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Old 2012-07-29, 16:45   Link #1541
LystAP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DezoPenguin View Post
At least the good news is, if such things exist, they're unlikely to be directed at Earth. Mainly because, people rarely send out military weaponry to deal with a bug problem... (Of course, that's because bug problems can be dealt with in other ways... )
Nonsense!



I can imagine the BETA's Creators coming to Earth, and freak out at all the uncontrolled Carbon-based "robots" running around.
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Old 2012-08-04, 02:30   Link #1542
Laevatein
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Comment seen on the SRW boards:

"This series needs to be in Super Robot Wars so we can blow up the BETA with Mazinger, Getter, and Gundams."
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Old 2012-08-04, 02:50   Link #1543
encia
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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
They're not weapons, they're biological mining machines. That's what induces worry. If these are miners, what the hell do the weapons look like?
From EP02, BETA reminds me of Stargate Atlantis's Wraith and Aliens (movie).
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Old 2012-08-05, 02:20   Link #1544
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Originally Posted by encia View Post
From EP02, BETA reminds me of Stargate Atlantis's Wraith and Aliens (movie).
The Wraith were more humanoid though. These BETA remind me of the "Angels" in Neon Genesis Evangelion. (With the whole eradication of humanity, freaky appearance and all)
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Old 2012-08-06, 09:10   Link #1545
@GEMC
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Episode 6

The episode 6 is great!!! Beach, Girls, Swimsuit and Princess Yui is so cute in the episode
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Old 2012-08-10, 11:24   Link #1546
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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...oryofanime.jpg

I have... creative disagreements with this show.
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Old 2012-08-10, 13:25   Link #1547
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Originally Posted by Hagoshod View Post
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...oryofanime.jpg

I have... creative disagreements with this show.
Pretty funny to read. Ellipse and Izumi and fighting hahaha.
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Old 2012-08-10, 17:59   Link #1548
greensoulreaper
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Originally Posted by gbatemper View Post
Pretty funny to read. Ellipse and Izumi and fighting hahaha.
Not that I'm taking anyone's side, but the show actually makes sense to me even though I've never played the VN. But don't go and tell them that...
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Old 2012-08-10, 20:24   Link #1549
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I'm not saying the first two episodes make the rest of Total Eclipse difficult to understand in itself, because the proper "plot" of Total Eclipse honestly isn't that hard to follow. It's shallow as all hell. It's 20 minutes a week of girls shaking their asses at the camera while cool-looking robots fight each other in training exercises completely void of any real threat or tension.

My problem is it's an absolutely baffling way to set up a series that's completely separated from the actually dangerous environment established in the first two episodes. Why even bother putting effort into it if you know you're going to stop trying the moment you get to episode 3?

Hey, you know what the last series was that started as a fun moeblob romp before getting brutally serious a couple episodes in?

Madoka.

Do you know what separates Madoka from Total Eclipse?

It actually continued to be serious and constantly built on the Mami situation, whereas this piece of crap used almost the same set up (cute girls getting eaten) as an excuse to turn the series into a mindless toy commercial.

Oh, and let's not forget developing a main character with an extremely emotional origin story so she has tons of audience empathy and she's the only remotely compelling part of this snorefest, but then SURPRISE she's actually going to be a supporting character from now on!

Last edited by Hagoshod; 2012-08-10 at 21:07.
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Old 2012-08-10, 20:39   Link #1550
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To be fair, it's only Episode 6 (edit: fixed!) out of a two-cour series. After the teaser in the first two episodes, it's now stepped back and is going through a re-build of the characters and the plot. There is plenty of time for the story to escalate again and build tension that "lives up to" the first few episodes. The tease of the first two episodes seems to me to be precisely to remind you that something bigger is coming down the road. (I say this with no familiarity of the source material, of course; just my impression.)
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Last edited by relentlessflame; 2012-08-10 at 21:17.
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Old 2012-08-10, 22:03   Link #1551
DoomRavager
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@Hagoshod: ...honestly, starting very slow and building up to more serious things suddenly escalating out of the blue around the middle is something that the original Muv-Luv did too (and I presume that statement is sufficiently general as to not be considered an inappropriate game spoiler).

But you seem more upset about being somehow 'cheated' by the outright shift in tone from the first two episodes than about the idea that they're somehow going to drag out low-threat happy fun times for an entire two cours series. (Leaving aside the fact that there's sufficient precedent for other works being low urgency and training everywhere forever at the start and then running into some real plot and more serious stuff happening later.) You argue that they should have continued with the grimderp and all, but seeing as the actual source material wasn't grimderp from the very start and that's fundamentally what they have to follow, the argument should not be that they should have kept being dark and urgent from the prologue onwards, but that the prologue shouldn't have dropped right into DARKNESS if they knew they weren't going to stick with it for very long and would have to put it aside for later.

