AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Hyouka

Notices

View Poll Results: Hyouka - Episode 17 Rating
Perfect 10 36 42.35%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 35 41.18%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 9 10.59%
7 out of 10 : Good 2 2.35%
6 out of 10 : Average 2 2.35%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 1.18%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 85. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2012-08-13, 06:31   Link #41
Qilin
Romanticist
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 23
I could feel the love and effort that went into music and cinematography that went into this episode. It's like the show really knows how to create a good ambiance. I mean, this show gets a lot of bile for the perceived triviality of its conflicts, but on the other hand, it could also be said that the show's ability to immerse its audience in the conflict, regardless of how trivial, is in itself impressive.

The story content itself was rich with juicy nuggets of characterization. Houtarou himself takes a backseat in this arc in favor of the other three main characters, so I wasn't all too fond of his exposition scene with Tanabe Jirou. But then again, I understand that the episode had tie up loose ends, so I guess it was inevitable.

What I particularly loved is the melancholic mood that dominated throughout the entire episode. I think this arc underscores something that is so often trivialized, but nevertheless remains a sad truth about life. That is, people are not born equal. In whatever field, there will always be some individuals who manage to stand above everyone else.

This episode portrays how different characters respond when faced with an overwhelming difference in ability. For example, Kouchi Ayako went as far as denying it through her outspoken views on manga. In contrast, Satoshi, while he acknowledged the disparity, tried to resist it by through sheer persistence. But in the end, there is nothing they can do but to accept it eventually. It a sense, you could call it something of a rite of passage for an individual to be integrated into society.

From that standpoint, I'd say that this arc was rather bittersweet, though a bit more to the bitter side of the spectrum.
__________________
Damaged Goods
"There’s an up higher than up, but at the very top, down is all there is."
Qilin is offline  
Old 2012-08-13, 07:25   Link #42
Craxuan
Crax
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: MY
What? That was some of the best reality I've seen portrayed in an anime. Most of the tragedy/sad stories were too heavy on the subject of sadness and pain, and totally forgot that happiness also has an equal weight. If anything this arc was sweet and true to both its characters and audience; there's nothing bitter about learning life's lessons.
__________________
Craxuan is online now  
Old 2012-08-13, 07:30   Link #43
Obelisk ze Tormentor
Black Steel Knight
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qilin View Post
It's like the show really knows how to create a good ambiance. I mean, this show gets a lot of bile for the perceived triviality of its conflicts, but on the other hand, it could also be said that the show's ability to immerse its audience in the conflict, regardless of how trivial, is in itself impressive.
Agree with you. I would rather see trivial matters executed well than big cases (like murder) executed poorly. Also, the trivial cases fits well with the highschool background of our “detective(s)”.

As for this episode, I don’t have anything more to say that’s not already better addressed by others. It’s just fun to see Irisu’s reaction that an honest & straightforward person like Chitanda said that her “persuasion” method is tiring after (trying) to use it for what? Two days? Now that must’ve hit Irisu’s conscience at least a bit if she’s smart enough to realize it.

So, it's 9/10 from me. A minus since it doesn't solve the bullying problem.
__________________
Obelisk ze Tormentor is offline  
Old 2012-08-13, 07:43   Link #44
blakstealth
Cinderella Gang or Die
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Aw man, I can't believe that this arc of "expectations" is over. Seems like Kaho didn't have a role in this...or did she. lol
__________________
blakstealth is offline  
Old 2012-08-13, 07:44   Link #45
Kanon
Kana Hanazawa ♥
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: France
Age: 27
Brilliant ending to a fantastic arc. It was definitely the best arc so far. Tons of amusing moments, an interesting mystery, and plenty of character development; what more could I ask for?

