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View Poll Results: Hyouka - Episode 16 Rating
Perfect 10 12 19.35%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 26 41.94%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 20 32.26%
7 out of 10 : Good 4 6.45%
6 out of 10 : Average 0 0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 62. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-08-09, 11:53   Link #101
arkxkra
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very curious in Oreki's sister, why they need to make it so mystery to not show her face ...
lol at the "adult topic" and Eru expression after that

never thought this kanya festival will take so many episode...
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Old 2012-08-09, 12:15   Link #102
GalacticPulsar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craxuan
1) Houtarou acting rudely towards Chitanda. At first, it was just because he didn't want to get into trouble and thinks that it's a waste of time doing so. He also recognizes Chitanda as an element of change and will shake his life, causing ripples in his current stable life. He does not want that, and prefers to stay within his comfort zone.
Yet does Houtarou want to resist change in his life that badly? He mentions that he does want a "rosier" life. Is he going to have his emotional outburst when he reached his limit of being annoyed by Chitanda? Is he going to yell at Chitanda like he did with Irisu? He is able to express his emotions when he gets very irritated or upset.
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Old 2012-08-09, 12:31   Link #103
Craxuan
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Not sure what you want to say. Be more clear?
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Old 2012-08-09, 13:28   Link #104
GalacticPulsar
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Originally Posted by Craxuan View Post
Not sure what you want to say. Be more clear?
well i was just wondering how Oreki's character would be developed in the last few episodes of this show. Do you have any ideas? Is Oreki going to tell Chitanda off for ruining his life? Satoshi is aware of the effect Chitanda is having on Oreki (he actually states it at the end of ep 15?) but Oreki seems rather oblivious to the whole thing or at least he doesn't think too much of it. This arc will be resolved next episode and then there will be 4 more episodes to go before Hyouka ends. Are they going to focus on another mystery arc or go into fillers or purely dedicated to character development? Yes I know, I should probably ask this in the general Hyouka thread. I'm going to stop posting on this thread since I already made like 6 or 7 posts and I'm sounding very repetitive now.

Last edited by GalacticPulsar; 2012-08-09 at 13:47.
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Old 2012-08-09, 14:21   Link #105
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To be honest that entirely depends on the light novel itself lol. The branch is still open, the author could choose to never play on the character's development and end with that light but peaceful realization at the end of the entire story, or charge up a thunder ball and strike down on everyone of them.

Actually this Light Novel feels somehow related to that er, Read Mind Detective manga thing? It is absolutely possible that the author can choose to end the light novel in a tragedy with Oreki alone, suffering, regretting, but having to live on because of his choices. Or they could make it an endless mystery-themed high school happiness like right now until the inevitable breakdown in friendship and separation arrives. In short it's way too early for anyone to speculate how Hyouka will turn out, so it's better if you just watch and accept it.

This is one of those rare shows where the anime is much better than the light novel; I had thought that the script was written as an anime from the start. Pretty damn amazing alright.
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Old 2012-08-09, 20:16   Link #106
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Why all the suspense with Oreki's sister? Why they don't show her face, for crying out loud?!
I would love to see Oreki and Chitanda dating in the last episodes - they seem more and more aware of their feelings since, specially, episode 11.5 - Oreki isn't indifferent to her good looks and "pink" personality and she is more and more embarrassed by his observations for her. It makes me feel butterflies in my stomach :3
I am adoring Mayaka!

Anyway, Hyouka is one of the best anime shows I have ever seen: the art is breath taking, the characters reveal huge development, the story grabs us from beginning to ending... Love it!
And the last seen in this episode was so LOL!!

This episode is a 9/10 for me
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Old 2012-08-09, 23:58   Link #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senshigeia View Post
Why all the suspense with Oreki's sister? Why they don't show her face, for crying out loud?!
I would love to see Oreki and Chitanda dating in the last episodes - they seem more and more aware of their feelings since, specially, episode 11.5 - Oreki isn't indifferent to her good looks and "pink" personality and she is more and more embarrassed by his observations for her. It makes me feel butterflies in my stomach :3
I am adoring Mayaka!

Anyway, Hyouka is one of the best anime shows I have ever seen: the art is breath taking, the characters reveal huge development, the story grabs us from beginning to ending... Love it!
And the last seen in this episode was so LOL!!

