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View Poll Results: Critique of Episode 05
10 out of 10: Near Perfect... 35 22.88%
9 out of 10 : Excellent... 41 26.80%
8 out of 10 : Very Good... 29 18.95%
7 out of 10 : Good... 30 19.61%
6 out of 10 : Average... 8 5.23%
5 out of 10 : Below Average... 2 1.31%
4 out of 10 : Poor... 4 2.61%
3 out of 10 : Bad... 1 0.65%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad... 2 1.31%
1 out of 10 : Torturous... 1 0.65%
Voters: 153. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-08-04, 21:50   Link #121
Ascaloth
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You know, there's something I never really got, even from when I read the source material;

The whole episode revolves around the Sleep-PK mechanic. In the episode, they were talking about how Asuna could have been Sleep-PKed if Kirito was not there to guard her.

The issue is, why was Kirito himself not concerned about getting Sleep-PKed? You'd think that napping outside of a house or inn is something that is best done only with two people taking shifts, and avoided whenever possible, yet there he was lying under the tree like he bloody well owns the damned place.
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Old 2012-08-04, 21:50   Link #122
Spartanz1170
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That last scene just reminded me of a certain assassin from the Crusades , good episode overall especially those Kirito x Asuna scenes
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Old 2012-08-04, 22:01   Link #123
Kmos
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I'm finding the storytelling to be clunky. This epsode's start is a meeting (Mar. 6, 2024 Floor 56) to clear a field boss then nothing is mentioned again about this event. It leaves the first segment hanging without conclusion and seems to jump to the next segment in the story which is the mystery (Apr. 11, 2024 Floor 59 -> 57).

Disagreement or conclusion of the meeting wasn't shown, why they're in a [big?] meeting to attack a field boss isn't told, success/failure wasn't mentioned. I get the point of the beginning is to re-establish the relationship between Kirito, Asuna, and Egil, but the way it was handled would've been better as a footnote at the end of a book. Episode 3's beginning where Kirito saves that guild offscreen as it's told during their celebration is fine, but this is a bad start.

Sleep-PKs. Now what I don't understand at all is players being able to control another player's menu screen during sleep? Is that actually in any MMO games? Who would even put in such a function??? Seems very unlikely devs would even implement such an ability in games. It's harder to accept when Kirito mentions how he thinks SAO rules are 'fair.'

Edit in: Yea, Kirito could've been killed as well, level 78 or whatever he is now isn't really a big buffer vs a group of mobs or players in a level 59 setting.
I gave this a 'good' rating. I'm still enjoying SAO because I'm into MMOs and stories about it but this ability to access another player's menu options makes zero sense and I wish the storytelling was smoother.
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Old 2012-08-04, 22:04   Link #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
The issue is, why was Kirito himself not concerned about getting Sleep-PKed?
I don't think Kirito was asleep under the tree. I think he was just lying there. He responded quickly to Asuna's opening comment with no trace of sleepiness in his voice. Later, he expressed surprise that Asuna would actually fall asleep which says to me that he hadn't. To me, those indicate that Kirito wasn't asleep at any time under the tree. (Viewer classification: anime-only.)
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Old 2012-08-04, 22:05   Link #125
Utsuro no Hako
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kmos View Post
Sleep-PKs. Now what I don't understand at all is players being able to control another player's menu screen during sleep? Is that actually in any MMO games? Who would even put in such a function??? Seems very unlikely devs would even implement such an ability in games. It's harder to accept when Kirito mentions how he thinks SAO rules are 'fair.'
The menus are controlled by hand gestures. Manipulate a sleeping player's hands in the correct gestures and the system responds, regardless of whether they're awake or asleep. This isn't something you could do in a regular MMO because you don't have that much control of your hands, but it's possible in a VRMMO.
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Old 2012-08-04, 22:05   Link #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LKK View Post
I don't think Kirito was asleep under the tree. I think he was just lying there. He responded quickly to Asuna's opening comment with no trace of sleepiness in his voice. Later, he expressed surprise that Asuna would actually fall asleep which says to me that he hadn't. To me, those indicate that Kirito wasn't asleep at any time under the tree. (Viewer classification: anime-only.)
Thanks for reminding me about sleeping Asuna....

