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Old 2012-07-27, 12:05   Link #41
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trajan View Post
Serious question, has there been any evidence presented in the anime that Yui is a good, let alone great, pilot?

She seemed to do alright against her fellow trainees (fellow noobs), but it seems like the only reason she was second-in-command of her squad during the battle for Kyoto is because of her family's rank.
She was in charge of her training because she best in the class.

Quote:
So isn't it more likely that Yui is put in charge of this project not because of her own accomplishments, but because of her family name? That's the most likely conclusion from what we've seen so far.
i think spending 3 yrs on the frontlines and surviving qualify her as talented. And she got promotions and her current because she is good at what she does.
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Old 2012-07-27, 13:12   Link #42
Trajan
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Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
She was in charge of her training because she best in the class.
Not necessarily true. Although we are shown that Yui is a good trainee, there is no evidence that she is the "best in the class."

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Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
i think spending 3 yrs on the frontlines and surviving qualify her as talented. And she got promotions and her current because she is good at what she does.
Your statement is not supported by anything in the anime. We know that Kyoto was retaken (somehow) but that Yui was an invalid at the time and did not participate at all. We know nothing of what she did in the intervening 3 years. There is no evidence she "was on the front lines" or that she got her promotions "because she is good at what she does." The only combat experience we are shown is her disastrous initial encounter with BETA, where she only survives due to luck and the actions of others.
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Old 2012-07-27, 13:14   Link #43
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Originally Posted by Trajan View Post
Not necessarily true. Although we are shown that Yui is a good trainee, there is no evidence that she is the "best in the class."



Your statement is not supported by anything in the anime. We know that Kyoto was retaken (somehow) but that Yui was an invalid at the time and did not participate at all. We know nothing of what she did in the intervening 3 years. There is no evidence she "was on the front lines" or that she got her promotions "because she is good at what she does." The only combat experience we are shown is her disastrous initial encounter with BETA, where she only survives due to luck and the actions of others.
and you don't have any evidence that Yui got her current job because of her family name.
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Old 2012-07-27, 13:32   Link #44
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Xellos, you're trying to distract from the point Trajan is raising.

Has she more combat time than Yuuya? Yes. Does that automatically make her better? No.

A Somali thug will have more combat time than a SEAL instructor. Said SEAL instructor will kick his ass.
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Old 2012-07-27, 13:54   Link #45
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Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
and you don't have any evidence that Yui got her current job because of her family name.
No concrete evidence, no. But looking solely at what has been shown in the anime, we basically know this about Yui:

1. Father was someone important in the military
2. Uncle is a colonel of some importance involved in developing military prototypes (what's the XFJ project developing btw?)
3. Family has a privileged position as a vassal of the Shogun
4. Was a good trainee, probably near the top of her class (in dueling other TSFs at least).
5. Was totally overwhelmed in combat and unable to function well tactically and emotionally on the battlefield.

Beyond that, it's all guessing. Based on the five points above, it would make the most sense that Yui is a competent pilot who lacks tactical awareness, and although not blatantly unqualified for her posting, she most likely got it over other candidates due to her family name.

Of course, since series seems to have somewhat of a pro-nationalist bent to it, she'll probably turn out to be an exceptional pilot whose "spiritual superiority" allows her to defeat the arrogant foreigner Yuuya and show him that the Japanese way is the best.
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Old 2012-07-27, 13:57   Link #46
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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
Xellos, you're trying to distract from the point Trajan is raising.

Has she more combat time than Yuuya? Yes. Does that automatically make her better? No.

A Somali thug will have more combat time than a SEAL instructor. Said SEAL instructor will kick his ass.
That's a poor example considering that Yui is an elite member of the Japanese military, one of the highest. She isn't just some street thug and unlike Yuuya she has real battle experience.
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Old 2012-07-27, 14:11   Link #47
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That's a poor example considering that Yui is an elite member of the Japanese military, one of the highest. She isn't just some street thug and unlike Yuuya she has real battle experience.
Do you have any evidence that Yui is an elite member of the Japanese military due to her individual skill and accomplishment and not her family name? Do you have any evidence that she has fought in a battle other than the one shown in episode 2, where Yui's squad was obliterated, Yui lost it mentally, and only survived due to luck and the actions of others?

I'm asking seriously here. People in this thread and others keep claiming she has all this experience and skill, but where's the evidence for that? That she isn't dead? That five years ago she beat another 16 year old girl in TSF kendo?
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Old 2012-07-27, 14:21   Link #48
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How about you cool down a little? You and we do not have any evidence of what experience she have earned during those three years. Just because she have not a spectacular performance during the battle of Kyoto doesn't mean that she is a subpar soldier either. We are in the blind right now, and have to trust what the next episodes are going to show.
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Old 2012-07-27, 14:22   Link #49
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Originally Posted by Trajan View Post
No concrete evidence, no. But looking solely at what has been shown in the anime, we basically know this about Yui:

1. Father was someone important in the military
2. Uncle is a colonel of some importance involved in developing military prototypes (what's the XFJ project developing btw?)
3. Family has a privileged position as a vassal of the Shogun
4. Was a good trainee, probably near the top of her class (in dueling other TSFs at least).
5. Was totally overwhelmed in combat and unable to function well tactically and emotionally on the battlefield.