This episode is a 9/10 for me
Why not show Tomoei's face? I think it's pretty simple. To abuse a tabletop gaming analogy, she's not a player character or an NPC. She's the Game Master. She sends Houtarou to the generic inn (the Classics Club,) where he assembles his party and gets quests. She helps move the story along by providing Houtarou with plot- significant artifacts (like the pen he gets that allows him to do the whole "Straw Millionaire" thing that lets him rescue Satoshi and the others in the cooking competition, and the plot-significant manga that clues him in to what's going on,) and occasionally provides him with side-quests to boost his XP. Since she's the chief agent of the plot (game,) she's not going to be seen like ordinary characters.
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Old 2012-08-10, 04:29   Link #108
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Why not show Tomoe’s face?

It looks like it’s my turn to guess the reason for this artistic decision by Kyo-Ani (I haven’t read the novels but I don’t think a tacitly obscured face is something that will show up in print).

I think it’s because Tomoe is the only recurring adult role in the entire series.

Due to the Noitamina time slot and plain broadcast economics, the target audience of the anime is significantly older than the original seinen demographic of the novels. The challenge this creates is how to make an older viewership give a damn about the travails of a bunch of high school kids. What may appear as a major crisis to a 15-16 year old is no big freakin deal to a twenty or thirty-something who holds down a job and pays the rent or mortgage each month. And as some have observed on this forum, the “mysteries” presented are in fact largely kid stuff.

Kyo-Ani's solution is to eliminate or minimize the roles of the grown-ups. The series is set in high school, but we hardly ever see the teachers. Whenever a grown-up appears, it’s usually a fleeting one-shot, and even if a particular grown-up’s role is extended, he or she is never shown performing the traditional child rearing adult roles of:

1. Providing basic needs that teenagers cannot yet provide for themselves, such as food or money;
2. Giving behavioral correction or guidance; and most importantly
3. Imposing discipline for unacceptable behavior.

This way, an older audience can see the world through the eyes of much younger characters without the condescension, objectivity and distance that usually results from the age gap. The results speak for themselves: Noitamina’s ratings are excellent, half the commenters on this thread are over 30 -ahem- and some of the latter even care deeply about whether Houtaro “likes” Chitanda (sings “and they call it puppy love…”).

Unfortunately, for a recurring character like Tomoe, the ordinary tricks will not work. There’s simply too much of her in the story. Hence, the creative solution is to obscure her face. This technique disembodies Tomoe’s voice and partially reduces her physical presence to an abstraction. As a result, when we see her patting her baby brother’s head and basically treating him like a child, the spell is not broken and the adult audience is not alienated from his adolescent character.

I suspect that when the development of Houtaro’s character reaches a respectable level of maturity, we will finally see Tomoe’s face speaking to him.

I could turn out to be way off, but my guess is as good as anybody else’s at this point.
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Old 2012-08-10, 05:28   Link #109
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GMT and joeboygo both offer good and interesting answers, but I'm going to take a slightly different stab at it.

The way Tomoe's face is consistently obstructed reminds me a lot of the character "Wilson" from the old TV sitcom "Home Improvement".




Wilson, in Home Improvement, typically served as a "voice of wisdom" that Tim would consistently get advice from when faced with difficult moral dilemmas or just tricky practical life problems. So I think that the idea behind obscuring Wilson's face was to emphasize this "larger than life" quality to Wilson and how he wasn't so much an active character in the show as he was like a mysterious sage who's there to guide Tim through difficult times in his life.

Much the same is true of Tomoe. Tomoe is there to help guide Houtarou through life, and get him to slowly but surely come out of his shell. She's not an active character in the show so much as she's a mysterious "larger than life" sage who's there to play a central role in Houtarou's character development.

Also, by not showing a character's face, the message becomes more important than the messenger. It ironically adds weight to Tomoe's words.
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Old 2012-08-11, 11:06   Link #110
Kiltias
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Thing with Tomoe is not being the voice of wisdom but being involved so deeply in the story.
Moreso than anyone else.

Knows Aikido.
Martial Arts Centre burned down during Sakitani Incident.

The same Sakitani who is missing in India.
The same country Tomoe was in.

Requested her brother to join the Classics Club.
Same club she was in.

Incidentally, in the same club is Chitanda the niece of Sakitani.

Naturally, she also gave the final hint to Houtarou regarding Sakitanis past.

