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View Poll Results: Critique of Episode 06
10 out of 10: Near Perfect... 21 15.22%
9 out of 10 : Excellent... 28 20.29%
8 out of 10 : Very Good... 42 30.43%
7 out of 10 : Good... 24 17.39%
6 out of 10 : Average... 13 9.42%
5 out of 10 : Below Average... 4 2.90%
4 out of 10 : Poor... 3 2.17%
3 out of 10 : Bad... 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad... 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Torturous... 3 2.17%
Voters: 138. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-08-12, 01:08   Link #81
Guardian Enzo
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Yes, people who kill other people often have lame reasons for doing so. But that doesn't exempt those who write fiction about them from doing an adequate job of explaining them in the context of the story.
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Old 2012-08-12, 01:20   Link #82
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
Yes, people who kill other people often have lame reasons for doing so. But that doesn't exempt those who write fiction about them from doing an adequate job of explaining them in the context of the story.
The problem is that there realy are no good reasons for murder. In a way so is this story a bit too realistic in that most fiction try and be more sane then actual life with easier to understand motives. But most actual murders in real life have similar stupid motives as this.
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Old 2012-08-12, 03:01   Link #83
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Originally Posted by DXMichael View Post
I am really surprised however that Kirito let them live or escape. They showed no signs of changing their ways after being threatened and it was obvious they would continue. He's going to have the blood of other innocent players on his hand for doing that.
They're clearly stronger than him, at least when it's 3-on-1. Note that Kirito had to use a bluff about 30 players coming as reinforcements. Which obviously they never did. The tension of the scene when they're staring at each other's eyes is about whether or not the Laughing Coffin guy will call his bluff. Kirito simply can't take these guys on by himself. Maybe not even with Asuna's help.

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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Spoiler for Piecing together hints from Episode 6 (see explanation above):
That's quite perceptive of you. This is actually a side effect of how the stories were written though. The anime is showing it in chronological order, but most of them were written after the main plot had developed significantly. This story in particular was part of volume 8, which means it assumes you already know 7 more volumes of plot developments that are going to happen.

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Originally Posted by Znail View Post
The problem is that there realy are no good reasons for murder. In a way so is this story a bit too realistic in that most fiction try and be more sane then actual life with easier to understand motives. But most actual murders in real life have similar stupid motives as this.
I agree. I've studied criminal law, and obviously the textbook is filled with real cases. This is an entirely too plausible motive. Narratively though, the focus is more on Griselda than Grimrock. The game provided her an opportunity to grow as a person. It became "too real" for her, which frightened Grimrock. Ultimately, it's the same question the story asked at the beginning of episode 5. How real do you treat this artificial reality?
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Old 2012-08-12, 03:37   Link #84
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While Asuna has already proven that she isn't a damsel in distress (episode 2), there's no doubt that Kirito was the heavy-lifter in terms of solving the mystery and resolving the conflict for this arc. She really didn't contribute much and had to rely on his wits and knowledge. Also, it's Kirito who's raising all the romance flags by saying and doing all the right things, and not really the other way around (her cooking him food was really cute though). He's also the one who seems to be changing her mindset and the way she thinks about thinks, like enjoying life in virtual reality. Again, not the other way around.

It's obvious to us all that they're a couple, and especially after this episode we can assume that they will eventually get married. In order for me to really care about this pairing and think it's based on mutual respect and affection, rather than Asuna falling for Kirito because he's the protagonist, I'd like to see this change. What makes him fall for her? How does she impress and surprise him? More scenes showcasing Asuna's combat skills and abilities, and even surpassing Kirito in some respects would be nice. A balance, so to speak, is what I'll be keeping track of as the series continues.
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Old 2012-08-12, 04:02   Link #85
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Lawl.

This episode was so obvious in its Asuna x Kirito shipping development it was hilarious. Not that I hated it of course, I don't particularly have a stance on shipping . I mean all that "marraige talk" between the two and Asuna's tsundere's antics when Kirito was being a bit of a dumbass in asking whether Asuna been married before or not. And of course the "friending" at the end. I think it's pretty obvious at this point that Asuna x Kirito at some point are gonna get married. I'm beginning to see why LN readers squee with delight at this shipping pair .

Otherwise, I actually liked this ep. Side arc as it may, it converted the "mystery" focused episode from last week to what what was was some interesting commentary on the marriage and item sharing system. Also commentary on the whole "love" vs "lust/possessive" debate that's been going on forever since humankind decided to live in "pairs". I wonder if it's supposed to bring about a grander message than in the limited context of this MMO?

