AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Current Series > Sword Art Online

Notices

View Poll Results: Critique of Episode 05
10 out of 10: Near Perfect... 35 22.88%
9 out of 10 : Excellent... 41 26.80%
8 out of 10 : Very Good... 29 18.95%
7 out of 10 : Good... 30 19.61%
6 out of 10 : Average... 8 5.23%
5 out of 10 : Below Average... 2 1.31%
4 out of 10 : Poor... 4 2.61%
3 out of 10 : Bad... 1 0.65%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad... 2 1.31%
1 out of 10 : Torturous... 1 0.65%
Voters: 153. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2012-08-08, 18:25   Link #281
Adigard
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Incidentally, if we're bringing up the topic of fake deaths, is it clear that Griselda is really dead? When Yoruko explained the story, she just said that "they found out she died".
The anime has thus far avoided a very easy answer to some of that question, by avoiding the wall o' names seen in Ep1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
In any case, I would think the next thing for Kirito and Asuna to investigate is the situation surrounding Griselda's death, which may provide more clues into who is responsible for this whole affair.
Will they? I got the feeling they were less interested in the 'theft' and more the 'method'. Hard to tell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hyl View Post
How many MMO's have to played to call it "most "MMO have a fake death skill". One of the few that i have seen was from Ragnarok Online though.
WoW has one as well, and since the author played RO it's possible he's taking it from there. It's worth pointing out if that's all it is, it'd be a pretty lame 'mystery' as it'd be introducing a magical "new" thing to circumvent the 'locked room' aspects.
Adigard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-08, 18:26   Link #282
hyl
Hello, again
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix View Post
There is actually no proof she died - Most MMos have a fake death skill and I suppose she had it. its pretty much the easierst way to pull this ciime off, especially since all impiortant information came from her.
How many MMO's have to played to call it "most "MMO have a fake death skill". One of the few that i have seen was from Ragnarok Online though.
hyl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-08, 18:44   Link #283
AC-Phoenix
Detective
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyl View Post
How many MMO's have to played to call it "most "MMO have a fake death skill". One of the few that i have seen was from Ragnarok Online though.
Enough to make such a statement.

Mabinogi and WOW for example both have such a skill, Ragnarok, as you have stated, has one too, and considering how SAO even has a separate skill for tracking who built an item it is very plausible that it also has a fake death skill, especially if you consider that there is no magic - thus no healer.

The lack of a healing class is imho something you need to compensate for and a Fake Death skill is the best way to do this.
__________________
Those who forget about the past are condemned to repeat it - Santayana

Sidenote: I'm seemingly too dumb for my current keyboard, so if you see the same character twice in a row, when it doesn't belong there just ignore it.
AC-Phoenix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-08, 18:46   Link #284
hyl
Hello, again
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Yeah but out of 25 MMO's that i have tried/played over the past decade, only a few of them have such a skill. I woudn't call it a skill that most MMO's have though.
hyl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-08, 19:07   Link #285
AC-Phoenix
Detective
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Well, that's a bit convenient too, in the sense that such a skill has never been mentioned before. They showed pretty clearly her falling from the ledge and disappearing just like everyone else does when they "die". I suppose the way she turned and fell out of the window was a bit weird, and the fact that she deliberately sat by the open window was pretty convenient (if she was counting on someone to throw the knife at that moment, it would make sense). Plus her over-the-top explanation of the "ghost" possibility was a bit strange (like she suddenly snapped). It is also true that she was strangely insistent on summoning Schmidt to make him aware of the situation (does this game not have any sort of internal messaging system? )...

I guess, if this is true, it means she certainly has an accomplice. When they were discussing who had made the sword, she made it clear that Grimrock could have given the sword to someone else. If she's in on the crime, I guess that could either be trying to cover for Grimrock, or some sort of subconscious honest admission.

Incidentally, if we're bringing up the topic of fake deaths, is it clear that Griselda is really dead? When Yoruko explained the story, she just said that "they found out she died". If, by some chance, she isn't really dead, and this is some sort of plan to keep the ring, then I suppose that opens up some other possibilities. But, still, why go after people now, six months later? Also, it's at least true that Schmidt also thinks she's dead, and I'm not sure I can believe he's involved in this given the situation.

