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Old 2012-07-27, 19:15   Link #4701
Eeni
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Purdys, that looks like a fanfic waiting to happen (maybe it already is..?)... and if written properly, I would totally back it! It could be better then FT!

Looking through the Pixiv site, I found this other sketch:
http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.p...ust_id=9874129
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Old 2012-07-27, 20:28   Link #4702
FalsePrime
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I got to say, while FT is certainly not what I wanted for a follow up the Fan art makes me all the happier that FT exists.

Honestly the art in both Glory and Frozen is fabulous and Wing has never looked as beautiful as it does now and even if the story doesn't pick up and get better I will still follow it (plus I don't think it's as bad as many seem to) if only to see more awesome Wing art.
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Old 2012-07-27, 21:33   Link #4703
susyia
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yeah the pictures are great but i prefer low images and a good history like battlefield of pacifists
preventer 5 is interesting and cool more than the rest of history FT
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Old 2012-07-27, 21:38   Link #4704
Deacon Blues
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For the sake of clarity:

http://french.about.com/library/media/wavs/19.wav

:P
__________________
「では、人間は、何故、戦うのか?
戦うことに存在意義があるのかもしれない。
戦っている人間には充実感がある。
そして、戦っている人間が汚れて見えないのも事実だ」

So why do people fight, anyway?
Perhaps the meaning of existence lies within their will to fight.
People feel a sense of accomplishment through battle.
And itís also a fact that the ones actually fighting are never perceived as being tainted.
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Old 2012-07-28, 00:26   Link #4705
Purdys99
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I had no idea his name was french for 19. Thanks for the clarification.

I will admit the art is the saving grace for this continuation. I've barely posted 6 times and all I've done is moan moan moan. I'm probably not going to be popular if I keep doing that :S.

Its just frustrating for me. By definition, I wouldn't even call myself a real GW fan b/c I've barely watched the series due to it barely holding my attention for 10 mins straight. Honestly, the only thing I really genuinely liked watching was EW b/c the plot was understandable and the pace was just exciting enough not to put me to sleep.

I like GW for the character designs (though cookie cutter as it may be), and well, the actual characters, even though I've heavily criticized on how underdeveloped they are.

Though I know GW is suppose to be a plot driven show that focuses on the complexities and philosophy of war, peace, and everything in between, I heavily believed that a good plot should only be matched by good characters. Therefore, even if say you have the greatest, most original plot in the world, if the characters and relationships are boring, we're not going to give a damn. In actuality, and this is probably due to personal preference, if I had to chose, I'd rather have complex interesting characters over a complex plot any day.

That's why I LOVED the Episode Zero and Ground Zero Mangas (even with the latter not being canon though I really wish it would be). I also count EW as a saving grace as well. The movie and the books actually put context around the characters and had them interacting with one another, so we finally understood why they are the way they are. They made them endearing and engaging, hence we care about the plight they are going through.

GW the show, and FT are like big fat teases. They dangle what seem to be really interesting characters but refuse to give us an actual moment of depth and intimacy with them, and instead just hash out the same cookie cutter archetypes we've seen in the 20 previous Gundam series.

I know that the Gundam franchise is very much like Transformers and that supposedly, the main focus is suppose to be on the Gundams, the machines, the tech, etc. Maybe its b/c I'm a girl, but I don't freaking care! To me, when Gundams fight, its just a bunch of giant bodies of metal crashing into one another. I don't find that fascinating. As for the actual substance concerning war/peace philosophies, its all well in good if you have interesting characters to represent them. As the saying goes, the medium is the message. Characters are the mediums used to act out the plot and represent whatever symbolism or message you want to get through; so if the characters aren't interesting, what they do or say won't be either.

Philosophical debates and giant robots are all well in good, but if you don't have interesting characters to back it up, you might as well stick me in a philosophy and/or car mechanics class where I'll be bored out of my mind.

So all in all, I really like GW more for what it can be and not for what it is. It does a good enough job that I actually like the characters to keep me coming back for more, if not only to be dissapointed again =.=. But oh well, the art is kick ass and as bad as the melodrama is, I do love melodrama.
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Old 2012-07-28, 00:49   Link #4706
Deacon Blues
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There's actually an interesting followup in the end of the Endless Waltz novel by Sumizawa. Apparently Mariemaia (at least I'm assuming, as I haven't followed up on the quote he's reference in the work or if he's poking jest at it) counters Relena's "Weapons aren't necessary" or whatever schtick she's carrying by saying "Cars can be used to kill people. A fork or a knife can too" for that matter. Or something along those lines.

