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Old 2012-07-25, 10:32   Link #21
Destined_Fate
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Yui, she is the superior officer after all.
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Old 2012-07-25, 11:00   Link #22
Wild Goose
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It'll play out just like one of their dogfights, with both sides vying for dominance.
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Old 2012-07-25, 11:55   Link #23
shaga
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lol, if top gun not waste his amno maybe he can beat japanesse doll
but since japanesse doll had a face corpse make it more difficult
Spoiler for :
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Old 2012-07-25, 14:05   Link #24
Destined_Fate
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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
It'll play out just like one of their dogfights, with both sides vying for dominance.
So that comes down to Experience vs Talent? If that's the case than Yui is at a disadvantage since she doesn't seem like she has even thought of doing that or if she has lost her virginity. Which may explain some of her bitchiness.
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Old 2012-07-25, 15:33   Link #25
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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
So that comes down to Experience vs Talent? If that's the case than Yui is at a disadvantage since she doesn't seem like she has even thought of doing that or if she has lost her virginity. Which may explain some of her bitchiness.
it is Experience+Talent+Luck vs Talent.

Yui survive almost 10 yrs on the front-line against Betas, that takes talent and luck.
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Old 2012-07-25, 16:11   Link #26
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Spoiler for About Yuuya, probably a spoiler question:
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Old 2012-07-25, 16:29   Link #27
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Spoiler for About Yuuya, probably a spoiler question:
ahh, the Beta has the laser ones.

and Yuuya is a test pilot, we don't know what he specialize in other then putting his machine to the max.
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Old 2012-07-26, 02:04   Link #28
Destined_Fate
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it is Experience+Talent+Luck vs Talent.

Yui survive almost 10 yrs on the front-line against Betas, that takes talent and luck.
Perhaps but that just makes things very unfair for Yuuya than. We don't know her battle record or if she just got lucky or is a protege. We do know she's a veteran against the BETA and has fought them for a long time.
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Old 2012-07-26, 02:21   Link #29
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Uh, while I don't deny that Yui an experienced soldier, she totally didn't fight with BETA for 10 years. Invasion in Japan started in 1998, the 3 episode take place in 2001.
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Old 2012-07-26, 08:20   Link #30
Destined_Fate
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I didn't notice that part, but yeah. Yui hasn't been fighting that long. That doesn't diminish the fact that she is a highly skilled veteran with many dead BETA under her belt.
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Old 2012-07-26, 10:11   Link #31
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only 3 yrs. i thought Yui look older then 3 yrs form ep 1-2. i guess being on the front line will age someone faster then normal.
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Old 2012-07-26, 14:54   Link #32
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Eh,
Spoiler for Spoiler for content that has not been shown in the anime yet:

Last edited by White Manju Bun; 2012-07-26 at 15:12.
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Old 2012-07-26, 15:09   Link #33
Destined_Fate
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That hasn't happened in the Anime.
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Old 2012-07-26, 18:19   Link #34
kari-no-sugata
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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
That might be their cultural mores, but it's still rude, y'know. And she's still a bitch towards Yuuya, while Yuuya is being an ass towards her.
I'm not sure if you're agreeing with my argument that such language wouldn't necessarily be intended as evidence for Yui's particular attitude towards Yuuya but I do agree with you in that it is evidence for Yui's (seeming) general problem in dealing with people outside of Japan: From start of ep 3, we see very little from Yui's point of view or things that would help explain her attitude but I suspect that how Yui is treating Yuuya is how she would be expected to be treated (in Japan) if the situation was reversed. But she's not in Japan.

So while Yuuya clearly needs to get to grips to dealing with Japanese-style TSFs, Yui probably needs to get to grips with dealing with non-Japanese military people. We dont know what Yui's been doing the last 3 years but I presume she's qualified for the job, so I would guess her problems would be more cultural than technical. It's not uncommon for writers to pair or mirror characters problems/developments too - so maybe when we see longer scenes specifically from Yui's perspective again they'll push the "fish out of water" or "foreigner in a foreign land" aspect.


PS Trying to keep things focused on Yui here. I'll post some more Yui vs Yuuya stuff some other time I hope, in a more appropriate thread.
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Old 2012-07-27, 02:38   Link #35
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Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata View Post
I'm not sure if you're agreeing with my argument that such language wouldn't necessarily be intended as evidence for Yui's particular attitude towards Yuuya but I do agree with you in that it is evidence for Yui's (seeming) general problem in dealing with people outside of Japan: From start of ep 3, we see very little from Yui's point of view or things that would help explain her attitude but I suspect that how Yui is treating Yuuya is how she would be expected to be treated (in Japan) if the situation was reversed. But she's not in Japan.