In any case, I would think the next thing for Kirito and Asuna to investigate is the situation surrounding Griselda's death, which may provide more clues into who is responsible for this whole affair.
Yeah, it would make the mystery pretty lame though, if you consider Kirito the detective everything he saw can be taken as absolute true information.
Follwoing that line of thinking he only saw the knife in her back but never how it ended up there.
The idea of a one hit kill is also a bit ridiculous considering how she is basically on the same floor Kirito, who is probably the highest level player atm is.

Maybe its just me having found a plothole then though:
A month before (EP 4) Krirot had according to his own statement around 15'000 life points with a regeneration of 600, so we can assume that he has a lot more now.
Assuming he is the highest level player in the game and how that girl was on the same stage he was their level difference can be a maximum of ~ 10 Level.
I personally think it was even less.

Which brings us the the possible plothole and the reason I believe she has a fake death or at least a very advanced stealth skill:
Considering everything I said above she would have at least 15 000 Life points, so its nearly impossible that she died from just one hit with throwing knife. Don't forget what Kirito said: No matter what yoou think about the game its pretty fair.
So I personally doubt that someone around the same level as this girl could one hit her.

The other possibility is that the perpetrator had a highly advanced stealth skill so no one was able to see them, which would be imho pretty lame.

Schmidt is btw a witness so what he says doesn't necessarily have to be true. That does however not mean that he is lying he might just tell his view which is still allowed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hyl View Post
Yeah but out of 25 MMO's that i have tried/played over the past decade, only a few of them have such a skill. I woudn't call it a skill that most MMO's have though.
More than enough have them though, reasons to believe SAO has one too are in my other post and this one.
__________________
Those who forget about the past are condemned to repeat it - Santayana

Sidenote: I'm seemingly too dumb for my current keyboard, so if you see the same character twice in a row, when it doesn't belong there just ignore it.
AC-Phoenix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-08, 19:26   Link #286
Vocah
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
You don't have to take her being on the 57th floor too seriously. The maincity of the floor seems to have good restaurants so it wouldn't be unlikely that lower level players would visit it to eat.
Vocah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-08, 19:27   Link #287
relentlessflame
 
*Administrator
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix View Post
Considering everything I said above she would have at least 15 000 Life points, so its nearly impossible that she died from just one hit with throwing knife. Don't forget what Kirito said: No matter what yoou think about the game its pretty fair.
So I personally doubt that someone around the same level as this girl could one hit her.
I think the thing that would have killed her wasn't the knife, but the fall from that height. The knife was just enough to throw her off-balance and cause her to fall out the window. (Of course, this is counting on the fact that she would fall backwards and not forwards, which is why her fall is still a bit weird.)

(The other thing about both this weapon and the other one is that they have those sort of red sparkles flying around them. Is that supposed to indicate that the weapon is enchanted somehow, or is that just supposed to be a sort of blood effect? I guess we'll see...)
__________________
[...]
relentlessflame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-08, 19:29   Link #288
AC-Phoenix
Detective
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vocah View Post
You don't have to take her being on the 57th floor too seriously. The floor seems to have good restaurants so it wouldn't be unlikely that lower level players would visit it to eat.
That is true if you assume that whatever means of going up you use always bring you to a safe zone first.
One of her former Guild mates was at the strategy meeting though so you can assume that she is not that far behind him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
I think the thing that would have killed her wasn't the knife, but the fall from that height. The knife was just enough to throw her off-balance and cause her to fall out the window. (Of course, this is counting on the fact that she would fall backwards and not forwards, which is why her fall is still a bit weird.)

(The other thing about both this weapon and the other one is that they have those sort of red sparkles flying around them. Is that supposed to indicate that the weapon is enchanted somehow, or is that just supposed to be a sort of blood effect? I guess we'll see...)
It might be a skill or assassin faction that allows to kill players inside towns, Kririto wouldn't know about it since he doesn't appear to be the type for joining an assassin faction.

And yes the way she fell was pretty wierd - jsut so everyone could see her stabbed.
Anothe reason I think her death is fake.