*Imagining Asuna.
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Old 2012-08-04, 22:09   Link #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kmos View Post
Sleep-PKs. Now what I don't understand at all is players being able to control another player's menu screen during sleep? Is that actually in any MMO games? Who would even put in such a function??? Seems very unlikely devs would even implement such an ability in games. It's harder to accept when Kirito mentions how he thinks SAO rules are 'fair.'
You notice you can see other player's screens throughout the anime? All you have to do is move a player's hand to the screen, and have them select 'accept' or something similar in their sleep. It wouldn't be that difficult.

//EDIT: Beaten to it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kmos View Post
I'm finding the storytelling to be clunky. This epsode's start is a meeting (Mar. 6, 2024 Floor 56) to clear a field boss then nothing is mentioned again about this event. It leaves the first segment hanging without conclusion and seems to jump to the next segment in the story which is the mystery (Apr. 11, 2024 Floor 59 -> 57).
Could be flashback fodder for the missing elements from the ME 1 Progressor's story, but as is it introduces us to quite a lot of bits for only being 90'ish seconds.
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Old 2012-08-04, 22:19   Link #128
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I don't think it matters whether or not we currently have VRMMOs to which we can touch or move another player's character. It's a question of why would anyone give someone the option to operate their personal character. It opens up a whole lot of griefing/hacking mechanics which makes for a bad game. Would anyone honestly want a game like that?
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Old 2012-08-04, 22:31   Link #129
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Yes! Yes! All Cute Girls Must Die!! Go, go, Kirito!!

(Except my wife!)
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Old 2012-08-04, 22:40   Link #130
Clarste
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kmos View Post
I don't think it matters whether or not we currently have VRMMOs to which we can touch or move another player's character. It's a question of why would anyone give someone the option to operate their personal character. It opens up a whole lot of griefing/hacking mechanics which makes for a bad game. Would anyone honestly want a game like that?
It's not about having "the option to operate another person's character", it's about "having the realism to touch someone else". The fact is, the menus work through a kind of motion control. Well, so does everything else. Because that's the only way the game can work. There is no controller, it's just a fake body being fed fake sensory information. There is literally no way for anyone to interact with anything in the world except by moving their game body around.

So either people can move other people's bodies, and therefore operate each other's controls, or they can't move each other's bodies at all. And I think everyone would agree that a VR game where you can't touch other people would be incredibly stupid and defeat the entire point of the immersion.

And really, the only problem is when people are asleep. But... in a real game (and SAO was designed to be a game), why in the world would you go to sleep in the game? Instead of just logging out and taking a nap? It just wouldn't be an issue that would ever come up in normal circumstances. Someone who's awake could easily prevent that because it's not like anyone's naturally bigger and stronger than you.
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Old 2012-08-04, 22:50   Link #131
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I always seem to get this vision of Guts from Berserk whenever I hear Kirito's nickname :lol:
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Old 2012-08-04, 23:00   Link #132
n120cky
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I really doubt it Kirito is not sleeping (Kirito has the ability to detect ppl, so I think he still save if he sleeping outside), yet still Asuna sleeping is cute, well in addition her sneeze it's cute voice ,I think she don't intend to taking a nap, she just want to lying down but instead she falling a sleep.
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Old 2012-08-04, 23:07   Link #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kmos View Post
I'm finding the storytelling to be clunky. This epsode's start is a meeting (Mar. 6, 2024 Floor 56) to clear a field boss then nothing is mentioned again about this event. It leaves the first segment hanging without conclusion and seems to jump to the next segment in the story which is the mystery (Apr. 11, 2024 Floor 59 -> 57).

Disagreement or conclusion of the meeting wasn't shown, why they're in a [big?] meeting to attack a field boss isn't told, success/failure wasn't mentioned. I get the point of the beginning is to re-establish the relationship between Kirito, Asuna, and Egil, but the way it was handled would've been better as a footnote at the end of a book. Episode 3's beginning where Kirito saves that guild offscreen as it's told during their celebration is fine, but this is a bad start.
I think this is yet another case where they give a glimpse at the background and you might get distracted from what's happening from the foreground. I think that the field boss is really unimportant (as is the outcome of their argument); the only thing that really matters is the dynamic between Kirito and Asuna: that she's a big-shot in a guild now (connection to episode 2), and he's working with her but they "don't get along". They have to show that to establish the nature of their relationship in the following scenes, which leads to their partnership for the crime investigation.

