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Old 2012-08-05, 14:06   Link #921
aigomorla
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperxKingx View Post
They changed some parts, but overall it is still great to watch and a fantastic episode I say 9 out 10 in my book. Hanbie does becomes Sagara's retainer, despite Nobuna getting a tad jealous for whatever reason. Sagara's retainers are loli I believe. Some Loli do fall her him, but some older women like him too. Quite sad that we didn't get to see Nene wet the bed in the episode though.
i thought u were just implying every loli's we came across would fall for the MC.
But i never assumed all his retainers would be loli.

And does he really play with inuchiyo like that?
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Old 2012-08-05, 14:08   Link #922
ReaperxKingx
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He does right in this picture. His retainers so far are all Loli, base on the pictures I got on him.

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Old 2012-08-05, 17:06   Link #923
Mechatrill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aigomorla View Post
oh wow can someone tell me whose correct?

The novel spoilers state:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
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Old 2012-08-05, 17:22   Link #924
Mura
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It seems Japanzai has done chapter one of the manga. Don't really like the character designs of it.
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Old 2012-08-05, 17:43   Link #925
Undertaker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperxKingx View Post
He does right in this picture. His retainers so far are all Loli, base on the pictures I got on him.

Though technically Inuchiyo isn't Sagara's retainer.


As far as Hanbei & Hideyoshi relation in history,

Technically at this time Hideyoshi's doesn't does not have any retainers. (after all at this time he had no land nor was his salary high enough to support one) Hachisuka Masakatsu (Geomon) was a local leader that had a good relation with Hideyoshi and was introduced by him but he wasn't his official retainer until Hideyoshi was given his his castle.

Hanbei was the same, he technically is serves as Nobunaga's loan to Hideyoshi in history, though a a saying was the it was the condition for his surrender by Hanbei. There are two theories for it, first was that Nobunaga and Hanbei had poor relation due to either the way Satou clan fall or personality conflict. This theory is more popular in fiction than among historian. Historian mostly refute this theory mainly due to the fact that Mino take-over was fairly bloodless. Reguardless whether Dousan's will letter existed or not, most Satou retainers switch sides and in the end Nobunaga didn't execute any Satou member only exiled them.

The second (and the more prominent theory) was that Hanbei felt he won't be able perform to his best ability if serving directly under Nobunaga because Nobunaga isn't one who needed strategical advice. This was more supported due to various record shows that Hanbei respects Nobunaga's intellect, and the fact that Kuroda, an equally regarded tactician and strategist, stated that very same reason when he surrendered to Oda clan and became Hideyoshi's retainer.


That being said, most fiction especially in games and anime, they usually just put those two as Hideyoshi's direct retainer to begin with to save the explanation and minimize that need complicate the already complicated Sengoku hierarchy.
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Old 2012-08-05, 17:52   Link #926
ReaperxKingx
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Originally Posted by Undertaker View Post
Though technically Inuchiyo isn't Sagara's retainer.


As far as Hanbei & Hideyoshi relation in history,

Technically at this time Hideyoshi's doesn't does not have any retainers. (after all at this time he had no land nor was his salary high enough to support one) Hachisuka Masakatsu (Geomon) was a local leader that had a good relation with Hideyoshi and was introduced by him but he wasn't his official retainer until Hideyoshi was given his his castle.

Hanbei was the same, he technically is serves as Nobunaga's loan to Hideyoshi in history, though a a saying was the it was the condition for his surrender by Hanbei. There are two theories for it, first was that Nobunaga and Hanbei had poor relation due to either the way Satou clan fall or personality conflict. This theory is more popular in fiction than among historian. Historian mostly refute this theory mainly due to the fact that Mino take-over was fairly bloodless. Reguardless whether Dousan's will letter existed or not, most Satou retainers switch sides and in the end Nobunaga didn't execute any Satou member only exiled them.

The second (and the more prominent theory) was that Hanbei felt he won't be able perform to his best ability if serving directly under Nobunaga because Nobunaga isn't one who needed strategical advice. This was more supported due to various record shows that Hanbei respects Nobunaga's intellect, and the fact that Kuroda, an equally regarded tactician and strategist, stated that very same reason when he surrendered to Oda clan and became Hideyoshi's retainer.