Edit: another funny fact is, which might be just a drawing error though, that the rope the first guy was hung with was still taut after he died, so a stealth/fake death skill is a pretty good guess imho.
__________________
Those who forget about the past are condemned to repeat it - Santayana

Sidenote: I'm seemingly too dumb for my current keyboard, so if you see the same character twice in a row, when it doesn't belong there just ignore it.
AC-Phoenix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-08, 19:36   Link #289
Vocah
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Well, since there is always only one Teleport Gate per floor, I assume that it will be in the maincity of it.

We know that he is a frontliner, but the others are unknown
Vocah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-08, 20:40   Link #290
Adigard
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix View Post
One of her former Guild mates was at the strategy meeting though so you can assume that she is not that far behind him.
On that point, Kirito recognized her former guildmate by name from the front line meetings... Neither Kirito nor Asuna recognized her or her friend.. It's safe to assume she's simply here to meet her now dead friend, and that neither of them were front-liners.

Earlier in the ep she stated that the Golden Apple guild was all mid-level players, no?
Adigard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-08, 20:57   Link #291
AC-Phoenix
Detective
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adigard View Post
On that point, Kirito recognized her former guildmate by name from the front line meetings... Neither Kirito nor Asuna recognized her or her friend.. It's safe to assume she's simply here to meet her now dead friend, and that neither of them were front-liners.

Earlier in the ep she stated that the Golden Apple guild was all mid-level players, no?
This is part of mystery stories though: A witness doesn't have to tell the truth. Kiritos cat guild also thought they are the same level as him while the truth was different. That mid-level statement was also from 6 months ago many things could have changed until then.
Both deaths are strange no matter how you look at them, especially the last one.

While falling damage would be a good way to explain it it actually contradicts the fact that the only way to die inside safe areas is through duels so the falling damage couldn't have killed her.
A one -hit with such a small knife is imho just strange.

The other one must have recieved a lot of damage within a short time span too, which could be part of the spears ability as the guy tried to pull it out.
Assuming he really died he probably lost more life to the barbs than the the attack itself.
__________________
Those who forget about the past are condemned to repeat it - Santayana

Sidenote: I'm seemingly too dumb for my current keyboard, so if you see the same character twice in a row, when it doesn't belong there just ignore it.
AC-Phoenix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-08, 20:59   Link #292
Clarste
Human
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Age: 28
The guild fell apart 6 months ago, and since then Schmidtt has been working harder, and joined a higher level guild. It's hardly an uncommon story.

Quote:
This is part of mystery stories though: A witness doesn't have to tell the truth. Kiritos cat guild also thought they are the same level as him while the truth was different. That mid-level statement was also from 6 months ago many things could have changed until then.
True, but you also can't just make up facts and assume they're evidence. I agree that the deaths are pretty suspicious, but it's not because Yoruko could have lied about her level.
Clarste is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-08, 21:06   Link #293
Adigard
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
The guild fell apart 6 months ago, and since then Schmidtt has been working harder, and joined a higher level guild. It's hardly an uncommon story.
Or Schmidtt bought his way into his new guild with the ring as his membership dues. Which is no more uncommon, sadly...
Adigard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-08, 21:15   Link #294
AC-Phoenix
Detective
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
The guild fell apart 6 months ago, and since then Schmidtt has been working harder, and joined a higher level guild. It's hardly an uncommon story.



True, but you also can't just make up facts and assume they're evidence. I agree that the deaths are pretty suspicious, but it's not because Yoruko could have lied about her level.
Where did I make up facts?
I merely brought up that she could have lied about her level, which, as Kirito has proven, is possible.
The fact that a duel is the only way to die inside a safe zone was btw stated by the charaters themselves so its not made up either, which is why falling damage couldn't have killed her unless she was currently in a duel.
And even if she really was in a duel - why would she turn around to fall out of the window and show everyone the dagger instead of falling backwards/forward.

if you are talking about what I said about the rope: It really was still taut - you can actually rewatch the episode and look at the scene where Asuna and kirito talk about the crime next to it.
__________________
Those who forget about the past are condemned to repeat it - Santayana

