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View Poll Results: Critique of Episode 42
10 out of 10: Near Perfect... 1 4.00%
9 out of 10: Excellent... 6 24.00%
8 out of 10: Very Good... 6 24.00%
7 out of 10: Good... 8 32.00%
6 out of 10: Average... 0 0%
5 out of 10: Below Average... 2 8.00%
4 out of 10: Poor... 1 4.00%
3 out of 10: Bad... 1 4.00%
2 out of 10: Very Bad... 0 0%
1 out of 10: Torturous... 0 0%
Voters: 25. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-07-29, 11:23   Link #21
LightningZERO
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=Girard Springgan's backstory is tragic and nicely told...but what was on my mind when I was watching this episode was: why should I care? It would be more effective if Girard was introduced early as we slowly get to know her backstory. But instead, we have entire episode for this random character who will most likely be killed off the next episode. All the screen times could have been given for more Asuno family interactions or the adventure of Captain Ash for something

-I know the federation is useless and corrupted, but it's like the creative team trying to hard to humanize the Vagans and portray the federation as bad as possible recently.

-Enough with the preaching Kio, you won't change anything!

-"Exterminate the Vagans!!!" GO GO GRANDPA FLIT!!!!

-Captain Ash unaffected by the X Rounder breakdown.
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Old 2012-07-29, 12:12   Link #22
ion475
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As far as the episode goes...

1. I agree with LightningZERO. They thrown in a new character that betray Feddie b/c of Feddie's dark side? Like I already don't know that...
2. Oh Kio, like anyone would listen to a kids babbling about how he will end the war himself. Okay, he sympathized with Vagan, but it's never a good idea of trying to convince someone to turn to the other side, especially when the other side is just as evil.
3. Flit finally sortie, of course, he's staying in his crazy "Vagan must be exterminate at all cost" mode. He just doesn't age well at all.
4. Reina/Girard Spriggan, if she don't get kill by next episode I'll be surprised...
5. Gotta love Super Pai-rotto not affected by the Psychoframe burst X-Rounder burst (Don't know the term for this...)
6. Last note, Girard's machine is Madorna's creation, no wonder it's so good unlike all the other Feddie MS.

Overall, it's yet another very average episode. Are they writing this episode just so that people can feel sorry for Reina/Girard? If that's the case, it just doesn't work that well...
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Old 2012-07-29, 12:21   Link #23
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Fram seems like to run away when she has to fight more than 1 MS at once.......even those MS are just fodders. That's not good for her position.
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Old 2012-07-29, 12:23   Link #24
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Originally Posted by Marina2 View Post
Fram seems like to run away when she has to fight more than 1 MS at once.......even those MS are just fodders. That's not good for her position.
It's a smart move though. Inexperienced going up against multiple units in your first battle? Retreat.
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Old 2012-07-29, 12:38   Link #25
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Originally Posted by EpyonHell View Post
was it just me, or did the animation take a step back during parts of this episode? Just look at Flit when he's still on the DIVA's bridge
There was a lot of QUALITY in this episode.

I didn't really need yet another episode of "lolvillain" from Federation, I figured it out a while ago.
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Old 2012-07-29, 12:47   Link #26
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Originally Posted by Vena View Post
There was a lot of QUALITY in this episode.

I didn't really need yet another episode of "lolvillain" from Federation, I figured it out a while ago.
Aaron Simmons the base commander seems to be the the technician. So there is a possibility of sabotage. Kill the Federation's own X-Rounder R&D and get a X-Rounder to defect.
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Old 2012-07-29, 12:49   Link #27
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Aaron Simmons the base commander seems to be the the technician. So there is a possibility of sabotage. Kill the Federation's own X-Rounder R&D and get a X-Rounder to defect.
They sort of confirmed that the Federation was aiming to risk their lives, even if the tech guy (who I was suspecting at first) did sabotage something, its just a drop in the bucket. It doesn't change the fact that the Feds were using them like test rabbits and throwing their lives away.
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Old 2012-07-29, 12:52   Link #28
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Originally Posted by Marina2 View Post
Fram seems like to run away when she has to fight more than 1 MS at once.......even those MS are just fodders. That's not good for her position.
It's good in Gundam because it means she's reversing her death flags.

Rookie enemy Newtype (or whatever super human ability) with latest Newtype MS charging deep into enemy territory and blowing up fodders left and right pretty much means instant death by protagonist within 2 episode.
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Old 2012-07-29, 13:03   Link #29
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Originally Posted by LightningZERO View Post
=Girard Springgan's backstory is tragic and nicely told...but what was on my mind when I was watching this episode was: why should I care? It would be more effective if Girard was introduced early as we slowly get to know her backstory. But instead, we have entire episode for this random character who will most likely be killed off the next episode. All the screen times could have been given for more Asuno family interactions or the adventure of Captain Ash for something
I wonder how she'd feel if she knew that Ezcelant viewed the X-Rounders as a regression of humanity and his plans about Eden.

