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Old 2012-07-31, 08:25   Link #661
kyp275
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Originally Posted by XaXa View Post
So you would give him the same rights like a human? If somebody destroys him - the accusation would be murder?
That would be an issue that would have to be decided by the society if/when that happens. Frankly it's no different than say if you come into contact with non-terrestrial intelligent life. Personally I don't see why the origin of any sentient life should have any bearing on the basic rights that it deserves.

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Originally Posted by n120cky View Post
Well if we back to the definition of PC/NPC int my opinion Yui is NPC, because no real human play as her character, If you say that her nature is different . . . well you could say that she is a special type of NPC (which is can be created by accident) with special AI that make her more humanize, or another extreme way of thinking is think her as a 'being' that lurk whitin digital world (you can analog it to ISO in tron).
Yui is not a "character", as "character" exists only in GAMES, the boundaries of which she has long since broken out of. You're equating AIs to NPC, which are two fundamentally different terms.
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Old 2012-07-31, 08:28   Link #662
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@kyp275 - well because plants and animals are also "alive"... would be hard without eating that stuff. Why should we be allowd to end their lifes - but our life worth more. Not humans = not the exact same rights.

Quote:
Well if we back to the definition of PC/NPC int my opinion Yui is NPC, because no real human play as her character, If you say that her nature is different . . . well you could say that she is a special type of NPC (which is can be created by accident) with special AI that make her more humanize, or another extreme way of thinking is think her as a 'being' that lurk whitin digital world (you can analog it to ISO in tron).
Yes thats pretty much my point. I don't say that she worth nothing because she is an NPC - you all give NPC just so less credits.

Quote:
Yui is not a "character", as "character" exists only in GAMES, the boundaries of which she has long since broken out of. You're equating AIs to NPC, which are two fundamentally different terms.
So is a "Bot" an AI? Because he is not "part of the game". But a bot is just a simple script that charge an enemy and then attacks... without any free will and so on.
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Old 2012-07-31, 08:30   Link #663
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Let's just get back to the main point of answer

Yui is an AI, proven by LN stating she is an AI
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Old 2012-07-31, 08:32   Link #664
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Originally Posted by NoirX View Post
Let's just get back to the main point of answer

Yui is an AI, proven by LN stating she is an AI
yes... and the next step of the argument was... an AI who plays a game is a NPC.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
A non-player character (NPC), sometimes known as a non-person character or non-playable character, in a game is any character not controlled by a player. In electronic games, this usually means a character controlled by the computer through artificial intelligence.
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Old 2012-07-31, 08:37   Link #665
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Originally Posted by XaXa View Post
@kyp275 - well because plants and animals are also "alive"... would be hard without eating that stuff. Why should we be allowd to end their lifes - but our life worth more. Not humans = not the exact same rights.
few animals, and especially not plants, have achieved any where near the level of self-awareness that a sentient AI/alien life form would. And even then animals are considered to be sentient enough for there to be animal cruelty laws.

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Originally Posted by XaXa View Post
Yes thats pretty much my point. I don't say that she worth nothing because she is an NPC - you all give NPC just so less credits.
no, I'm taking issues with your completely incorrect use of the term AI and NPC, the two are not interchangeable.
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Old 2012-07-31, 08:40   Link #666
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Quote:
no, I'm taking issues with your completely incorrect use of the term AI and NPC, the two are not interchangeable.
I wrote earlyer that an AI doesn't have to be a NPC. Just an AI in a game is always a NPC...
We are talking about Yui in the game... the character in the game... controlled by the AI - which makes the Character in the game a NPC.



Quote:
few animals, and especially not plants, have achieved any where near the level of self-awareness that a sentient AI/alien life form would. And even then animals are considered to be sentient enough for there to be animal cruelty laws.
Yes but we treat a person that has braindamage better than the smartest salad on the planet.
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Old 2012-07-31, 08:42   Link #667
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Originally Posted by XaXa View Post
yes... and the next step of the argument was... an AI who plays a game is a NPC.
Nope. An AI that's designed to be a NPC in a game is an NPC, an AI that is designed to run aspects of the game in the background is NOT an NPC, and a Foreign AI that is not part of the game playing the actual game is definitely NOT an NPC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XaXa View Post
I wrote earlyer that an AI doesn't have to be a NPC. Just an AI in a game is always a NPC...
We are talking about Yui in the game... the character in the game... controlled by the AI - which makes the Character in the game a NPC.
And the issue with Yui is that she doesn't just exist in a game, she exists OUTSIDE of the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XaXa View Post
Yes but we treat a person that has braindamage better than the smartest salad on the planet.
sigh, did you not read what I wrote, or are you just incapable of comprehending what you read? show me a fully sentient and self-aware AI or a little green man from outer space, or a talking dolphin or mayhaps a talking apple tree, then we can have meaningful discussions on the basic rights of non-human life.
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Old 2012-07-31, 08:45   Link #668
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@XaXa Well since you just agreed to Yui being an AI(which you stubbornly not before), your next argument was "an AI who plays a game is a NPC."

Let me give another answer to that

She is not playing any games, she just exists inside the game as Kirito's personal AI
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Old 2012-07-31, 08:48   Link #669
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Yes but her character - that cute little girl they adopted is just a NPC. 'cause it is a character that is controlled by AI and not a Player. And only exist in the game...