Sidenote: I'm seemingly too dumb for my current keyboard, so if you see the same character twice in a row, when it doesn't belong there just ignore it.
AC-Phoenix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-08, 21:19   Link #295
Clarste
Human
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix View Post
Where did I make up facts?
I merely brought up that she could have lied about her level, which, as Kirito has proven, is possible.
The fact that a duel is the only way to die inside a safe zone was btw stated by the charaters themselves so its not made up either, which is why falling damage couldn't have killed her unless she was currently in a duel.
And even if she really was in a duel - why would she turn around to fall out of the window and show everyone the dagger instead of falling backwards/forward.

if you are talking about what I said about the rope: It really was still taut - you can actually rewatch the episode and look at the scene where Asuna and kirito talk about the crime next to it.
You assumed that Yoruko was high level, used that as evidence for her death being suspicious, and when told that she probably wasn't high level based on her story declared her story to be a lie. Which means your original evidence of her death being suspicious was based on a fact you completely made up. Your reasoning for her lying is completely circular, since the idea of her lying was brought up afterwards to defend your theory. You modified the evidence the fit your theory, rather than basing your theory on the evidence.
Clarste is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-08, 21:32   Link #296
Adigard
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix View Post
which is why falling damage couldn't have killed her unless she was currently in a duel.
Not to nit pick too hard, but technically we see someone die in EP3 when the guild leader of the Black Cats jumps to his (most likely) death. Now the clouds below suggest a MUCH larger fall than you'd get from a two or three story building (from the scene transitions in the EP we can assume the inn is a two story building).

It's a pretty minor point, but apparently you can die in a safe zone from other things.
Adigard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-08, 21:39   Link #297
Clarste
Human
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Age: 28
If you're falling off the castle, you're no longer in town. Most games that I know of have a different mechanic for "bottomless pits" than normal falling damage anyway.

Last edited by Clarste; 2012-08-08 at 22:06.
Clarste is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-08, 21:39   Link #298
ronelm2000
Moe Kyun~!
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Philippines
Send a message via Skype™ to ronelm2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix View Post
While falling damage would be a good way to explain it it actually contradicts the fact that the only way to die inside safe areas is through duels so the falling damage couldn't have killed her.
A one -hit with such a small knife is imho just strange.
I don't know why, but I think that there's still falling damage in Safe Zones. The only things Safe Zones avoid (i think) are debuffs and player attacks.
ronelm2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-08, 21:47   Link #299
AC-Phoenix
Detective
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
You assumed that Yoruko was high level, used that as evidence for her death being suspicious, and when told that she probably wasn't high level based on her story declared her story to be a lie. Which means your original evidence of her death being suspicious was based on a fact you completely made up. Your reasoning for her lying is completely circular, since the idea of her lying was brought up afterwards to defend your theory. You modified the evidence the fit your theory, rather than basing your theory on the evidence.
I didn't declare her lying I said she COULD be lying as we know that it is possible and have also seen it happen before.
Another thing is that she never actually told us her current level I'm stating possibilities here, not facts that is what theorizing is about.

The only fact I've stated is that witnesses and culprits are allowed to lie - everything other than that was never stated as being a fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adigard View Post
Not to nit pick too hard, but technically we see someone die in EP3 when the guild leader of the Black Cats jumps to his (most likely) death. Now the clouds below suggest a MUCH larger fall than you'd get from a two or three story building (from the scene transitions in the EP we can assume the inn is a two story building).

It's a pretty minor point, but apparently you can die in a safe zone from other things.
I'm not sure if the Black cats's leader was still considered being inside the safe zone..

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronelm2000 View Post
I don't know why, but I think that there's still falling damage in Safe Zones. The only things Safe Zones avoid (i think) are debuffs and player attacks.
Possible, its just a theory after all.
My understanding of the dialog was that you can take damage, but your life can't go down to zero unless you are in a duel.
__________________
Those who forget about the past are condemned to repeat it - Santayana

Sidenote: I'm seemingly too dumb for my current keyboard, so if you see the same character twice in a row, when it doesn't belong there just ignore it.
AC-Phoenix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-08, 22:06   Link #300
Clarste
Human
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix View Post
I didn't declare her lying I said she COULD be lying as we know that it is possible and have also seen it happen before.
Another thing is that she never actually told us her current level I'm stating possibilities here, not facts that is what theorizing is about.

The only fact I've stated is that witnesses and culprits are allowed to lie - everything other than that was never stated as being a fact.
Your argument is still based on it.
Clarste is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:39.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.