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Old 2012-08-02, 12:51   Link #541
kuromitsu
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FWIW as much as this OVA sucks, it's partly the producers' fault: I think the OVAs are not trying to be adaptations, per se, but rather a sort of alternate Rurouni Kenshin for people who want a darker&edgier/"more realistic" version. Which is why even the first OVA series felt disconnected from the manga/TV series, the second OVA series had basically nothing to do with it, and this third one might as well be a different show, too. It's more "inspired by Watsuki Nobuhiro's Rurouni Kenshin" instead of an adaptation... which I wouldn't normally mind, except URGH, what the hell are you doing to the characters I love, never mind the story?! ;__; )

The mess that is the actual writing in this OVA is, of course, an entirely different problem... (*cough*Okada*cough*)

I still can't get over the sex scene. Ouch! (I can't believe a woman wrote that. )
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Old 2012-08-02, 13:43   Link #542
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I'm still too hungry to look forward eating the Jinchu adaptation, what a shame
And like many people said, the OVA does not look like Kenshin at all, it looks more like a dark and edgy standalone anime inspired by the Kyoto arc.
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Old 2012-08-02, 14:38   Link #543
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There are times I'm asking myself how and why people adapt stories like that WITHOUT consulting the author himself, especially when the subject material has been covered before. I know it's difficult to cover everything into 45-minute episodes, but not to the point of disconnecting from the original tone.

About the sex scene... that was probably the only positive (for me at least) when you know Yumi is involved here. Naughty me!

Last edited by KiraYamatoFan; 2012-08-02 at 16:29. Reason: missed a word
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Old 2012-08-02, 15:01   Link #544
kuromitsu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
I know it's difficult to cover everything into 45-minute episodes, but not to the point of disconnecting from the original tone.
Frankly, it seems to me they didn't even try...

Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
About the sex scene... that was probably the only positive (for me at least) when you Yumi is involved here. Naughty me!
See, about the sex scene, if you think about how insanely hot (I mean, literally ) Shishio's body is, it's just.... owww. And as an example of the absolutely "genius" writing, we see Shishio fry Usui just after the sex scene.
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Old 2012-08-02, 16:27   Link #545
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The sex scene was pretty bad, but I think Shishio's line to Kenshin about "The hot springs making women open their legs more" or whatever might have been even worse. Why would he talk about such things in a conference with his greatest rival? It's just stupid. Okada had no grasp whatsoever on any of the characters. Like having Misao be the one to claim Kenshin and Sojiro's bout was a tie. Just... no. Every single person was out of character, it was Seisouhen/Reflections all over again.
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Old 2012-08-02, 16:34   Link #546
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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
See, about the sex scene, if you think about how insanely hot (I mean, literally ) Shishio's body is, it's just.... owww. And as an example of the absolutely "genius" writing, we see Shishio fry Usui just after the sex scene.
Who cares about Shishio? Looking at Yumi doing it was enough to let fantasies run wild for a few seconds. She is an oiran, you know.

But from the very second Usui comes in, it comes back into the negative bit of the show.
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Old 2012-08-02, 16:50   Link #547
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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
Which is why even the first OVA series felt disconnected from the manga/TV series, the second OVA series had basically nothing to do with it, and this third one might as well be a different show, too.
I always like the Tsuiokuhen OVA. I think it tells the story better than the manga itself by not pointing too much on the fights and concentrate more on character interaction/building. For example, in the manga, Kenshin’s fights to save Tomoe feels much like “levelling” in a game until he reached the “final boss”, where in the OVA they feel more like genuine fights without all the gimmicks and shounen-ish nature. It’s far more dramatic. Even with all that, I think all the characters are still true to the manga.

I can understand the “disconnected” feeling to the TV series though, since we got a whole new characters and Kenshin here is a different person from someone we knew from the series.
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Old 2012-08-02, 18:27   Link #548
kuromitsu
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Kenshin here is a different person from someone we knew from the series.
That, right there, is why I said Tsuiokuhen is disconnected, not just from the TV series but the manga as well. It's pretty common that people watch the OVAs first (because they're short and praised by everyone), then watch the TV series or read the manga, and are completely baffled by the Kenshin they see there. This shouldn't be so. In the manga flashback!Kenshin is still Kenshin, just at a different stage of his life. But he can still smile and have various other facial expressions, he sneaks around with an unconscious Tomoe so people won't get the wrong idea, he regularly plays with the village kids, etc. (Like in this scene.) In the OVA he's a dark, emotionally dead guy who has two facial expressions at most. (Same with Tomoe - unlike in the OVA, in the manga she's actually alive.) Drama is fine and all, but what we have in Tsuiokuhen is all drama and no human element, it's all cold and impersonal.

Sure, Tsuiokuhen is less "typical shounen" than the manga or the series, but it also sacrifices the details that make the whole thing work as far as I'm concerned, and ultimately turn it into a standalone story.