But all aside, can we please get to the main plot please? I'm kinda sick of side arcs...
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Old 2012-08-12, 04:08   Link #86
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But all aside, can we please get to the main plot please? I'm kinda sick of side arcs...
One more episode of side arcs I've heard, then we're back to the main plot.
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Old 2012-08-12, 04:27   Link #87
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(I mean as in behaviour, as a story idea, it's rather good)
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Old 2012-08-12, 04:36   Link #88
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Good episode.

Of course the guy's reason for killing his wife is lame. What, you actually expected him to have a good reason? Murderers usually don't have a good reason.
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Old 2012-08-12, 04:46   Link #89
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Originally Posted by PewPewK View Post
One more episode of side arcs I've heard, then we're back to the main plot.
We could easily label the first episodes as beginnings side story, meaning we would finally get to the main plot after one more side story.
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Old 2012-08-12, 04:50   Link #90
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To be fair to those criticizing why Grimlock killed his wife, I doubt they were looking for a rational explanation that would justify murder or make them go, "Oh, that makes sense". It's about context. Nothing justifies murder, but the motivation for wanting to take another person's life is meaningful; some reasons are stupider\unconvincing than others.

An example is how you hear news stories of some psycho indiscriminately murdering innocent people (i.e. the Aurora shooter). It's natural to be curious of their motive, but that doesn't mean there's ever going to be a good reason for the action. But there will definitely be different reactions based on the reason. If he killed for some crazy political ideology or movement, of course he'd still be condemned and called a psycho. But if he did it because his girlfriend broke up with him or he lost his dog...you get what I'm saying.
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Old 2012-08-12, 04:54   Link #91
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Old 2012-08-12, 04:54   Link #92
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Is it really any more rational to kill someone to take their stuff? Heck, with the shared inventory he already owned the ring. If she had managed to sell it he would still have the money. If he wanted money he could easily just drop the money on the ground, divorce her, and then pick it back up. If greed was his motive, killing her would make even less sense.
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Old 2012-08-12, 05:02   Link #93
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It's not like I said those had to be the only reasons. And again, it's not about trying to justify murder.
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Old 2012-08-12, 05:18   Link #94
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
Yes, people who kill other people often have lame reasons for doing so. But that doesn't exempt those who write fiction about them from doing an adequate job of explaining them in the context of the story.
What do you mean a good job explaining it? It was all plainly obvious to me that Grimlock was an oppressive husband who wanted his wife to stay subservient to him even in this game. When it was obvious she wasn't going to be that person anymore he lost it possibly got into an altercation with her and ended up killed her.
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Old 2012-08-12, 05:22   Link #95
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Eh. Men reacting badly when their wives threaten their masculinity by surpassing them is such a commonplace story. Both IRL and in fiction. Heck, don't some cultures have large aspects dedicated to keeping the women down and dependent of their husbands, and their fathers before that? With responses to women getting uppity going as far as rape, mutilation, or execution? So I don't see the problem with Grimlock's motive. It's crazy, but it's also human.

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Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako View Post
Guys who kill their wives generally don't have good reasons. I've seen enough true crime shows over the years to find "she didn't act the way I wanted," to be a sadly believable motive for murder -- and it doesn't matter whether you're in Japan or the USA.

But to understand what the story is about, you have to look at it from Griselda's perspective -- she was stuck in a stultifying life with an oppressive husband who expected her to be a subservient housewife. Her only escape was into the RPGs her husband let her play, where she could become an assertive warrior without drawing his ire. But then one day the game becomes real and her husband expects her to give up the role and revert back to her "real" self while she wants to continue "playing" the role of Griselda the Warrior.
They didn't have time to get into it in the anime, but...
Spoiler for novel version:

Last edited by Anh_Minh; 2012-08-12 at 06:46.
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Old 2012-08-12, 06:06   Link #96
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
Yes, people who kill other people often have lame reasons for doing so. But that doesn't exempt those who write fiction about them from doing an adequate job of explaining them in the context of the story.
Yeah this pretty much. It's not the actual motive itself that's the problem. It's the way it's presented.