This arc really made me feel for Satoshi. I believe most of us can relate to him to some extent, we've all realized at some point that there are people we can never hope to match. It's frustrating and it may seem unfair, but that's how it is.
__________________
Mikan & Yami
Kanon is offline  
Old 2012-08-13, 07:48   Link #46
Qilin
Romanticist
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craxuan View Post
What? That was some of the best reality I've seen portrayed in an anime. Most of the tragedy/sad stories were too heavy on the subject of sadness and pain, and totally forgot that happiness also has an equal weight. If anything this arc was sweet and true to both its characters and audience; there's nothing bitter about learning life's lessons.
That's a fairly idealistic way of viewing things, though the fact of the matter is that not all of life's lessons are sweet. In fact, quite a lot of them are rather bitter. How about knowing that no matter how hard you work for something there will always be some one who can do it better? Is that not something to lament about?

Even more distressing is that most people can do nothing but accept it as "reality". The episode just leaves it at that, so it doesn't look to optimistic in that respect. But still, life goes on, and we continue to exist.
__________________
Damaged Goods
"There’s an up higher than up, but at the very top, down is all there is."
Qilin is offline  
Old 2012-08-13, 07:50   Link #47
rulfo
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
This arc really made me feel for Satoshi. I believe most of us can relate to him to some extent, we've all realized at some point that there are people we can never hope to match. It's frustrating and it may seem unfair, but that's how it is.
What I liked the most is how Satoshi took the short end of the stick. He took it like a sport which kinda confuses me then.

I wonder why the promo for the next arc depicted Satoshi in such a light.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Qilin View Post
That's a fairly idealistic way of viewing things, though the fact of the matter is that not all of life's lessons are sweet. In fact, quite a lot of them are rather bitter. How about knowing that no matter how hard you work for something there will always be some one who can do it better? Is that not something to lament about?

Even more distressing is that most people can do nothing but accept it as "reality".
If everyone is the best at everything we won't need each other. IMO that's how I took from Chitanda's message to Oreki on ep 11.5.

Last edited by rulfo; 2012-08-13 at 08:13.
rulfo is offline  
Old 2012-08-13, 07:57   Link #48
Triple_R
Center Attraction
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 33
Send a message via AIM to Triple_R
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qilin View Post
That's a fairly idealistic way of viewing things, though the fact of the matter is that not all of life's lessons are sweet. In fact, quite a lot of them are rather bitter. How about knowing that no matter how hard you work for something there will always be some one who can do it better? Is that not something to lament about?

Even more distressing is that most people can do nothing but accept it as "reality".
Actually, I think it's more idealistic to get heavily distressed over a life lesson like "There's no accounting for pure talent". If that heavily distresses a person, then such a person is probably being a bit too idealistic when it comes to egalitarianism.

Not everybody is going to be completely equal at everything. Personally, I'm glad that's true - The world would be a dull and boring place if everybody was equally talented at everything. There's "sweetness" in knowing that some people have breathtaking natural talent. There's joyful awe and wonder there, such as awe over Chitanda's hypno-eyes and wonder over Houtarou's deductive reasoning skills.

The bitter side of this bittersweet ending comes with the lesson that many talented people never fully utilize their talents, or even truly appreciate the talents that they have. And that's a real shame, especially when so many people would love to have such talents.

So the final takeaway from all of this, in context? Houtarou should develop his talents, and shouldn't let them go to waste. And hopefully Hyouka will show him maturing to a point where he truly embraces his talents, and puts them to consistent good use.
__________________
Triple_R is offline  
Old 2012-08-13, 08:12   Link #49
Obelisk ze Tormentor
Black Steel Knight
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
So the final takeaway from all of this, in context? Houtarou should develop his talents, and shouldn't let them go to waste. And hopefully Hyouka will show him maturing to a point where he truly embraces his talents, and puts them to consistent good use.
No more blackmailing then? Even if it's for the greater good? Seriously, he's like a Batman of the group. Playing the "left hand" numerous times.
__________________
Obelisk ze Tormentor is offline  
Old 2012-08-13, 08:13   Link #50
Shaggeh
Junior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Interesting way to end it, wonder if he will be able to ignore Chitanda's curiosity about who Juumoji is, or really ends up telling her everything. Probably wont know for sure but would have been nice to see her reaction to the blackmail if she was told xD.