You know another thing that separates Madoka from Total Eclipse? Madoka was written to be anime original right from the start so they could properly determine the course and pacing, with Total Eclipse they had to somehow try to shoehorn a mecha fanservice sidestory for gameplayers into a useable product that could at least convince new viewers to give it a go, which is not a very easy thing to do.

So maybe you'd be happier if they, I don't know, started right from episode 3 straight from the beginning or something, though that would leave people a bit lost expositionwise. Or if they didn't decide to animate a sidestory about test pilots whose job is not to kill aliens but whose job is to chill out and fly prototypes around completely void of any real threat or tension besides maybe crashing from technical faults so that they can show off robots that didn't get shown in the game. Or if the exposition prologue hadn't been such a tonal shift, but then you'd have to wait even longer for anything serious to happen (and then you argue "Well they shouldn't have had anything serious happen if we would have to wait one more plot arc and an intermission for anything serious to happen again!", and they wanted to take the opportunity to fill in one of the heroines' backgrounds and establish the BETA anyway.

But considering you already dropped the show long ago, I don't see why you're continuing to complain. Your views have already been aired repeatedly and responded to repeatedly. And I still dislike your insinuation that Muv-Luv fans don't know what Muv-Luv is about. Perhaps other people continuing to enjoy the show grates on your nerves or something.

I guess this isn't a particularly newcomer-friendly show, that is premise-wise, exposition-wise, "reasons to give a fuck about what's happening"-wise.

Last edited by DoomRavager; 2012-08-10 at 22:27.
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Old 2012-08-10, 22:52   Link #1552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomRavager View Post
So maybe you'd be happier if they, I don't know, started right from episode 3 straight from the beginning or something, though that would leave people a bit lost expositionwise.
This is where I seriously get lost every time someone tries to use this argument. What critical plot exposition would we be missing if the series had started directly from episode 3?

And I'm being completely honest.

Were we lost when we didn't get two episodes exploring the backstories and relationships of those people the BETA killed in the moon in 1967? No.

Were we lost when we didn't get two episodes drawing out how the BETA conquered most of Europe and Russia in the 1980s? No.

Were we lost when we didn't get two episodes explaining the buildup to fall of Kyushu and the fate of Dead Boyfriend-chan's boyfriend? No.

So why was it absolutely necessary to tell the tragic story of this doomed cadet squadron fighting in the Battle of Kyoto in 1998, when the brutal demise of these characters and the current state of Kyoto has almost absolutely nothing to do with any of the main cast members once we hit the show's main plot of unconcerned international chuckleheads in the Middle of Nowhere, USA goofing around in simulations all day?

Here's an idea. We're shown numerous scenes of the main characters hanging out in briefing rooms. Use these scenes in addition to brief flashbacks to explain what the BETA are, how they have different classes, and where they currently stand in the whole "world conquest" scene.

There. I just easily found a way to deliver your plot exposition in a way that actually makes sense in the show's tone and setting.

Quote:
And I still dislike your insinuation that Muv-Luv fans don't know what Muv-Luv is about.
When was the last time I said that?

Quote:
"reasons to give a fuck about what's happening"-wise.
As someone who went into the TE anime completely blind and only researched the rest of Muv-Luv because of it, let me tell you that it doesn't help when the shows gives a very impactful reason why the viewer should give a fuck, but then goes NOPE LOL WE'RE GONNA DO SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT in the opening scene of the third episode.

Last edited by Hagoshod; 2012-08-10 at 23:26.
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Old 2012-08-10, 23:20   Link #1553
DoomRavager
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What critical plot exposition would we be missing if the series had started directly from episode 3?
Just about everything to do with the BETA, Japan being Imperial (which is a central part of Yui's character), etc. The question of how you could alter episodes 3 onwards to make up for the lack of the first two episodes is a different one from what information would be missing without those two.

Quote:
So why was it absolutely necessary to tell the tragic story of this doomed cadet squadron fighting in the Battle of Kyoto in 1998...
As was already said. Mix of fanservice for game players, conveniently doing random exposition while they could since it makes sense for cadets to have to learn things, setting up a main character's backstory and characterization and survivor guilt etc. It's not "absolutely necessary" for them to have done it that way, if you argue they should do exposition in briefing rooms and maybe give Yui a flashback arc later in, but it's the way they chose to go about it for whatever reason. There's also how the director is an inexperienced hack who's never directed a mecha show before and maybe he decided it would be easier to shove anime-original exposition it in a self-contained prologue than insert stuff into the source material.