Although I have to say it was only a minor issue for me and I enjoyed the episode overall. The mechanism designed to make it look like murder when it's not murder was imo pretty clever. And the Kirito and Asuna shipping was definitely nice too.
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Old 2012-08-12, 06:54   Link #97
Blaat
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The lack of subtlety in Kirito x Asuna is annoying the hell out of me. I wish the writers would stop using that sledgehammer.
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I agree with the notion that Kawahara may just be better at designing MMOs than writing about them. That's the difference between he and someone like Hosoda Mamoru, who's great at both.
I disagree that Hosoda Mamoru is great at both his MMO aspect (in Summer Wars at least) didn't felt like a real game, let alone something that I would like to play. SAO in that respect is the complete opposite. Hosoda and Kawahara need to team up and create something together. It would probably blow my mind away.
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Old 2012-08-12, 06:58   Link #98
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Mark me disappointed by the conclusion of this arc as well.
Grimlock's motive by itself is rather "normal" and not so "lame" considering IRL murders motivations are known to be "not so pragmatic" and even under the influence of deranged logic or even completely random.

What's rubbing me the wrong way here is how Grimlock was shown: for someone who was painted as a person who lost their love, a major emotional conviction would definitely shows up as he considered his wife was "no longer", so killing her while he "still can" is quite important.
However, I can't help but be disappointed how easily overwhelmed he was by a single line from Asuna.
To begin with, Grimlock is a typical man who believes no one would understand his motives and his love, so being called by a random woman and being wrecked by it is somewhat... poorly written if you ask me.
I wouldn't have such problem if Grimlock was rather in a chaotic state, not really understanding himself etc. But here, he was cold, calculating and "sane" in his own train of thoughts. That's why having that carthasis is really a letdown. If anything, I would expect him to initially play dumb about the case, then put arguments over arguments, until he starts going erratic (like putting the blame on SAO game designer etc) before being "countered" by Asuna. It was rather tame and way too succint.

I'm not really satisfied how things went after that as well: the way how Yolko etc carried him, along with that BGM: as if "everything is fine now" despite it isn't. Of course, it was definitely an attempt to have a case solved impression, but it is slightly off.

Either way, the rest of the episode was fine, with an appropriate exposure of the trick, as well as Kirito's reasoning.
I initially wondered why Yolko kept Asuna in her friend list (since if she removed the latter, it would be even less obvious to figure the fact she is alive), but considering she wanted to explain herself, I guess she expected them to figure out regardless.
I can't say I was blown away by Asuna x Kirito moments, because they are a tad too "obvious", mainly due to the marriage discussions being anything but subtle. But at least, they didn't make Asuna going all blush and all on him... yet.

A side note, but I liked the fact MMO details were used left and right. Of course, past the obvious item durability and all, it was actually something slightly different: that "immortal object". That definitely explain why players feel secure in town, considering it is a literal sanctuary that cannot be overwhelmed... well in theory. I just wonder what would happen if a special event (i.e. dragon invasion) along with a "building invincibility" revoked should occur... that could be interesting

That said, I'm quite surprised that the Laughing Coffin members were tagged orange, instead of being permanently red. Considering the implication of PK in SAO, I'm quite puzzled that the designer would use the usual "outlaw time duration" gimmick here. Even moreso when Kirito mentioned "red player" in Silica's episode and this one. Mistake perhaps?
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Old 2012-08-12, 07:04   Link #99
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
However, I can't help but be disappointed how easily overwhelmed he was by a single line from Asuna.
To begin with, Grimlock is a typical man who believes no one would understand his motives and his love, so being called by a random woman and being wrecked by it is somewhat... poorly written if you ask me.
I wouldn't have such problem if Grimlock was rather in a chaotic state, not really understanding himself etc. But here, he was cold, calculating and "sane" in his own train of thoughts. That's why having that carthasis is really a letdown.

I'm not really satisfied how things went after that as well: the way how Yolko etc carried him, along with that BGM: as if "everything is fine now" despite it isn't. Of course, it was definitely an attempt to have a case solved impression, but it is slightly off.
I agree that this part was absolutely terrible. I really can't imagine what the director was thinking.
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Old 2012-08-12, 07:05   Link #100
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
That said, I'm quite surprised that the Laughing Coffin members were tagged orange, instead of being permanently red. Considering the implication of PK in SAO, I'm quite puzzled that the designer would use the usual "outlaw time duration" gimmick here. Even moreso when Kirito mentioned "red player" in Silica's episode and this one. Mistake perhaps?
"red player/guild" are designations given out by the players themselves, not something that's actually in the game mechanic - there are only green and orange tag.
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