So while Yuuya clearly needs to get to grips to dealing with Japanese-style TSFs, Yui probably needs to get to grips with dealing with non-Japanese military people. We dont know what Yui's been doing the last 3 years but I presume she's qualified for the job, so I would guess her problems would be more cultural than technical. It's not uncommon for writers to pair or mirror characters problems/developments too - so maybe when we see longer scenes specifically from Yui's perspective again they'll push the "fish out of water" or "foreigner in a foreign land" aspect.


PS Trying to keep things focused on Yui here. I'll post some more Yui vs Yuuya stuff some other time I hope, in a more appropriate thread.
I'm ... guardedly agreeing with your argument that it's not evidence of her attitude to Yuuya. that said you've brought up some very good points here, which I agree with. Thoughtful discussion on the internet is so hard to find
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Old 2012-07-27, 06:49   Link #36
Destined_Fate
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She is Japanese, of course she expects discipline from her underlings. Yuuya has shown a lack of discipline and total disrespect for his superiors so of course she wants him to correct himself. However since she's Japanese she acts like he's a Japanese soldier and treats him as one when he's used to being treated as an American soldier.
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Old 2012-07-27, 10:38   Link #37
encia
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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Yui, she is the superior officer after all.
Only within the XFJ project's context

Quote:
Originally Posted by EP04
Yuuya: "Is that an order given as part of the XFJ project? Or are you merely forcing your personal interests on me?"

Yui: Whichever you prefer.
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Old 2012-07-27, 10:44   Link #38
Wild Goose
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There's a distinction between superior officer in rank - which Yui is - and whether she's actually formally part of Argos Flight's chain of command, which she doesn't quite seem to be.
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Old 2012-07-27, 11:10   Link #39
kari-no-sugata
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Normally Japanese novels are entirely from the perspective of the main character. I dont know how closely eps 3-4 follows the novels in terms of plot and characters, but I would presume that in the novel these scenes would be 99-100% from Yuuya's point of view.

Which makes it a lot harder to guess what Yui is thinking and what her situation is. In ep 3 we're given a brief glimpse from her point of view, which shows that she's a recent arrival to the base (and the US), but we dont even know her official task or position there. This all makes it a lot harder to sympathise with her.

We see in eps 1-2 that Yui is very serious and diligent, even compared to her classmates at what feels like an "ojou-sama military school" (if that makes any sense). I thought she was surprisingly mature for her first combat experience. We also see that Japan was under serious resource constraints even before the BETA invade - I imagine it's been much much worse in the 3 years since. Everything indicates that she takes the war very very seriously.

So if we take someone in her position and move her to a country which is (comparatively!) much more relaxed about the war against the BETA we should expect to see some differences of opinion - not only are there big design/operation differences in the countries' TSFs but despite being an "elite" test pilot with a lot of experience, Yuuya doesn't seem to have done serious anti-BETA testing before ep 4. Yui considers the project to be important to her own country's survival too - it would be very unrealistic for her to be casual about it.

So how has Yui done? Well, for the most part I think she's been professional and mature, but Yuuya is very hard for her to deal with due to his "Japanese trauma" - she's not a mind-reading ESPer and asking him to explain himself hasn't been very enlightening. My general impression is that she's trying to do the best she knows how with what she's been given but hasn't been able to mask the various irritations she has.

It would be unreasonable to expect her to be perfect, but I think she has made some small mistakes in things she's said or done - or not done. For example, she prepared a training unit for Yuuya to allow him to get used to the operational differences but doesn't seem to have anticipated cultural differences. In their first scene in ep 4, she notices that Yuuya looks "unhappy" and tries to figure out why and to resolve the issue but gets nowhere - I imagine she was very confused by his general attitude and his responses but doesn't seem to have tried alternative methods to get to the bottom of the problem. There's other things, but they've mostly been pointed out already...
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Old 2012-07-27, 11:57   Link #40
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Serious question, has there been any evidence presented in the anime that Yui is a good, let alone great, pilot?

She seemed to do alright against her fellow trainees (fellow noobs), but it seems like the only reason she was second-in-command of her squad during the battle for Kyoto is because of her family's rank. Furthermore, during the battle her flight skills were unexceptional, and she botched the retreat by ordering the popping of smoke too late, being unaware of her surroundings and getting taken down two separate times by BETA, one a destroyer class and one a fort class, and having her squad flying in too tight a formation.

That's the only combat we see Yui experience, before the time skip to Alaska.

We know from the anime that in this Muv-Luv world Japan exists under a shogunate, and seemingly shares the same rigid class structure as former shogunates in the real world. Those who are vassals of the Shogun, such as Yui and her family, are rewarded with better equipment (the Takemizakuchi) and better opportunities than those of lower classes, regardless of ability.

So isn't it more likely that Yui is put in charge of this project not because of her own accomplishments, but because of her family name? That's the most likely conclusion from what we've seen so far.
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