With that said, I won't argue that replacing the first couple of episodes with random briefings throughout the first few episodes could not work in an infodump sense, depending on how well it's integrated and spread out so as to not feel like it's been shoved in for the sake of it. One of the complaints people have with the original Muv-Luv is how the plot progression comes to a screeching halt so they can sit you down in a briefing room and deliver entire lectures on the BETA, TSFs and military tactics anyway, because you were playing a pilot being lectured on critical information on the BETA he needed to know.

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When was the last time I said that?
A long time ago, and you never took it back either.

Quote:
As someone who went into the TE anime completely blind and only researched the rest of Muv-Luv because of it, let me tell you that it doesn't help when the shows gives a very impactful reason why the viewer should give a fuck, but then goes NOPE LOL WE'RE GONNA DO SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT in the opening scene of the third episode.
Titty Eclipse in and of itself isn't inherently something that offers anything that anyone with no experience with ML has any reason to give two shits about. They tried to do something with the prologue, you say you don't think it works and you've explained why you don't. Fine, I can understand your reasoning.

But what the show simply cannot do because of the constraints of the source and what you've been arguing the show should have done to continue straight on being as apocalyptic as the second episode was onwards right all the way through. Instead, just argue they shouldn't have had the prologue at all and you'll have more success. (Which you've already done I guess)

And the show has plenty of time to build back to episode 2 levels of "goddamn it we're all fucked". (Then you argue that it shouldn't have to take time to build back to that if that was how the goddamn second episode was anyway). Sorry.

And again. Considering you already dropped the show long ago, I don't see why you're continuing to complain as much as you can. Your views have already been aired repeatedly and responded to repeatedly, there's not really much ground left in this discussion that hasn't already been covered. Does other people continuing to enjoy the show grates on your nerves or something?

Last edited by DoomRavager; 2012-08-10 at 23:37.
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Old 2012-08-10, 23:40   Link #1554
greensoulreaper
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Well, to me the first two episodes did their job in introducing the series to newcomers like myself; we learn about the BETA, how the war starts, and what the TSF are. It also gives you a general idea of the situation - that there is a threat out there, and that it's not going to be sunshine and rainbows when it comes to dealing with these BETA. Heads will drop and people literally turn into snacks for these things. Basically we get a sample of what Total Eclipse is supposed to be about - a bloody war in which the conclusion can decide the fate of the entire human race, and humanity has to do everything in their power to stop this near-impossible to defeat foe - by working together to develop better and stronger weapons they call the TSF. But of course it's not always going to be about the fighting. You got to have episodes/chapters/whatever to show to the audience what kind of people your characters are, what goes on in their minds, and why they act or do the things they do...so I don't think ep. 1 and 2 are pointless. Episodes 3 to 5 so far have all been on the Yukon base, and we don't really get a sense of what this war they're talking about is from watching those alone, or why this XFJ project is so important. That is why I think ep. 1 and 2 were good for bringing us into the story in the first place.
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Old 2012-08-10, 23:52   Link #1555
Hagoshod
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomRavager View Post
Titty Eclipse in and of itself isn't inherently something that offers anything that anyone with no experience with ML has any reason to give two shits about.
So... don't spend two episodes trying to shove in serious drama and psychological character development where it clearly doesn't belong in the first place?

I don't know. You're the one calling it Titty Eclipse now. When you flip back and forth like that, you're kind of forcing me to go back to that one thing I said that one time.

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Originally Posted by DoomRavager View Post
But what the show simply cannot do because of the constraints of the source and what you've been arguing the show should have done to continue straight on being as apocalyptic as the second episode was onwards right all the way through.
What constraints? What prevented them from, I don't know, using the first two episodes to bridge into a Alternative adaption (which sounds like it's a much more logical continuation of episode 2, from what I've read), or going the totally anime-original route and using an anime-original cast to tell the story of the fight for Japan? They seemed to be doing fine with that (aside from using a younger version of a character from one of the light novels) for the two-part pilot.

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Instead, just argue they shouldn't have had the prologue at all and you'll have more success. (Which you've already done I guess)
But here's the thing.

