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Old 2012-07-29, 05:29   Link #61
sky black swordman
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Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
So we have no idea how old Sachi was then?
I think she was older then Kirito.
Didn't Keita they were in high school.
So how old was Kirito when he was traped in SAO?
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Old 2012-07-29, 05:30   Link #62
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The Black Cats were high school students, friends and classmates in real life (computer club?), so with Kirito being 14 at the start, Sachi was at least 16, so there is a gap between 2-4 years.
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Old 2012-07-29, 05:33   Link #63
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Originally Posted by Awrya View Post
The Black Cats were high school students, friends and classmates in real life (computer club?), so with Kirito being 14 at the start, Sachi was at least 16, so there is a gap between 2-4 years.
So I was right then . Then does this not throw what others were saying about Kirito seeing Sachi as his little sister thing.
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Old 2012-07-29, 06:38   Link #64
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Kirito was a 2nd year middle school student upon entering SAO, I believe. Despite his youthfulness however most characters are clueless about his age: while he looks young, he acts very mature for his age. He doesn't really have the perverted side most of the males in SAO have and his interpersonal skills are "supposedly" extremely poor (his own words), yet he somehow knows how to say the right things at the right time..
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Old 2012-07-29, 06:38   Link #65
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Maybe maybe is was due to her nature, timid girl who depends on others? Kirito did have to keep telling her she won't die, which coincides with how the oldest sibling looks after younger ones?
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Old 2012-07-29, 07:08   Link #66
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Originally Posted by styr View Post
Kirito was a 2nd year middle school student upon entering SAO, I believe. Despite his youthfulness however most characters are clueless about his age: while he looks young, he acts very mature for his age. He doesn't really have the perverted side most of the males in SAO have and his interpersonal skills are "supposedly" extremely poor (his own words), yet he somehow knows how to say the right things at the right time..
I think Kirito confused a natural tendency to be an introvert with Social Incompetence. Kirito is socially competent, indeed very much so, but he is very socially inexperienced, and a strongly introverted person. That's why he THINKS he has poor interpersonal skills. He is wrong, and in other words, he is an unreliable narrator when it comes to himself.

A close comparison would be Kyon's continuous protestations of his lack of intellect and book dumbness, which his narrative seems to directly contradict.

But Kirtio is an aloof figure. I think it's interesting that SAO takes us into the mind of an aloof, silent but highly intelligent and quite socially competent introvert - very few of it's ilk really seriously explore such a concept. I don't understand why do people castigate him as a generic shounen protagonist, when it's clear that he is far from one - he lacks "idiocy", he lacks "hot-bloodedness", he's not a shining idealist . Anyone who argues that Kirito is one has no case at all in my view- for some reason, I get very, very irritated at people who claim that, often with a minimal amount of substantiation.

Part of the problem with the adaptation is that SAO is very heavily narrative driven. Right now (RNR and Aria/Beater was the worst example), the SAO story-telling when it comes to Kirito is like how Haruhi Suzumiya would be like if you axe out all of Kyon's monologues.

Kirito monologues. Alot. The anime sadly fails to capture that internal thought process of his.
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Old 2012-07-29, 07:38   Link #67
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snip
Not a fan of Haruhi so anything you said about it is over my head. I have read the majority of the SAO volumes except Vol 7/9.

I am indeed aware that most of Kirito's thoughs are monologue and as such is very hard to cram all of it into the anime and there isn't anything wrong with it. As another introverted person I can totally sympathize with him. Most likely his time in SAO profoundly changed him and as a result his interpersonal skills vastly improved. What did Kirito call them, outside system skills? Basically like that, remember the Sugu/Kirito duel in the dojo? While his sword skills weren't totally applicable in the real world w/o system assist, they certainly gave him a huge step up considering how skilled his cousin is. Plus he's a total badass in the ALO arc and I can't wait to see Lyfa's slack jawed stare as Kirito wrecks everything.
Spoiler for ALO spoilers:


If you want to bash people who call Kirito a typical shounen hero however, you are talking to the wrong person my friend... I personally find Kirito refreshing from the typical clumsy idiot *cough* hero who gropes every girl possible but is still secretly desired by them all despite having few if any likable traits, etc etc etc. Thankfully, Kirito rarely if ever qualifies as a standard shounen hero/protagonist.
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Old 2012-07-29, 07:56   Link #68
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Kirito gets bonus points in my book for beingmquite genre savvy, more so than most other shounen heroes. Note him realising that Argo was certainly going to see Asuna and his immediate plan to get the hell away, and his thought process when Asuna crashed into him - he first had a calm oh crap when he realised he'd been groping her, and then began to panic when he realised that he couldn't remember any of the placating statements he'd prepared in advance, anticipating he'd be in this situation.

