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Old 2012-07-27, 10:39   Link #421
DragoonKain3
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Hey, all I was saying that IF you had to deduce the winner from the title, you need to count all three and not separately, considering the Japanese title uses 'to'. Nothing more, nothing less.

(BTW, no main heroine in mashifony. But Sakuno would always be the main one in my heart. <3)
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Old 2012-07-27, 10:45   Link #422
Mura
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuffle View Post
I could empathize with Yuuki's anger towards those bullies, especially because Isara's my favorite. And Mifuyu pregnant? I'm pretty sure she's just working so hard that she has had no time to eat and thus is just really hungry.
I certainly hope thats the case, its just that was the first thing that popped in my mind. My mind is in the gutter.
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Old 2012-07-27, 11:02   Link #423
novalysis
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Chocolate's selling point is Politics and Drama. Without those two, it's no better than Who is Imouto. At this point, I don't consider it harem at all.

Drama, Romance, Seinen - is there a Political or Intrigue tag on Animesuki too?
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Old 2012-07-27, 11:29   Link #424
Haak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
I personally like to see what an anime is really about from the get go, rather than taking 25% of the total air time just to set it up. One cour is too short to waste that much time just to get interesting.
I think most people understood what Kokoro Connect was going to be after the second episode so really only the first episode was "wasted". It did take three episodes to actually get to that point but then again we can't really say Koi has actually kicked off yet. So far we only have hints and snippets. The actual character drama hasn't truly begun.
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Old 2012-07-27, 12:44   Link #425
Guardian Enzo
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There are elements of Koichoco that feel very typical for a VN adaptation. I’m finding more and more that these shows need a few episodes to really “start” – they rarely hit the ground running like some anime do. And this one is certainly the same way – the process of world-building in a VN adaptation always seems to be awkward as compared to other sorts of series. But Koichoco strikes me as unusual among its brethren in one important sense – this show is primarily about the plot, and the interpersonal relationships seem secondary to that. It’s not as if the characters are terrible or even uninteresting, but it feels as if the creative energy here is really in the premise itself, which in romance VN is often just a necessary adjunct to the main event.
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Old 2012-07-27, 12:54   Link #426
DragoonKain3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
I think most people understood what Kokoro Connect was going to be after the second episode so really only the first episode was "wasted". It did take three episodes to actually get to that point but then again we can't really say Koi has actually kicked off yet. So far we only have hints and snippets. The actual character drama hasn't truly begun.
Meh, Koichoco isn't really much about totally about character drama, unlike Kokoro Connect. It's literally about Love, Election, And Chocolate. We've touched on the first and last, so we know it's going to be a part of it, but the Election part has kicked off to full swing already. Including it's ugly side, it seems.



And most people understood what Kokoro Connect is to be about by the second episode? Nah, the second episode is a bit of a stretch... at best you'd be able to claim 'some' people understood. Just going by Asuki posts alone, from posts 202-324 (the time periode between eps 2 and 3), them having a feeling it turning dark has been mentioned in only like 7 or 8 posts. Then discussion about the more grim nature of Kokoro Connect only went full swing after the third episode aired.

And what most people said about episode 2? This guy sums it up pretty nicely.

Spoiler for save space:
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Old 2012-07-27, 13:17   Link #427
Haak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
Meh, Koichoco isn't really much about totally about character drama, unlike Kokoro Connect. It's literally about Love, Election, And Chocolate. We've touched on the first and last, so we know it's going to be a part of it, but the Election part has kicked off to full swing already. Including it's ugly side, it seems.
If that's the case then it's kinda pointless to compare. The most that can be said is that Kokoro made a slow but seamless transition whilst Koi is still struggling to connect it's three elements in a coherent way.

Quote:
And most people understood what Kokoro Connect is to be about by the second episode? Nah, the second episode is a bit of a stretch... at best you'd be able to claim 'some' people understood. Just going by Asuki posts alone, from posts 202-324 (the time periode between eps 2 and 3), them having a feeling it turning dark has been mentioned in only like 7 or 8 posts. Then discussion about the more grim nature of Kokoro Connect only went full swing after the third episode aired.