I suppose whether it works or not depends on what one is looking for in a story - me, I'm character centric so I focus more on these things. Other people are more into mood or story, etc.
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Old 2012-08-02, 18:45   Link #549
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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
Sure, Tsuiokuhen is less "typical shounen" than the manga or the series, but it also sacrifices the details that make the whole thing work as far as I'm concerned, and ultimately turn it into a standalone story.
I think the biggest weakness of Tsuiokuhen (which I enjoyed quite a bit, and still do but treat it as a separate retelling) is that the elements of Kenshin's and Tomoe's personas that were cut out could have easily been included with not much more work and would have made for a much more faithful reenactment. That said, I don't think they were aiming for Kenshin but more of Battosai (less Kenshin), and in that sense they did make him into what one would expect from a jaded, war machine. Similarly, they turned Tomoe into the generally expected black widow (though I think she, out of the two, could have been better served with some of her manga personality, it really helps to see her living and falling in love rather than being frozen in ice perpetually until her death). I do think that the OVA did a better job with the ramp up to the finally and the fighting, though, so I always give it credit for that. The fight scenes at the end are pretty damn fantastic (unless my memory has been totally rose colored over the years).

I can see why they did what they did with Kenshin and in some ways it works, and I can see why they did what they did with Tomoe but I think she suffers for it a bit in character because she ends up coming off like an ice sculpture rather than a person.

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I still can't get over the sex scene. Ouch! (I can't believe a woman wrote that. )
But did you know that "Mareep" Okada is actually a pokemon?

But yes, more seriously, I don't attribute all of this to Okada (who is... probably not the best suited for this) as this also DEEN, and they are notorious for bad, thoughtless, or just plain stupid decisions and butcherings of franchises. Still, the writing was quite erratic (almost non-sequitur at times), and there's only one person to blame for that.
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Old 2012-08-02, 23:15   Link #550
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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
I suppose whether it works or not depends on what one is looking for in a story - me, I'm character centric so I focus more on these things. Other people are more into mood or story, etc.
Ah, that statement is true for me . Back then when I was about to watch Tsuiokuhen, I was expecting to see a dark “Battousai” Himura and also a grim kinda story too (I’ve already finished the manga at the time). After watching it, my mind was blown away. The OVA met my expectation for a dark story almost perfectly, and I’m glad to see a colder Kenshin from his “battousai” period. I have no problem with the manga, but the OVA version “clicks” more with me.
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Old 2012-09-14, 14:45   Link #551
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
I always like the Tsuiokuhen OVA. I think it tells the story better than the manga itself by not pointing too much on the fights and concentrate more on character interaction/building. For example, in the manga, Kenshin’s fights to save Tomoe feels much like “levelling” in a game until he reached the “final boss”, where in the OVA they feel more like genuine fights without all the gimmicks and shounen-ish nature. It’s far more dramatic. Even with all that, I think all the characters are still true to the manga.

I can understand the “disconnected” feeling to the TV series though, since we got a whole new characters and Kenshin here is a different person from someone we knew from the series.
Totally agreed! Tsuiokuhen was beautifully done. Yes it was a disconnect from the manga and anime and even Watsuki disliked it, but the way the characters where portrayed made Tomoe's "betrayal" so much harder in the end. Kenshin's depiction as utterly devastated and lost when he learns about Tomoe's past and betrayal was wonderful. You can really feel that he had no idea what he was doing other then moving forward. In the manga he didn't seem all that upset about learning that the woman he loves has pretty much backstabbed him... or did he even know that she was working for the enemy?
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Old 2012-09-18, 05:43   Link #552
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Spoiler for Episode 2 (End):
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Old 2013-03-28, 17:13   Link #553
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I just watched this and was extremely dissapointed with the fight scenes in particular. For instance, Soujiou and Kenshin's clash has absolutely no weight behind it in terms of animation - it just felt empty and weak.
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Old 2013-05-31, 07:29   Link #554
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No one is more weary at having my emotions toyed with than me, and thus more reluctant to post this here:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...end-on-tuesday

It's probably related to the second live-action movie, so I'm not getting my hopes up. I'm not getting my hopes up. I'm not getting my hopes up...
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Old 2013-06-04, 14:55   Link #555
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Old 2013-06-04, 18:53   Link #556
Guardian Enzo
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They moved it...

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...end-on-tuesday
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Old 2013-06-04, 19:12   Link #557
kuromitsu
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*prays* Please, no more OVAs with this staff. Please, no more OVAs with this staff. Please, no more OVAs with this staff...
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Old 2013-06-05, 04:09   Link #558
Guardian Enzo
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I would deliriously accept a Jinchou adaptation under any circumstances, but I fear it would be DEEN and Furahashi again, and frankly I've lost confidence in him as a director. I think the first two seasons were an accident - I simply don't think he likes RK the way Watsuki wrote it. As for Okada, I'd be OK with her as she tends to do decently with adaptations of finished product.
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Old 2013-06-07, 12:48   Link #559
kuromitsu
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If the same bunch does the Jinchuu arc they'll probably want to follow their own continuity, that is, the OVA continuity. And remember how they dealt with the Jinchuu arc in Seisouhen. -_-) I'd been also hoping to see the Jinchuu arc animated one day, but if I had to choose between the OVA treatment or nothing...

I don't quite understand what Furahashi's (or whoever told him to make the OVAs the way he does) problem is with the tone and message of the manga. I can sort of understand that they want to do a more "mature" Kenshin, never mind that this was one of the most mature manga that ever ran in WSJ. But why the hell do they think the way to achieve this is to excise all positivity about it...

Last edited by kuromitsu; 2013-06-07 at 13:00.
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Old 2013-06-15, 20:15   Link #560
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The TC here mentions that a live action sequel is in the works. Considering the timing, it's likely the July announcement will just repeat the sequel being green-lit.
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