She did not wait in line to buy the game and play it...
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Old 2012-07-31, 08:49   Link #670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
Yui is not a "character", as "character" exists only in GAMES, the boundaries of which she has long since broken out of. You're equating AIs to NPC, which are two fundamentally different terms.
I'm not equating AIs to NPC they do have different principle, but in my point of view AI can that can be attached to NPC so that NPC can learn or thinking and even more be humanize. AI not only can be attached to NPC(a program) but if you attach it to a robot than it can do almost human like job if AI was really perfect.

Well form I understand that to your point of view Yui can't be said as an NPC because she is not a 'character' in first place rather than AI with a child girl persona?

Attach Yui to a girl robot then Yui can be player playing character in SOA, that would be good isn't it?
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Old 2012-07-31, 08:53   Link #671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoirX View Post
@XaXa Well since you just agreed to Yui being an AI(which you stubbornly not before), your next argument was "an AI who plays a game is a NPC."

Let me give another answer to that

She is not playing any games, she just exists inside the game as Kirito's personal AI
that was btw. just my first sentence in this forum
"I have a little argument with some people if Yui is a NPC or not. They all claim she is an AI - which I agree with. But does that mean she is not a NPC?"


"Play" just means she is in the game. Like a GM is not meant to "play" the game ( well yes in SAO the GM plays it :P ) and is still a "Player"
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Old 2012-07-31, 09:05   Link #672
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Originally Posted by n120cky View Post
Well form I understand that to your point of view Yui can't be said as an NPC because she is not a 'character' in first place rather than AI with a child girl persona?
Yes, Yui is an AI that is not bound to a game, thus she cannot be considered as an NPC, which is something that exists solely in games as part of the game itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XaXa View Post
that was btw. just my first sentence in this forum
"I have a little argument with some people if Yui is a NPC or not. They all claim she is an AI - which I agree with. But does that mean she is not a NPC?"


"Play" just means she is in the game. Like a GM is not meant to "play" the game ( well yes in SAO the GM plays it :P ) and is still a "Player"
I'm starting to get the feeling that both you and n120cky are only considering Yui's role in the Aincrad portion of SAO, where she was supposed to be serving as a highly specialized NPC.

Once you move on from Aincrad and consider the SAO series as a whole, Yui cannot be considered to be an NPC.
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Old 2012-07-31, 09:05   Link #673
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@XaXa as n120cky said AIs and NPCs aren't the same You keep neglecting the fact difference that AIs can think while NPCs don't think
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Old 2012-07-31, 09:09   Link #674
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I wake up to three pages of this?

Oi, it's simple -- Yui was an advanced NPC when she first appeared in Morning Dew Girl, but once she broke away from Cardinal, started making decisions on her own that go against the game and transferred her program to Kirito's NervGear, she became an AI that's playing the game.
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Old 2012-07-31, 09:15   Link #675
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako View Post
I wake up to three pages of this?

Oi, it's simple -- Yui was an advanced NPC when she first appeared in Morning Dew Girl, but once she broke away from Cardinal, started making decisions on her own that go against the game and transferred her program to Kirito's NervGear, she became an AI that's playing the game.
That's what we've been trying to tell XaXa
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Old 2012-07-31, 09:17   Link #676
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Well I can take as much as Yui is a novel character introduce by author as an AI, so her role not only be attached solely for SOA but also other MMO or even real life.

If I may suggest a comparison then
Spoiler for Hack series:
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Old 2012-07-31, 09:19   Link #677
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n120cky View Post
Well I can take as much as Yui is a novel character introduce by author as an AI, so her role not only be attached solely for SOA but also other MMO or even real life.

If I may suggest a comparison then
Spoiler for Hack series:
On another note, an independent acting program is already sufficient enough to be called an AI
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Old 2012-07-31, 09:22   Link #678
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To say that every AI can "Think" is a really strong word. Like I wrote iGod is an AI. But his ability to learn is simple "copy what human wrote" so it looks like he would be a real person.

If you ask him if SOA is a good anime - he will not think about it... He will replay with the answer he saw somwhere else.

or if he has no clue... ^^
Quote:
Me:
is sword art online a good anime?
God:
Maybe. Ask Chatbot if it is.
Me:
is sword art online a good anime?
God:
Maybe. Ask Lucy if it is.
Me:
is sword art online a good anime?
God:
Maybe. Ask Alison if it is.
Me:
is sword art online a good anime?
God:
I think so, but I'm not sure. Ask John Lennon if it is.
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Old 2012-07-31, 09:31   Link #679
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@XaXa Because he doesn't know what SAO is, AI are also based on a knowledge beforehand. Meanwhile there are also Super AIs which have a searching capabilities to gain knowledge in this case IGod lacking it

Btw it's getting out of topic since the answers are already given and clear i don't think it needs further arguments
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Old 2012-07-31, 09:39   Link #680
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so you think that the character Yui in the game is a NPC? Because you understand the fact that there are just 2 types of character possible in a game. Players and non-Players? And Yui is clearly a NPC.


"Searching Ability" yeah he is looking up things on the internet... Doesn't really count as "Thinking" ...well nowadays maybe...
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