Of course she is Hongou who also knows Irisu who on the other hand chatted with Chitanda.

Same Chitanda who said she has seen Tomoe before.

Incidentally, Classics Club got Tarot comparisons just like Irisu.
And Tomoe fits perfectly to the world which stands for:
Travel Abroad
Connections to abroad affairs.
But moreso:
The World represents a new beginning after the result of change per drastic circumstances.

Note that the Fortune Card is missing.
Stands for change of fortune outside of a persons control symbolizing the changes of fate and luck altering a persons life fitting perfectly to Houtarou.

She isn't a mere voice of wisdom but holds countless keys to the doors that represent this story but moreso she has alot of secrets that need to be revealed.
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Old 2012-08-11, 11:49   Link #111
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And... what does any of that have to do with the fact that her face is consistently obstructed?

Are you saying that her face is consistently obstructed to make her seem more omnipresent?


Also, what's wrong with being a "mere" voice of wisdom?
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Old 2012-08-11, 17:28   Link #112
FredFriendly
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Also, what's wrong with being a "mere" voice of wisdom?
I, for one, have no problem with her being a mere voice of wisdom. However, the half-obliterated face is just too annoying and, for me, just cheapens her worth. I personally found her more intriguing when she was not obscurely shown, but was communicating via the computer, letters, or telephone. Leaving only the upper portion of her face to my imagination is stupid and only makes me like her less. Leaving all of her to my visual imagination, where it can run wild without restraint, was very intriguing.
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Old 2012-08-11, 21:11   Link #113
Kiltias
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
And... what does any of that have to do with the fact that her face is consistently obstructed?

Are you saying that her face is consistently obstructed to make her seem more omnipresent?


Also, what's wrong with being a "mere" voice of wisdom?
Keeping it secretive due to being a important figure of the story that is more than likely the mastermind behind alot of things that happened as well as having her own secrets regarding Chitanda and Houtarou, thus only being revealed in the final when the answers become clear and her involvements,secret and knowledge being exposed, thus also the face of the mastermind and puppeteer behind so many events.

Tarot aspect is to further provide evidence into her involvements.

Elementary really, even my 9 year old Cousin understood this when I explained this to him.


Because she is obviously much more than that due to being involved in near everything that happened.
Even Houtarou got suspicious at one point.
"It's almost as if she....."
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Old 2012-08-12, 11:51   Link #114
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Who does this sound like?

"I said that he was my superior in observation and deduction. If the art of the detective began and ended in reasoning from an armchair, my xxxxxxx would be the greatest criminal agent that ever lived. But he has no ambition and no energy. He would not even go out of his way to verify his own solutions, and would rather be considered wrong than take the trouble to prove himself right. Again and again I have taken a problem to him, and have received an explanation which has afterwards proved to be the correct one. And yet he was absolutely incapable of working out the practical points which must be gone into before a case could be laid before a judge or jury."

You might think that this was Satoshi talking about Oreki. But you'd be wrong. It was the world's most renowned detective, Sherlock Holmes, talking about his older brother, Mycroft Holmes.

Satoshi is very much like Sherlock Holmes without the deductive reasoning capabilities. Energetic, very observant, able to categorize, prioritize and store data. He is very skilled at what he does. To say that anyone could do what he does is like saying that anyone could be a Sherlock Holmes (without the deductive reasoning capabilities).

Oreki is obviously more like Mycroft Holmes (less a couple hundred pounds; Mycroft was "absolutely corpulent"). Immensely capable of taking data, analyzing it, and coming up with a plausible hypothesis, yet also completely useless when it comes to gathering that data on his own.

I wouldn't be surprised if the author was actually thinking of Sherlock and Mycroft Holmes as the basis for the particular character traits of Satoshi and Oreki.
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Old 2012-08-12, 12:07   Link #115
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I actually think the author take a good detective (say Holmes) and break him down into all four of them actually. Houtarou get the analytic skill. Satoshi take the investigation. Eru is filled with the curiosity. And Mayaka possess the fair judgment.
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Old 2012-08-12, 12:15   Link #116
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I actually think the author take a good detective (say Holmes) and break him down into all four of them actually. Houtarou get the analytic skill. Satoshi take the investigation. Eru is filled with the curiosity. And Mayaka possess the fair judgment.
Good point. Not one of them would make a good detective on their own, but together, as a team, they do well. Some might say that, without Oreki, the rest are useless, but those three together could get more accomplished than Oreki by himself.
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Old 2012-08-12, 13:06   Link #117
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They're a lot more easily replaced than Houtarou, though. Except, maybe, as a motivator for Houtarou to move.
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Old 2012-08-12, 13:28   Link #118
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They're a lot more easily replaced than Houtarou, though. Except, maybe, as a motivator for Houtarou to move.
The abounding defense of, and reverence for Houtarou by various posters baffles me. He seems to be constantly being placed on the highest pedestal of praise, worshipped even, whereas the other three in the Classics Club are deemed useless and immaterial. To each their own.