I found that interesting.
__________________
「では、人間は、何故、戦うのか?
戦うことに存在意義があるのかもしれない。
戦っている人間には充実感がある。
そして、戦っている人間が汚れて見えないのも事実だ」

So why do people fight, anyway?
Perhaps the meaning of existence lies within their will to fight.
People feel a sense of accomplishment through battle.
And itís also a fact that the ones actually fighting are never perceived as being tainted.
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Old 2012-07-28, 01:22   Link #4707
Purdys99
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Oh???

And what was Relena's response? Please tell me she had one! I could never stand it when someone, like Dorothy who would point out the most obvious flaw in her total pacifist approach always managed to avoid the topic.
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Old 2012-07-28, 11:32   Link #4708
Deacon Blues
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I got my copy of Gundam Ace today! Yippee!

26 pages for the Glory of Losers manga.

Ugh. Looks like we're gonna have a lot of emo Trowa moments with "This is my last stage" bullcrap. Heavyarms has a hell of a flight unit attached to it and he attacks some transports near the Baikal base.

Onto Frozen Teardrop:

Wow, Trowa is a total asshole now. Mariemaia is like "omg your name is Trowa, right?!" and he's all like "Yeah but not the trowa you think." Basically she's Mariemaia Barton now, she's done away with the Khushrenada name. She tries telling him she's happy he's going by the Barton name and that it helps her that someone is using the name. She says she'll call him by that from now and he's like "Nope, you can't, sorry."

She asks why.

He tells her that 1, he doesn't really like the name. 2, he hates the Barton foundation. 3, maybe he won't give his name to anyone anymore.

Mariemaia gives him a slightly sad face and says "oh..."

*claps* BRILLIANT! Being a cuntmuffin to an 8 year old child. Bravo Trowa!
__________________
「では、人間は、何故、戦うのか?
戦うことに存在意義があるのかもしれない。
戦っている人間には充実感がある。
そして、戦っている人間が汚れて見えないのも事実だ」

So why do people fight, anyway?
Perhaps the meaning of existence lies within their will to fight.
People feel a sense of accomplishment through battle.
And itís also a fact that the ones actually fighting are never perceived as being tainted.
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Old 2012-07-28, 11:43   Link #4709
Meltyred
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Trowa just bullied a 8 year old Child after not piloting gundam for abit....
Oh dear, the withdrawal symptoms are bad.
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Old 2012-07-28, 11:46   Link #4710
IkuzeMinna
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purdys99 View Post
GW the show, and FT are like big fat teases. They dangle what seem to be really interesting characters but refuse to give us an actual moment of depth and intimacy with them, and instead just hash out the same cookie cutter archetypes we've seen in the 20 previous Gundam series.
I absolutely agree with the part I put in bold. There is glaring lack of focus on the characters themselves and their relationships. Whatever interaction we get is usually either buried under philosophical messages or symbolism, impeded by the writers' inability to write sane characters of different sex (namely Heero and Relena) or is so minuscule, you hardly notice. But the thing is, it's there. You just have to look for it. Hard.

The best example I can think of is the relationship between Duo and Trowa. Yes, there is one.
Duo has a number of good reasons to at least dislike the guy; he showered him with missiles when they first met, blew up his Gundam, threw him into jail and even punched him. But is Duo mad at Trowa when they meet again in space? No, he's relieved. He even feels depressed that Trowa lost his memories. Furthermore, he even goes through the trouble of "saving the guy who destroyed [his] partner," proving that no, he did not forget what Trowa had done to him but he wasn't holding a grudge either. Fast forward a few episodes when Trowa gets his memories back and what do we see them do? Play chess and generally look like they're buddies. What really drives the point home for me is when they part on Libra and Duo apologizes to him for having to leave him alone. He thinks "don't get yourself killed" and Trowa thinks back "you, too Duo."

What we can piece together from all this is that Duo himself is not a person to hold grudges but is very forgiving. Heck, he's pretty hard to offend in the first place. When Trowa fires missiles at him again in EW, Duo looked like he genuinely believed he'd die there. But when they meet up again instead of going "Dude! This is the second time!" or "What the heck is wrong with you?!", the only thing he does is jokingly remark that there's nothing wrong with helping a friend in need. Completely unrelated.
He's also very companionable. Looking at Trowa's character, it's likelier Duo asked him for that game of chess than the other way around. I also find it funny that Wu Fei was hanging with them and offering advice. Duo sure gets along with people, eh? Even with Wu Fei. The guy is brusque but he never makes any demeaning comments, especially not toward Duo, which is why I roll my eyes whenever I see it in FT. Anyway.