I like the first episodes. I want to see more of the Kyoto/Japan arc, or at least something that continues the same style. Now that I've seen them as my initiation into Muv-Luv, there is absolutely nothing you can do to get me to give a shit about anyone on that Alaskan base other than Yui. The entire time I'm watching them, the only thought on my mind is "Sooo... we're going to address that Kyoto thing eventually, right? RIGHT?" Why should I bash something that I like?

And that's the problem. The first two episodes have essentially ruined the rest of the series for me. We abruptly cut away from Kyoto so we can watch the obnoxious shenanigans of the Alaska crew, and that's just fucking distracting. I now actively hate all of these characters when, if the show had just started from episode 3 like it should have if this was the story the animators always wanted to tell, I would just be indifferent about them because I wouldn't have earlier (and much better) material to compare them to.
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Old 2012-08-10, 23:52   Link #1556
Micropod
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@DoomRavager

If you ask me, your back and forth style of argument (arguing against yourself in brackets) makes it sound like you desperately want to agree with him but your 'fan status'-triggered enjoyment of seeing the battle of Kyoto and Yui's backstory wins out or something.

Hard to argue that things could pick up later when you aren't allowed to reference the source material.
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Old 2012-08-11, 00:01   Link #1557
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What was stopping them was that they couldn't get people to fund an Alternative adaptation which was what they really wanted, but eventually managed to convince sponsors to squeeze out some cash for an adaptation of a shorter sidestory i.e. Total Eclipse instead, part of which was based on using TSF sales to convince them it could work. They didn't agree to fund Alternative or their own anime-original story, they agreed to fund Total Eclipse which was seen as the least risky option financially (and the frequent off-model issues should be an indication that they are having budget issues even then).

And me calling it Titty Eclipse has nothing to do with you going back to that that one thing you said one time because even ML fans call it Titty Eclipse, seeing as Total Eclipse =/= Muv-Luv Alternative in the premise and story they're trying to tell, because it really is just expanded worldbuilding and fanservice (both of the mecha tech kind and the usual kind) for people who played Alternative. The same reason why it would be hard for any newcomer to give a crap about those dudes in Alaska if they had just dropped right in. Assuming we're referring to the same one thing from that one time, because you're not being very clear.

Quote:
which sounds like it's a much more logical continuation of episode 2, from what I've read
You'd be surprised. I can say almost for certain that if they'd started with those two episodes and then segued into Alternative, you'd have almost the same complaints for about half the show or so, with them running around doing training and character and backstory building for quite a while without much of a trace of danger before they really get thrown into the front lines of the war "in the same style", except you'd be even more lost backstory-wise regarding the main character and primary heroine(s). The original fight for Japan kind of doesn't really matter any more in either Total Eclipse or Alternative, aside from the backstory including a part of the outcome of Operation Lucifer to retake Japan which provided certain somethings that both Total Eclipse and Alternative needed as part of their plots, so the depiction of Kyoto really is primarily fanservice.

(is that considered inappropriate game information? I mean it's pretty vague and doesn't really give anything away. I'll delete it if it's too much.)


So sorry, it's unlikely they're really going to get back to Kyoto, or the retaking of Japan, since the whole thing was originally just backstory to begin with. Certainly there'll be other large scale engagements against the BETA in the future, but they won't be about Kyoto. So when you say you want to see more of how they bounced back after Kyoto, all I can say is that I'm sorry you feel that way, and hope there'll be more BETA soon.

But you've dropped the show anyway, so what does hating Argos Test Flight or any future events matter to you?

@Micropod: I resent that first statement but the latter is somewhat true.

Last edited by DoomRavager; 2012-08-11 at 00:47.
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Old 2012-08-11, 00:25   Link #1558
Sheba
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Thumbs down

I am sure Alternative would meet the same complaints as Total Eclipse. "OMG this is like Soranowoto! With bodysuits!!!!" 6 episodes and we know it is 2 cours, and a ln reader have posted the rough outline of the ln plot. Be patient people!!
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Old 2012-08-11, 00:43   Link #1559
Von Himmel
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I don't think it's wise to not air Extra first if they want to air Alternative--- which in turn, will make many people start complaining it all over again.

Anyway, it has a different type of settings than Alternative since I guess it focuses much to mecha development and their own love story.. both of which that I don't really mind following. While it seems to be going further than what the first two episodes show to us, at least it gives us some information on how terrifying the BETA is. It's more like a history briefing than giving the summary of the entire plotline for me
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Old 2012-08-11, 01:29   Link #1560
galdr
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Having beach episodes this early is pretty stupid. I want more mecha fights or political drama.
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