That being said, most fiction especially in games and anime, they usually just put those two as Hideyoshi's direct retainer to begin with to save the explanation and minimize that need complicate the already complicated Sengoku hierarchy.
The more I read your posts, the more I learn about Japan's history. It is really interesting to read.
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Old 2012-08-05, 18:32   Link #927
Undertaker
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It's really nothing, it just happen that I'm also into history especially in Chinese Three Kingdoms and Japanese Sengoku and being Chinese I was able to read some of more detail books on those period and even the actual historical text themselves. It's also interesting to read some book by western historian because sometimes they have different take on things compare to Eastern historians.



Quote:
Originally Posted by aigomorla View Post
oh wow can someone tell me whose correct?

The novel spoilers state:
Spoiler:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechatrill View Post
Spoiler:

Mechatrill was correct that in LV, they gave up the castle to save Hanbei's uncle, Andou Morinari.

In history, Andou was an important Satou retainer, he along with Ujiie Naotomo and Inaba Yoshimichi(Ittetsu) were collectively referred as Nishi Mino Sanninshū (Western Mino Triumvirate) and was entrust with the western half of Mino. He is also Hanbei's father-in-law. (hence the 'uncle' relation in LV)

That being said, he was probably the least accomplished of the three, he was among the slew of exiles by Nobunaga of his old retainers a few years before his death. Those exiles were baffling in history due to the fact that the reasons for their exiles were peculiar and ambiguous at best. The only similarities were they all had high social standing within Oda clan and hasn't had any notable accomplishment or had character flaws. Popular theory is that it was part of Nobunaga's restructuring of Oda clan as well as setting future succession by getting rid of retainers who he see as talent-less yet influential and might stir up trouble.

After Nobunaga's death, Andou gathers up a force and tried to regain power and his social standing. The target he picked was his old friend Inaba Yoshimichi, he and his son were put down fairly quickly by Inaba and his clan was executed follow the loss with exception of his nephew to carry on the bloodline. Inaba went on to serve under Hideyoshi prior to Battle of Shizugatake and continues his successful military career.
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Old 2012-08-05, 18:49   Link #928
ReaperxKingx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertaker View Post
It's really nothing, it just happen that I'm also into history especially in Chinese Three Kingdoms and Japanese Sengoku and being Chinese I was able to read some of more detail books on those period and even the actual historical text themselves. It's also interesting to read some book by western historian because sometimes they have different take on things compare to Eastern historians.








Mechatrill was correct that in LV, they gave up the castle to save Hanbei's uncle, Andou Morinari.

In history, Andou was an important Satou retainer, he along with Ujiie Naotomo and Inaba Yoshimichi(Ittetsu) were collectively referred as Nishi Mino Sanninshū (Western Mino Triumvirate) and was entrust with the western half of Mino. He is also Hanbei's father-in-law. (hence the 'uncle' relation in LV)

That being said, he was probably the least accomplished of the three, he was among the slew of exiles by Nobunaga of his ole retainers a few year before. Those exiles were baffling in history due to the fact that the their reasons for exiles were peculiar and ambiguous at best. The only similarities are they all had high social standing within Oda clan and hasn't had any notable accomplishment or had character flaws. Popular theory is that it was part of Nobunaga's restructuring of Oda clan as well as setting future succession by getting rid retainer who he see as talent-less yet influential subordinates and those who might stir up trouble.

After Nobunaga's death, Andou gathers up a force and tried to regain power and his social standing. The target he picked was his old friend Inaba Yoshimichi, he and his son was was put down by Inaba fairly quickly and his clan was executed follow the loss with exception of his nephew to carry on the bloodline. Inaba went on to serve under Hideyoshi prior to Battle of Shizugatake and continues his successful military career.
Really, is having yourself known in Japan really worth you life? Andou made a poor choice I think, in the original history.
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Old 2012-08-05, 18:57   Link #929
Athena
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I might've overlooked it, but does Musashi appear somewhere?
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Old 2012-08-05, 19:49   Link #930
Undertaker
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You mean the swordsman Miyamoto Musashi?

