level (especially when you consider there's a certain mouse around )
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Old 2012-07-25, 19:42   Link #556
zodanhko
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I'm pretty sure he'd done his homework about that guild's capability already, otherwise it would've been a huge gamble even for himself. At this point the player base is pretty well established, and since he's been at the frontline the whole time, I doubt it's difficult to figure out those bandits aren't exactly high level (especially when you consider there's a certain mouse around )
That explains why he allowed himself to be attacked by 10+ people from that guild without moving an inch. Because he knew they were extremely weak compared to him.
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Old 2012-07-25, 20:56   Link #557
Clarste
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It's literally impossible to tell someone's level without looking at their status screen, which they'd have to show you themselves. I doubt the people in the orange guild even know each other's levels with any precision, let alone outsiders. And even if you think someone's weak, what if they're just using weak equipment and saving a trumpcard? What if they had called in a higher level friend who hadn't worked with them before? And even if they can't hurt Kirito they might be able to pin him down long enough to attack Silica. There are way too many variables to have 100% confidence. 90% confidence, sure, but would Kirito bet on that 10% not happening so soon after his tragedy?
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Old 2012-07-25, 21:31   Link #558
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Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
It's literally impossible to tell someone's level without looking at their status screen, which they'd have to show you themselves. I doubt the people in the orange guild even know each other's levels with any precision, let alone outsiders. And even if you think someone's weak, what if they're just using weak equipment and saving a trumpcard? What if they had called in a higher level friend who hadn't worked with them before? And even if they can't hurt Kirito they might be able to pin him down long enough to attack Silica. There are way too many variables to have 100% confidence. 90% confidence, sure, but would Kirito bet on that 10% not happening so soon after his tragedy?
Keep in mind that gaining level in SAO is not a particularly easy task - Scilica is said to be on the high end among the non-clearing group population (ie. the vast majority of the player base), and even then she was only in the 40s. The best leveling spot is always at the front line where the clearing groups are, and given that orange guilds are not exactly on peaceful terms with.. well, anyone, any orange player would be hard-pressed to gain access to the good leveling spots, they're much more likely to get tossed into jail instead.

While your what-ifs are certainly not impossible, they make no logical sense in this context. It makes no sense for the bandits to go on a suicide charge against Kirito to kill Scilica. They're there to kill weak players and rob their valuables, not to throw their life away for no apparent reason. There's also no reason for them to pretend to be weak and hide any "trump" cards, nor is there a way for them to call in any high level "friends" - there is no instant teleport to friends/party member abilities in SAO. Any help they can call upon would already have to be there with them, which again makes no sense as they're bandits going to ambush a couple poor sods, not trying to fight an all-out battle against a top level player from the clearing group, which is rather far-removed from their level of players.

While it's true that one can never be 100% sure, in this particular case it's about as certain as one can possibly be. Also keep in mind that the pleads from the sole surviving leader of the guild that was wiped out probably struck at particular chord with Kirito given what happened earlier.
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Old 2012-07-25, 21:46   Link #559
Clarste
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Keep in mind that gaining level in SAO is not a particularly easy task - Scilica is said to be on the high end among the non-clearing group population (ie. the vast majority of the player base), and even then she was only in the 40s. The best leveling spot is always at the front line where the clearing groups are, and given that orange guilds are not exactly on peaceful terms with.. well, anyone, any orange player would be hard-pressed to gain access to the good leveling spots, they're much more likely to get tossed into jail instead.

While your what-ifs are certainly not impossible, they make no logical sense in this context. It makes no sense for the bandits to go on a suicide charge against Kirito to kill Scilica. They're there to kill weak players and rob their valuables, not to throw their life away for no apparent reason. There's also no reason for them to pretend to be weak and hide any "trump" cards, nor is there a way for them to call in any high level "friends" - there is no instant teleport to friends/party member abilities in SAO. Any help they can call upon would already have to be there with them, which again makes no sense as they're bandits going to ambush a couple poor sods, not trying to fight an all-out battle against a top level player from the clearing group, which is rather far-removed from their level of players.

While it's true that one can never be 100% sure, in this particular case it's about as certain as one can possibly be. Also keep in mind that the pleads from the sole surviving leader of the guild that was wiped out probably struck at particular chord with Kirito given what happened earlier.
Okay, call it 99%. It's still possible.

No reason to hold trump cards? Of course there's a reason to hold trump cards. Pkers have more reason to hold trump cards than any other player... They rely completely on having the upper hand at all times. It's risky enough when your targets are monsters, but when attacking humans you have to be ready for anything. And they knew she had an unknown escort who was higher level, high enough to trivialize the dungeon as well as give Silica good enough equipment to trivialize it on her own. Most of the PKers we've seen have relies on tricks and poisons and such.

PKers in the clearing groups? Oh hey, wasn't there one in volume 1? What's-his-face who infiltrated KoB? That was kind of a major plot point. And, well, the leader of the gang in this particular story also blended in nicely with the peaceful players. Just because you're an orange player doesn't mean you're always orange. Who knows how many people in the clearing group would be willing to help a murderer? You don't know, and Kirito doesn't know. And of course they'd have been part of the original ambush as opposed to coming in afterwards, but how exactly does that help? You can't tell how strong someone is by looking at them. Maybe some high level guy was taking a break and decided to help his low level friends. Maybe he knows them in real life.

Too many variables.

Edit: I'm not saying Kirito was stupid to have confidence. 90%, or 99%, are very good odds. However, when seen as "the event immediately after RNR" is becomes odd to think that he'd suddenly take any risk at all of an ally dying under his protection, let alone put them in danger.
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Old 2012-07-25, 22:17   Link #560
kyp275
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If you're gonna go that far out to create those situations, then the only thing anyone should ever do in SAO is to sit in an inn in the town of beginning forever. SAO is an action/adventure story, not a spy novel.

I understand the point you're making, but to me it's akin to someone deciding they're not gonna drive a car anymore after they were involved in a car accident, or afraid to go outside because they might get struck by lightning :/
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