And also his reasons for leaving behind Freya in Caliber, though Klein managed to turn that around.
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Old 2012-07-29, 08:58   Link #69
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Well, Kirito is a very dangerous man to cross. I think the LNs somehow convey that better, but then again, we are only four episodes in.
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Old 2012-07-29, 11:41   Link #70
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So, I picked up [Red-nosed Reindeer] and read it to find out why VN reader were so rage about its adaption........

Ah.....now I understand. The last part (Sachi message to Kirito) is *100 better than in anime. O love her a lot more now ^^

However.......I think the part that Kirito stay with [Black Cats of the Full Moon] was presented better in anime. In novel, it feel so emply.....especially the part where Sachi died made me "Wait, did she just died???" insted of feeling sad like in anime.

I don't know why...maybe because all of them were showed in narrative style in novel. I expected a lot of more conversation between guild members in novel version but to find out that most of it was a narrative from Kirito view point is eh.......disappoint. So, I will say anime did a good job in this part.
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Old 2012-07-29, 15:08   Link #71
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I'm a big fan of Sachi mostly because Haqua.. err, Saori Hayami voiced her. A part of me wanted her to whip out a scythe for a weapon! I imagine the reason why she didn't sing Red-nosed Reindeer was for one of two reasons: Either she couldn't sing in English very good, or it would've cost the studio more money to hire her for the single episode role she has. Humming would be much easier(read: cheaper) for a seiyuu than singing.

Sachi also used an invisibility cloak in the LN when Kirito came upon her in the sewer, which apparently made her impossible to find without Kirito's tracking skill. Too bad she didn't whip it out in the trap room!
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Old 2012-07-29, 19:54   Link #72
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As I was saying before many people said that Sachi was something of a substitute for for his Little sister who he missed and develop a Siscon for.

But Sachi was older.And because Keita told Kirito around the time he ask him to join that they were in high school.
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Old 2012-07-29, 20:51   Link #73
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Originally Posted by sky black swordman View Post
As I was saying before many people said that Sachi was something of a substitute for for his Little sister who he missed and develop a Siscon for.

But Sachi was older.And because Keita told Kirito around the time he ask him to join that they were in high school.
Even though that is true about her age, there are also a few factors in play. Firstly, Kirito feels very bad about Suguha taking his place in Kendo. He talks about it with Silica and it obviously bothers him. Then he was also tripping because he had abandoned his first friend in SAO, Klein. At the time he joined Black Cats, it had been 5 months since the first day and the burden of 24/7 soloing was starting to weigh heavy.

The Black Cats to him had a family-like atmosphere and he wanted to protect that, due in part to his level being ~20 higher. Them being all club members from RL reinforced that family atmosphere. When Sachi went to Kirito for comfort, he responded back like any brother (big or little) would to a scared sister afraid of death. Of course she did die in the end.. and that just reinforced his way of thinking from before. They only partied for a little over a month I believe, he was lucky that it didn't last long enough for Sachi to take the next step in terms of "comfort" and then die.

Makes you wonder how different it would have been if he had told them about himself and his desire to whip them into shape to make it to the frontlines? If he had been upfront about himself and his skill/level they likely would have listened to him when he said wait/stop and been receptive to his strategies. I think Kirito really dug his friends' graves in the Black Cats, as bad as it sounds.
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Old 2012-07-29, 21:43   Link #74
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Even though that is true about her age, there are also a few factors in play. Firstly, Kirito feels very bad about Suguha taking his place in Kendo. He talks about it with Silica and it obviously bothers him. Then he was also tripping because he had abandoned his first friend in SAO, Klein. At the time he joined Black Cats, it had been 5 months since the first day and the burden of 24/7 soloing was starting to weigh heavy.

The Black Cats to him had a family-like atmosphere and he wanted to protect that, due in part to his level being ~20 higher. Them being all club members from RL reinforced that family atmosphere. When Sachi went to Kirito for comfort, he responded back like any brother (big or little) would to a scared sister afraid of death. Of course she did die in the end.. and that just reinforced his way of thinking from before. They only partied for a little over a month I believe, he was lucky that it didn't last long enough for Sachi to take the next step in terms of "comfort" and then die.
Makes you wonder how different it would have been if he had told them about himself and his desire to whip them into shape to make it to the frontlines? If he had been upfront about himself and his skill/level they likely would have listened to him when he said wait/stop and been receptive to his strategies. I think Kirito really dug his friends' graves in the Black Cats, as bad as it sounds.