Nonetheless, even someone with mediocre analytical skills (competent but less capable that Houtarou) could get more accomplished while working with the useless three than Houtarou could on his own.
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Old 2012-08-12, 13:50   Link #119
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I didn't say useless. I said "replaceable". McDonald's wouldn't be a successful fast food chain without its burger flippers, but they're not precisely hard to replace when one of them quits.

I'd also question what you mean by "accomplish". What does that even mean in this context? It's not like the Classics Club is an actual detective agency solving actual cases. And if all we've got are the cases we've been presented... If we take Houtarou out of the picture, what do we have?

No janitor case, and if there is, it's eventually dismissed as an indeterminate mistake. Or maybe they solve it eventually. It's not that hard.

The book: they never figure it out by deduction, but Satoshi hunts down one of the borrowers and ask.

Sekitani: they stay on one of the wrong deductions, they know it's wrong, Chitanda stays unsatisfied, but they never figure it out.

The movie: they never figure out anything, and just use one of the three bad solutions by default.

Of course, if we take those three out of the picture, then Houtarou never gives a rat's ass about any of those mysteries and does nothing. But what basis is that to claim superiority?
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Old 2012-08-12, 15:59   Link #120
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They're a lot more easily replaced than Houtarou, though. Except, maybe, as a motivator for Houtarou to move.
Arguably, from a mystery-solving standpoint, the least-replaceable of them is Chitanda. Houtarou's known Satoshi and Mayaka for years. Before Chitanda turns up, Satoshi and Mayaka both regard Houtarou as a bit of a sorry git. If there were no Chitanda, Satoshi and Mayaka, being mystery story buffs, would try to solve mysteries on their own and leave that useless git Houtarou to his own devices.

Certainly, Satoshi would make an excellent police detective. He tirelessly pounds ground, sets up stakeouts, and works shady characters for information. Mayaka seems able to fit pieces together, but she's a determined perfectionist, and for all her prickly snark, she's really quite shy. If Satoshi weren't so fabulously gay, I have no doubt they'd be able to achieve through brute-force detective work and hard-boiled gumption what Houtarou can through pulling thoughtfully on his bangs.

Now throw in Chitanda (and omit Houtarou.) Chitanda's chief mystery-solving skills are her incredible senses and her HYPNOTOAD skill. She can pick up on things that mere mortals can't. If we omit Houtarou from the mystery involving the school history book, Satoshi and Mayaka probably would've cracked the mystery once they identified what it was Chitanda was smelling. Likewise, if Chitanda didn't have a cold on the day they were trying to figure out where the Classics Club anthologies were archived, she'd have picked up on the newspaperman's smoking habit. Failing that, there is her way of motivating people by getting deep into their personal space and using her eyes on them.

So the addition of Chitanda would make Satoshi and Mayaka much more effective. Arguably, Chitanda is the only one who can really whip Houtarou out of his armchair. She's compelling in her curiosity, absolutely oblivious to snark, and non-threatening enough that she won't bruise Houtarou's fragile ego and send him screaming for his shell. You couldn't really replace Chitanda with, say, Irisu. Irisu would be able to use Houtarou for her ends once. The results would be spectacularly good, but Houtarou would make a hasty exit from the mystery business after that.

It is only because of Chitanda that Houtarou cares enough to shine. It is also probably because of Chitanda that Houtarou remains fastened to Satoshi and Mayaka. Satoshi and Houtarou are friends, but there's a touch of vitriol in it, and Satoshi doesn't necessarily view Houtarou in the best light. Mayaka harbors considerable animosity and skepticism toward Houtarou. Yet, because of Chitanda, they're all willingly part of the same club and part of the same social circle.
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