Trowa gets character development, too (of the funny kind). When Heero knocks Duo out in EW, he hands him over to Trowa and instead of letting Duo plop onto the ground or something, Trowa actually lifts him to his shoulder before handing him over again. No big deal, you say. But do you remember how he first treated a half-dead Heero when he self-destructed? Yeah, major development there. xD

I guess GW displays an extreme case of "show, don't tell" (which understandably isn't many people's cup of tea) and I'm honestly not sure if the writers were fully aware of it or not, but to me at least the characters come off as thought out extremely well. They all act differently, as real people would (note: "as," not "like"). When every single action of theirs, as mundane as it is, can be taken as a hint of what sort of person they are (due to lack of clarification, no doubt), resulting in a potential multitude of personalities in the entire cast (as implied as they are), I'll view it as good writing. Or rather, I'll view it as having put effort into it instead of just going the easy way and shoehorning them into stereotypes. Even if it's still anything but sufficient.
For example, Duo is not a loud-mouthed idiot. While he's usually "the funny guy," he's not cracking jokes every opportunity he gets. In fact, when the other pilots were more or less poking fun at Heero running off to save Relena from Libra, it was Duo who killed the mood by reminding them of the stakes.
And even the most random Alliance or OZ soldier will get a moment of reflection, even if his screentime is limited to half a minute, to show that he's not just brainless cannon fodder. I like that.

To tell the truth, the "cookie cutter archetype" is the only part in your statement I can't grasp. I admit, I haven't seen many Gundam series but from what I understood, GW was supposed to be the exact opposite of MSG in terms of premise; instead of having a civilian be turned into a soldier, you start off with a fully trained assassin regaining his humanity somewhere along the way. Instead of fighting in an army, the GW pilots are terrorists fighting against it. And instead of (initially) fighting for self-defense, the GW pilots are usually the ones initiating attacks. I'm generally hard-pressed to find comparable characters to the GW pilots from any anime...

Anyway, make no mistake, I'm very grateful myself Episode Zero exists because without it, I wouldn't enjoy the characters half as much as I do now and should an episode exist that revolves entirely around a day in school for Heero with no action whatsoever, it would probably be my favorite, because as much as I'm praising the versatility of characters, I, too, would like for GW to stop being such a tease, as you put it, and just give me some clear character interaction without any symbolic implications or weird writing or whatever. Which is why I adore the Blind Target CD drama.
The only instance I can think of in the series is the infamous helmet scene, in which not only Relena and Heero act sane (as opposed to their initial scenes >_>) but their characters, meaning the people they are, are at the fore, not the ideologies they represent. Heero pulling Relena close and talking to her in a soft voice does absolutely nothing to enforce the notion of him wanting to bring about peace. Likewise, Relena yelling at him because she's afraid he'll throw away his life and calling after him in such desperation it borders agony when he takes off, does not necessarily contribute to her image of being a humanitarian but rather shows that she's highly concerned about the young man she's known for a year and who just implied is willing to die for her sake.
Now, I would like to point out at this part that whatever Heero meant by saying "to protect you and the Earth sphere," Relena did not take Heero's words as any kind of declaration of affection toward her. What she was thinking was that Heero was going on a suicide mission, as she later told Sally. Even when he was looking at her like this:



His face still creeps me out to this day.

Anyway. This scene is sort of special because it is tacked on and rather out of character for Heero. If one pays attention, in episode 47 Heero is shown boarding Zero and closing its hatch. Then comes episode 48, the creators suddenly remember that they only have two episodes left and the shippers on board sort of retcon ep 47 to give us this.

Personally, I think that if GW had additional 20 episodes to pan out the plot and flesh out the characters and if the writers hadn't been so focused on making Relena's and Heero's relationship not-romantic-but-not-really-platonic-either resulting in all sorts of cliff-yelling weirdness, it could've been a lot better. I'm also saddened by how much GW suffered from it's horrid production schedule. If you aren't ten, most battles are downright boring when compared to the impressive battle choreography Seed or 00 sport for example. When Duo flew the scientists through the supposedly full battlefield, I was like "okay, whatever." Only in EW do you get to see what is was intended to look like when him and Heero infiltrate X18999. Though I must say, as far as battles go, EW's fighting is still rather tame compared to others, like Unicorn or Seed or 00. It's not as frenzied.