Over all though best school festival I've ever seen in an anime, and a nice mystery as well, sad to see it end but I'm curious to how the next and probably the final arc will be
__________________
Shaggeh is offline  
Old 2012-08-13, 08:21   Link #51
MartianMage
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: outer space
This arc is all about people being jelly about more talented people...
__________________
Homura: Die monster! You don't belong in this world!
Kyubey: It was not by my hand that I am once again given flesh. I was called here by humans who wish to pay me tribute.
Homura: Tribute? You steal girls's souls, and make them your slaves!
Kyubey: Perhaps the same could be said of all religions.
Homura: Your words are as empty as your soul! Lolis ill-needs a savior such as you!
Kyubey: What is a loli? A miserable little pile of moe! But enough talk...have at you!
MartianMage is online now  
Old 2012-08-13, 08:21   Link #52
Qilin
Romanticist
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Actually, I think it's more idealistic to get heavily distressed over a life lesson like "There's no accounting for pure talent". If that heavily distresses a person, then such a person is probably being a bit too idealistic when it comes to egalitarianism.
Take note that the nature of society is fundamentally egalitarian. While individualism is tolerated to certain extents depending on the culture, collectivism still prevails as the dominant philosophy in most societies.

While I don't deny that the inequality that dominates society can be beneficial in certain aspects, the fact is that society, especially in capitalist cultures, is highly competitive. It's a cutthroat environment where individual differences can go a long way in determining one's place in society. Those who have the talent tend to rise while those who don't are left gazing upwards. This is the "reality" that exists in society today, one that each individual is powerless against.

Before anyone labels my views as pessimistic, I'm only expressing the idea in the way I felt the show wanted to portray it.
__________________
Damaged Goods
"There’s an up higher than up, but at the very top, down is all there is."
Qilin is offline  
Old 2012-08-13, 08:24   Link #53
whitecloud
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Hey hey....can anyone with a good photoshop skill give a nice reconstruction of her face....please....

just for a split second there you could almost see a full feature of her face...it's from episode 16...

whitecloud is offline  
Old 2012-08-13, 08:44   Link #54
Triple_R
Center Attraction
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 33
Send a message via AIM to Triple_R
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
No more blackmailing then? Even if it's for the greater good? Seriously, he's like a Batman of the group. Playing the "left hand" numerous times.
I would say that blackmailing is one of Houtarou's talents.

It's funny how the guy that got so upset with Irisu is proving to be very much like her...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Qilin View Post
Take note that the nature of society is fundamentally egalitarian.
I think that might be putting it a bit too strongly. Our legal system is fundamentally egalitarian, and that is indeed for the best. Equal before the law, equal rights, etc... that's all great. That helps ensures that a basic sense of fairness and respect for others permeates society, and makes us more likely to frown on things like cheating.

But you can take egalitarianism too far - It should be balanced with respect for individualism. Beyond that, there's the old saying of "Variety is the spice of life". And you can only have variety with differences, and you can't have differences if everybody is completely equal in every way.

Certain equalities should be insisted upon, such as legal equality. But certain inequalities gives society color and flavor. Without that, we wouldn't have wondrous spectacles like the Olympics. Great talent in the hands of a fortunate few often makes for great stories, as we see with Michael Phelps.


Quote:
While I don't deny that the inequality that dominates society can be beneficial in certain aspects, the fact is that society, especially in capitalist cultures, is highly competitive. It's a cutthroat environment where individual differences can go a long way in determining one's place in society. Those who have the talent tend to rise while those who don't are left gazing upwards. This is the "reality" that exists in society today, one that each individual is powerless against.