And what most people said about episode 2? This guy sums it up pretty nicely.
I think many people understood that Kokoro Connect was going to take the body swapping seriously and use it explore the characters, and many people had already guessed Yui's problem. So no I don't think the guy summed it up. I still think it's a stretch to say Kokoro Connect was all light-hearted until episode 3.
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Old 2012-07-27, 13:47   Link #428
OceanBlue
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Originally Posted by thundrakkon View Post
Although she has no shot with the MC as is, I still really like her character. It breaks my heart to see characters like her. You just want to go right at them and protect them from all the evils of the world.
You captured my thoughts exactly. I felt awful by the end of the episode. I was mad in the beginning when I thought they were just beating her up, but humiliation like that killed it for me. Poor Aomi...
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Old 2012-07-27, 15:24   Link #429
DragoonKain3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
If that's the case then it's kinda pointless to compare.
All I said was that KoiChoco established its identity in episode 1, while Kokoro Connect took 3. Wasn't even comparing them to be the same type of anime. :shrug:

Quote:
The most that can be said is that Kokoro made a slow but seamless transition whilst Koi is still struggling to connect it's three elements in a coherent way.
It's shaping up quite nicely I must say. You've got the series now focusing on the Election part, but the Koi love triangle is starting to creep up because of it (damn you Satsuki! XD), and the Choco backstory is tied to Chisato on why her Koi has or hasn't come to fruition yet (which obviously they're saving the full reveal for the climax).

Quote:
I think many people understood that Kokoro Connect was going to take the body swapping seriously and use it explore the characters, and many people had already guessed Yui's problem.
More like the minority, as the post count has suggested. Really jarring when you compare it to the post eps 3 discussion in Kokoro Connect.

Quote:
I still think it's a stretch to say Kokoro Connect was all light-hearted until episode 3.
I didn't say it was, only that the vast majority of it since they only dropped a hint or two that could've went either way in episode 2.
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Old 2012-07-27, 16:00   Link #430
Kaoru Chujo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
Meh, Koichoco isn't really much about totally about character drama, unlike Kokoro Connect....
And that's the main reason I have struggled to find any interest in this show, while loving Kokoro Connect from the start. I did have the advantage there of having read the manga up to the equivalent of ep2. I do think that we knew from the beginning that that show would be strong on characters, since the characters were strong from the beginning, but we didn't see the dark and serious side until into ep2.

Even the very straightforward harem show NakaImo seems to me to have more character interest than this show, so far. At least the characters seem to have feelings.

Heck, I'm finding Ebiten more enjoyable than this show, even two episodes in, and with only Chinese subs to go by. I just don't feel the humour here, and the development seems plodding, to me.

But that's just me. Sorry to be negative. I'm still watching, hoping things will start to click for me.
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Old 2012-07-27, 16:11   Link #431
Haak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
All I said was that KoiChoco established its identity in episode 1, while Kokoro Connect took 3. Wasn't even comparing them to be the same type of anime. :shrug:
Yes but different types of anime will often have different types of storytelling and that includes how it establishes it's identity

Quote:
It's shaping up quite nicely I must say. You've got the series now focusing on the Election part, but the Koi love triangle is starting to creep up because of it (damn you Satsuki! XD), and the Choco backstory is tied to Chisato on why her Koi has or hasn't come to fruition yet (which obviously they're saving the full reveal for the climax).
These are all rather superfluous at the moment. I wouldn't say it's established itself quite well yet. I dodn't even realise there was a love triangle forming. I just thought Oojima was raising flags like normal. And I had no idea that her Choco phobia is tied to her obvious romance with Oojima that way.

Quote:
More like the minority, as the post count has suggested. Really jarring when you compare it to the post eps 3 discussion in Kokoro Connect.
That's probably because Episode 3 is when it actually started happening when Episode 2 was mostly foreshadowing. There are definitely far less that thought it would still be light-hearted compared to those that already figured what the focus would be.

Quote:
I didn't say it was, only that the vast majority of it since they only dropped a hint or two that could've went either way in episode 2.
Oh I got confused because of your earlier post...