If you mean him, I don't remember reading him and I don't think he'll make appearance considering there are more important Daimyo and Samurai left to be included.

Also he is basically from a different generation. His alleged birth year is 1584. If we go by taking of Inabayama(Gifu) castle at 1567, the current anime point, that's 17 years before his birth. Date appeared much earlier as well, but his birth year is 1967, still makes somewhat sense with the accelerated timeline.

Besides there are many swordsmen who are just as famous and just good as if not more so during that period, included the 13th Shogun, Ashikaga Yoshiteru , whose death was skimped though in this series. He is nicknamed 剣聖将軍 (Kensei Shogun). Both of his master/teachers were also considered among the greatest:

Kamiizumi Nobutsuna, a well-known tactician whose being widely considered as the one of the greatest if not the greatest swordsman in Japanese history, and was credited as the founder Shinkage-ryū, one of the 3-disciplines that shapes current Japanese martial arts and swordsmanship and he also had many famous disciples. His most well-known event was by defeating Yagyū Munetoshi and made him his disciple by defeat him multiple times when Kamiizumii, an upstart at time, came challenge him. Yagyū Munetoshi later became Tokugawa clan's swordsmanship instructor and widely considered as the best swordsman during Musashi's time. His son, Kamiizumi yasutsuna, wass also referred to as a master swordsman (Kensei)

Tsukahara Bokuden, who created Shintō-ryū, another of the 3-disciplines. He was noted participated in 37 battles with 212 kills along with 19 matches with real swords and withot receiving any wounds. He also introduced techniques such as Kashima no tachi and Ichi no tachi, which Ashikaga Yoshiteru was able to learn. He was also the teacher of Imagawa Ujizane, Yoshimoto's son, and Kitabatake Tomonori, both are well-known swordsman Daimyo and were regarded as Kengo (great swordsman).
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Last edited by Undertaker; 2012-08-05 at 20:50.
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Old 2012-08-05, 20:25   Link #931
Sumeragi
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I'll post the page numbers after I get back from this business trip. Don't have the files with me right now.
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Old 2012-08-05, 20:29   Link #932
ReaperxKingx
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Thank you, I am very excited that this project may get approved soon.
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Old 2012-08-05, 21:34   Link #933
fazri
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when i look hanbei in anime and in ilustration.
"ahhh... this girl really worth for bullying she really tickle my S personality."
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Old 2012-08-05, 21:37   Link #934
ReaperxKingx
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Originally Posted by fazri View Post
when i look hanbei in anime and in ilustration.
"ahhh... this girl really worth for bullying she really tickle my S personality."
Hey that is not nice, why would you bully such a cute thing?
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Old 2012-08-05, 21:46   Link #935
Sumeragi
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Because one would want to lick those salty crystal tears?
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Old 2012-08-05, 22:15   Link #936
willx
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Because one would want to lick those salty crystal tears?
The tears of children are the best spice?
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Old 2012-08-05, 22:44   Link #937
chad001
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...Disturbed.

In other news, a decent episode, little slow here and there, but overall, still high production value, and they managed to squeeze in some action.

I did laugh when Nagamasa said he'd take Nobuna for himself though, considering the circumstances...

No Sunomata though until next week T.T
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Old 2012-08-05, 22:51   Link #938
fazri
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when i look hanbei in anime and in ilustration.
"ahhh... this girl really worth for bullying she really tickle my S personality."
i want make her...huahahahahaha.....
hahhhhh.....hahhhh...hahhhh
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Old 2012-08-05, 22:53   Link #939
Master Assassin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperxKingx View Post
Quite sad that we didn't get to see Nene wet the bed in the episode though.
Wait, this was explained before? I might've missed it.
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Old 2012-08-05, 23:00   Link #940
kazzuya13
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Is the yagyuu clan make an appearance. Cause in history they serve the Shogun Tokugawa Ietsu(who is also in this LN).
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