Anyway, I can't really blame anyone for not wanting to go through the series numerous times to grasp every meaning because, while I don't really have a problem with it, it is horribly paced, the plot is too big to fit into 47 episodes (which is why you have to watch GW thrice to get it), the wording at parts is downright confusing because the creators are trying to cram entire ideologies into single sentences and if you aren't paying attention, the characters may come off as severely bland. And there's also the little matter of having to ignore certain things because no one knows what the creators were smoking that day...
Nonetheless, GW has incredible potential and is well worth the time needed to understand it. True, you have to fill a lot of gaps yourself but GW was never a show to spoon-feed its audience, so from here on it's personal preference. But I will not concede to GW having a bad plot or one-dimensional characters or whatever else there is that people wrongly accuse it for. You can argue about the execution but not its core.

And before anyone asks, I have no idea why I'm babbling so much.

EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deacon Blues View Post
*claps* BRILLIANT! Being a cuntmuffin to an 8 year old child. Bravo Trowa!
LOL I can't really say it's out of character because Trowa really is a jerk to people he doesn't like (just look at how much crap Lady Une had to take from him) but funnily enough, I had expected him to be nice to children at least. Guess not. xD

Also thanks for the translation, Deacon. Wu Fei trashing expensive equipment to knock people out had me laugh my head off. You'd think a martial artist would use his own body. If only there weren't that silly bickering...

Last edited by IkuzeMinna; 2012-08-01 at 13:46.
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Old 2012-07-28, 11:49   Link #4711
FalsePrime
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Wow. Not that I have a problem with him not liking the name. Even in Endless Waltz it seemed like he kept it more for Quatre/Duo/Friends then he did for any other reason. Still being that much of an asshole to a 8 year is both funny and extremely sad.
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Old 2012-07-28, 12:30   Link #4712
susyia
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i don't think the author understand the characters... Trowa is not that not in a million of years... when he chats with Dorothy at the end of the series when she defeated quatre even that time He was not rude.....
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Old 2012-07-28, 13:14   Link #4713
Deacon Blues
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IkuzeMinna View Post
Also thanks for the translation, Deacon. Wu Fei trashing expensive equipment to knock people out had me laugh my head off. You'd think a martial artist would use his own body. If only there weren't that silly bickering...
Funny though... the devices they use, I suppose, are probably that cane thing that Duo used when jumping out of the building. They say they resemble crutches and that's the same thing that he had...

*ponders*
__________________
「では、人間は、何故、戦うのか?
戦うことに存在意義があるのかもしれない。
戦っている人間には充実感がある。
そして、戦っている人間が汚れて見えないのも事実だ」

So why do people fight, anyway?
Perhaps the meaning of existence lies within their will to fight.
People feel a sense of accomplishment through battle.
And itís also a fact that the ones actually fighting are never perceived as being tainted.
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Old 2012-07-28, 13:19   Link #4714
Rising Dragon
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You mean that... beam helicopter scythe thing...?
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Old 2012-07-28, 13:43   Link #4715
Purdys99
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Originally Posted by Eeni View Post
Purdys, that looks like a fanfic waiting to happen (maybe it already is..?)... and if written properly, I would totally back it! It could be better then FT!
Thanks for the encouragement Eeni. But I'm afraid I've retired from fanfic writing long time ago U.U. lol.
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Old 2012-07-28, 14:19   Link #4716
Purdys99
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Originally Posted by Deacon Blues View Post
I got my copy of Gundam Ace today! Yippee!

26 pages for the Glory of Losers manga.

Ugh. Looks like we're gonna have a lot of emo Trowa moments with "This is my last stage" bullcrap. Heavyarms has a hell of a flight unit attached to it and he attacks some transports near the Baikal base.
Hmmm....Well, Glory of Losers is the retelling of GW, right? I'll forgive Trowa for that b/c at the BEGINNING of GW, he was in fact very emo and very curt and rude. Remember his first interaction with Quatre where Quatre was basically jumping up and down, all smiles like a puppy that was making his first friend and Trowa was all "I work alone, talk to the hand!" LOL. By the end, Trowa's grown much kinder and gentler at having to nurse Heero back to health, getting 'killed', losing his memory, connecting with Catherine and the Circus, regaining his memory and so on and so forth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deacon Blues View Post
Onto Frozen Teardrop:

Wow, Trowa is a total asshole now. Mariemaia is like "omg your name is Trowa, right?!" and he's all like "Yeah but not the trowa you think." Basically she's Mariemaia Barton now, she's done away with the Khushrenada name. She tries telling him she's happy he's going by the Barton name and that it helps her that someone is using the name. She says she'll call him by that from now and he's like "Nope, you can't, sorry."