Beyond that, it's all guessing. Based on the five points above, it would make the most sense that Yui is a competent pilot who lacks tactical awareness, and although not blatantly unqualified for her posting, she most likely got it over other candidates due to her family name.

Of course, since series seems to have somewhat of a pro-nationalist bent to it, she'll probably turn out to be an exceptional pilot whose "spiritual superiority" allows her to defeat the arrogant foreigner Yuuya and show him that the Japanese way is the best.
All good points.
The XFJ plan is to develop the next Main stream TSF that will become the Backbone force of the IJA- Imperial Japan Army. And to replace the Type 94 shiranui.

And as part of the Imperial Royal guards---the direct military arm that can only be ordered by the Shogunate. They are held as more"elite" than the Regulars in the IJA. And i would assume that as a frontline country fighting in a war for survival, Japan would not be in the business of keeping Incompetent officers in key positions so most likely in this show she is going to be the type of pilot that like you said is going to one who have achieved "spiritual superiority" and will kick a lot of ass because of it.

also minor spoiler because this part was literally in the prologue of the novels ,but the anime choose to skip over it.
Spoiler for Why yui was chosen for this position.:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Trajan View Post
Do you have any evidence that Yui is an elite member of the Japanese military due to her individual skill and accomplishment and not her family name? Do you have any evidence that she has fought in a battle other than the one shown in episode 2, where Yui's squad was obliterated, Yui lost it mentally, and only survived due to luck and the actions of others?

I'm asking seriously here. People in this thread and others keep claiming she has all this experience and skill, but where's the evidence for that? That she isn't dead? That five years ago she beat another 16 year old girl in TSF kendo?
If you want Evidence only from the anime only then no I can not provide any. But the source material covers all of this if you really want to know and be spoiled about the novel.

Also considering that i have seen grown man becoming gibbering wrecks after their first IED strike experience in Afghanistan, i won't blame some 14 year old Japanese girl for being emotionally and mentally overwhelmed by what she had to face with during her first taste of combat. In fact i would categorize that has having done pretty well.

Last edited by Angrypokstick; 2012-07-27 at 14:44.
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Old 2012-07-27, 14:42   Link #50
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Originally Posted by Trajan View Post
Do you have any evidence that Yui is an elite member of the Japanese military due to her individual skill and accomplishment and not her family name? Do you have any evidence that she has fought in a battle other than the one shown in episode 2, where Yui's squad was obliterated, Yui lost it mentally, and only survived due to luck and the actions of others?

I'm asking seriously here. People in this thread and others keep claiming she has all this experience and skill, but where's the evidence for that? That she isn't dead? That five years ago she beat another 16 year old girl in TSF kendo?
It's because that's her position, she didn't get it from sitting on her ass and has been fighting BETA in Japan for years. You know considering that unlike America, Japan and Eurasia is a BETA war front with millions of BETA running around.

While for Yuuya all we have that he's a supposed ACE yet in the training he's defeated by Tarisa and in the simulation he utterly failed hard. That can be chalked off that Tarisa had the better TSF(Which Yuuya has no idea how to use anyway) but his failure in the simulation was beyond horrible considering that even novices know that you never allow yourself to get surrounded or stay in one place.

Fighting BETA means constantly moving which was something Yuuya did not do that all. Had Yui's team been more experienced, and not just a bunch of Green Teenagers, they wouldn't have allowed that to happen and wouldn't have been swarmed. Yuuya on the other hand is not green to simulations(Though he has never faced that many BETA) yet he still makes novice mistakes which Yui knows would have got him killed on a real battlefield because of her experiences on the war front.
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Old 2012-07-27, 14:47   Link #51
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He did not lose to Tarisa. Using team tactics he got her into a place of disadvantage allowing his Wingman to finish the job. (Just like Jester to Maverick)
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Old 2012-07-27, 14:49   Link #52
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Originally Posted by YF19EX View Post
He did not lose to Tarisa. Using team tactics he got her into a place of disadvantage allowing his Wingman to finish the job. (Just like Jester to Maverick)
the point was that if it was a one versus one he would have lost. He was fully mounted and had damages to all over his TSF. there was no chance he could have survived and reversed the position if Stella did not intervene in time.
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Old 2012-07-27, 14:51   Link #53
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But it was not one on one in the context of the exercise.
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Old 2012-07-27, 14:57   Link #54
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That still doesn't change that Tarisa dominated him in the exercise. Stella manages to defeat not only her opponent but Tarisa as well making it clear how far she is compared to Yuuya since unlike him she has real combat experience.