Quote:
-I know the federation is useless and corrupted, but it's like the creative team trying to hard to humanize the Vagans and portray the federation as bad as possible recently.
That really doesn't work that way.

I mean the Federation in itself is not going around blowing up cities, gunning down civilians, or running tests on humanity to see who would be ideal for some utopia.

In any case, if they want to humanize the Vagans they could at least show some that aren't exactly happy with the way the war is running.

Quote:
They sort of confirmed that the Federation was aiming to risk their lives, even if the tech guy (who I was suspecting at first) did sabotage something, its just a drop in the bucket. It doesn't change the fact that the Feds were using them like test rabbits and throwing their lives away.
And Ezcelant is running the entire human race like test rabbits to begin with.
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Old 2012-07-29, 13:27   Link #30
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I was pleasantly surprised when I saw this had aired. I'll form my thoughts on this later, but it was nice to see former commander Flit charge into the battlefield yelling exterminate all vagans. Makes me wonder how long until he starts calling Kio a Vagan...
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Old 2012-07-29, 21:48   Link #31
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*sigh* I'm rather saddended by this "Flit is so cool for shouting 'EXTERMINATE THE VEGANS!'" disease going around the 'net. If this were any other character he'd be called an emo psychopath, but because he's not a teenage character anymore..........

I refuse to accept any character who rants of or cries out desires for genocide as any form or synonym of "cool." Flit's bordering on a psychopath who either needs a serious wakeup slap, or be put down like the rabid dog he is. Heck, even the son he raised doesn't agree with his "Vegans are all evil" views anymore, and Asem never even saw what the Vegans are really like back in their home. Kio needs to give his grandpa a heavy b*tchslap.
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Old 2012-07-29, 22:10   Link #32
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*sigh* I'm rather saddended by this "Flit is so cool for shouting 'EXTERMINATE THE VEGANS!'" disease going around the 'net. If this were any other character he'd be called an emo psychopath, but because he's not a teenage character anymore..........

I refuse to accept any character who rants of or cries out desires for genocide as any form or synonym of "cool." Flit's bordering on a psychopath who either needs a serious wakeup slap, or be put down like the rabid dog he is. Heck, even the son he raised doesn't agree with his "Vegans are all evil" views anymore, and Asem never even saw what the Vegans are really like back in their home. Kio needs to give his grandpa a heavy b*tchslap.
Haven't you heard man? It's all Ezelcant's fault.
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Old 2012-07-29, 22:51   Link #33
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Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
*sigh* I'm rather saddended by this "Flit is so cool for shouting 'EXTERMINATE THE VEGANS!'" disease going around the 'net. If this were any other character he'd be called an emo psychopath, but because he's not a teenage character anymore..........

I refuse to accept any character who rants of or cries out desires for genocide as any form or synonym of "cool." Flit's bordering on a psychopath who either needs a serious wakeup slap, or be put down like the rabid dog he is. Heck, even the son he raised doesn't agree with his "Vegans are all evil" views anymore, and Asem never even saw what the Vegans are really like back in their home. Kio needs to give his grandpa a heavy b*tchslap.
What wake-up call?

Where have the Vagans demonstrated anything that would sympathize with them? I really am interested to see what you guys are watching because so far the Vagans have yet to do anything angelic or deserving of sympathy or any less "villain-like." Oh wow there was this cute girl named Lu, all of a sudden that wipes the slate clean of all the bad things the Vagan did.

Granted, Flit is pretty angsty but what do you expect? This is a guy whose family was wiped out in front of his eyes as a child and witnessed atrocities committed by the Vagans throughout his life. The worse was when Decil took Yurin as a playtoy and used her as such where Flit cherised life itself. 60 years later the Vagans are still doing the same thing and the fact that this is all a "test" where the weak are thrown away just makes it even worse.

Kio's no better with his "we need to understand" or "let's stop fighting" crap. I was expecting Girald to have some deeper meaning but we've already known the Federation was corrupted and it still doesn't make the Vagans any less villain like. They aren't the ones going around running tests to see who lives and dies.

Asemu on the other hand is the only one level headed since he's the one trying to reveal the truth to Zeheart that the Vagans are being led down a destructive path. That and the Eden plan isn't what he thinks it is. Why isn't Kio doing that?

This whole war isn't about the Federation's corruption or oppression. It's the fact that one guy wants to use war as a test to see who gets to live in his utopia.