She asks why.

He tells her that 1, he doesn't really like the name. 2, he hates the Barton foundation. 3, maybe he won't give his name to anyone anymore.

Mariemaia gives him a slightly sad face and says "oh..."

*claps* BRILLIANT! Being a cuntmuffin to an 8 year old child. Bravo Trowa!
Whoa, hold up! HOW CAN MARIEMAIA BE 8?!?! This is FT right? And its 20 to 30 years into their future? How can she be 8??? Is this a flashback of some kind???

I can understanding Trowa telling Mariemaia that harsh truth. I don't think he's the type to lie unless it was for a mission. However, I would think he'd be more gentle in his delivery especially to a child and after his character arc of learning to connect with people and all. For God's sake, he worked at the circus, he was probably surrounded by kids wanting his autograph =.=. Dumbass. (not you, Trowa ^^


Quote:
Originally Posted by Deacon Blues View Post
There's actually an interesting followup in the end of the Endless Waltz novel by Sumizawa. Apparently Mariemaia (at least I'm assuming, as I haven't followed up on the quote he's reference in the work or if he's poking jest at it) counters Relena's "Weapons aren't necessary" or whatever schtick she's carrying by saying "Cars can be used to kill people. A fork or a knife can too" for that matter. Or something along those lines.

I found that interesting.
What was Relena's response? :O I'd really like to know.
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Old 2012-07-28, 15:29   Link #4717
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Purdy....this is Preventer 5. It is filling in the gap between Endless Waltz and Frozen Teardrop. This has been going on for like 4 months or so.
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Old 2012-07-28, 16:15   Link #4718
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Originally Posted by Tendou Souji View Post
Purdy....this is Preventer 5. It is filling in the gap between Endless Waltz and Frozen Teardrop. This has been going on for like 4 months or so.
What is this? I was following posts here but I didn't notice! Is it a manga or a novel? & is it different from EW GoL? & what does "5" refer to? Is it the number of chapters? & are they summarized here?
Sorry for the so many questions ,still I need answers .
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Old 2012-07-28, 16:33   Link #4719
Tendou Souji
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Originally Posted by rereremo View Post
What is this? I was following posts here but I didn't notice! Is it a manga or a novel? & is it different from EW GoL? & what does "5" refer to? Is it the number of chapters? & are they summarized here?
Sorry for the so many questions ,still I need answers .
EDITED

It is Frozen Teardrop. Preventer 5 was originally a Wing manga without an ending. Frozen Teardrop is adapting it to fill in the void as to why Relena and Heero were frozen. Preventer 5 is basically exactly what Frozen Teardrop is adapting right now. Cinq Kingdom is taken over by Epyon de Tiros who want a bunch of demands and will detonate a nuke within 24 hours if their demands aren't met. Sally and Wufei gather the others to stop them. Duo in Frozen Teardrop kind of plays into how he was in Preventer 5. Hilde tells Sally that Duo is always leaving her without telling where he is going in Preventer 5.

In fact Frozen Teardrop did an amazing job of adapting it.
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Old 2012-07-28, 22:31   Link #4720
DuoRanger
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Originally Posted by Eeni View Post
Purdys, that looks like a fanfic waiting to happen (maybe it already is..?)... and if written properly, I would totally back it! It could be better then FT!

Looking through the Pixiv site, I found this other sketch:
http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.p...ust_id=9874129
Why they cant remove the Yaoi trap! and put sumething more serious on Wing Fanarts and Fanfics(rage off)

Ontopic:

here's my little rant about about this:

after seeing some things about TF and Preventer 9, its looks like Sumizaya is trying to Pull out a Grant Morrison on FT and P9, Trowa/Triton Bullying with a 8(far as i remember, marimeia has 10 or 12 years old in EW) years old kid like a jerk, Heero is Wolverine!, and sally is prommising something "special" for duo after this mission.
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