Before anyone labels my views as pessimistic, I'm only expressing the idea in the way I felt the show wanted to portray it.
No, I don't think what you wrote is pessimistic. It's just reality.

I don't see a problem in "gazing upwards" from time to time. It's nice to have heroes, in my opinion. And while it's even nicer to be a hero, that tends to bring added responsibility to it, so there is a cost to great talent. The more Houtarou uses his talent, the more he's forced to accept how a normal life may not be the one for him. A normal life is not without its charms - Speaking personally, I'm not sure I'd want the sort of pressure on my shoulders that Michael Phelps had to carry into the most recent Olympics.
__________________
Triple_R is offline  
Old 2012-08-13, 08:59   Link #55
Obelisk ze Tormentor
Black Steel Knight
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
It's funny how the guy that got so upset with Irisu is proving to be very much like her...
Well, a robber will be upset if his property got stolen.

Just like a robber and a thief. Oreki and Irisu use different methods. One uses blackmail and the other uses manipulative persuasion.
__________________
Obelisk ze Tormentor is offline  
Old 2012-08-13, 09:21   Link #56
blakstealth
Cinderella Gang or Die
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by hedvix View Post
I have been getting a vibe that Oreki's older sister (Tomoe Oreki) is actually Anjou Haruna. While we never get a clear specifications of her age, I can't help to think that she is somehow related to the "dream" team. I would imagine that Anjou Haruna could be some form of a "pen name" that a lot of writers like to use.

Here are some hints:
- Anjou Haruna was said to have "transferred off". Oreki's sister is currently living abroad in India.
- There was a scene of Oreki sister reading the school's newspaper (EP16) about to jumonji incident and said "naruhodo" (I see/I understand/I get it)... What does she understand?!?!?
- She happens to carry the manga "A corpse by evening" and gives it to Hotarou? and says the weird line afterwards "whether this staves off your boredom or not is up to you". To me it feels like as if she is giving Hotarou a hint to solve the Jumomji accident which is contained in the manga.
Interesting theory.

kininarimasu :0
__________________
blakstealth is offline  
Old 2012-08-13, 09:25   Link #57
Shadow5YA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyZone View Post
oh and what i noticed: The scene in the big hall where the president said "good work".... doesn't that imply that he did "get the message" after all? I mean when the culprit complained that the student council president did not figure it out, it was chronologicially before the ending speech for the festival.
No, the message was for Kugayama to figure out that Tanabe wants him to continue working on manga.

The "good work" implies nothing of the sort. It could be the typical formality to thank him as a fellow Executive Committee member, or even if Kugayama did find out Tanabe was the culprit, it doesn't mean he understands that he's being asked to work on another manga.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hedvix View Post
I have been getting a vibe that Oreki's older sister (Tomoe Oreki) is actually Anjou Haruna. While we never get a clear specifications of her age, I can't help to think that she is somehow related to the "dream" team. I would imagine that Anjou Haruna could be some form of a "pen name" that a lot of writers like to use.

Here are some hints:
- Anjou Haruna was said to have "transferred off". Oreki's sister is currently living abroad in India.
- There was a scene of Oreki sister reading the school's newspaper (EP16) about to jumonji incident and said "naruhodo" (I see/I understand/I get it)... What does she understand?!?!?
- She happens to carry the manga "A corpse by evening" and gives it to Hotarou? and says the weird line afterwards "whether this staves off your boredom or not is up to you". To me it feels like as if she is giving Hotarou a hint to solve the Jumomji accident which is contained in the manga.
No, because the people who worked on "A Corpse by Evening" were all in the same year. Kugayama and Tanabe are currently seniors. More than likely Anjou is also a high school senior. Oreki Tomoe has already graduated from high school. Also, Tomoe isn't really living abroad in just India - she's been travelling.