Quote:
Haven't you heard man? It's all Ezelcant's fault.
If anything Kio should be putting more effort into dealing with the guy and his plans and not just go around his grunts and say, "let's stop fighting!" Hell even Kira put his no-kill rule aside when it came down to dealing with the true instigators and leaders that were driving the fighting in the first place.
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Old 2012-07-29, 23:31   Link #34
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Haven't you heard man? It's all Ezelcant's fault.
Your attempt at sarcasm is falling flat.

We can all fault the Feds for abandoning the Vagans at Mars and did a massive cover up, however if you are going to fault Flit for holding a grunge at the Vagans then by the same reasoning you should be faulting Ezelcant of the same thing because Ezelcant is holding a grunge at humanity as a whole for the entire time because of his son dying of Mars rays. On top of this Ezelcant is in the lower moral position because we also knew that the Feds offered an olive branch - a symbol of redemption of humanity to right the wrong - to the Vagans during Gen 2/Asemu's arc but they flatly refused and continues with their social Darwanist plan with invasion and murdering non-combatant civilians to "evolve" a new human race - clearly Ezelant is off the cliff more so than Flit ever is or was.

The fact that the war is still going on now is CLEARLY Ezelant's fault, and I'd like to see you argue otherwise.
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Old 2012-07-30, 00:15   Link #35
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Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post
Well talk about disproportionate revenge from Girard Spriggan. Sure there are corrupt officers that were your superiors but that doesn't mean you take it out on everybody.

I find her start of darkness weak. Bad witting again.
I don't know, man. I've heard people who betray their country because they was mistreated by their superior, and that's not an uncommon story in the war time.
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Old 2012-07-30, 00:53   Link #36
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Your attempt at sarcasm is falling flat.

We can all fault the Feds for abandoning the Vagans at Mars and did a massive cover up, however if you are going to fault Flit for holding a grunge at the Vagans then by the same reasoning you should be faulting Ezelcant of the same thing because Ezelcant is holding a grunge at humanity as a whole for the entire time because of his son dying of Mars rays.
I don't fault Flit for holding a grudge, I fault him for wanting to commit genocide on the basis that he lost his mother and girlfriend. Stop downplaying Flit's intentions, he wants to exterminate an entire race.
I've never tried to defend Ezelcant's plan, because it honestly is awful. All I've done is try to be as objective as possible, something some around here, including yourself, are incapable of it seems.


Quote:
On top of this Ezelcant is in the lower moral position because we also knew that the Feds offered an olive branch - a symbol of redemption of humanity to right the wrong - to the Vagans during Gen 2/Asemu's arc but they flatly refused and continues with their social Darwanist plan with invasion and murdering non-combatant civilians to "evolve" a new human race - clearly Ezelant is off the cliff more so than Flit ever is or was.
Biased much?

First of all, it's HIS plan, Ezelcant's plan, not the Vagans' plan. That was made pretty obvious in the last couple of episodes. If it wasn't evident in 39 when Ezelcant spilt the beans to Kio, it should have been when Asemu tried to tell it to Zeheart. The Vagan goal is totally different from Ezelcant. HE doesn't' want peace, the rest of his people probably do, just not at the expense of remaining on Mars and keeping the status quo. This is most likely what the Federation offered them. Flit also doesn't want peace because his goal is the extermination of ALL Vagans, his exact words btw...I fail to see how one is higher on the moral scale than the other. Both are wrong,


Quote:
The fact that the war is still going on now is CLEARLY Ezelant's fault, and I'd like to see you argue otherwise.
Not really. If the Federation really wanted to redeem itself and truly right the wrong, they would have bypassed Ezelcant and gone straight to the Vagans via broadcasts and what not explaining that they were willing to discuss bringing them home. Ezelcant would not have had as much support as he does because people would question why fight when we can settle things peacefully?
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Old 2012-07-30, 02:24   Link #37
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I don't fault Flit for holding a grudge, I fault him for wanting to commit genocide on the basis that he lost his mother and girlfriend.
And I just pointed out that you should be holding Ezelcant for the exact same reason. Ezelcant hold a grunge against humanity because his son died of Mars rays, AND he goes on to murder civilians because of this grunge. Flit has done no such thing.

Quote:
Stop downplaying Flit's intentions, he wants to exterminate an entire race.
I've never tried to defend Ezelcant's plan, because it honestly is awful. All I've done is try to be as objective as possible, something some around here, including yourself, are incapable of it seems.
Yet the one being unable to be objective here is clearly you. Because for all intent and purpose *in comparison* Flit is the lesser of the evil which most people can see, and not the villian that is worse than the Vagan's and the one who's proping up the war which you are trying to paint him as.