But no I don't think it could've gone either way. Heartseed definitely put a very sombre spin on things, Yui's hints were easy to spot (and were unlikely to be taken lightly) and Iori sealed the deal with her grim philosophical talk on what would happen to their identities. And of course the preview definitely helped.
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Old 2012-07-27, 16:18   Link #432
DXMichael
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Aww man, I felt really bad at the end of this episode Whhhyy did they have to leave us with that depressing scene D= I wanted someone to comfort her or help her or something XD I hope this anime perks up next episode and that girl gets treated much better.
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Old 2012-07-27, 17:49   Link #433
Haak
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For what it's worth I am interested in how the show will handle class warfare. That last scene saved it for me and it certainly piqued my curiosity.
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Old 2012-07-27, 18:33   Link #434
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Regarding the cohesion of elements in this show, based on the way the story has been presented so far, I would suggest that all the plot threads are heading in their own directions, but are ultimately on a collision course. I think it won't be until that collision occurs that you'll see the way the elements connect and the show will really deliver its message. In the meantime, I think they will continue to introduce a lot of different ideas on all fronts, setting the stage for the collision to come. This may make the story a little bit hard to follow (since there is a lot to keep track of), but I suspect that it will all make sense in the end (and it'll be the sort of show that you will understand differently during a re-watch).

I wouldn't say this is either a better or worse approach overall, but it is a bit different compared to some other shows. The key thing they have to try to do is keep you hooked enough to stay interested in where they're going.
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Old 2012-07-27, 20:01   Link #435
amoirsp
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I will have to say I have to agree with those that are saying Koichoco has a weakness of being diluted on multiple concepts.

While it's good to have thoughts on many things shown, as there are a quite a number of them, in a pure anime watching standpoint there's uncertainty if there is a clear picture. On a random note this totally reminds me of like, one of the Iron Man Marvel cartoons where episode 1 starts right into the action and for a new viewer it doesn't make sense but it does if you have all the backstory information.

Well, in terms of studio production I'm guessing they need to balance momentum/linearity with new watchers and watchers familiar with the game. So far I find it functional, and as I've stated before, in terms of the anime making it such that I want to know more or what happens next, it's doing fine. However likewise I can't help but also say the dilution also makes me unsure what is going to happen next (or why it was shown), hence the disjointed feeling of the things going on.

I DO like how the presentation of this VN adaptation, while having a massive number of similarities to other ones, I do find it does have something particularly different. Just something about it makes me enjoy it particularly more. I won't go as far as to say it's realistic but it does make me think and wonder.

Pretty much these episodes will require subsequent ones to bring closure or explain things, because as standalones there are very many question marks.

This isn't spoiler but I do want to ask
Spoiler:


... or basically whatever relentlessflame said, yes I find it's going this direction. Ironically this method of hooking ALSO dissuades viewers that prefer a different format.

But to add to the relentless point: I do find it amusing that Satsuki literally says to Oojima/Hazuki that the things she does for one end (elections) are separate (or different reasons) from other things she does (private matters or finance stuff). I personally find this particular pointer key.

If you've noticed, as you all obviously have, I felt like Oojima has been "carried" through the adventure. The disbanding is a sudden event that shakes the daily (club) routine. The nomination was forced/recommended on him, the load was pretty much put on him. Two pretty girls literally ramming into him. Yume wants him, other men crashed into him. Oojima roll cooking assignment was put on him.


I think my only complaint is that these characters actually have adequate strengths (as they are indeed in an elite school) but since we got right into the action there wasn't really much of a setup to really say who is good at what. Like, Oojima can cook a unique Oojima Roll [However, yes the episode spent like 30 seconds explaining it's exquisite flavor]. But it's like well, I don't recall them mentioning Oojima can cook.

In other words I'm finding a lot of things implied (intellect, capability, other strengths), and then verifying these strengths through actions and events. It's pretty good but it seems to be set up at the same time it is used.