Tomoe only found out about the Juumonji incident and the message after she read the school newspaper. Understanding the message and having a copy of the manga does not prove she's related to the makers of the manga - Houtarou figured out the message, and Mayaka also had a copy of the manga even if she lost it somewhere. I do agree that Tomoe was giving Houtarou a big clue when she traded away a copy of the manga, but it does not prove that she helped make it.

Last edited by Shadow5YA; 2012-08-13 at 09:39.
Shadow5YA is offline  
Old 2012-08-13, 09:29   Link #58
Craxuan
Crax
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: MY
Note: Houtarou's 'blackmail' this time was more of a fair trade than a blackmail. Supposed that the chairman man up and let Houtarou announce the truth of the Jumonji Incident then his entire scheme would be rendered meaningless. Houtarou knows that and was actually on the toe for quite some time and actually gave some good conditions to the chairman. This was totally unlike the first blackmail where it was a complete one-sided threat and Houtarou completely uncaring for the smoker's feelings.

You could say that it is a sign that Houtarou grew up to consider people's feelings as he exerts his presence over the others.

And about the whole 'difference in talent' thing, I really never bothered about it quite much. It wasn't really something one should mull over too deeply. I'm good at writing, he's good at doing maths, she can draw, he can drive, she's good at fighting - once you really think about it, what is the point comparing your weakness against the another person's strength? Perhaps it's because the characters portrayed are very young, but it may have been slightly exaggerated in my opinion. We are unique the way we are. Even if I'm supposedly 'talentless' compared to him in let's say, deduction, there WILL be something along the same path that I can do better than the genius.

This is especially true when it comes to creation. 'A masterpiece is a masterpiece from the beginning', and adding behind this sentence, 'It does not matter from whom it is born from'. The most important thing is to recognize your own masterpiece and to be proud with it.

To put it in a sappy way, won't your talent feel sad that their own owner wouldn't recognize and acknowledge their biggest strength?
__________________
Craxuan is online now  
Old 2012-08-13, 09:33   Link #59
ookamigirl
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Juumoji vs Classics club.
Chitanda's hosting on a radio show really fired things up!
Well, at least their anthology was selling now.
Even they got hit in the end. There was no avoiding it.
All that didn't sidetrack Oreki one bit. That guy's a genius.
It's amazing how he figured out the real culprit = Tanabe.
Using him to dump the anthologies was brilliant too.
__________________
My new Blog --> ookami (anime, manga, movies, JDrama, music, Japan..) & latest reviews

ookamigirl is offline  
Old 2012-08-13, 09:45   Link #60
Qilin
Romanticist
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I think that might be putting it a bit too strongly. Our legal system is fundamentally egalitarian, and that is indeed for the best. Equal before the law, equal rights, etc... that's all great. That helps ensures that a basic sense of fairness and respect for others permeates society, and makes us more likely to frown on things like cheating.

But you can take egalitarianism too far - It should be balanced with respect for individualism. Beyond that, there's the old saying of "Variety is the spice of life". And you can only have variety with differences, and you can't have differences if everybody is completely equal in every way.

Certain equalities should be insisted upon, such as legal equality. But certain inequalities gives society color and flavor. Without that, we wouldn't have wondrous spectacles like the Olympics. Great talent in the hands of a fortunate few often makes for great stories, as we see with Michael Phelps.
Actually, I meant exactly what I said.

Wherever people gather together, a pressure to conform will naturally arise. As the gathering steadily becomes larger, the need for conformity grows stronger along with it. In time, this pressure will manifest into what are now called "cultural norms" and "tradition", possibly laws as well. Such is what I believe to be the birth of society as we know it, so I don't think it's too much to say that society is founded on principles of egalitarianism, but I digress.

I didn't mean to undermine the idea of individualism, but I honestly interpreted the show's take on the whole talent inequality thing as predominantly pessimistic, which was probably enhanced the melancholic feel of the entire episode.
__________________
Damaged Goods
"There’s an up higher than up, but at the very top, down is all there is."
Qilin is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 18:33.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.