Which is why Yui didn't like what she saw since had Tarisa not taken a moment to brag she would have taken him out completely. Which means in a real battle Yuuya was as good as dead since the BETA don't gloat, they kill.
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Old 2012-07-27, 15:05   Link #55
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It's because that's her position, she didn't get it from sitting on her ass and has been fighting BETA in Japan for years. You know considering that unlike America, Japan and Eurasia is a BETA war front with millions of BETA running around.
Please point me to a scene or dialogue in the anime where we are shown (or told) that Yui has engaged BETA, beyond the first battle for Kyoto. Or is this something made clear to LN readers, who are then arguing about her experience fro the LN?

Quote:
While for Yuuya all we have that he's a supposed ACE yet in the training he's defeated by Tarisa
Quote:
That still doesn't change that Tarisa dominated him in the exercise. Stella manages to defeat not only her opponent but Tarisa as well making it clear how far she is compared to Yuuya since unlike him she has real combat experience.

Which is why Yui didn't like what she saw since had Tarisa not taken a moment to brag she would have taken him out completely. Which means in a real battle Yuuya was as good as dead since the BETA don't gloat, they kill.
Spoiler for a bit off-topic from discussing Yui, but Yuuya v. Tarisa:


Back to Yui. I guess my problem is that her character in the anime has gone from crying noob to cold-hearted uberpilot with not exposition or explanation. I know the first two episodes are anime-original, and I think they do a good job of world-building and introducing the BETA. However, it makes a bit of a mess of Yui as a character to take her from frightened greenhorn to grizzled emotionless vet without any explanation of what got her there.

Sure, you can say "she saw her friends die", and maybe that explains why she is so distant, but it doesn't explain how she becomes a (supposedly) competent pilot. [Contrast that with Yuuya, where we know, through a few lines of dialogue, that he has an outstanding record and prior experience as a test pilot.]
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Old 2012-07-27, 15:15   Link #56
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It's assumed for the Anime, the other sources are more clear that Yui has plenty of combat experience. The next episode preview also hints heavily that Yuuya is going to get his ass handed to him by Yui which is expected since she actually knows what she's doing.

Those maneuvers would have got him killed if a Laser Class was around. Not to mention that Tarisa did defeat him, if she didn't gloat he would have been disabled completely on top of getting his TSF trashed. And other targets? The only other target was Stella which her partner was supposed to be handling.

So Yuuya didn't win(Since he was completely demolished by Tarisa), Stella did(Who took out both TSF's and was relatively unscathed).


Maybe because she's been on the front lines for 3 years? Or have you forgotten that Japan is strapped for pilots and has to deal with massive BETA waves while America is mostly unscathed?
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Old 2012-07-27, 15:30   Link #57
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Once again completely out of context of the exercise. This was a partner tsf vs tsf. Where superior tactics and team work beat raw skill. No matter how you spin it. Yuuya was still alive. When your opponent is still alive they are still a threat until you finish them. Tarisa's failed that and lost.

Anyhow I'm pushing this off topic. The next episode should be enlightening to say the least.
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Old 2012-07-27, 15:41   Link #58
Trajan
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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
It's assumed for the Anime, the other sources are more clear that Yui has plenty of combat experience.
Ahh, so really what you're saying is that there is no evidence that anime-Yui has combat experience, but LN-Yui does, therefore anime-Yui must have combat experience. That's fine I guess, and as YF19EX said above, maybe next episode will bring that in. For franchises like these, if you've only watched the anime, it's hard to tell sometimes whether others are arguing their point of view based on what they've seen on the screen, or what they've read elsewhere and then use to fill in gaps in the anime.
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Old 2012-07-27, 15:51   Link #59
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Tarisa had a partner that was supposed to be handling Stella. Stella proved to be the better pilot and takes out her opponent than takes out Tarisa after Tarisa beat Yuuya rather easily. Yuuya's team may have won but he himself didn't and his reckless actions would have gotten him killed many times over on a real battlefield. Which is why he disappoints Yui because of how green he is despite all his training.


Uhh.. Did you not watch the first two episodes? She does have experience and has been fighting ever since. You know since Japan is a War Zone which everyone makes a point of saying. Even the other characters mention that America has is easy compared to the BETA effected zones.
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Old 2012-07-27, 16:02   Link #60
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Japan in such desperate need of a new TSF because BETA invasion (which we saw in episodes 1 and 2) cost her losing of 36 millions of populace, that was didn't mentioned in anime, but pretty much repeated in original VN. That's why Yui so adamant in bringing out results.
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