Quote:
The Vagan goal is totally different from Ezelcant.
The surface story is that the Vagan shall kill those greedy Earthnoids who's living happily without suffering and take back Earth as their rightful land, it's about as worse than Ezelcant's true plan, hardly better in anyway (try spin this one, I really like to see you do it). You are the one that's being bias here.

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HE doesn't' want peace, the rest of his people probably do
They don't, because the military while not knowing Ezeclant's true plans of Social Darwinism, still clearly supports his cover story of wiping out the Earthnoids and take back Earth as their rightful land. Case in point Zeheart and Fram, and even Vagan civilians like Lu's older brother and others like him who volunteer to join the army for that "greater cause" of taking back Earth as their rightful land and carry out revenge due to their mistreatment, so your claim that the rest of his people wanting peace is not supported by any on screen evidence, while their citizens brainwashed by Ezeclant's tamer, but still plenty evil, cover story and actually carrying out their orders of murdering civilians, are plainly in sight at every turn of the series.

Quote:
This is most likely what the Federation offered them. Flit also doesn't want peace because his goal is the extermination of ALL Vagans, his exact words btw...I fail to see how one is higher on the moral scale than the other.
And you clearly forget that Vagans wants to kill all Earthnoids, and not words, but ACTION. Heard the phrase that "action speaks louder than words" before right? As long as the Vagans are actively KILLING civilians - which we've seen time and time again in EACH generation - not just Flit's, they are NOT on any moral high ground. Don't know why you keep skipping over this fact and already holding Flit on trail on just mere words but completely skipping over the fact that Vagans actually murdering civilians on multiple occasions. Heck Zeheart himself while portrayed as the caring commander for his subordinates has more civilian blood on his hand than Flit does at this moment in time, him having led the initial Earth invasion at the beginning of Kio's arc, attacking a civilian town of all places. If both were put on a trail now, Zeheart would be ruled to have actually committed crimes against humanity, and Flit would be able to run away freely with no crime.

Quote:
Not really. If the Federation really wanted to redeem itself and truly right the wrong, they would have bypassed Ezelcant and gone straight to the Vagans via broadcasts and what not explaining that they were willing to discuss bringing them home. Ezelcant would not have had as much support as he does because people would question why fight when we can settle things peacefully?
And on the flip side if the Vagan's wanted peace a faction could also broke free and negotiate with the Feds and organise a coup on Ezelcant too. The argument goes both ways except while we know the Feds had taken action, no matter how small, the Vagans haven't taken any actions at all, and any talk of a peaceful action is purely your own speculations, whereas Federation peace talk is FACT talked of on screen.

This isn't really surprising either because the Vagan military, even sans Ezelcant, were still brainwashed enough to wants blood, more so than Flit. Again see Fram and others.
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Last edited by houkoholic; 2012-07-30 at 03:05.
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Old 2012-07-30, 02:56   Link #38
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I don't fault Flit for holding a grudge, I fault him for wanting to commit genocide on the basis that he lost his mother and girlfriend. Stop downplaying Flit's intentions, he wants to exterminate an entire race.
Not really, let me sum up the people Flit has lost over the years:

His Mother
Yurin
Countless of soldiers following his orders over the years.
Grodek
Woolf
Bridge blackguy from S1/Millias (sidestories)
Asemu up until recently
Countless of civilians caught in the crossfire between gen 1-3
up to 40% of Earth
Assuming his old Gen-2 home colony
that thing that made him step by as commander-in-chief

Flit has been fighting the war his whole life and he keeps losing people close to him, of course the guy wants to exterminate the other side when they have been exterminating his side for the past 60-70 years.

Genocide isnt justified from our point of view, but we can atleast understand why Flit wants to commit genocide against the Vagans, anyone denying that he has a valid reason for it sem to forget how long the show has been running inuniverse
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Old 2012-07-30, 03:18   Link #39
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The fact that you say Fram, Zeheart and Dean are fighting for Ezelcant's "cover story" which is to murder Earthnoids indiscriminately just destroys any claims of objectivity you might make. I'm not gonna bother dissecting your arguments because pretty much everything you said is extremely biased and just plain wrong. It's sad that some of you won't get it even if the show smacks you over the head with it.
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Old 2012-07-30, 03:36   Link #40
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Revolutionist, Did you live during the Cold War era?

If you did you should be familiar with the doctrine called Mutual Assured Destruction. One would say it nuclear weapons are deterrents. But what if the other side in a fit of insanity launch its nuclear weapons? The other side would naturally retaliate as to deny the other side victory.

The Vegans made first strike committing genocide in a grand scale for 70 years, the Federation justified in retaliating back by wiping out the threat.

The Federation has been reluctant get to a Lensman arms race with the Vegans due to historical precedents now they've been backed in the corner and are now willing to use them. (Plasma Diver Missiles)
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