Spoiler:


Likewise, because this was a pre-existing club, I don't feel like I see this much. (Usually series that have clubs are either forming them or if there isn't a club then there's some invincibility or hot impact complex from protag encountering super powerful lead girl or protag joining some club of prestigious elites)

I do really like the election planning and math. The series has adequately shown good fundamentals on that aspect. It shows teamwork and setting up roles for all different types of characters utilizing strengths and accommodating for weaknesses.

Yes, I have had to re-watch, despite re-watching already. So many elements are so subtle. Now I'm like omg is one cour enough to explain all the possible combinations?

For now I'll just think they'll run with four things for now: Election, and 3 character dedicated episodes to Michiru, Isara, and Satsuki to resolves portions already shown. I have no idea what it would be for Michiru, while Isara's is a bit more obvious. Satsuki, well, she directly influences the plot (election opponent) so I don't know.

It's also interesting how many underhanded or unknown things are going on behind the scenes, and the food research club is totally third party in relation to it.

Spoiler:


Yeah ... sooooo many things going on, and there's hardly any delving to specific character backstories! (Beginning components maybe, but hardly much after that). I find this series very interesting thus far and can't wait to see what will happen next!
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Old 2012-07-27, 20:20   Link #436
novalysis
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It's all very interesting, but with only 13 episodes to play around with, the last half may end up feeling very rushed. Too many interesting stories and concepts being thrown around, too little time to develop them properly.

If this was 26 episodes, then I'd say that the pacing feels just right. But 4 episodes in, out of a total of 13, and the beginning of new character plot-threads is quite a worrying sign, for a one Cour anime. It seems like there's alot of material to go on in the background, enough for 26 episodes, which has to be compressed into 13. For example, I don't even think there is time to explore the relationship between the Yuuki and the Club Adviser, beyond hints.
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Old 2012-07-27, 20:25   Link #437
hyl
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To be fair though when it comes to VN's, the character development of the heroines usually start in their own specific stories and not in the "common route".
Spoiler for comparison of the story in general to its relative location in the game:

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2012-07-28 at 09:43. Reason: clearer spoiler tag label
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Old 2012-07-27, 23:53   Link #438
Kirito
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Great episode, but seeing Aomi suffer like that is really unfair specially towards someone who has done nothing wrong and get persecuted for unfair selfish reasons. It sucks we don't see enough of Aomi to understand her personality, granted I haven't played the game, but let me get back on this in an anime sense. based on what I've seen/observed.

This episode made it clear that Aomi's a heroine that can be sympathized with because of the way she's horrendously treated because her status at the school. It's clear that she's poor, and works in a factory to maintain an education and provide for her family, and it pains her so much because she'll willingly to put up with this mistreatment for siblings it seems. Just watching her at the end, accompanied by dramatic music, during the episode really just kills me inside, and I really hope that she'll have the courage to ask for help and for someone to help her get through this.

All and all, excellent episode, don't care much for politics but the campaign is going smoothly for Oojima and the rest of the club members...for now, but Aomi I hope someone helps her. People can be cruel especially towards those who work hard for a noble goal and because of one's status. I know it's to add drama for the series, but she doesn't deserve this.
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Old 2012-07-28, 05:16   Link #439
NoemiChan
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Funny, but the Posters are more like a Campaign for next Anime Idol.
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Old 2012-07-28, 12:00   Link #440
tsunade666
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I had little time but still manage to watch it and still manage to comment and made a review of it. The episode itself is fun with still the election campaign in full throttle with the different strategy to won over the voters and different means to fund the campaign. I liked that part but the one I liked the most is their is more to Satsuki's manifesto and a hidden (a bit) of darkness into the story.

Bullying. One thing that totally pisses me of. The last part with the girls and the middle part with the boys pisses me of. The guys saying bad things and the girls even doing such physical harassment. That angers me and also the end part with her in the corridor. That's really sad.... it hits my heart that I even think of playing the game (if not for it being a moon rune game -_-)

I want to see next episode on how will he handle this new hurdle to his campaign as a president because his initial reason to stop the disbandment of club seems shallow for me and I will full on support Shinonome-san on her goal.
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