Like I said, it's "yet another case", because a lot of people have been asking questions about how the progress on the front-lines has been going and how they are clearing the floors and so on. But the anime has been rather insistent that all that stuff is just "happening", and is almost stubbornly trying to redirect our focus on what it wants us to focus on. I don't think it's necessarily anyone's fault if they get "distracted"... but I also understand why the story is doing what it's doing in the process. It's saying to us "pay no attention to that; look here!", but not necessarily in a bad way.
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Old 2012-08-04, 23:08   Link #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n120cky View Post
I really doubt it Kirito is not sleeping (Kirito has the ability to detect ppl, so I think he still save if he sleeping outside), yet still Asuna sleeping is cute, well in addition her sneeze it's cute voice ,I think she don't intend to taking a nap, she just want to lying down but instead she falling a sleep.
Sleeping consciously? Kirito is definitely a Master of the Force

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Old 2012-08-04, 23:11   Link #135
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In terms of sleep PK couldn't it be possible for someone to level up their lockpick to break into rooms and do this to people even resting in their own homes/inns? If so then no one is really safe in town when unconscious.

Regardless the whole sleep PK issue is unsettling. Bad enough keeping your guard up normally, but have to take caution regarding where you sleep. It does make sense, but I'd just never consider abusing the duel system like that.

In terms of the crime about the only similarity I can find is height. The guy was hanging out by a rope and Yoruko was sitting out a window. A crazy theory that comes to mind is someone throwing weapons from out of town. I mean Asuna saw no one inside that building and clearly no one in that room could have stabbed Yoruko. Of course don't know how the game regards attacking someone from outside of town, does the in town safe still apply? If it only responds when the attack comes from inside the town then that could explain the murders. Of course this could be nuts so whatever, but just something that came to mind.

And yeah, Asuna is cute when sleeping. Got to end on a positive note .
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Old 2012-08-04, 23:17   Link #136
Clarste
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Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
In terms of sleep PK couldn't it be possible for someone to level up their lockpick to break into rooms and do this to people even resting in their own homes/inns? If so then no one is really safe in town when unconscious.
I don't think lockpicking is a skill.
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Old 2012-08-04, 23:20   Link #137
n120cky
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Sleeping consciously? Kirito is definitely a Master of the Force

Well that's Kirito, he is like your type of veteran MMO player which is he should know what skill that can help him efficiently beat the game.

Well in addition it's glad to see Asuna back but, I'm expecting Kirito and Asuna will form a party and fighting together.
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Old 2012-08-04, 23:21   Link #138
FlareKnight
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I don't think lockpicking is a skill.
Maybe not, but if listening is then I'm not in a hurry to count out anything. Seems like skills in this game are pretty varied so frankly wasn't sure about it. Personally I'd hope it isn't just to avoid that kind of nightmarish PK going on a rampage.
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Old 2012-08-04, 23:24   Link #139
Clarste
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Maybe not, but if listening is then I'm not in a hurry to count out anything. Seems like skills in this game are pretty varied so frankly wasn't sure about it. Personally I'd hope it isn't just to avoid that kind of nightmarish PK going on a rampage.
Well, as Kirito said the game is fundamentally "fair", at least in how it kills you. If people could break the rules of the game, including "towns are safe", then it wouldn't be very interesting for the mad scientist, now would it?
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Old 2012-08-04, 23:24   Link #140
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Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
In terms of sleep PK couldn't it be possible for someone to level up their lockpick to break into rooms and do this to people even resting in their own homes/inns? If so then no one is really safe in town when unconscious.

Regardless the whole sleep PK issue is unsettling. Bad enough keeping your guard up normally, but have to take caution regarding where you sleep. It does make sense, but I'd just never consider abusing the duel system like that.

In terms of the crime about the only similarity I can find is height. The guy was hanging out by a rope and Yoruko was sitting out a window. A crazy theory that comes to mind is someone throwing weapons from out of town. I mean Asuna saw no one inside that building and clearly no one in that room could have stabbed Yoruko. Of course don't know how the game regards attacking someone from outside of town, does the in town safe still apply? If it only responds when the attack comes from inside the town then that could explain the murders. Of course this could be nuts so whatever, but just something that came to mind.

And yeah, Asuna is cute when sleeping. Got to end on a positive note .
Spoiler for minor spoiler for game mechanics:
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