Agreed on the first part
By "Comfort" you mean "physical comfort"as in .
On the last part I cant say because that would be speculation, On this part it then becames a question on how did the other memebers of The Black Cats feel about beaters? Keita even thought may have said "that" to Kirito in anger and rage may have a actually felt that way about them.
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Old 2012-07-29, 22:18   Link #75
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Agreed on the first part
By "Comfort" you mean "physical comfort"as in .
On the last part I cant say because that would be speculation, On this part it then becames a question on how did the other memebers of The Black Cats feel about beaters? Keita even thought may have said "that" to Kirito in anger and rage may have a actually felt that way about them.
By him hiding information he acted exactly like a beater and caused 70% of the guild to die in one room. Had he come forward about it after they had seen how nice he was and such they most likely wouldn't have cared. If anything I think most people would be glad to be taken under the wing of one of the elite players. The whole deception thing is probably what infuriated Keita.

How would you feel if all of your friends died and the guy you knew for a month who was with them when it happened came back to report their deaths? Then he reveals the only way he lived was because he was hiding his true strength. Most likely you would not be happy to say the least, although the suicide was a bit overly dramatic.

Even if they had kicked Kirito out of the guild for being a beater, they might have still died due to that foolish thief. Greed is one of the primary motivations in SAO after all.
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Old 2012-07-29, 22:45   Link #76
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By him hiding information he acted exactly like a beater and caused 70% of the guild to die in one room. Had he come forward about it after they had seen how nice he was and such they most likely wouldn't have cared. If anything I think most people would be glad to be taken under the wing of one of the elite players. The whole deception thing is probably what infuriated Keita.

How would you feel if all of your friends died and the guy you knew for a month who was with them when it happened came back to report their deaths? Then he reveals the only way he lived was because he was hiding his true strength. Most likely you would not be happy to say the least, although the suicide was a bit overly dramatic.

Even if they had kicked Kirito out of the guild for being a beater, they might have still died due to that foolish thief. Greed is one of the primary motivations in SAO after all.
I never said that Kirito did not have some part of the blame for their deaths.
He did hid the fact that he was a beater for sure and this lead to their deaths, however the one responsible was the one who open the chest that summoned the monsters. It was this character's greed.

And thats true. Like I said before this can only speculation, but to me keita is the only one to make his feelings on beaters known of course like I said before he may have said in hatred because of what happend to his friends.

If the fact that kirito was a beater got out to them I think some of the members would not be ok with this. Aside from Sachi who knew how strong Kirito was and IMO may have suspected he was a beater.

If they had kick out Kirito for being beater, one thing I can say is that Sachi would have gone with him.
Also By "physical comfort"a mean couple stuff like well you know. Is that what you meant "Comfort" .
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Old 2012-07-30, 14:40   Link #77
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So, I picked up [Red-nosed Reindeer] and read it to find out why VN reader were so rage about its adaption........

Ah.....now I understand. The last part (Sachi message to Kirito) is *100 better than in anime. O love her a lot more now ^^

However.......I think the part that Kirito stay with [Black Cats of the Full Moon] was presented better in anime. In novel, it feel so emply.....especially the part where Sachi died made me "Wait, did she just died???" insted of feeling sad like in anime.

I don't know why...maybe because all of them were showed in narrative style in novel. I expected a lot of more conversation between guild members in novel version but to find out that most of it was a narrative from Kirito view point is eh.......disappoint. So, I will say anime did a good job in this part.
That part was shown in the anime but only told about in the novel (and rather shortly described, at that), so it feels more real when you see it on screen. I actually think RNR was very well adapted though. The animators are on the right track, I just hope they don't lose their audience due to the episodic nature of the show, what with cramming all the side story prequels right into the first half of the anime.
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Old 2012-07-30, 15:03   Link #78
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Also By "physical comfort"a mean couple stuff like well you know. Is that what you meant "Comfort" .
Yeah, by "comfort" in quotes I mean sex. Let's do a hypothetically what if scenario: If Kirito had been able to save Sachi (and her alone) in the trap room, not only would she have been an emotional wreck from watching most of her friends die, survivor's guilt would have been placed upon both her and Kirito. From Sachi's perspective, she just lost nearly all of her friends and Kirito saved her. Would she feel indebted to him or perhaps feel repulsed that he couldn't save the others? We will never know.

One possible situation is that survivor's guilt may have translated into her pleading to Kirito something along the lines of "I want to be with you tonight" which sounds similar to something Kirito says at one time to someone. Would Kirito turn her down if she stripped down to underwear and asked for "Kirito's warmth" inside of some dark room? Most likely not, of course this is all speculation. After losing nearly all her friends that she held dear in SAO, she would most likely cling to whatever she had left: in this case, Kirito.
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Old 2012-07-30, 17:02   Link #79
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^@styr I thought so.
I dont think it would be indebted or repulsed.

And I think thats what may have happend after a brush with death people change and after said event may feeling a bit scared and vulneable may look to Kirito for "physical comfort" AKA sex.
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Old 2012-08-04, 17:06   Link #80
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ep. 5

I'm actually glad they didn't bring out Heathcliff. The stuff he says would make any first-time viewer go wild with speculation.

Plus I think it's better story-wise to keep his debut to when they meet him in the guild HQ.
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